AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Peter J on 4 May 2017, 12:34 am
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Seems I never stop thinking about speakers (must be some kind of sickness). I constantly have ideas rolling around in my head for designs. So rather than just think, I decided to let some of the nuttiness out...I can't help it!
I wanted to get off the beaten path some, (when didn't I, you're thinking), so this thread will detail those ideas and how they play out. My design platform is Danny's X-LS. I made four pairs to start and will see how that plays out before I build more.
First, I needed to figure out an efficient way to build a batch. One forever consideration is how to hide the seams. Butt joints are plenty strong, but unless veneering, the joints are hard to hide so I landed on rabbets. Figured I could either cover 'em up or land them in a rounded corner, where they're easier to conceal.
Off we go. Half the parts for eight
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161802)
Clamping in one shot
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161803)
Didn't want glue oozing all over, you'll see why. I let it get firm and remove with a special chisel when I unclamp
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161804)
Jig for drivers
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161806)
Can't have too many routers, right?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161807)
These things have a cross brace that's hard as hell to put in after assembly, so I fixed it
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161808)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161809)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161810)
First up I'll call The Natural. While I'm not a fan of machining MDF, I wondered about a way to celebrate it...
More rabbets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161811)
Glued in Walnut strips
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161812)
Once dry, cut some more
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161814)
And some more strips
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161815)
Trimmed 'em up
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161816)
Cut some bevels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161817)
After sealer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161818)
Before shooting conversion varnish topcoat, I wanted to tone them a little. I've wondered what it would be like to put bronzing powder in wood finish, so I dumped some in the toner. Kinda like pearl in automotive paint
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161819)
The effect is subtle, but it adds a little shimmer
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161820)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161821)
End result after top coats, which were dull sheen...the current fashion in much cabinetry and furniture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161822)
That's all for now, but my head's buzzing with ideas. I'll post them as I get more done.
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Looking good and keep 'em coming - can't wait to see what you come up with next 3 sets - inspirational! :thumb:
BK
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These look phenomenal, as usual, Peter.
Thanks for sharing.
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Peter, you are really starting to spoil us shooting all those pictures and posting them all at once. I can't stand waiting for the next picture so keep on spoiling :thumb:
Thank you and they look really great!
Greg
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Peter,
You obviously have a sick mind. I wish I were your neighbor. :lol:
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Encore or classics?
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Hi Peter, always a pleasure reviewing your builds and never fail to learn new tips, ideas and learnings.
Cut some bevels
What is your favorite technique for cutting these bevels -- chamfering bit on router table, or something else?
I like the walnut inlay corners and have seen you use this technique with prior builds.
Curious if you had any concerns with reduction of strength by cutting the tongues off the rabbets?
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Encore or classics?
Tweeter hole is cut for the Encore version.
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Looks great Peter!
So...since your'e building so many pairs, will there be any for sale or do you already have plans for them when they're done?
-Tom
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Hi Peter, always a pleasure reviewing your builds and never fail to learn new tips, ideas and learnings.
What is your favorite technique for cutting these bevels -- chamfering bit on router table, or something else?
I like the walnut inlay corners and have seen you use this technique with prior builds.
Curious if you had any concerns with reduction of strength by cutting the tongues off the rabbets?
Many ways to skin the bevel cat. In this case I tipped table saw blade to 45° into sacrificial fence and sliced them off. It's quick and efficient, but fence setup parallel to blade is kinda critical to minimize walnut missiles.
I don't think the structure would be compromised in the least with the rabbets cut in afterwards. If we were to subject them to destructive testing, I'd wager the glued in strips would actually enhance durability. Here's my reasoning: The rabbeted box construction adds something around 75% gluing area compared to a butt joint. Cutting the 3/8 x 3/8 inlay rabbet and you've added 3/4" of glued area and a hardwood structural element which is stronger than the MDF itself.
I'd be interested in squashing a cabinet in some force measuring device to prove the theory, but they're speaker cabinets after all and not holding up a house or being dropped from a cliff, so suffice to say, it's plenty strong either way. I dare say we could park a small car on them, but then one would have to ask "why?". It does pique my curiosity, but then lots of things do...
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Looks great Peter!
So...since your'e building so many pairs, will there be any for sale or do you already have plans for them when they're done?
-Tom
That's he nutty part, Tom. I have no need for more speakers other than my compulsion. I may try to foist a pair off on our grandson for a house warming gift, but other than that no plans to even build them out. PM me if interested.
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Great stuff as always Peter :thumb:
Most of the baffles we've been doing for various projects use rabbets as well, I really like them. Not only do they add the extra glue area, with the wedge" shaped speakers they really can aid in asembly.
Love the glued in strips with finished edges, I've seen you do similar in the past with various projects and have been meaning to do something along the same line at some point, just hasn't happened yet :(
Cool idea using the bronzing powder too, it looks great
jay
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Peter,
I don't know what caused it but I have the same illness as you.
Are you close to St. Louis?
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Cool project Peter! I too suffer from the speaker building bug. My son will be taking my V1s in the next few months, of course that will leave a void to fill with another speaker! :duh:
Best,
Ed
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Peter,
I don't know what caused it but I have the same illness as you.
Are you close to St. Louis?
Hmmm, I'm in Idaho which rules out some regional malady, eh? Seems somewhat rare but widespread geographically. Could be a deviant DNA thing. I wonder if it would show up in an Ancestry.com evaluation?
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While doing the X-Oticas, the primer I was using got me to thinkin' about doing a hot-rod black speaker which sorta led to this:
Meet the Hot Rods
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162544)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162545)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162546)
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Those are seriously cool. Where did you get the decals?
Mike
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Those are seriously cool. Where did you get the decals?
Mike
Well Mike, I just whipped out my sword brushes and went to it!
Maybe not...
This place:
https://www.twistedchrome.com/
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Peter,
Thanks.
When applying decals like that, at what point in topcoating do you put them on?
Mike
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Finishing schedule went like this, mostly ML Campbell stuff:
1. prime with black Clawlock
2. sand and fill imperfections
3. Clawlock, sand, Clawlock, sand
4. two wet coats conversion varnish (Kyrstal, dull sheen)
5. Sand flat
6. Krystal, sand, Krystal
7. After curing for 3 days I hit it with a DA sander and grey Scotchbrite.
8. Wiped with denatured alcohol and applied decals
They say you can spray over the decals on the Twisted Chrome site, but I didn't. If I were to clear over I think it'd be best to apply decals prior to last coats, but I'd experiment first. Trying to keep things simple on this one. FWIW, traditional painted pin striping is applied on top of final paint.
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Thanks
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I love Hot Rod Black, which is offered by quite a few companies. The stuff I went with is John Deere's Blitz Black, in a rattle can. It has a sheen less glossy than satin, but not quite as flat as matte.
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Has anyone ever tried (well, I'm sure someone has) making some kind of sandwich of MDF - like maybe MDF/Sheet Aluminum/MDF, and building speakers with that, or thin granite tile material sandwiched (i.e. www.lazygranite.com)?
If dead and stiff is the goal, wouldn't that achieve the goal better than MDF alone?
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A LONG time ago folks used to pour sand into sandwiches of MDF (i.e. between two layers). Stuff was very inert and dead sounding (minimal resonances) but it weighed a lot. Even bookshelf sized speakers were heavy.
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I can make it real easy for you guys exploring cabinet materials. Well braced MDF and No Rez.
http://gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx
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A LONG time ago folks used to pour sand into sandwiches of MDF (i.e. between two layers). Stuff was very inert and dead sounding (minimal resonances) but it weighed a lot. Even bookshelf sized speakers were heavy.
In the 1950's and 60's, some of the original WWII-generation speaker designers offered huge bass-reflex loudspeakers with built-in chambers for filling with sand, to damp the large, unbraced enclosure walls. Bozak was the best known of the type, but there were others. Danny Richie has designed a double-walled, sand-filled sub enclosure, the build plans for which are pictured in the details of the GR research 12" driver for sealed-enclosure use.
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I lke em Peter, very cool although, I was kind of disappointed you didn't just whip out the sword brushes :lol:
Looking forward to the next set !
jay
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Sand isn't that great. It doesn't even really do anything in a lot of applications, and in speaker walls it's one of those low returns for effort.
