AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => NuForce => Topic started by: Antoine on 31 Jan 2006, 08:42 pm
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Hi!
Has anyone read the review in HiFi+ (issue 42)? It's the first review I've read in which the reviewer is negative about the NuForce Ref 9 monoblocks. There is no mention about the version of the amplifier, does anyone know? He made some negative remarks about the dynamics of the amplifier, not the dynamics for the entire audible range but for single instruments that suddenly increase in volume in which the amplifier could not keep up. Also the midrange was laidback and darkcoloured. (NB. I'm not quoting as I don't have the magazine at hand right now)
Are all the other reviewers wrong or not being objective?
I am planning to listen to two Ref9's soon, together with the preamplifier to judge for myself but if anyone would like to comment on this review please do!
Kind regards,
Antoine.
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Gotta be something wrong with the reviewers ears. The midrange on the Nuforce 9's is not laid back. They may have one of the best midranges you will hear. A very nice forward presentation. Sometimes I wonder about those guys. It's getting so I'd rather take the word of an audiocircle member than a magazine reviewer.
Cheers
Charlie
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I would guess the ad space NuForce took out was not big enough. :mrgreen:
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Oops! I'm so sorry, I bought two magazines today and I mixed the two up! :oops: It's not Stereophile but Hifi+ (www.hifiplus.com) a UK magazine that wrote the review.
I will edit the subject of this post if I can and will write some quotes tomorrow, I left the magazines at work!
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Antoine:
Makes no difference as far as I'm concerned I stand behind what I said about the Nuforce 9 amps
Cheers
Charlie
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I've neither read the review nor heard the amp but keep in mind that people always talk about "British sounding" or "typical british sound" when they refer to long standing british products like Arcam, Monitor Audio, etc. I see many US magazines say this. So it may be that a UK magazine is used to a different sound and thus didn't like the Nuforce amps.
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Big deal.
If we all liked the same thing, and if there was truly one piece of audiophile equipment that did it all - where would the fun be?
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Well, the original poster has a legitimate concern. I can count on one hand the number of negative product reviews I've read from a professional, print magazine. Seeing one can be pretty shocking. I'm agreeing that it doesn't mean much, I'm just dending his original concern.
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CJ,
My post above comes across as a bit brash / harsh. I do agree that the original poster has a great reason for being concerned, especially before having laid down what I would at least, consider a pretty large amount of green.
Just the same, there comes a point to where you have to accept things as they are. Without knowing any of these reviewers on a very personal level, I nor anyone else could say with absolute certainty that their reviews and impressions are genuine, lacking coats of sugar and all that sweet stuff. I am not sure he is going to get an answer to that question, which leads to the rhetoric we all end up repeating at one point or another.
Just as a reference point, class D amps lacking dynamics is a shocker to me... no matter the cost. I guess it could happen, I haven't heard it all - that includes Nu Force products...
Just the same, no matter what you own - you will find someone that has a complaint that will contradict what other(s) have said or discovered. Thats audio for ya - there are no absolutes.
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Did the review mention what other equipment was used?
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I realize Ground Hogs Day is right around the corner, but thought I was having big time Deja Vu. Nope. Same topic, earlier thread from almost two months ago. Same review, same comments.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=24026
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Since the HiFi+ review, 3 major UK magazines are currently reviewing Ref 9 for Summer publishing (they will be reviewing Ref 9 SE too). Let me just say that the reviewers loved the amps so much that they are keeping it.
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A6M-ZERO, I didn't think you were harsh, just making a point based on the original poster. I agree with everything you say. We shouldn't be buying gear 100% based on reviews any way.
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I've purchased a ton of stuff based solely on reviews. I haven't heard the Ref 9 and purchased one for my center channel (as my Lexicon/Bryston won't drive it loud enough). If I don't like it, I'll sell it. On the other hand, it's hard to buy one-channel amps. There aren't many monoblocks out there that aren't ridiculously expensive.
Similarly, when I buy my overhead/front projector, I'll never see one in action. I don't even know where you can look at them in CT. I'll just go by the reviews and see what happens. I can always sell it later.
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Well having spoken with Roy today, he admitted to trying different amps (all esoteric) and loudspeakers, but he only used Nordost Valhalla cables in all his testing (nuff said) :nono:
Having spoken to three UK dealers today and a couple of other UK reviewers, currently in possession of the ref 9's, all said on hearing his choice of cable they would never recommend using Nordost cables to review any product. They have a real sonic signature of their own and will impose this on the equipment used. Not my words just three successful UK Retailers and some more NuForce fans in the press, all with experience of Nordost.
Sure they work in some systems, but not in all, so to not try a different cable, hmmm??? :!:
Anybody else used Nordost with their NuForce amps? I am getting some here next week to listen to, I'll report back.
Maybe we'll get some sensible sub £2000 cables to Roy and see what a difference real world cabling in a real world system, costing say less than £10k will do. :wink:
Any suggestions?
HIAudio.
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Other than a slight veiling of the highs, noticeable compression of dynamics of the midrange, and substantial rolloff of the bass...
... even cheapo Monster InterLink 400 cables allow the Ref 9s to sound pretty good.
