AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Vapor Audio => Topic started by: EdRo on 21 Aug 2019, 04:28 pm
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Ok, guys. I'm finally getting these "proof of concept' cabs painted, just in time for a speaker show in Grand Rapids, Mi. Hosted by Meniscus Audio September 20th and 21st, this gala event will be at the Grand River Hotel in the conference room. One of the subjects of this show will be "Do high performance crossover components make an audible difference". These speakers are being painted as I write this piano gloss white, but should the stands be white also? or black? I can't decide!!! Feel free to give me your 2 cents!
Thanks, guys.
Ed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172690)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172691)
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vertical upright WHITE,
flat base horizontal -BLACK
Nice looking.
Good Luck
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vertical upright WHITE,
flat base horizontal -BLACK
Nice looking.
Good Luck
+1
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I would suggest the color of the front baffle for the stands. Then, the stand gets less attention. but still fits in the scheme of things. And that will also make the color and finish of the actual speaker STAND OUT MORE.
If the speakers are going to have fabric baffle covers, then the stands should be that color. or both stand and baffle cover same as the front baffle.
(if the stand is like it is now.. it looks like a whale... IE unattractive. mainly for that little extra flat part at the bottom sticking out. looks home made rather than professional The stand middle to base junction is just not making a good impression in white. Trust me. The juxposition if the nice curve in back, but then the flat joining to the base.. two different styles? not quiet there.. I would not want to make it stand out. which it does if white.
Yes I am a harsh critic. Better your friend than not.
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Black
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I would suggest the color of the front baffle for the stands. Then, the stand gets less attention. but still fits in the scheme of things. And that will also make the color and finish of the actual speaker STAND OUT MORE.
+1
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Consider bold but conservative colors like burgundy or emerald green baffle and stands.
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Maybe wrap it in white robes with a gold rope belt cinching it all up :D
For some reason, I think Pontiff hat when I look a these.
Blessed be the music lovers...
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When I look at it from the front I think paint the stand piano black. When I look from the side I think paint it piano white.
Probably piano black is the best option (yes I'm changing my vote, lol).
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The painter suggested that the if stands are black, the cabs will almost appear to be floating, making the speakers the focal point. I think I agree.
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So some of you don't like the peak of the cabs going up and back? This isn't the first time I've heard this...priest/druid/Pharoh speakers...
It's tough creating something interesting and unique. Thanks for giving me your input guys. I need to hear it.
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vote for black stands
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Hey Elizabeth. Thanks for the critisisms, and I don't think they were harsh. ""(if the stand is like it is now.. it looks like a whale... IE unattractive. mainly for that little extra flat part at the bottom sticking out. looks home made rather than professional The stand middle to base junction is just not making a good impression in white. Trust me. The juxposition if the nice curve in back, but then the flat joining to the base.. two different styles? not quiet there.. I would not want to make it stand out. which it does if white.""
I struggled with my stand shape for weeks and weeks, finally going with the one you see. I initially wanted an outrigger setup under this vertical "column". Maybe that would still be more effective visually? What If I projected the speakers' shape to the bottom piece? I need to get this finalized! AARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes I think that could do better. The problem I see stylistically is the mismatch in shapes. They do not look like they are 'of one design'. they look cobbled.
See the nice way the top curves, it connects with the way the sides of the speaker body curves. really well. Then note how ungracefully the flat base of the stand curves compared to the actual stand. different and not complementary. The stand itself is decent. Giving it a compound curve so it narrowed then back out but might cost a whole lot more to make??
If you have little time, I would just remove that little 'pointed' area at the tip of the flat base. It draws attention to the base too much.
And is easy to take off?
If also possible round off the base to be a little more the shape of the stand proper curve as it exits the front. not a lot needed. to cut the bulb effect of (the front sides) the flat base.
If any of that is too much to do before the show just skip it and paint it. Not that it's current shape is somehow bad, it just is not a lot like the speaker.
I do NOT want to get you over extended.. Or cutting stuff up you cannot undo if it look bad,
SO again, if you have time otherwise just paint it on time in time. Way better to have a speaker than almost a speaker to show. :thumb:
PS that front speaker plate is a GREAT color for the base. it is grey, matches up the base TO the speaker in a good way. If you are going to do the presentation with no grill, I would go with the speaker front plate color match. And no messing with the design of the base. (at the last minute)
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I really appreciate the skill and creativity here. Great stuff!
Now...if it were me, I would have made the front surface of the stand and/or at least the base of the stand follow the shape of the face of the speaker. This way you have some form continuity starting at the floor that leads one's eyes up to the face of the speakers. Right now it looks like 3 separate ideas (speaker shape, stand shape, and base shape) versus one cohesive design. When struggling for ideas in these situations, just keep it clean and simple and you will rarely go wrong. :wink:
As it is, I agree with Elizabeth. Give the stands a dark neutral color that matches the front baffle. This will help a bit with color continuity. At the same time it will not draw attention to the lack of form continuity...helping it blend in with the environment.
If the form of the stands matched the speakers, you could paint them the same as the speakers or paint them a dark neutral color and they'd look great either way.
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Am I the only one that thinks all white w/ black (paynes gray) front baffle? Seems like us artist/designers always have the unpopular opinion.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172689)
Here's another shot more from the side. This "stand" started off as my idea to remove the normal "plinth" from the equation. That is, I wanted to do away with the "box sitting on another box" thing. Since it was beneficial to put the crossover somewhere other than in the speaker cab, and I needed to give this large monitor height to align the tweeter with the listener's ear, I decided to widen the vertical to make room for the x-o. Then I could put outriggers on the bottom of the vertical and wouldn't technically have the "box sitting on a box' thang going. That was my original intent.
...Oh...and to me this design almost reminds me of a starship...ala Star Trek...I like it. Whether it flows as well as I like, this was a "proof of concept". I'll explain at the show, in Grand Rapids next month!
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Hi Ed, you appear to be asking for feedback... I think the base should use the same angles you used on the rear of the cabinet only with the point at the front. Less depth as compared to the cabinet. I think that would tie it together. You would still have room for the crossover, and maybe outriggers instead of the base. I think carbon fiber would look sharp on the base, I’m pretty sure I have seen you work with that in the past, perhaps i’m mistaken. Anyway, just one mans opinion. Love the cabinet shape.
Best,
Ed
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From my structural engineering background, I'd like to see a wider/thicker/heavier base plate to add lateral stability and move the center of gravity closer to the floor. And as long as the face is black, I'd make the base plate black too. And why not do away with the exposed top plate on the stand and just bolt it into the speaker?
Agree that the shape theme of the speaker doesn't quite match that of the stand (not that most do). If undecided why not offer a variety of base sizes/shapes and speaker colors so customers can pick and set the height to their preference?
Have you considered a grey speaker/stand body? This is a big speaker, a neutral color would reduce its impact and make it look less like a zebra.
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I tend to agree the awesome aesthetics of the speaker dont match the stand, therefore black is best to help disappear.
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From the side photo, the way the base curve at the very bottom is 'radiused'. if it was less of a large circular curve radius (looks like wood working 101) and more 'in tune with the sharpness of the speaker. The actual large radius of the cut is OK. but if it were the same shape as the side of the speaker curve..(The curve there, just sagging? some so it is not so circular, more a curve like the speaker side) just vertical curve like the speakers horizontal.. it would blend and connect more.
The little other curve I am whining about is the little one, at the base the rounded off end at the back bottom. Make more perky, and like the speaker shape, not so round.
I have to say the point at the base front looks better from the side...
Tell us to STOP!! if this is just getting annoying :thumb:
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All white, even the baffle, for maximum WAF. A warm but bright white.
Add some subtle "rose gold' / coppery accent trims, like woofer frame, maybe copper letters spelling the brand or model name stuck onto the speaker, like the old Gemme Katana speakers.
Curvey shape is very WAF! Nice job!
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Yes, I am looking for feedback. I realize that everyone has different ideas about what looks good and what doesn't. I am trying to develop a new speaker shape that will work for both stand and column speakers. So don't worry about voicing your opinions here. There are things about this cab shape that I've already changed because I don't like the visual balance of the design. I like some of the ideas mentioned about the stand. I'll try to incorporate these in the next iteration to make a more pleasing but functional overall design. Keep the opinions coming, guys. Please!
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The speaker shape is GREAT.. I think it would be a knockout in some exotic wood!
Even in plain old white the speaker shape is exciting and vibrant. as it is. :thumb:
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Thanks Elizabeth! :rock: I think it rocks, too. Even though I've seen similar shapes before, this top I have is different. I haven't seen another like it. And that part can draw some criticism, also. The latest version is smaller, with a seam down the back. It's easier to build, move and set up. The smaller one is set up with a 6" woofer. It's going through crossover testing as I write this. I'll add a pic of this "mini VonOtto soon. Thanks for your feedback so far folks!!!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197837)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197838)
Here are the stands and cabs in black primer...
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Everyone -- stand down! They look a helluva lot better with black primer. :lol:
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Ed, perhaps you could state or somehow scale the size of these speakers. Your earlier models were quite big, making any unusual attributes (like the pointy top) stand out excessively. Definitely would stand out in almost any setting and probably have very low WAF. So getting the color right is vital. Going very dark could really make them seem very foreboding (almost like a Sci-Fi monster). As the shape is rather organic, suggest some sort of Earth tone(s).
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They might actually look cool in a sort of textured black paint, and matte instead of gloss.
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The WAF is gonna be white gloss speaker.. :thumb:
Just sayin'
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I would suggest the color of the front baffle for the stands. Then, the stand gets less attention. but still fits in the scheme of things. And that will also make the color and finish of the actual speaker STAND OUT MORE.
If the speakers are going to have fabric baffle covers, then the stands should be that color. or both stand and baffle cover same as the front baffle.
(if the stand is like it is now.. it looks like a whale... IE unattractive. mainly for that little extra flat part at the bottom sticking out. looks home made rather than professional The stand middle to base junction is just not making a good impression in white. Trust me. The juxposition if the nice curve in back, but then the flat joining to the base.. two different styles? not quiet there.. I would not want to make it stand out. which it does if white.
Yes I am a harsh critic. Better your friend than not.
Agree 100%. As a retired Architect Interior designer face and stand same color.
charlers
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I hope this works...
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197861)
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What ever color, I hope the demo goes GREAT !!! and you have a good time. :thumb:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197864)
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I decided to go with all white, mainly because I know even though the baffles are black, the stands painted black will be a different tone of black than the baffles. Sometimes that tonal difference can look really bad. So...all white. I think this all white set looks pretty good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197869)
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The cool thing about all white is that you can really customize the look/feel of the speaker by having different grill cloth colors. I have white speakers with burgundy grill cloths, but I'm about to change them to navy grill cloths, because the decor in my room changed recently. It's a nice bit of extra flexibility that's hard to achieve with speakers that are black or wood veneered.
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You made the right decision, in my professional opinion.
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Hey guys!!! Thanks for helping. "Speakers by committee" isn't my normal mode of operation. But, these are one off proof of concept speakers that I need to move. Again, thanks for the opinions offered, and if anyone is interested in listening to these, feel free to p.m. me. These are a one off unique set of cabs, with very good parts.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198010)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198011)
Almost done!
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Hey Ed,
Thanks for your help with my small problem on the Vapor Joule Blacks. I have bought a couple sets of wires that made them really sing to go with the components I already love. Acquired a pair of LessLoss Reference PCs to use with my Nuforce Ref 9 V3 SE mono amps w/ TDSS level 3 upgrades. Wonderful sounding. Just got a pair of Aether Audio PCs w/ the Smith cell that are even more authoritative sounding to use on my phono preamp and Modwright CD. Now the Vapor's sound is as good as I can imagine at this point. Down the road, maybe more will and definitely can be done.
Your new speakers look very nice in white. It would be fun to hear them someday.
Later on,
Bob
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198011)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198010)
Just bumping up these latest pics. After closer inspection while buffing, my painter says he has small black flecks everywhere in the paint. He might have to redo them!
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Sorry to hear that.
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The painter just explained; no big deal. Another coat of paint and another shot of clear. Even better finish when done.
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That speaker looks like it’s ready for take off !! :thumb:
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The painter can see black specks in the paint. I literally can't see them. So, he's repainting them. The finish looks amazing; the stands being white was a good choice. I can't wait to get some good pics of these posted. I think most everyone will like em!
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Glad to hear everything's good for you, Bob. Those are some beautiful speakers you have over there.
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So, stlrman, is that a good thing or bad?
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They are awesome looking !!
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The painter has found more black specks in the piano white VonOttos, so they're definately getting a repaint. The new paint is ordered...
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I just picked up the cabs from my painter. He did a great job, and as soon as I can get them assembled I'll post pics. I think everyone should like em.
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Ok guys...here's all white with a black corian baffle. .
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198640)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198641)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198642)
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Well Ed, I don't really like white speakers. But those are beautiful!
But enough about the looks, I have a pretty good idea you know what you're doing and they sound amazing!
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Size? They make the rest of the furniture look almost doll like in comparison.
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I try to flip these pics, and they're right side up in my gallery, but still on their sides here. What's up?
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They look fine here. I use Google Chrome on Windows 10 laptop.
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Whole page here looks fine on Firefox v69.0, Win 10
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I bet it's my sad little new phone.
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Ed, you did a bang up job on those speakers - very impressive.
Looking forward to comments on the sound!
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Hey JLM. Do you think I made these monitors too big? Maybe I should have painted them black for the slimming effect. Or put vertical lines on them? :lol:
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"Does this paint job make me look fat?"
"No dear, of course not".
:P
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I love the look of these. Nicely done!
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Glad to see I’m the winning recommendation for the paint look! I win them, right? :D :wink:
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If you can curl them both in their shipping crates with one hand, then, I'd be suicidal not to give them to you, right? :o