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Sand isn't that great. It doesn't even really do anything in a lot of applications, and in speaker walls it's one of those low returns for effort.
Actually it is really hard to transmit any kind of resonance through sand. It just dissipates into the sand rather than transmitting it. I'd have to say that in many applications it is an excellent return for the effort.
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But it sure is heavy :o
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Round three.
My vision was to have these look like photos I've seen of lava flows where it's black on the surface and the molten lava is visible through cracks. While not quite what my mind's eye saw, they still look pretty striking. These are all somewhat experimental anyway...
What shall we call these? Magmas? Cracked Up? Bad Trip? Y'all tell me...
Primed white so red would be bright as possible
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163381)
Then red...RF RED, you figure it out :wink:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163372)
Hard to see here, but I mixed some yellow pigment into red lacquer to move color more towards orange and shot the corners only fading into red field
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163373)
Then yellow and a touch of orange pigment in clear shot right at corner
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163374)
Black primer in Crackle Lacquer. First time I've used this stuff other than samples leading up to it. It's a little bizarre to watch thing unfold and the results are difficult to control
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163375)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163376)
The yellow didn't turn out quite like I wanted, looked more like a dying dandelion than lava. So I decided to tint clear lacquer to shift it toward red/orange to see if I could change it a little. Two coats of tinted made it mo betta. I'll let this dry for a day or so and give it a coat or two of clear. Close up better shows what they look like, wrong time of day to photograph and getting reflection that kinda washes things out.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163377)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163378)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163379)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163380)
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Awesome job. :thumb:
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Very cool!
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Man, you're good.
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Very cool Peter.
Best,
Ed
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And yet more fuel for the (slow burning) fire!
I never posted photos of completed speakers given to grandson.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198025)
And after staring at them and wondering about if for a long time, I figured I had nothing to loose by spraying over the decals on these. As is often the case with me, curiosity drove the train and I sprayed three additional coats of conversion varnish on them. Nibbed the decal between coats and am really pleased about results. I like these so much, I'm keeping them. Who knows, maybe I'll even build them out!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198026)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198027)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198028)
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Alway's impressive Peter :thumb:
I recall the start of this build and the talk of the decals, pretty col
jay
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Yet another X-LS chapter. This one about cutting out cabs on CNC router. Much talk on the forum about CNC these days, but I thought y'all might be interested in more detail on the process. Also, this old dog is getting his feet wet on YouTube video...wonders never cease!
Screenshot of cab parts drawn in V Carve Pro. White rectangle represents Sheet of MDF
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198048)
And another after "nesting". Nesting is about optimizing material use and minimizing machine movement.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198049)
This is a simulation after tool paths have be calculated. Tool paths or vectors are essentially the instructions the machine follows to accomplish desired tasks. Machine is nothing without software to direct it. A kinda new concept for an old analog guy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198050)
And finally my first use of a camera to record video other than by accident. Also my first YouTube video and speaker cabinet cutting on CNC. I muddled through, but am convinced there must be something better than HD Movie Maker PRO for processing video. It's partly me, I'm sure, but it sure seemed glitchy, and frustrating as a result. Critiques and recommendations appreciated. At this stage, I'm not looking for an all out assault, but rather a competent, easy to implement solution.
https://youtu.be/6vXcba7ED30
I edited this to make more watchable (I hope). Using a different video editor, ShotCut. I'll delete original so above link will be dead.
https://youtu.be/9qDnnBp_NQ8
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Very,very cool.
If you program the cutting of our kits so that you can whip out flat packs then I can send you a lot of business.
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Good video. Interesting.
Mike
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Link to assembly video for cabinets cut in earlier video. Let me know what you think.
https://youtu.be/5n3ZYGnEjgE
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Some fun and more video editing practice for me.
https://youtu.be/az5GBj2wNA4
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LOL, love the truck on the cabs Peter :).Just a note , if you want to improve your audio in the shop, try picking up a Blue Yeti Mic.... my niece does a lot of video editing etc and the mic made a massive improvement...... takes a little time to get it right but there are lots of videos available to help you get it done.
jay
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LOL, love the truck on the cabs Peter :).Just a note , if you want to improve your audio in the shop, try picking up a Blue Yeti Mic.... my niece does a lot of video editing etc and the mic made a massive improvement...... takes a little time to get it right but there are lots of videos available to help you get it done.
jay
I hear ya, Jay.
I'm leery because my camera has no facility for external mic, which I think would force me to sync an independent audio track with video track. One solution would be different camera with a shotgun or lapel mic. I'd be interested to know what your niece might recommend given the gear I have. I guess it's nothing that $$ wouldn't solve, but I'm kinda stingy that way. :wink:
The whole thing brings a new set of challenges, which I seem to be piling on right now. Just got back from a VCarve software workshop and head's still buzzing with all the possibilities I've yet to explore.
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Great video!
It reminds me of when some guy said my woofers frames were made from cheap plastic.
And I showed that the high strength polymer material is was not only non-resonant but stronger than stamped Steel or caste Aluminum.
(http://gr-research.com/images/tough1.jpg)
(http://gr-research.com/images/tough2.jpg)
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Great videos Peter!
As I recall, I once asked you about joint strength and you commented it would hold a car... and you now proved it with the P/U truck!
Well done as always!
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Great videos Peter!
As I recall, I once asked you about joint strength and you commented it would hold a car... and you now proved it with the P/U truck!
Well done as always!
+1 enjoyed the video.
Question, it looks like you are putting a Brace A going to the front baffle between the drivers. I'm curious about that as the plans don't call for a brace in that location.
Mike
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I did add that brace, Mike.
My reasoning is this: The front and bottom are the only panels not braced to adjacent panels. To best damp the bottom panel one could peel the foam off No Rez and still install crossover board. The front is the least ridgid and damped of all the panels because of driver cutouts, the weakest point being the area between drivers. So tying the sides to front in this area via brace adds stiffness to front panel and also entire structure. The Ranger Board MDF is also part of the same optimization plan. It's the most dense MDF I've found. Slightly more so than Medex, which is pretty darn dense.
And, of course, it adds truck supporting capability :o
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I did add that brace, Mike.
My reasoning is this: The front and bottom are the only panels not braced to adjacent panels. To best damp the bottom panel one could peel the foam off No Rez and still install crossover board. The front is the least ridgid and damped of all the panels because of driver cutouts, the weakest point being the area between drivers. So tying the sides to front in this area via brace adds stiffness to front panel and also entire structure. The Ranger Board MDF is also part of the same optimization plan. It's the most dense MDF I've found. Slightly more so than Medex, which is pretty darn dense.
And, of course, it adds truck supporting capability :o
:thumb:
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Actually, if I'm looking at the data sheets correctly, the Ranger Board is never denser than the Medex... they are very similar. I say "neverdenser" because the data sheet (if I'm looking at the correct one) shows that as thickenss increased, the Ranger Boards density decreases.. not really sure why that would be the case but...
For example, 9mm Ranger Baord seems to have a density of 769kg/cubic meter while while 23mm Ranger Board seems to have a density of 737kg/cubic meter
https://www.westfraser.com/sites/default/files/products/MDF/Ranger%20Premium%20Specs%202019.pdf
Medex only shows a single desity which seems to make more sense if press preasure and material quantity /cubic meter is consistant. It shos the same 769kg/cubic meter as the Ranger Boardhttps://www.roseburg.com/UserFiles/Library/Medex_TDS_052019.pdf
I personally like the mosisture resistance and stability of the Medex not to mention it doesn't seem to chip or dent/blemish nearly as easily as the MDF.
jay
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You know, Jay, after looking at the documentation, they are very close. I'm afraid I was relying on my supplier's word-of-mouth. They sell both.
It's also confusing as both call their products high density MDF, while some in the industry refer to the higher density boards as HDF.
It's been some years since I've used Medex. Next time I'm there, I'm going to get a sheet and compare. I'd definitely agree on surface hardness. After using high density stuff, the average board seems almost pithy. I use it as spoilboard material specifically for that reason.
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Yup, they do appear to be very close indeed, I was just a bit surprised after reading your poost and looked up the data sheets on each product.
We've used both but if I have the choice, I always go with the Medex but it is only available up to 1.25". When shipping flat packs , especially those with dados/rabbets to many different locations/regions with different humidity levels, I prefer the moisture resistance and stability of the Medex.
Anxious to hear your opinion afte you play with a sheet of the Medex :)
With regards to the video posts a bit further up the page.... my niece has a camera that is capable of live streaming via usb to her computer. She also has the Yeti connected and configured as the default audio imput device so that is how she imports her video.
If your camera is capable of live streaming and you have a laptop, you could easily setup a rig withthe camera, mic, and laptop to do your videos. Even some of the inexpensive web cams and a decent mic may be a big help..... gues it just depnds on how far you want to g with it. I'm I'm sure there are others here who can do a far better job of offering up some info on this, I know people can get s ome pretty good results with not a lot of expense in gear
We looked at doing some in past as well but honestly, it's just not my cup of tea... lost interest in it pretty quick.
jay
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Diving into Minutia, an MDF treatise (of sorts). Super-Nerd card required.
The following is my pseudo-scientific research into two premium MDF products. Ranger Board and Medex. My methodology is probably questionable and controls somewhat variable. Me and MDF and the tools at my disposal.
Before I start; Yes, I have a life. Yes, it may be hair-splitting. I’m curious to a fault and I indulge it…sue me.
Observations
Appearance:
Both look like MDF. I didn’t taste them. The Medex looks slightly more granular, but I might attribute that to differing color of particles. Whereas the Ranger Board looks finer and more homogenous in color. If forced to choose which looked more attractive, I’d have to give the nod to Medex. Its warm brownish tone ultimately more appealing than the yellowish pallor of Ranger Board. The Medex has a more prominent “grain” on surface. I assume from sanding at factory.
Cutting:
Both can be cut with conventional woodworking power tools. I didn’t try an adze or handsaw. Machining the Medex on CNC router produced larger, more defined chips with less apparent dust. Ranger Board was less chips and more dust. This would lead me to conclude that the Medex is more “plastic” by some margin. I attribute this to either the glue used, the actual wood in its make up or some combination of those. Ranger Board makes some claim about particular wood(s) involved in manufacturing, but I can’t be sure of the relevance to the real world, save the appearance.
Moisture resistance:
This required that I break out the “big gun” tools. A three gallon bucket and an inexpensive Chinese micrometer. I dunked the samples in tap water for 30 seconds, measuring thickness both before and after. I did let them dry before re-measuring while I mowed the lawn. No appreciable difference between the two. The differences in measurements could easily be attributed to ho-hum tools or methodology. The surfaces of both were slightly rougher to the touch after the dunking and drying.
Stability after machining:
I qualify “after machining” because both were (pretty darn) flat to begin with and held flat via some serious vacuum during machining. Thus I attribute the before to after cutting variance to some sort of internal stress relief. Perhaps supernatural in nature. While the Ranger Board remained mostly flat, the Medex showed some bowing on the more aggressively machined parts. Probably no concern in the speaker building realm as it could easily be removed when clamping assemblies.
Where does this leave us (me)?
Based on weight and dimension measurements and keen observation through my magnifying safety glasses, I would conclude that either is superior to mill run MDF in terms of speaker building. That density being the key ingredient to a few things: Holding a crisp edge when machining, resistance to impact damage and, of course, lack of sonic contribution. No clear winner here from my point of view in spite of manufacturers’ claims. They aim at slightly different markets with their hyperbole. Ranger Board guns for the cabinet door world, and Medex touts its moisture resistance. For intents and purposes in the speaker building world I’m not sure either has any real value. Their specification sheets seem to show some numbers that would give the nod to Medex. More is better, right? I just can’t say with any certainty that modulus of elasticity or internal bond strength is relevant in the speaker building arena.
For what it’s worth, I would and will use either with confidence.
Peter Rawlings SOPE-LMN
School of Hard Knocks magna cum laude
What they look like:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200073)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200074)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200077)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200078)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200079)
Sample weights:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200075)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200076)
Baffle weights
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200080)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200081)
Top/Bottom weights
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200082)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200083)
Back weights
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200084)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200085)
Thickness before dunk (BD)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200086)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200087)
Thickness after dunk (AD)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200088)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200089)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200090)
Flatness (not sharpness)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200091)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200092)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200093)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200094)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200095)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200096)
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Nicely done Peter :thumb: :thumb:
jay
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Color me very impressed, Peter.
I'd forgotten about Medex - even though it is manufactured just 120 miles (south) from my home.
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For those following along on my endeavor.
https://youtu.be/-qyLOjH3s5s
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Wow Peter, great job, every aspect first rate. I am very envious of your shop :green:.
Don’t be concerned over your illness, you are among friends, many who suffer likewise. :lol:
Best,
Ed
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I may be easily entertained, but pulling parts off CNC today I happened to be standing next to window. I was kinda taken by how this looks so I held it up to glass and shot photo. That's .005 thick MDF in the driver cutouts. Gets me to thinkin about making some lamp thing...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200800)
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Hey All,
I'm new to the forum, but I just wanted to give a shoutout to Peter for providing these flatpacks. I look forward to building these.
-Jon
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200873)
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Hiya Jon, welcome aboard the (maybe my) obsession train.
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that flat pack looks amazing. I wasn't even interested in the encore x-ls but the flat pack almost makes me want it
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Of course, everybody needs some spare gear around. You know...just in case there's a speaker emergency.
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Of course, everybody needs some spare gear around. You know...just in case there's a speaker emergency.
:green: :lol:
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Hiya Jon, welcome aboard the (maybe my) obsession train.
I boarded the hifi train many years ago. I never had time to build anything until now, hopefully this is the first project of many.
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A question was asked on YouTube about cabinet edge radius. Here's a graphic cross section of corner to illustrate how one could cut as large as 3/4" radius and still have full 3/4" thickness at corner thus maintaining cabinet wall thickness and integrity. A minimum of 3/8" is ideal. For reference the "Hot Rods" in this thread are 3/8", the "Magmas" 1/2". A 3/4" radius cutter is big honkin' thing. Probably best used in router table.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201600)
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Y'all might find it hard to believe, but sometimes my mind wanders to things outside of the speaker world.
These for my grandsons.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201781)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201782)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201783)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201784)
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joys of CNC router ownership hehe. won't be long til people start begging you to make custom wooden amp faceplates
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joys of CNC router ownership hehe. won't be long til people start begging you to make custom wooden amp faceplates
Indeed. I've been known to say, it's like having an auxiliary brain...
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joys of CNC router ownership hehe. won't be long til people start begging you to make custom wooden amp faceplates
If Peter is into doing them , I know he'd do a masterful job. If he's busy etc, there is this place :
https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/
I know there are folks on this board who have used them with good results
jay
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Hi all. I have a dilemma and wondering if you could give me your thoughts on how you'd like to digest a big video, assuming you want to at all!
Without really keeping tabs on it, I've shot about 2.7 hrs. of video on veneering a pair of X-LS cabs. I think I could cut that down by 35-40% with editing and speeding through redundancies of second cabinet, but that's still a whopper video. I could cut it in two, but would probably need to add a narration track and eliminate my rambling commentary, which I'm not looking forward too, mostly because I've never done it.
I'd appreciate your input. Huge video, do over, 2 or 3 installments? Something else? I'm kinda stumped...
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Hi all. I have a dilemma and wondering if you could give me your thoughts on how you'd like to digest a big video, assuming you want to at all!
Without really keeping tabs on it, I've shot about 2.7 hrs. of video on veneering a pair of X-LS cabs. I think I could cut that down by 35-40% with editing and speeding through redundancies of second cabinet, but that's still a whopper video. I could cut it in two, but would probably need to add a narration track and eliminate my rambling commentary, which I'm not looking forward too, mostly because I've never done it.
I'd appreciate your input. Huge video, do over, 2 or 3 installments? Something else? I'm kinda stumped...
Break it up! Narrate like a pro! Learn a new skill! ;) and use your best David Attenborough impression!
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Definitely split it up. Much easier to watch that way.. could just add necessary notes in the video description under the video
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Against advise, I just posted an epic video on veneering. And that was the short one!
Some hard lessons learned like replace all mic batteries every time, double check the mic is not muted(didn't even know that function existed until now). I was ready to move past this one...I'll rethink strategy in the future.
https://youtu.be/pb5KiJmIWII
Moving on I'll do an out-of-the-ordinary finishing video. Something like the sample in photo. Ignoring what it is, imagine that what's red in the photo could be some other color. What does you mind's eye see?
Speak up...really! I can't promise anything, but would love to entertain ideas.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202247)
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Indigo as the undertone could be striking.
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Peter:
Nice Job on the veneering video. Its always nice to see what technique others use. Love the heat lock glue it works very well great recommendation. :thumb:
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Peter:
Nice Job on the veneering video.
I'll +1 this.
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I watched the short version of the video.
Peter,
I noticed you only put one coat of glue on the veneer and cabinet. The directions say to apply two, which I have always done, but is has seemed like overkill and makes trimming more difficult.
Mike
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I watched the short version of the video.
Peter,
I noticed you only put one coat of glue on the veneer and cabinet. The directions say to apply two, which I have always done, but is has seemed like overkill and makes trimming more difficult.
Mike
I'm glad you lasted through the whole thing Mike, it's mighty long and I imagine all but the most tenacious leave the party early!
I double checked the instructions to see if I was way out of bounds. They're somewhat ambiguous and state "two or more coats of adhesive may need to be applied to the substrate if you use a paint brush or foam roller. However, a glue roller has a tendency to apply the adhesive a bit thicker".
I've also used two coats on the substrate,(which I interpret as the just the MDF), in the past and still might if surface was really porous, uneven or larger. In this case, the surface of Ranger MDF is really dense, smooth, dead flat and also relatively small. I judged a single coat was adequate by how it looked when applied and after drying. I don't have any reason to doubt the bond attained and assume the instructions are written in a cover-your-ass way.
I'm generally not an advocate of the "more is better" way of thinking, and in this case more just thickens the glue line to no advantage. Using the glue roller and applying fairly heavy coat would seem to address concerns.
Anyway, that's my seat-of-the-pants evaluation. Perhaps I should qualify in future video.
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Kudus on this video series Peter J!
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Peter, thanks for posting these, the veneering video went up just as I needed it and it's very helpful.
Jon
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Peter:
I agree with you Peter. I only use one coat of heat lock applied with a glue roller. Seems to work for me. Well I never had any veneer fall off yet. :lol:
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How exactly does one order a kit?
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How exactly does one order a kit?
You can contact me via PM here, or easier would be carbidewing@gmail.com
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I got the sanding video done. 1 hr. long :slap: Bring popcorn and drinks.
https://youtu.be/BGUbrfspO54
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Very good info Peter. Thanks for taking to time to share your knowledge with us.
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Hey Peter !!! When are the studio monitor flat packs coming ? I already built your xls packs and they were amazing. Now I’m getting the itch for the new ones
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Hmmmm yeah.. I could replace a Sonos speaker with a studio monitor that has a raspberry pi strapped to the back :icon_twisted:
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Nearly 3 years later, I actually fleshed these out with all the goodness Danny offers. Breaking in now in the shop, I suspect they'll end up in my office someday. After I remodel it, which is after I do DW's eBay room, then the backyard landscaping, then, then then... Suffice to say, it's a long list!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203845)
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Honey-Do :)
jay
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I'm in the running for longest YouTube video, so here's my latest entry:
https://youtu.be/dBKCewpH56A
If you want to save watching another loooong video, here's the end result.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204336)
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I'm in the running for longest YouTube video, so here's my latest entry:
https://youtu.be/dBKCewpH56A
If you want to save watching another loooong video, here's the end result.
I just watched the video. I thought you did a great job. I skipped through some parts, only because I'm not working on that type of thing now, but I will watch every second when I use them as guides if I attempt to do this. Thanks for making the looong videos; I don't think there's a better way to do it.
Also, I love the big rack of clamps in the background.
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I just watched the video. I thought you did a great job. I skipped through some parts, only because I'm not working on that type of thing now, but I will watch every second when I use them as guides if I attempt to do this. Thanks for making the looong videos; I don't think there's a better way to do it.
Also, I love the big rack of clamps in the background.
I'm resisting saying some coarse about big racks. I'm a little surprised someone hasn't mentioned "CLAMPMOTO" before.
I invariably start with visions of shorter videos, but, well, what can I say...
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Hi Peter, I just sent you an email about a flatpack. If you have them available, I'm going to order the Kit from Danny (I have no woodworking skills) :D Super Excited
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Quick list for other seeking 1/4 in. shaft router bits....
Round-over for corner radius:
WHITESIDE PART # 2004, 2104
1/2” R, Dia.1-1/2”, 3/4 in cutting, 1/4 in. shaft
Flush trimming veneer inside tweeter:
Amana Tool 51204 SC
Short/Flat Pilot for Dado Clean Out & Dado Cleaning Flush Trim 1/4 D x 1/4 CH x 1/4 SHK x 1-1/2 Inch Long Single Flute Router Bit
Flush trimming cabinets Removing glue :
WHITESIDE RFTD2100
1/4 in. down spiral flush trimming bit
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Quick list for other seeking 1/4 in. shaft router bits....
Round-over for corner radius:
WHITESIDE PART # 2004, 2104
1/2” R, Dia.1-1/2”, 3/4 in cutting, 1/4 in. shaft
Flush trimming veneer inside tweeter:
Amana Tool 51204 SC
Short/Flat Pilot for Dado Clean Out & Dado Cleaning Flush Trim 1/4 D x 1/4 CH x 1/4 SHK x 1-1/2 Inch Long Single Flute Router Bit
Flush trimming cabinets Removing glue :
WHITESIDE RFTD2100
1/4 in. down spiral flush trimming bit
Thanks for compiling that. Between me not really having a vision of how this thread would evolve nor YouTube experience in general, pertinent info is scattered here and there. If I could go back and change, I might, because it's become a huge volume to take in.
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Deleted
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Peter your work is amazing and inspirational. I am wondering if I have missed it but I am looking for some images of the crossover layout and wiring? I have the kit and the schematic, but for this noob, that is not very helpful. I watched Danny's video on crossover builds, particularly the one where he built the Klipsch RP600 M ones from scratch.
But the X-LS Encore schematic is very different. Not only more parts but very different circuits, I think. I got no clue on the wiring for it. My kit is pretty lean on instructions. Is there a resource or thread I have not seen yet that is more tailored to the x-ls Encore crossover assembly and wiring? and While I am begging for your experienced guidance, is there a template to cut the no rez for the box?
Scott
I'm not Peter but here are some pics of how I did mine:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206641)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206642)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206643)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206644)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206645)
Mike
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Deleted
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And there you have it. Far more than I could have provided...thanks Mike.
I've thought about a template for NoRez, it's on my list, but well, it's on my list. FWIW, it doesn't have to be pretty. You do want to press hard when installing for PSA to get a good bond.
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Funny story. I was just beginning to cut a file on CNC yesterday, when I felt a little shaking. Now, mind you, I've had this machine shake the floor slab before (once when I crashed it) so that was my immediate thought. As I'm peering at the moving spindle trying t assess the cause, the feeling of lateral movement under my feet became much more intense. I think my heart skipped a beat or two prior to realizing that we were having an earthquake!
Only the second one in my memory, last one 36 years ago, but it's never-the-less a really disconcerting feeling. So odd having a 6" slab start to feel like Jello underfoot while brain is trying to connect unconnected events.
Machine handled it mo' betta than me. I was nearly certain it would be a do-over, but as a stack of 5 gallon buckets toppled and added to my momentary confusion, it just kept on cutting.
That means that the next couple of X-LS kits shipped will have the distinction of being cut during a rare Idaho earthquake. I imagine they should sound even better as a result...
https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/natural-disasters/490565-largest-earthquake-in-decades-strikes-idaho
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Some folks felt it hear as well man
jay
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You've joined the club. I thought we had a lot of quakes when I was stationed in California but Oklahoma now has more. On the up side, most of them here are baby quakes. It's more of a queasy feeling in the pit of your stomach than anything else, though we did a big one a couple years back that I heard coming toward the house before it hit.
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That means that the next couple of X-LS kits shipped will have the distinction of being cut during a rare Idaho earthquake. I imagine they should sound even better as a result...
https://thehill.com/changing-america/resilience/natural-disasters/490565-largest-earthquake-in-decades-strikes-idaho
Improved low end frequencies in these? :lol:
Glad you're safe, Peter.
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Yet more finishing adventures. I broke my own rules concerning testing first and thought y'all might like to see that. It's a long experiment, failure footage starts at 1:29 if that's of interest.
https://youtu.be/QwkxRktaji8
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Thanks for sharing Peter. I always love to see how others are doing things. I never really thought about using a spray bomb first and then top coating to get that ebonized oak look. My go to has always been Speedball india ink. Its as black as can be.
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Thanks for sharing Peter. I always love to see how others are doing things. I never really thought about using a spray bomb first and then top coating to get that ebonized oak look. My go to has always been Speedball india ink. Its as black as can be.
Speedball is how I do it too. I buy it by the quart at an art supply store.
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Thanks for sharing Peter. I always love to see how others are doing things. I never really thought about using a spray bomb first and then top coating to get that ebonized oak look. My go to has always been Speedball india ink. Its as black as can be.
Had I known where I would end up, I would've chosen a different route. I took the long way 'round, for sure. In all honesty, it would have been easier to just bomb can the clear. I'm not sure who my audience is on this trip and I'm trying to keep to easy-to-apply finish methods.
I've used dye, but never ink. Does it play well with solvent finishes?
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I "REALLY LOVE" the red snakeskin look it sets the speakers apart and makes them personal.
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Speedball India Ink is water based. I have always used Target coatings water based products with it. Otherwise I would be spraying a coat of Seal Coat first and then an oil based product.
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:D :D Liked the dowel brace socket idea.
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I completed my Encore build today. Mine was slightly different from most you may have read about.
I started with a pair of old avast AV123 X-LS's. Cost was $50.00 plus $35 shipping. The speakers were in good physical condition with Grills in place. I gutted the speakers (saving the woofers) and removed the rag wool-like interior padding. The material was glued on liberally. It took a fair amount of time to scrape it clean. The Av123 X-LS box is well braced. There are four interior corner braces and two square cross braces. I Ordered the upgrade kits with sonic caps and mills resistors and no-Rez. The No-Rez was a full sheet and I used nearly all of it. The most challenging part was getting the no-Rez securely attached in the top and all around the port. Between the cross braces and the size of the existing holes, my big mitts were a tough fit. But with patience and fortitude I labored on. I did not put any on the bottom as I wanted a secure attachment for the cross-over. It is a pretty tight fit for the board width with the No-Rez in place.
Since I already had the woofers, I saved a bit $ on the kits. I used the original Torx T15 screws on the drivers and post cup. I had to use a router to reshape the tweeter cut out. The old tweeter had the connects on the sides and the Encore tweeter, T26SG, has the connections on the bottom, so additional room was needed. Once that mod was made, the new tweeters fits exactly into the recess for the old tweeters.
On the crossover, I got some great guidance here from MLundy and some photos examples. His crossover was laid out differently from Danny's but I was able to work it out. I have to admit, It caused anxiety. I used some project board from Menards ($3.50) that I cut down to size. I got a hot glue gun but ultimately decided not to use it. Rather than duratex, after cutting and drilling my boards I sealed the boards with Spray on Flex Seal. I Followed Danny's guide on how to attached them to the boards with Twist ties and then I soldered the connections. Smooth Sailing. I was nervous about the wiring and running out of Wire as one of the negative lines runs the length of the project, from source to Tweeter. I did not have much Black wire left over at all. I completely used all my shrink wrap and had to use some white on a positive line. I must have watched Danny's video #3 on the Klipsch upgrade four or five times for the cross over and wiring. The Klipsch circuit is different from the Encore but it is close enough that one gets a very good idea on how to wire and then solder all the connections. I found I need a third hand in the soldering process. Fortunately I have a helpful and patient daughter, who literally, lent a hand. Plugged them in with Banana plugs (just cant take the leap on the tube connectors) and slowly applied volume. Good sound from the start. I am looking forward to getting them broken in. I am not sure what to expect there. Tweeters and polycaps are what imagine will take some time.
So: special thanks to Danny for working with me over a fairly long time on getting me the kit. Thanks for Peter for demonstrating to me that I am not made to do wood working. Thanks to MLundy for guidance and photos. Thanks to my friend who loaned me his saw, router, and heat gun. I only burned my finger tips twice with the soldering iron. Fortunately, the house did not catch fire when I dropped it. Ideas I wish I had used: Ron B used a scrap piece of synthetic flooring for his crossover board. I like that because it is strong and fairly light weight. I wish I offered to pay Danny extra $ for a foot more of negative wiring. I wish I had a better soldering iron. Good luck to anyone thinking about the kits. The experience was positive and the confidence it gives me is pleasing.
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got any pictures of the process? or hte project board from menards? always curious what people mount crossover components to. did you make it removeable?
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That's kind of a cool , retrofit way of doing it :thumb:
You must have got the Encore tweeters with the Classic tweeter flange/plate from Danny, I used a pair of those a few years back for some cabinets I had done for a pair of Classic XLS, they are handy and make upgrading the Clasic version easy. ' .
Enjoy your new speakers !
jay
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project boards at www.midwestproducts.com
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got any pictures of the process? or hte project board from menards? always curious what people mount crossover components to. did you make it removeable?
I usually use 3/8" Baltic or Finish Birch plywood for mine.
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3/8" Medex with a 1/4"-3/8" layer of sorbathane attached to bottom with spray adhesive. Works great.
Paint the boards black or roll out in Duratex, glue the sorbathane on and trim with a razor.
2nd pic , post 249
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159096.240
jay
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If the boards are going to be mounted on the speaker and seen like Jay's pic of the Super 7 crossover, I use 3/8" solid hardwood that complements the speaker.
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Hi everyone! I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone here, I just finished building my pair of X-LS Encores this weekend. I really appreciate all the info and everyone sharing your build images. I was originally reading this thread out of curiosity, not thinking that I'd actually be able to build a pair since I had minimal woodworking skills. But after reading all the posts and seeing the fantastic builds, you guys were doing, it really encouraged me to take the plunge. Happy to report that I'm so glad that I did. Even though I really struggled with the gloss finish on the cabinets.
Thanks, Danny, for the kit and Peter for the flat pack. I don't think I would've attempted the build without the flatpack. I've had so much fun the last few weekends, it was a much-needed escape in the recent weeks. Been loving how they sound and been enjoying the music, and I'm still burning them in, I can't wait to see how they sound in a week.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208025)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208026)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208024)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208023)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208022)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208021)
Video recorded with my cellphone, they sound much better in person ;)
https://youtu.be/Fw_kGVn3pKc (https://youtu.be/Fw_kGVn3pKc)
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that gloss finish looks great to me. Much nicer than rolled on duratex :)
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People can't believe how good these speakers sound. Then when they get the chance to hear them, they really can't believe how good they sound. Gloss black can be a PITA but you did a great job with these.
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People can't believe how good these speakers sound. Then when they get the chance to hear them, they really can't believe how good they sound. Gloss black can be a PITA but you did a great job with these.
Thanks, Mike! Indeed they sound amazing and thanks for sharing your cross over images btw, just what I needed!
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Great job on your first project! Thanks for sharing :D.
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Thanks, Mike! Indeed they sound amazing and thanks for sharing your cross over images btw, just what I needed!
Oh, by the way, you're hooked now. That's the same speaker I started with six or seven years ago. There is no vaccine for this bug. Don't fight it, just go with the flow... :thumb:
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Oh, by the way, you're hooked now. That's the same speaker I started with six or seven years ago. There is no vaccine for this bug. Don't fight it, just go with the flow... :thumb:
Haha, so true!!! I'm very aware that I have been bitten! Luckily, there's lots for me to learn between builds, hopefully between that and saving up, it will slow this disease from onsetting too quickly :lol:
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Looks like they turned out really well, Kenneth. Thanks for posting the progress pics, I'm sure it's encouraging for others who want to give it a go. Happy listening!
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Nice job Kenneth !! I agree with Mike, you're in trouble LOL
Enjoy the tunes man
jay
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X-LS Encore hi-pass question:
To relieve the X-LS speakers (and the Dynaco ST-70) of having to deal with all the low freq energy, I will try an in-line high pass filter. My powered sub says it will go to 120hz.
Question: 100hz or 70hz?
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I would go with the one that you like more.
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The decision may come down to cap availability. I recently bought caps for an inline filter to work with power amps that have an input impedance of 100k Ohms. There were only two sizes that would work with my NX-Utica MTMs. One would put the -3dB point at 159Hz and the other at 79Hz.
Once you know the input impedance of your power amp, you can find out what sizes the caps you want to use are available in, determine where those sizes will put the -3 point, then decide.
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Clarifying question on the X-LS: Is one sheet of No Rez enough for the pair?
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Clarifying question on the X-LS: Is one sheet of No Rez enough for the pair?
Yes.
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I love it when folks send or post their "completed" photos. These from Casey, in oiled walnut. They look groovy with that console...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209262)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209263)
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Those look great!!
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Those look awesome, love the walnut too! Its definitely the look I'm going for when it comes time to build my Studios.
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Man, those do look really good.
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I've had many queries about NoRez installation. Surprising to me, several have suggested, and some have installed, before cabinet assembly. Interestingly, when I showed this illustration to my wife to gauge if it actually accomplished what I was intending, she suggested just that...installing before assembly. I'll leave that to builder to decide, I guess.
Anyway, my intention is to make a video about NoRez installation in general using X-LS mules I have. Here's my question to y'all. If you were to look at this illustration and an associated dimensional drawings, would it make sense to you? I really want to clear things up on what appears to be murky to some.
Feedback solicited...that's where y'all come in.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209724)
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Peter, I pre-installed the NoRez in the pair I built from your flat pack. Seemed like the easier way to me. Your illustration would be very helpful to those who would like to pre-install it.
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Here are some project pics of the X-LS Encore project I started this month to give to my son for his high school graduation. Thanks to Danny and Peter for supplying the speaker kit and the Flat-pack!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209748)
Glued and clamped
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209749)
Primed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209750)
Painted backs with a dark gray hammered effect spray paint
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209751)
Crackled effect inspired by Peter's build for his grandson. I used Montana Black Crackle spray over red Rust-Oleum enamel.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209752)
Finished with Krylon Clear Gloss Lacquer spray
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209753)
Danny's basic X-LS cross-over
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209754)
Cross-over inserted in the box
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209755)
Sorry, Danny, I used polyfill for this build
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209756)
Finished speaker one
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209757)
Finished speaker two
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209758)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209759)
Back of speaker
Overall I'm very pleased with the finished results and so is my son! We just got them hooked up to a Denon AVR today and both love the sound so far. Since this was my first real serious DIY speaker project there were some learning experiences but nothing too bad and happy with going the DIY route. Both speakers look and sound fantastic!!
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Feedback solicited
Makes good sense Peter. And a comment regarding the front baffle would avoid follow-up questions.
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Very nice, my flat pack should be here today, not sure which way to go gathering ideas.
Reese
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Amount of NoRez? , I only ordered 1 sheet for XLS
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Amount of NoRez? , I only ordered 1 sheet for XLS
One sheet is enough and welcome to AC.
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Just finished my first speaker build. I’m hooked. Already thinking about what to build next. For my first build I chose the X-LS Encore. Peter’s flat pack and you tube videos were a huge benefit for me. Thanks to Peter, Danny, and the others here on the forum for the guidance and inspiration.
David
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209873)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209874)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209875)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209876)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209877)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209878)
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You knocked it out of the park, Thor. Those look great.
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I just want to document my fail in my first attempt at the "Gamers Neon Crackle finish" My son is a 17-year-old gamer and wanted to create something fitting but it was a complete disaster! :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209885)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209886)
There is learning curve to build and finish DIY speakers! Some attempts don't work out and need to be sanded off. :duh:
But now we are all happy with the red and black crackle finish of the second attempt.
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This is also my first build... had lot of fun and help from Danny.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209900)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209901)
Tony
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Quick question, I assume the no-rez gets installed on the side walls and top. Do you also install on the front and back walls, trimming around the drivers, port, etc. or is that overkill? Hard to see clear pic's. Thanks.
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I put it everywhere except the front baffle. On the bottom I remove the foam layer wher the crossover goes.
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Thanks!!
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I'm kinda tardy getting this done, hopefully it all ties together in an easy-to-digest kind of way. Yet another long go at a YouTube video. I've come to figure out that short, concise videos are just beyond me...maybe someday.
NoRez installation video: https://youtu.be/CtIe9XFNdVQ
Drawings downloadable from Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/10T-77xKUE3ZV-HJl_3F8yr0rHH77df4x?usp=sharing
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Hope this is OK to post this here...
Who here as has added No Res to the stock retail X-LS Classic cabinets?? I need help confirming something.
Please PM me... Thanks!
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:thumb: Nicely Done. I can't wait to watch the video.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210743)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210744)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210745)
About to wrap these up and want to triple check my crossovers before I solder to my drivers and tube connectors. Does this all look correct? Thanks
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Looks good.
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Hi,
Is it a bad idea changing the dimensions of the enclosure while still keeping the same internal volume?
The reason for my question is that I want these speakers.
Someone who doesn't is my SO as she doesn't find the typical speaker box shape aesthetically pleasing enough.
What I'm thinking is if it's ok to make them not as deep, but wider/taller and put them close to the wall.
Other solutions which you think could be worth looking into is also appreciated!
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Hi,
Is it a bad idea changing the dimensions of the enclosure while still keeping the same internal volume?
The reason for my question is that I want these speakers.
Someone who doesn't is my SO as she doesn't find the typical speaker box shape aesthetically pleasing enough.
What I'm thinking is if it's ok to make them not as deep, but wider/taller and put them close to the wall.
Other solutions which you think could be worth looking into is also appreciated!
What you want to avoid is making them a square shape. You want the width to be between 1/2 and 2/3rds of the depth.
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Hi All,
I am working on my first build, thanks for all the help I found on this forum. I wanted to share a picture of a spray painting hack I just had kicking around that saved me having to build something. An iron hanging plant holder that spikes into the ground. I have a rock on top as an added precaution that it does not tip over but in fact the spikes are long enough to hold the weight of the speaker. Works great and I can hit the entire box without having to set it on anything. Here's a picture of the priming phase.
Happy building and listening.
(cannot figure out how to rotate the picture, sorry.....)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212505)
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Thanks for posting, y'all!
I reoriented photos because...well, just because.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212508)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212509)
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I love your build videos on YouTube. Thank you so much.
I just ordered my flatpack for you yesterday and am getting ready to put everything together. In your assembly videos you use clamps. I don't have any clamps that are that big. I see that you used masking tape in these assembly pictures.
Can you compare and contrast the results using tape vs. clamps?
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Hey thanks Peter,
New question: The new batch of tube connectors either are larger than the old ones or the holes in my cabinet backs are too small. Any idea what size? I have only a 3/8 inch bit which is smaller than the existing hole, and a 1/2 inch spade bit which looks too big. I have to go buy a bit to expand the hole so wonder which is best. 7/16? Thanks for help.
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I love your build videos on YouTube. Thank you so much.
I just ordered my flatpack for you yesterday and am getting ready to put everything together. In your assembly videos you use clamps. I don't have any clamps that are that big. I see that you used masking tape in these assembly pictures.
Can you compare and contrast the results using tape vs. clamps?
My assumption when I designed this was that you'd have clamps, a router with flush trimming and likely a profile cutter. Using tape would be an exercise in frustration, I'm sure. Just not enough clamping pressure to get the job done. The top and bottom are sized to be a snug fit...you'll see when you get the flat pack. Do it the way I show in video and you're golden.
Dry assemble, dry assemble, dry assemble. Don't forget to dry assemble and have a game plan. The markings you'll see on various parts are there for a reason...
Beg, borrow, purchase clamps and be a happy speaker builder. The masking tape you saw in photos was to glue corner pieces in. Cabinet was assembled at that point. There is a place for masking tape in the glue up world, but this ain't it!
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Hey thanks Peter,
New question: The new batch of tube connectors either are larger than the old ones or the holes in my cabinet backs are too small. Any idea what size? I have only a 3/8 inch bit which is smaller than the existing hole, and a 1/2 inch spade bit which looks too big. I have to go buy a bit to expand the hole so wonder which is best. 7/16? Thanks for help.
Crap! I don't have a new one here to measure, the old ones fit perfectly. I did mic an old one and the largest diameter (rib) is .436-.438. Does someone have a micrometer they can measure a new one with?
I have used a 1/2" reamer to remove few thousands when I've had finish build up in the hole. I think that'd be your best bet. The 1/2 spade will surely bring you grief.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212894)
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I thought I remember hearing that there were going to be some small changes to the latest batch of Tube connectors, i think something to do with better stability when used in plastic binding cups?
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Hey Peter, no worries, I got a 7/16 bit. It took off some material and now they fit perfectly & snugly. Just an FYI to you and others on this batch that they will not fit in the existing holes without at least some shaving, but 7/16 does it perfect.
I am so excited to be near the end of my first ever build. I made some mistakes but none that will hurt the sound I hope.
Kudos to you for the great cabinet materials.
Mark
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I've been learning a new patina technique which I'll be showing in an upcoming video. 16 ga steel inset in sides and top.
Here's a preview.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213113)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213114)
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won't be long before you're offering all aluminum flat packs and putting Magico out of business ;)
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I've been learning a new patina technique which I'll be showing in an upcoming video. 16 ga steel inset in sides and top.
Im digging that idea!
Tho i do wonder how the mass of the steel glued to MDF affects the cabinet resonance. 🤔
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Im digging that idea!
Tho i do wonder how the mass of the steel glued to MDF affects the cabinet resonance. 🤔
I wondered that too. It's a full spread of notched silicone to adhere panels. I can tell you it takes all the *tink* out of them and adds a little over 2 lbs. of mass to cabinet.
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I wondered that too. It's a full spread of notched silicone to adhere panels. I can tell you it takes all the *tink* out of them and adds a little over 2 lbs. of mass to cabinet.
That pretty interesting, i imagine that no-rez would only further dampen the overall response , since the steel/MDF combo act as both mass loading and with the silicon adhesive, constrained layer damping (CLD), then once you add the no-rez you get a dense butyl-like layer on the inside to help absorb even more resonance...
(I made a thread about mass loading and CLD on the Lab circle) but haven't checked on it since then 2-3 months later, so i should probably go back to it to see what was said.. :lol:
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I've been learning a new patina technique which I'll be showing in an upcoming video. 16 ga steel inset in sides and top.
Peter that looks fantastic. You have a good eye.
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Wow, that looks good.
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Would it be wrong to assume the video will be "riveting?"
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No idea but I'll definitely be glued to my seat :thumb:
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Link to newest video showing patinated steel inserts
https://youtu.be/WeQklZ2nQuk
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Here's something I think is cool.
Scott is building a pair of X-LSs. He also restores old outboard motors. The color chosen matches 1958 Johnson outboard motor. I've linked to his YouTube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3sI1mv9I7vglTOEWclyZtA?view_as=subscriber
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213336)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213337)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=213338)
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Link to newest video showing patinated steel inserts
https://youtu.be/D3CeZGKEac8
Great Video, Peter! :thumb:
Id love to see someone do something like that with copper sheets, I love the green patina that forms when using copper. Having something like that would look fantastic imo!
That red metal flake is gorgeous too, dang!
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If you are interested in patina copper sheets, check these out:
https://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Specialty__Veneer/Patina__Copper__Veneer/
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Love the creativity Peter! Just stunning work...as always.
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I agree Peter J, that is a great color.
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I recently got a helper
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216054)
And who can guess what I'm doing here?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216055)
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I recently got a helper
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216054)
And who can guess what I'm doing here?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216055)
Lots n lots of crossover boards!
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Lots n lots of crossover boards!
Ding-ding-ding! 99 of 'em from a 49x97 sheet.
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Scott recently sent me some photos of the X-LSs he built from a flat pack. He made a matching sub and all the cabinetry, as well. Pretty cool stuff, methinks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217078)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217079)
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:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Those look fantastic!
Scott recently sent me some photos of the X-LSs he built from a flat pack. He made a matching sub and all the cabinetry, as well. Pretty cool stuff, methinks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217078)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217079)
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Now that’s impressive!
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Wow it matches his media center cabinet perfectly
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Scott recently sent me some photos of the X-LSs he built from a flat pack. He made a matching sub and all the cabinetry, as well. Pretty cool stuff, methinks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217078)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217079)
Okay, now that is brilliant work. The cabinet looks like a beautiful modern take on 70’s futurism, and the speakers follow the aesthetic perfectly.
Also, I can’t pretend I didn’t notice that his cabinet seems principally arranged to show off his game systems. I see you, GameCube. Yeah you get a notice, Mega NT.
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The latest from my "too imaginative" mind. I'm embarking on a Baltic Birch tangent. I've liked the look of exposed plys but often it seems to translate into something that looks less than finished, at least to my eye. To that end, I'm cogitating on how to proceed with these and have them look different than is typical but not painted. Think looking though a colored lens.
The go-to for audio gear seems to be red or black, but I don't think I've seen many things tone coated in black. But then there's brighter colors, blue, yellow, aquamarine, purple etc.
I'm soliciting ideas...here's your chance to have a say! Although I won't promise your ideas will come to fruition, I'll consider each and every one.
These are sealed and ready to start with tone coats. One on left is sanded, right is yet to be sanded.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218075)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218076)
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What about a Faux Zebrawood Finish?
(https://www.ashley-spencer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/ZebrawoodPWebSample_NW.jpg)
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+1 on Zebrawood - one of my favorites
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What about a Faux Zebrawood Finish?
That's interesting. Can you link me to some sort of description of process or tutorial?
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+1 on Zebrawood - one of my favorites
Are y'all seeing this as an overall finish or in place of Maple veneer I've already applied? I am trying to leave exposed plys somewhat visible.
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Disclaimer: I have 0 woodworking skills. None. Zip.
I quickly found a video on youtube video for you. There are many.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIZZfzCVmLo
And then I assume you would apply a sealer (varnish?) over it all once that's dry.
My thought was to "beef up" the wood grain angle which is already there. But something more exotic.
(This link may also help.. I found it linked from the site where the image was pulled from https://www.casartcoverings.com/shop/casart-organics/zebrawood/ )
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The faux finishing looks kinda interesting. It reminds me of what we used to do many years ago...only we called it "antiquing". I'd like to see someone try it, but it's better suited to oil based finishes as opposed to solvent based catalyzed stuff which is my go-to.
I kinda like the "burst" effect on guitars and also on Salks. Never having attempted that, it seemed like a good time to jump into and see what I could do. Then I decided to add distressing in the way of sand throughs and, well, it bombed. I should have done one or the other and stuck with one color on the burst. I started with black tone coats, then switched to brown. I learned what not to do, which I suppose is learning, none-the-less.
I'll probably try again, but will approach differently. These are too far down the road to start over, so I'll end up "painting" them a solid color, rather than translucent tone coats.
Behold the "Ho-Hums":
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218230)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218231)
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I like what you are doing with the exposed plys Peter. Besides the look, I prefer birch plywood over MDF.
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I like it! :thumb:
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To get the burst just right is a tough one, at least for me. Salk has it down pat. I wonder how long it took him to prefect it.
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the angles and the exposed plywood layers look great
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I just uploaded a video introducing Baltic Birch as an option and giving a head mounted GoPro a whirl.
https://youtu.be/-cPJ0oQ68lw
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the gopro view is really helpful! you have me on the fence about ordering your plywood flat packs :lol:
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I just uploaded a video introducing Baltic Birch as an option and giving a head mounted GoPro a whirl.
https://youtu.be/-cPJ0oQ68lw
Another great video, Peter! The go pro really makes for a great perspective on the assembly process!
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Nice work Peter, as always.. I like the look of exposed plys on BB or ApplePly. I used the method on my garage boom box:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218481)
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Getting further down my long road, I've been messing around with finishing possibilities on the Baltic Birch cabinets. These have Satinwood veneer and an experiment with coloring. Learned a few things, but that's kinda why I do it anyway.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226020)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226021)
I've always thought binding post cups were a compromise. Take a solid cabinet, cut a big hole in it and fill that hole with flimsy, probably resonant, plastic. Here's a solution I've devised to do away with the big hole and fit a decent binding post in the same hole a Tube Connector. These are Delrin bushings, a tough non-conductive polymer. I proud to say they're made in the USA, too. Delrin is actually a brand name, the generic name is Acetal.
Since the beginning, I've offered a choice of backs on X-LS, which means I stock twice as many backs so I can accommodate people's desires. The majority of flat packs I sell have tube connectors so this would give folks a choice and I don't have to cut and stock two different backs. I can see other possibilities for their use, but before I place a big order, I'd be curious to get feedback from the good folks here. They'd sell for $36 and are cut to specifically fit this binding post although they might fit others designed for 1/4" mounting hole.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-BPA-38G-HD-Binding-Post-Pair-Gold-091-1245
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226029)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226030)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226031)
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Peter,
Love the veneer work but I have to admit, the coloring may be just a bit outside my comfort zone. I do like your solution for the binding posts. My question is, from Danny's view, is the gold plate enough? Is there ferromagnetic materials underneath the gold plate? Would the gold plate sufficiently overcome the problems with steel in the path?
Scott
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Is that $36 for 2 pairs? Seems like a good idea but not as cost saving as one might hope.
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Peter,
Love the veneer work but I have to admit, the coloring may be just a bit outside my comfort zone. I do like your solution for the binding posts. My question is, from Danny's view, is the gold plate enough? Is there ferromagnetic materials underneath the gold plate? Would the gold plate sufficiently overcome the problems with steel in the path?
Scott
The posts and tabs are gold plated brass, the washers and nuts gold plated steel. Presumably, if someone objects to this, they would opt for tube connectors anyway. Bear in mind, the standard binding post Danny offers is unplated brass and steel, so the Dayton would be a significant step up in quality.
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Is that $36 for 2 pairs? Seems like a good idea but not as cost saving as one might hope.
$36 for 4 bushings and 4 washers. Enough for two speakers or four binding posts. I could probably get them made outside US and use lesser plastic, but it's not my preference. Also, I'd have to purchase thousands compared to hundreds.
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I like them, it gives me ideas about an enhanced desktop mini build.
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I can't help but wonder what this does to the LGK 2.0? Is that the next speaker announcement? Will that speaker have the same uses as this speaker?
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Rob sent me photos of his build using my flat pack. Veneer is Cypress, whitewashed, Arm-R-Seal, then polished. A gift for his brother-in-law. Pretty cool, huh?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226528)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226529)
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What is the “pad” that they are sitting on?
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Those remind me of one of the original X-series finishes from AV-123. They look nice.
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Rob sent me photos of his build using my flat pack. Veneer is Cypress, whitewashed, Arm-R-Seal, then polished. A gift for his brother-in-law. Pretty cool, huh?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226528)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226529)
Absolutely stunning Encores. Lucky brother in law. Sound and looks both stunning. :)
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Peter, thanks for posting these picks. This build was the first time I've used your flat pack for the X-LS Encore's. The quality of the MDF and the fit of the cabinet were perfect. Thanks for giving me a great "foundation" to build these on.
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Thanks for the memories and music, Eddie. My nod to your legacy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227886)
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What do y'all think I should do with this funky veneer?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227925)
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Hey, really nice Eruption Encores there! That's some wild veneer that looks like a little will go a long way or suited for use in an industrial themed cab, maybe as borders for a copper inlay panel.
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Thanks for the memories and music, Eddie. My nod to your legacy.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227886)
A+ work as always Peter
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Use that veneer for speaker sides, with rest of speaker, baffle, back, top and bottom all black...or the cream color or green from the veneer.
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What do y'all think I should do with this funky veneer?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227925)
Peter I would love to see it starting on one side then over the top and down the other side. Round the edges like a Q acoustics 3030i.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227996)
Cheers
SC
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What is the “pad” that they are sitting on?
Hi. Those are isolation pads. It's just to provide a foam barrier between the bottom of the speaker and the cabinet they are sitting on (so no wood-to-wood contact). I think any dense foam material would do.
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Adam sent me some photos of his completed Baltic Birch flat packs. He chose a Cerused finish on Oak.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237955)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237956)
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Adam sent me some photos of his completed Baltic Birch flat packs. He chose a Cerused finish on Oak.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231340)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231341)
It's nice but I have always had a hard time liking black veneers with prominent grain, cerused finish grain looking grey or white on a black speaker. Just me though and I think he has done a fantastic job of veneering them. Pro grade. :)
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Patrick sent me some photos of his X-LS Encores. Birch Burl with clear sealer and 18 coats of Arm-R-Seal. His first speaker build but you wouldn't know it. Check out the reflections...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241191)
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The depth of that shine is amazing.
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Some fun with the wacky veneer I showed earlier. I'll be doing a video on how I did the chamfers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241554)
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Some fun with the wacky veneer I showed earlier. I'll be doing a video on how I did the chamfers.
Never one to do a plain Jane basic model, are you... Those look rad! :thumb:
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Never one to do a plain Jane basic model, are you... Those look rad! :thumb:
Yeah, I suppose plain Jane is mostly behind me...
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that veneer reminds me of when my tv antenna became unplugged and my tv just displayed static ;)
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Some fun with the wacky veneer I showed earlier. I'll be doing a video on how I did the chamfers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241554)
hell yes!
I can't wait to see the completed versions in a nice gloss!
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hell yes!
I can't wait to see the completed versions in a nice gloss!
Actually, I'm just finishing up beyond what video will show. I wanted to do a fully grain filled hand applied finish. Always experimenting, you know! Final sheen will be satin which I prefer on wood. Glossy 'mo betta on painted methinks, but that's me.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241572)
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Those corners look crazy, but way cool. I like that satin look, too.
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those look shiny enough for me! :thumb:
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I posted video about chamfers and veneering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiMGr1bduF0&t=4850s
Had to redo parts I boogered, this should work:
https://studio.youtube.com/video/gQMo5Rqoqgw/edit
One more time, my apologies. Thanks Hobbs for fixing. I no longer get notifications of activity here. Site thinks my email address is bogus somehow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMo5Rqoqgw
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I posted video about chamfers and veneering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiMGr1bduF0&t=4850s
Had to redo parts I boogered, this should work:
https://studio.youtube.com/video/gQMo5Rqoqgw/edit
Nope! Links does not work. Try again, we are all eager….
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https://youtu.be/gQMo5Rqoqgw
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Really good video Peter, as always.
Now that I know more about ShopSabre I recognize your machine. Good one :thumb:
Mike
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Really good video Peter, as always.
Now that I know more about ShopSabre I recognize your machine. Good one :thumb:
Mike
And when you get your new toy, Mike, you can make one of these!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241794)
Well, I guess you'd want your company name, but none-the-less....
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Dan sent me a photo of his completed flat-pack. Cherry with water-base clear.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247576)
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Not X-LS, but you could do it on some if you wanted.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256476)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwHBj9DGjA
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I like it!!!
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Not X-LS, but you could do it on some if you wanted.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256476)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwHBj9DGjA
Those are some pretty good speakers, I got to listen to them for a few weeks, they have a great sense of imaging and soundstage. they were a little thin in the bass, but I think a lot of that came down to my room, as I had also heard them in a different room where they sounded much fuller down low.
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Not X-LS, but you could do it on some if you wanted.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256476)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwHBj9DGjA
Peter, your skills never cease to impress. :thumb: :thumb:
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Looks good,
I just finished assembly of a pair I cut and built myself. I'm waiting on some veneer so I can wrap them.. Your videos on how to finish the cabinets inspired me to try my hand at a cherry veneer.
Thank you,