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Using the dialogue from A Few Good Man movie:
NuForce: You want answers?
HiFi+: I think I'm entitled to them.
NuForce: You want answers?
HiFi+: I want the truth!
NuForce: You can't handle the truth!
This is not the first time we reveal weakness in someone's system and got the blame.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Thank you all for your reply's!! They are very useful (none taken as harsh) and I agree on the remarks that this reviewer might have made an/some error(s) and that his taste might differ. Although I do think that for a power amplifier taste should not be relevant as it should be neutral. As I have always understood, preamps are much harder to design/make neutral sounding than poweramps.
I must also admit that the review itself was rather short, it looked as if it was made in a hurry. I haven't had the time yet but will look up and post the used equipment (if mentioned) next week and quote some of his findings.
@HIAudio, I am very interested in your findings with the Nordost cables because I am currently using the Superflatline LS cables of Nordost in my set. So when they are a bad match I would surely "like" to hear about it, so I can mabye change those when reviewing the Rev9's. To be honest I have always thought the Nordosts are great and neutral, at least in my current set. Before these I had the Chord Carnival's SP. When I first connected the Nordosts the soundstage really opened up and became much more 3D and bass was a lot tighter too. But nonetheless I'm very interested in hearing the cables that you think are a good match.
Regards,
Antoine.
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I've purchased a ton of stuff based solely on reviews. I haven't heard the Ref 9 and purchased one for my center channel (as my Lexicon/Bryston won't drive it loud enough). If I don't like it, I'll sell it. On the other hand, it's hard to buy one-channel amps. There aren't many monoblocks out there that aren't ridiculously expensive.
Similarly, when I buy my overhead/front projector, I'll never see one in action. I don't even know where you can look at them in CT. I'll just go by the reviews and see what happens. I can always sell it later.
When I read reviews, I look at the measurements they made (if any), and also look for comments about physical things (requires two people to move, has sharp edges, arrived broken, it broke after a month, etc.) and also anything about the maker's design philosophy and how well they stand behind their product.
I skip all the hoohah where they talk about playing different recordings and noticing that the bass is dark brown, chocolaty, and attracts ants. All of that garbage boils down to someone trying to describe that which can't be described. Hell, I could probably sit down and study some audio mags and then crank out a review a day too.
There are some subjective comments that are warranted and that I'd read. Unfortunately, the majority of reviewers get really carried away and put me right to sleep. :)
As an example, for a typical Stereophile review, I'll read the beginning and the measurements and (typically) JA's comments on them. If something there seems fishy, I'll read the reviewers summary at the end of the review.
Maybe Sterophile is a bad example. They have me paying $12/yr and I've decided not to renew after the first year. I wind up reading maybe a 1/4 of the mag and then toss it.
Another bad thing about reviews is that they're sticking something, let's say a preamp, into a system that's an unknown to me. They don't really no what the interactions are. Maybe the preamp has trouble driving the really long gonzo ICs that this reviewer uses. The resulting review may not mean much unless you have the same equipment and room the reviewer has.
I listen to people who own the equipment in question. If you felt it was good enough to spend your hard-earned money on, then that gives your comments some weight. I listen to what the maker says. I want to hear their design philosophy and how they solve problems. I talk to the maker if at all possible. I also greatly prefer a money-back guarantee.
As far as CT, I'd think there would be plenty of places to get most anything. New Haven and Bridgeport seem like big cities. :) There's also plenty of money in the ex-urbs, so maybe there would be stores there. Finally, you can always take the train into the City. Even Boston isn't out of reach. You're in a great place. Just think about poor me here in Ohio. It's a wasteland for audio and video. :)
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Using the dialogue from A Few Good Man movie:
NuForce: You want answers?
HiFi+: I think I'm entitled to them.
NuForce: You want answers?
HiFi+: I want the truth!
NuForce: You can't handle the truth!
This is not the first time we reveal weakness in someone's system and got the blame.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Uh, yeah. That's the way to do it. "It's not us, it's the other equipment in your system."
I'd rather hear you say you have no idea why the review was bad. Adding that you are looking into it to figure out the problem would also be reassuring.
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Uh, yeah. That's the way to do it. "It's not us, it's the other equipment in your system."
I said that at the beginning. I don't expect people to take my A Few Good Man joke too seriously. Roy is a tube guy and it is very likely that he doesn't like NuForce amp.
As far as whether to follow reviews, recently a dealer called to sign up and he summed up very well:
I have been following you guys for many months now. Initially it was one or two reviews and they caught my attention. I waited for more reviews and also have been monitoring the internet to read users' posting. It is the consistency of all the comments that prompted me to get onboard.
Some people have their favorite reviewer that they trust. Many others just buy whatever that has won the top award (Editor Choice, Amp of The Year etc) as they are lazy shopper (I am guilty too as that's how I shop for my PC or projector). Some knows exactly what they are looking for and search for a particular review that match their taste and then go kick the tires.
As a manufacturer who is very open to suggestion and never shy away from problems, we try to learn as much as possible from reviewers. Very often after we get to know the reviewer, we push for criticism. We don't just rely on our own measurement and listening test, we have a network of golden ears that help to trash the amp. The trashing job is getting harder and harder now :lol: