AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Circles => General Archive => Topic started by: HiFiSoundGuy on 6 Feb 2007, 04:10 pm
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http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/469554.html aa This thread does not work now
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You know, I can't help but imagine Geoff Kait sitting in his living room, big smile on his face, looking up at a sampler he has hanging on the wall above his fireplace that reads:
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about --Oscar Wilde
se
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With all fun aside....that funny professional review here, :nono:people everywhere just love to make fun of these clocks and most of them have never even tried them :scratch: out! What a shame! There's a few people over on the Audio Asylum forum that going to be testing out these clocks soon.......Stay Tuned!.. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/bbs.html 8)
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Hello HiFiSoundGuy,
Are you AKA Jeoff Kait? If, so I think we are neighbors and I would love to come to your house and chat about your products. I pass your house every morning. I believe we went to same school as well. I am CLAS 1985. What are you. I assume you were a toolie?
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woodsyi,
It seems potentially likely that this is indeed, Jeoff Kait.....based on IP his address - most likely his work address in Washington, DC.
Jeoff, we're not fond here on manufacturers dropping in without identification of who they are...and schilling their wares under an alias. Schilling can be done in our Industry Ads area....that's what it's their for :nono:
As you are a manufacturer/supplier, you must identify as such on your profile and./or avator and signoff. We don't mind you being here...we mind you being here under an alias of a regular member.
Please fess up to it, or convince us otherwise that you are not Jeoff Kait of Machina Dynamica. Otherwise, further actions will be taken.
John / Moderator / AudioCentral
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With all fun aside....that funny professional review here, :nono:people everywhere just love to make fun of these clocks and most of them have never even tried them :scratch: out! What a shame! There's a few people over on the Audio Asylum forum that going to be testing out these clocks soon.......Stay Tuned!.. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/bbs.html 8)
I for one can hardly wait for the AA reviews to start pouring in. Those guys at AA are some serious audio people.
Woodsyi-You don't really think this guy is a shill for the CLC do you?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=40582;sa=showPosts (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=40582;sa=showPosts)
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woodsyi,
It seems potentially likely that this is indeed, Jeoff Kait.....based on IP his address - most likely his work address in Washington, DC.
Jeoff, we're not fond here on manufacturers dropping in without identification of who they are...and schilling their wares under an alias. Schilling can be done in our Industry Ads area....that's what it's their for :nono:
As you are a manufacturer/supplier, you must identify as such on your profile and./or avator and signoff. We don't mind you being here...we mind you being here under an alias of a regular member.
Please fess up to it, or convince us otherwise that you are not Jeoff Kait of Machina Dynamica. Otherwise, further actions will be taken.
John / Moderator / AudioCentral
NO, I'm not Jeoff Kait of Machina Dynamica!
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NO, I'm not Jeoff Kait of Machina Dynamica!
That much is certain. But are you Geoff Kait of Machina Dynamica? :green:
se
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Or, allowing for less room to maneuver than even that (good catch, se :)) - are you in any way connected to Machina Dynamica and/or have our fortunes aligned in any way to the sales of The Clever Little Clock?
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Please fess up to it, or convince us otherwise that you are not Jeoff Kait of Machina Dynamica. Otherwise, further actions will be taken.
So whomever this person is they're assumed to be guilty until they prove themself innocent? :scratch:
se
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Absolutely. String him up! By the way, who is he?
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Absolutely. String him up!
Anybody got any string?
By the way, who is he?
Beats me. Obviously someone who owns the CLC and has a sense of humor (did you follow the links through to the Monk-e-mail bit?).
se
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Or, allowing for less room to maneuver than even that (good catch, se :)) - are you in any way connected to Machina Dynamica and/or have our fortunes aligned in any way to the sales of The Clever Little Clock?
:nono: NO, I'm not contacted to Machina Dynamica in any way or sales of the clever little clocks!
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If he is not Jeoff but still works in DC, he is in my neighborhood. If I could borrow the 2 clocks, I would gladly check them out in my system and post my impression. I can even invite HiFiSound Guy and Jeoff Kait along with a some members of MAAC who has heard my system to listen along with me. I promise to keep an open mind. Would you do that?
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It's doubt it's Geoff Kait. He posts on AA under his own name. Yes, this person (HiFiSoundGuy) has also posted in the AVS Forum praising Clever Little Clocks and Brilliant Pebbles but posted even more often praising (not trying to start a flame war here) BOSE! One poster even accused him of working for Bose. This is now becoming crystal clear. CLC and Brilliant Pebbles may very well improve the sound of Bose. System synergy and all that. If I had a Bose Acoustimass System I'd be desperate to find anything to make it sound better. Clever Little Clocks, Brilliant Pebbles, Intelligent Chips, Plutonium Ear Implants, knitting needles hammered into my ear canal, .357 to the temple, anything......
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So whomever this person is they're assumed to be guilty until they prove themself innocent? :scratch:
se
Correct - we operate under principles of the Napoleonic code here, not English Common Law :nono:
Yes - I am kidding :)
This is a very weird world we live in now....and one guy at some anonymous keyboard somewhere can piss off a lot of folks intentionally (and not intentionally, too) if you're not just a tad overzealous in moderation.
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It's doubt it's Geoff Kait. He posts on AA under his own name. Yes, this person (HiFiSoundGuy) has also posted in the AVS Forum praising Clever Little Clocks and Brilliant Pebbles but posted even more often praising (not trying to start a flame war here) BOSE! One poster even accused him of working for Bose. This is now becoming crystal clear. CLC and Brilliant Pebbles may very well improve the sound of Bose. System synergy and all that. If I had a Bose Acoustimass System I'd be desperate to find anything to make it sound better. Clever Little Clocks, Brilliant Pebbles, Intelligent Chips, Plutonium Ear Implants, knitting needles hammered into my ear canal, .357 to the temple, anything......
Yes that was me over on AVS forum.....Bose does make some good products like their all new Acoustic Wave Music System 2.....you can compare it to higher priced large home stereo systems, it just might be their best product they have right now! Could it be the clocks, pebbles be helping things here...I would say Yes! The clocks I have are tweaked a little, I put some of Peter Belt's Frozen Memory Foil on each battery in the clocks that made them even better! This thread here it talks about these upgrades on the clocks.... http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1162244234&read&3&4& This thread here also talks about these upgrades on the clocks too....... http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/3/t/000113.html
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You tweaked a Clever Little Clock? Now I HAVE seen it all.
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You tweaked a Clever Little Clock? Now I HAVE seen it all.
You ain't seen nothin' yet. Wait till you coat that CLC with Kosher Chicken Fat!
You'll be dancin' in schmaltz!
Oy Veh!
d.b.
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The Clever Little Clocks won an Award here.... http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/brutus.htm
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By awarding that stupid clock, Positive Feedback hurts its credibility with me rather than adding to the Clock's credibility, which I imagine was their intention.
HiFiSoundGuy was sent here to antagonize, entertain or demean us. Can't tell which but nothing he has to say will ever be taken seriously by this reader. I have too much experience with value, reality, products and function to fall for such nonsense.
Reading questions and comments in various audio forums makes me aware that many fundamental misunderstandings exist in audio. But most of it is failed logic or just confusion conferred by advertising or intiated by the likewise confused. This instance represents outright fraud in my opinion. Like religion, it traffics in subjective or unverifiable claims that cannot be disproven. Certain unfortunate persons exist who see the failure to disprove as being a form of proof. These fools are the customer base for stuff like the clock.
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macrojack, my new hero. Nothing better than a guy who tells it like it is.
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HiFiSoundGuy also posted this in AA Tweakers and a ruckus ensued. Overzealous fanboy? Troll? Someone in desperate need of a life? How many audio forums has he posted this in?
EDIT: Looks like he posted the same thing using the handle JFK in the Stereophile forum. Man, good thing I'm at work and getting paid to waste my time like this :). Guess I won't be Employee of the Month, keeping my streak intact at 173 months and counting.
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Oh come on. Give HiFiSoundGuy a break! As far as any of us knows, he's a regular audio enthusiast who hears what he hears. Perhaps he doesn't hear the same things that you or I hear; maybe he listens in instances where you or I would not listen. But he's as entitled to his opinion as the next person, and I'd hate to think we go out of our way to squash others' enthusiasm.
Of course, nobody is obliged to take what he says seriously. But not everything good is serious, and not everything serious is good. When he said he tweaked his clever little clock, I laughed even more than when I read about the astronaut who drove across country in her diaper to confront the lover of her curent lust-object. Thanks for that HiFiSoundGuy. I am truly happy that the clever little clock has brought you so much enjoyment.
Chad
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The CLC seems absurd to me, but to each his own. Very few audiophools can claim high ground here. Just for kicks, try to explain to normal sane (ie non-audiophile aa) folks that the CLC is stupid but that everyone knows cables sound different and a green marker makes your CDs sound better. See how long it takes til you're drowned out by the howls of laughter. :lol:
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The CLC seems absurd to me, but to each his own. Very few audiophools can claim high ground here. Just for kicks, try to explain to normal sane (ie non-audiophile aa) folks that the CLC is stupid but that everyone knows cables sound different and a green marker makes your CDs sound better. See how long it takes til you're drowned out by the howls of laughter. :lol:
Or try telling them that you just got a great deal on a $1700.00 cdp and only paid $785.00 for it.
Or that this
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1176001035
is a good deal
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True lies. Doesn't this whole line of discussion reek of some other shmuck that was selling all kinds of stupid crap a while back? I can't remember his handle, but this is all painfully familiar.
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I'm waiting for the Chinese knockoff of the crock.
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Eric, are you dissin' the Audio Pimp cables? Don't be gettin' ill, dawg, cuz' I'll be gettin' downtown all over your Red ass. These electrical transmission stringers are the shizznit, my electrons are all up in it. Word.
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Eric, are you dissin' the Audio Pimp cables? Don't be gettin' ill, dawg, cuz' I'll be gettin' downtown all over your Red ass. These electrical transmission stringers are the shizznit, my electrons are all up in it. Word.
Audio Pimp-what a racket-they've even got guidelines in there ads what to ask/not ask if you have a question but then they ARE doing us all a favor with those excellent prices.
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Audio Pimp-what a racket-they've even got guidelines in there ads what to ask/not ask if you have a question but then they ARE doing us all a favor with those excellent prices.
How do you think he does it? I've heard things from people in the know I'm not going to post here.
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Audio Pimp feedback.....817 Positive....no Neutral.....no Negative.
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:nono: Its easy to be skepical of a product like this if you have never tried it yet..... :scratch:
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:nono: Its easy to be skepical of a product like this if you have never tried it yet..... :scratch:
Why would trying it make one any less skeptical?
Seeing as our subjective perception isn't always the unerring reflection of the physical reality that we'd like to believe it is, simply because one tries something and subjectively perceives some difference doesn't prove that it's doing anything.
So again, why would trying it make one any less skeptical?
se
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Guys,
I tried putting a bag of frozen peas on the end table in my listening room and this is the shit. Everything sounds right around 22% better.
I can hook you up with these peas (they are special peas) for $100/bag.
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Rather than have an open mind I am rather surprised at the reaction some of you have towards the CLC.
I also hardly think that the people at Postive Feedback can be so easily be conned. So I suppose Shun Mock discs also don't work and are another con? Why shoot the messenger? If you have not tried them are you in any position to comment? Well I am planning to buy 2 CLCs in a couple of months. I will be the first to post here if they do nothing except keep time.
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Hey, I own the CLC, and the pebbles, Geoff is a cool dude, who actually has scientific backup....... :duh: :drool:I used to be like you guy's who have never tried things, but still have opinions. I am NOT that way, nomo :drool:
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Well, if the Clever Little Clock really does work, then there must be all sorts of mods one could do to it to make it even more clever.
There must be a capacitor and resistor or two that could be replaced with Blackgates and Vishays. :wink:
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I also hardly think that the people at Postive Feedback can be so easily be conned.
Is that what you think?
Try this one on for size.
The award in question was given out by writers Dave and Carol Clark (if you go to the article you'll see that it's "The Clark's Brutus and Gizmo Awards for 2006").
Carol Clark has placed photographs of herself (as well as photographs of her audio system) in her freezer and wrote that doing so not only improved the sound of her system, but all the other systems she listened to, even as far away as Las Vegas (she'd attended the CES at the time).
This tweak came to her from the infamous Peter Belt, who claimed:
Each individual human had a fundamental adverse problem imposed on their senses when they had their first photograph taken. A photographic image captures the unique identity of the subject of the photograph but imposes a significant temporal (time) asymmetrical pattern. The action of this photograph radically changed the inner symmetry of the senses of the photographed human being. Fortunately, this debilitating adverse condition is reversible.
To restore a significant temporal (time) symmetry to any person's senses, it is necessary to acquire one photograph which was exposed when the person was young and another photograph exposed when the person was older. Each photograph is placed, individually, into it's own clear plastic bag. The two plastic bags, each containing a spaced time photograph of the same individual, should be placed inside the freezer compartment of the domestic refrigerator.
Geoff Kait, who "invented" the CLC, is also a practitioner (or at least was) of freezing photographs of himself. He wrote on the Peter Belt forum at AOL that the effect changed depending on whether or not there was food in the freezer. He said it sounded better when there was food in the freezer along with the photographs. Another reported that it sounded even better if the food in the freezer was treated with Peter Belt's "Electret Creme."
Well I am planning to buy 2 CLCs in a couple of months. I will be the first to post here if they do nothing except keep time.
Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer? It would cost you a lot less than buying two CLS. And according to Carol Clark and Geoff Kait, it significantly improves the sound of not only your system, but every system you listen to. That's because the tweak "treats" the listener, not the system. That's also the function of the CLC according to Geoff. It treats you, not your system.
se
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I used to be like you guy's who have never tried things, but still have opinions. I am NOT that way, nomo
Have you tried placing photographs of yourself in your freezer yet?
se
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I decided to redact this post. I've already strirred things up too much.
Can't you just click the "Remove" button?
se
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I decided to redact this post. I've already strirred things up too much.
Can't you just click the "Remove" button?
se
Thanks for pointing that out, Steve. Many forums don't allow you to delete posts.
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I also hardly think that the people at Postive Feedback can be so easily be conned.
Is that what you think?
Try this one on for size.
The award in question was given out by writers Dave and Carol Clark (if you go to the article you'll see that it's "The Clark's Brutus and Gizmo Awards for 2006").
Carol Clark has placed photographs of herself (as well as photographs of her audio system) in her freezer and wrote that doing so not only improved the sound of her system, but all the other systems she listened to, even as far away as Las Vegas (she'd attended the CES at the time).
This tweak came to her from the infamous Peter Belt, who claimed:
Each individual human had a fundamental adverse problem imposed on their senses when they had their first photograph taken. A photographic image captures the unique identity of the subject of the photograph but imposes a significant temporal (time) asymmetrical pattern. The action of this photograph radically changed the inner symmetry of the senses of the photographed human being. Fortunately, this debilitating adverse condition is reversible.
To restore a significant temporal (time) symmetry to any person's senses, it is necessary to acquire one photograph which was exposed when the person was young and another photograph exposed when the person was older. Each photograph is placed, individually, into it's own clear plastic bag. The two plastic bags, each containing a spaced time photograph of the same individual, should be placed inside the freezer compartment of the domestic refrigerator.
Geoff Kait, who "invented" the CLC, is also a practitioner (or at least was) of freezing photographs of himself. He wrote on the Peter Belt forum at AOL that the effect changed depending on whether or not there was food in the freezer. He said it sounded better when there was food in the freezer along with the photographs. Another reported that it sounded even better if the food in the freezer was treated with Peter Belt's "Electret Creme."
Well I am planning to buy 2 CLCs in a couple of months. I will be the first to post here if they do nothing except keep time.
Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer? It would cost you a lot less than buying two CLS. And according to Carol Clark and Geoff Kait, it significantly improves the sound of not only your system, but every system you listen to. That's because the tweak "treats" the listener, not the system. That's also the function of the CLC according to Geoff. It treats you, not your system.
se
You're making this up right? Or tell me it was an April Fools joke. Please
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Rather than have an open mind I am rather surprised at the reaction some of you have towards the CLC.
I also hardly think that the people at Postive Feedback can be so easily be conned. So I suppose Shun Mock discs also don't work and are another con? Why shoot the messenger? If you have not tried them are you in any position to comment? Well I am planning to buy 2 CLCs in a couple of months. I will be the first to post here if they do nothing except keep time.
Don't forget to set the clock to the right time. With two maybe you might have to divide the correct time to 44 and 1/2 minutes past Machina Dynamica time.
"The time displayed by the CLC should be (approx) 99 minutes ahead of EDT (Eastern Daylightsavings Time); I mispoke in my last post - I meant to say EDT not EST.
In California it's what, 8:30 AM Pacific Daylightsavings Time? Then you should set the clock for 12:09 PM.
One feature of the CLC is that it is set for a time in the future, later than the local time. I set the two AK test clocks here prior to shipping; thus anyone receiving one of the test clocks, whether he is in the US or Canada, will receive it already set "correctly" to a time later than his local time.
Overseas shipments are a little more complicated...Smile
Hope this clears things up a bit...
Regards, Geoff"
Ever heard the saying "What a crock of shit"?
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You're making this up right? Or tell me it was an April Fools joke. Please
Sorry. I'd love to help you out here, but I'm afraid I can't. T'is true.
se
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I was wondering when someone would bring up Peter Belt's theories. Well I have not been able to find a picture of myself when I was much younger so I can say I have not tried freezing my images.
Now tell me what do you have to lose? If its crap you can tell the world. If its not, I would think you would NOT tell the world lest anyone who reads your post thinks you have really gone off your rocker. Well I have tried some other little things (I have not bought anything as yet) and jumping jellyfish they do work. Its all in my mind? Not if some vistors noticed the change and they have no idea what magical mumbo jumbo I have performed in the background and I have no intention of telling them either.
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Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer?
Hmmmm.....how cold does the freezer have to be ? :wink:
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The Clever Little Clocks won an Award here.... http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue28/brutus.htm
Attention all AC members. It's has become clear to me that Soundideas is back under another name!
Sing Hallelujah :banana piano:
Happy Days are here again. :beer:
PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE SONICROCKS
D.B.
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Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer?
Hmmmm.....how cold does the freezer have to be ? :wink:
What about freezing pictures of the clever little clock? :scratch:
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Instead of messing around with Pebbles, Clocks and Freezing photos it might be more beneficial if these people would pull their head out of their butts. I suspect that you can hear better that way but I could be wrong.
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Hey, I own the CLC, and the pebbles, Geoff is a cool dude, who actually has scientific backup....... :duh: :drool:I used to be like you guy's who have never tried things, but still have opinions. I am NOT that way, nomo :drool:
Would you be willing to send your clock out on an AC tour? I am sure there will be a bunch including me who will be willing to pay the postage to check it out.
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I don't want to check out the clock myself but after reading this thread and laughing my ass loose, I would be very eager to read the reviews. Laughter is reputed to be the best medicine and I anticipate a generous dosage following the observations of our panel of testers.
As audiophiles, we always claim it is all about the music but our behavior says otherwise. We all have the music but we are not willing or able to stop there. We are driven to pursue an ever better high, a more intense dosage, a greater experience. If we become content, we become inactive audiophiles. This, it seems to me, is the dynamic that makes some of us vulnerable to the Clever Little Clock and all of us vulnerable to other gizmology that is only slightly less ludicrous. So, while I snicker and sneer at this little fraud in the front row of detractors, I cannot ignore my own stupid choices made when I was more ambitious about the fantasy and less discriminating about my expenditures.
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has anyone reading this taken up May Belt on her offer of free foil?
I did.
i'm a sucker for tweaks but have to admit the foil did nothing. What was absolutely wild about the whole experience is that May (PWB) sends you the complete price list of their products....their shit isn't cheap whatsoever and they sell over 50 indiv products. One tiny jar of some crazy cream cost over $300, a green pen to write your name with costs $85, safety pins with your name on them cost $40 each, and so on.... Literally, i could spend a few thousand $'s 'tweaking' the PWB way, and basically all i've done is practice my signature - many of their tweaks involve YOU and not your stereo. I wish i still had the price list, i'd post it here.
i must admit though that all the foil i 'installed' is still in place...i'm a sucker for stickers too.
May Belt's posts at audioasylum are always a hoot...
just thought i'd share this, until this morning i didn't realize the CLC was a PWB creation...
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By awarding that stupid clock, Positive Feedback hurts its credibility with me rather than adding to the Clock's credibility, which I imagine was their intention.
HiFiSoundGuy was sent here to antagonize, entertain or demean us. Can't tell which but nothing he has to say will ever be taken seriously by this reader. I have too much experience with value, reality, products and function to fall for such nonsense.
Reading questions and comments in various audio forums makes me aware that many fundamental misunderstandings exist in audio. But most of it is failed logic or just confusion conferred by advertising or intiated by the likewise confused. This instance represents outright fraud in my opinion. Like religion, it traffics in subjective or unverifiable claims that cannot be disproven. Certain unfortunate persons exist who see the failure to disprove as being a form of proof. These fools are the customer base for stuff like the clock.
So if your religous your a fool,You have just insulted the majority of the world.Feeling better now.Maybe if you had religion you would be more tolerate of other peoples choices.
rollo
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Isn't it enough that I tolerate your spelling and grammar?
The rules here forbid religious discussion so I don't think I can elaborate for your edification. Suffice it to say that the majority of the nation thinks McDonalds is food and that Bose makes great speakers. All the majority brings to any discussion is numbers.
My 16 year old son was involved with a young lady whose parents are quite religious. She wanted to talk about it but Dewey was unwilling. Finally he told her that god is an imaginary friend for adults. I was very proud of him for displaying that degree of perception so young. They split up.
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Whoa, fellas! Don't derail the train now.
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Yes, please keep this topic on the current ridiculous course it's already on :icon_lol:
DB mentioned that 'HiFiSoundGuy' is the re-incarnation of 'soundideas' (who posted much like HiFISoundGuy does in content and style)....but doing a little IP search seems inconclusive to reach that conclusion.
Tho they are both based in the US, their IP's are different and they live about 1000 miles from one another in different states.
Soooo, what we have here seems to be a soundideas sound-alike, but not the same individual. Unless soundideas physically moved sometime in the past 6 months.
Just thought y'all might like to know :wink:
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I agree. I don't see where macrojack's statement necessarily leads to rollo's conclusion, but let's leave that out of this CLC discussion.
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Isn't it enough that I tolerate your spelling and grammar?
The rules here forbid religious discussion so I don't think I can elaborate for your edification. Suffice it to say that the majority of the nation thinks McDonalds is food and that Bose makes great speakers. All the majority brings to any discussion is numbers.
My 16 year old son was involved with a young lady whose parents are quite religious. She wanted to talk about it but Dewey was unwilling. Finally he told her that god is an imaginary friend for adults. I was very proud of him for displaying that degree of perception so young. They split up.
Macrojack,
I didn.t insult you,sorry I'm not an english major.As far as religious discussion is concerned you brought it up.If you want to make it personal thats your choice.You can elaborate in the fight club,so you can educate me.For Dewey a closed mind dosn't show perception it shows ignorance but at least likes girls.
rollo
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Perhaps Hifisoundguy is just an admirer who is imitating the style and lack of substance he appreciates.
How is a stupid individual to know he is stupid? Everything he says makes sense to him and he thinks others are stupid for failing to agree. He may even have a tendency to extrapolate on harmless comments or illustrations enough to find a reason to feel insulted. When this occurs, I seek high ground and coffe grounds.
It's a Kona blend this morning.
Relevant to the subject of tweaks, I notice that the comment usually states that the listener(s) can hear a difference. The implication, though conspicuously not stated, has it that this difference is an improvement. Seldom are the improvements described or detailed. Same with mods. I notice people proclaiming that something has been modded as if that, in and of itself, has meaning or value. Likewise I have seen comments declaring that the writer can hardly wait to get his hands on product X so he can mod it.
To me that is like pouring salt all over your food without even tasting it. Shouldn't you know the starting point before you make adjustments? Can I get a witness?
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Yes, please keep this topic on the current ridiculous course it's already on :icon_lol:
DB mentioned that 'HiFiSoundGuy' is the re-incarnation of 'soundideas' (who posted much like HiFISoundGuy does in content and style)....but doing a little IP search seems inconclusive to reach that conclusion.
Tho they are both based in the US, their IP's are different and they live about 1000 miles from one another in different states.
Soooo, what we have here seems to be a soundideas sound-alike, but not the same individual. Unless soundideas physically moved sometime in the past 6 months.
Just thought y'all might like to know :wink:
Ah, but the spirit of Soundideas lives on, as we have all been witness to that spirit roaming the threads here at AC.
VIVA SOUNDIDEAS!
d.b.
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One of Peter Belt's creations according to Stereophile:
" Two different sizes of safety pin, medium and large, each with a bolt, a nut, and several metal washers at its pivot point. The small one clips to your shirt, to treat one's self. The large one can be fastened to the carpet of an automobile to "correct" the sound of its audio system. I was also told that you can attach these to anything—the drapes, a bed pillow, the family cat, in order to improve anything from the sound of your audio system to the taste of your breakfast cereal."
http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/110/
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I don't feel safe following this any further without Rod Serling.
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I don't feel safe following this any further without Rod Serling.
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/product.html
(http://mandatemedia.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/twilightzone.gif)
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Where do I go to rescind my Audiophile card?
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Where do I go to rescind my Audiophile card?
Exactly
"Brown Ties assembly for Upholstery Curtains Carpets - CCU
A CCU Ring Tie on a safety pin should be attached to all curtains, all carpets and upholstery throughout a building.
Another very advantage place to attach a CCU Ring Tie on a safety pin is to upholstery, particularly underneath the cushion of the chair you sit in. Try the following experiment. Pin the CCU Ring Tie underneath the cushion you normally sit on, listen for a short time, then sit on another cushion which does not have a CCU Ring Tie attached and listen again. You will find that you do not now enjoy the music as much and you will not experience the true beneficial effect until you again sit on the cushion which has the CCU Ring Tie attached. "
Where is Chuck Josephson when we need him?? :green:
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Try the following experiment. Pin the CCU Ring Tie underneath the cushion you normally sit on, listen for a short time, then sit on another cushion which does not have a CCU Ring Tie attached and listen again. You will find that you do not now enjoy the music as much and you will not experience the true beneficial effect until you again sit on the cushion which has the CCU Ring Tie attached. "
Um, isn't the reason we sit where we normaly sit when we listen to music because we enjoy music more sitting there than sitting in the other places we could sit? :duh:
se
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This raises another concern. If you visit a dealer to audition products, you'll have to check out the entire room to be sure he hasn't artificially enhanced the performance of his products by hiding pins all around.
As if the dots weren't a big enough problem. Now I have to worry about pins and foil and frozen photographs.
Is this voodoo?
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This raises another concern. If you visit a dealer to audition products, you'll have to check out the entire room to be sure he hasn't artificially enhanced the performance of his products by hiding pins all around.
As if the dots weren't a big enough problem. Now I have to worry about pins and foil and frozen photographs.
Is this voodoo?
Does the dealer's gear sound better in the showroom if your pictures are in your freezer or does the dealer have to have his pictures in a freezer for it to sound better? Would the freezer have to be in the showroom or could his pictures be at home in his freezer? What if you stuck YOUR pictures in HIS freezer? :scratch:
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...I don't see where macrojack's statement necessarily leads to rollo's conclusion, but let's leave that out of this CLC discussion.
i do. someone very close to me got thrown off this site for making these kinds of comments. :wink:
but i'm w/macrojack here. woodsyi, you don't even have to bother letting me know if i wanna audition your rig w/the clc. i am not interested even a little bit. total waste of time, imo. close minded? i don't think so. i am just not a sucker.
regards...
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Does the dealer's gear sound better in the showroom if your pictures are in your freezer or does the dealer have to have his pictures in a freezer for it to sound better? Would the freezer have to be in the showroom or could his pictures be at home in his freezer? What if you stuck YOUR pictures in HIS freezer? :scratch:
I have two freezers... :scratch:
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Does the dealer's gear sound better in the showroom if your pictures are in your freezer or does the dealer have to have his pictures in a freezer for it to sound better? Would the freezer have to be in the showroom or could his pictures be at home in his freezer? What if you stuck YOUR pictures in HIS freezer? :scratch:
I have two freezers... :scratch:
So when you sell a customer something, do they have to give you their pictures with their payment for you to put in your freezer in order for the gear to sound better when they get it home" :scratch:
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Well, of course........why didn't that occur to me? You would need two freezers for stereo. And you home theatre people -- I don't see you getting by with fewer than 5 freezers.
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Does the dealer's gear sound better in the showroom if your pictures are in your freezer or does the dealer have to have his pictures in a freezer for it to sound better? Would the freezer have to be in the showroom or could his pictures be at home in his freezer? What if you stuck YOUR pictures in HIS freezer? :scratch:
I have two freezers... :scratch:
So If you need two freezers does that make you schizophrenic?
d.b.
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Does this kind of remind you of the EPR paradox and entanglement stuff?
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So when you sell a customer something, do they have to give you their pictures with their payment for you to put in your freezer in order for the gear to sound better when they get it home" :scratch:
Only if she's good looking... 8)
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Well, of course........why didn't that occur to me? You would need two freezers for stereo. And you home theatre people -- I don't see you getting by with fewer than 5 freezers.
Are the freezers themselves cryo'ed with freezers manufactured with cry'oed parts made with cryo'ed tools? :scratch:
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Well, of course........why didn't that occur to me? You would need two freezers for stereo. And you home theatre people -- I don't see you getting by with fewer than 5 freezers.
This is why I'm not into multi-channel... :duh:
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Yes, the clocks are a Peter Belts Product, they took a few of belts products and put them on the clocks. That large dot on the front of the clock has a big effect and is called Orgone Energy. The clock is allowing for the accumulation of orgone energy. Hence the increase of the vestigial within the listening room or confines of the home. Outside of those walls there would no containment so no affect. http://skepdic.com/orgone.html
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I have wondered if anyone has measured the effects of feng shui on audio performance... :scratch:
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Yes, the clocks are a Peter Belts Product, they took a few of belts products and put them on the clocks. That large dot on the front of the clock has a big effect and is called Orgone Energy. The clock is allowing for the accumulation of orgone energy. Hence the increase of the vestigial within the listening room or confines of the home. Outside of those walls there would no containment so no affect. http://skepdic.com/orgone.html
As a physicist, i hope you posted this as a joke...
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C,mon, TheChairGuy. It's time to pull the plug on this nonsense.
Why is that Tvad? This is all just a little harmless fun amongst audio geeks. Why moderate to death the fun posts that offend nobody?
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This is text from the Orgone site....hilarious!
Reich claimed that orgone energy is omnipresent and accounts for such things as the color of the sky, gravity, galaxies, the failure of most political revolutions, and a good orgasm. In living beings, orgone is called bio-energy or Life Energy. Reich believed that orgone energy is "demonstrable visually, thermically, electroscopically and by means of Geiger-Mueller counters."* However, only true believers in orgone energy (i.e., orgonomists practicing the science of orgonomy) have been able to find success with the demonstrations.
Reich claimed to have created a new science (orgonomy) and to have discovered other entities, such as bions, which to this day only orgonomists can detect. Bions are alleged vesicles of orgone energy which are neither living nor non-living, but transitional beings.
Reich died on November 3, 1957, in the Federal Penitentiary at Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, where he was sent for criminal contempt. The criminal charge was levied because Reich refused to obey an injunction against selling quack medical devices such as the Orgone Accumulator and orgone "shooters," devices which allegedly could collect and distribute orgone energy, thereby making possible the cure for just about any medical disorder except, perhaps, megalomania and self-delusion.
The Food and Drug Administration not only declared that there is no such thing as orgone energy, they had some of Reich's books burned—a sure-fire way to ignite interest in somebody.
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From the same site, more about the guy who "discovered" Orgone Energy:
"Wilhelm Reich was the scientist who discovered orgone energy and developed the science of Orgonomy. He was born in 1897 and died in 1957. His scientific work spans the period from the 1920's through the 1950's. He spend most of his life scientifically researching the basic truth that underlies the character makeup of man and how it relates to his environment. It may take years for the knowledge discovered by him to be accepted as it was for Galileo to have the world understand that everything did not revolve around the Earth in space. Orgonomy is the scientific study of orgone (life energy) energy in living organisms, the earth, and the atmosphere as well as outer space. Orgone energy is best described as a pre-atomic (mass-free) energy. Its natural flow is vital to a healthy individual as well as life on earth.
Orgonomy is a science created by Dr. Wilhelm Reich who lived in Austria, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, New York, and finally Rangeley, Maine from 1944-1957 until his death. Orgonomy covers many topics but begins with the theories of neurosis in humans as they are related to the natural flow of life energy being blocked in the body by traumatic experiences in life. Many also caused sexual impotency. Dr. Reich worked closely with Sigmund Freud during this work and the results are written in his books "The Function of the Orgasm - 1927" and "Character Analysis - 1933". Vegetative-therapy (Reichian therapy) was developed and created by Dr. Reich in the 1920's to 1930's and it is used in part by many of the current therapies practiced today such as gestalt therapy, bioenergetics, rolfing therapy, and primal scream therapy to name a few. His study of neurosis was applied to the masses in his work "The Mass Psychology of Fascism - 1933", "People in Trouble - 1936" and also in his books titled "The Invasion of Compulsory Sex-Morality - 1931", "The Sexual Revolution- 1935", "The Murder of Christ - 1951" and "Listen Little Man -1948". His work continued in the area of "The Bion Experiments" -- creation of life from inorganic matter. "His work continued with further studies into orgone energy (also known as chi, prana, and other eastern names). Wilhelm Reich performed several scientific experiments that objectified the presence of orgone energy - "The Cancer Biopathy - 1948". Many of his articles were written in journals including "Annals of the Orgone Institute", "International Journal of Sex-Economy and Orgone Research", "Orgone Energy Bulletin", and "Core" (Cosmic Orgone Engineering).......... as well as the book "Ether God and Devil / Cosmic Superimposition - 1951". He created instruments to accumulate orgone energy (orgone accumulators which speeded up natural healing of the body). He experimented with the reaction of orgone energy with nuclear radiation "The Oranur Experiment - 1951" which demonstrated the significant health dangers of low level radiation. He also created instruments that could return self-regulation to weather (the cloud buster) "Contact With Space - 1957". He did research on the source of ufo's energy, and discovered a motor force from orgone energy. He should be remembered most for his work for children. Through the entire period from the 1920's through the 1950s , he advocated for natural child-birth, natural parenting, self-regulation and for the sexual rights of youth and adults."
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It never ceases to amaze me that engineers expect to get to know and discern everything...
just by showing up in class everytime...
well I'm an engineer. And I know that you never get to know everything!!!
And you for fuck sake never say never!!!
You just don't know it all, you never will...
So to presume that you know it all, that's like telling everyone...
That you believed every word your teacher said... And that is BAD!!!
Imperial (who believes that nobody gets to know it all...)
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Orgone and those of us who live in Oregon (and for those of you who pronounce Oregun 'Oragone') have nothing to do with each other-just clarifying-carry on :D
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Reich claimed that orgone energy is omnipresent and accounts for such things as the color of the sky, gravity, galaxies, the failure of most political revolutions, and a good orgasm.
Perhaps a few CLC's could be useful in the bedroom... :duh:
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C,mon, TheChairGuy. It's time to pull the plug on this nonsense.
Why is that Tvad? This is all just a little harmless fun amongst audio geeks. Why moderate to death the fun posts that offend nobody?
Yup, agreed ETR. As long as it all stays civil, it's doin' just fine. Everybody is entitled to their opinion on audio matters...that's a good bit why this website exists :)
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C,mon, TheChairGuy. It's time to pull the plug on this nonsense.
Why is that Tvad? This is all just a little harmless fun amongst audio geeks. Why moderate to death the fun posts that offend nobody?
Yup, agreed ETR. As long as it all stays civil, it's doin' just fine. Everybody is entitled to their opinion on audio matters...that's a good bit why this website exists :)
Thank you :D
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How the hell did I get from a a pair of Large Advents, a Harmon Kardon receiver and a Pioneer manual TT in 1975 with 200 lps in mine and my brothers bedroom to arguing the merits of some marketing genius' CLC 32 years later? :scratch:
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How the hell did I get from a a pair of Large Advents, a Harmon Kardon receiver and a Pioneer manual TT in 1975 with 200 lps in mine and my brothers bedroom to arguing the merits of some marketing genius' CLC 32 years later? :scratch:
Hummmm, and I bet we say to ourselves that we mature as we get older. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
d.b.
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They talk about Quantum dots (Orgone Energy) here http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/469686.html
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VIVA HifiSound guy!
PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE SONICROCKS!
D.B.
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HFSG - a simple question - do you wish to be taken seriously?
I don't mean this to guide to a particular answer, but your choices from here are to either A) give us something more than quackery to believe you're a real person who listens to audio, or B) face relentless and continuing attacks for being a quack yourself.
See, we've been down this road before with assclowns acting just . . . like . . . you.
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HFSG - a simple question - do you wish to be taken seriously?
I don't mean this to guide to a particular answer, but your choices from here are to either A) give us something more than quackery to believe you're a real person who listens to audio, or B) face relentless and continuing attacks for being a quack yourself.
See, we've been down this road before with assclowns acting just . . . like . . . you.
Hey! Be nice, I really miss soundideas and now that we have a replacement I don't anyone to chase him away!
Now you just kiss and make up,
d.b.
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Mike,
You sound like you haven't made your mind up yet about this guy. I dropped him when he started selling me the merits of Bose. That was before the depth of quackery was unveiled.
The guy has some sort of evangelical dementia that does not have any ability to comprehend resistance. He will remain bombastic, condescending and bellicose as long as we continue to respond to him.
I'm not saying to quit, because the mass malling is entertaining to me, but be aware that there is nothing more than amusement to be gained along this route. He is impenetrably dense and divinely endowed and will remain so until the worms get him. And his orgone.
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Macrojack, with yur persistent BS regarding YUR beloved definitions, I would think you would be more open minded, just like you press other's to be with ZU speakers. JMO, buddy :duh:I just don get it, try it, before yu make assessment's like you do. Try your zu zealousness on AA, High Efficiency(oh, forgot, you have been bombasted there) :drool:Try having an open mind, and trying, before condemning, my friend. :icon_lol: :lol: 8)
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Hey, I own the CLC, and the pebbles, Geoff is a cool dude, who actually has scientific backup....... :duh: :drool:I used to be like you guy's who have never tried things, but still have opinions. I am NOT that way, nomo :drool:
Would you be willing to send your clock out on an AC tour? I am sure there will be a bunch including me who will be willing to pay the postage to check it out.
Are u too cheap fr his 30 day money back guarantee? He would probably pay shipping too!!!! :lol: :nono:
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Instead of messing around with Pebbles, Clocks and Freezing photos it might be more beneficial if these people would pull their head out of their butts. I suspect that you can hear better that way but I could be wrong.
Hey, I may be an asshle, but, what does that make YOU? :duh:
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I used to be like you guy's who have never tried things, but still have opinions. I am NOT that way, nomo
Have you tried placing photographs of yourself in your freezer yet?
se
Steve, no. I haven't, have you ever tried to have an open mind, and then make your own assessment on an issue, or are you just a little ignorant asswipe? :duh: :drool: :icon_twisted:
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Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer?
Hmmmm.....how cold does the freezer have to be ? :wink:
Colder than a witches tit? cause it's about 20 below with widchill here in chitown right now...... :lol:
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Instead of messing around with Pebbles, Clocks and Freezing photos it might be more beneficial if these people would pull their head out of their butts. I suspect that you can hear better that way but I could be wrong.
I just dunno, cause, most people who hear MY system, tell me it's the BEST audio they have EVER heard....and I keep making it better. Boy, oh boy, I really wanna d biz, with you!!!!!
would you please take my $$$$$ :duh:
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Mr. Klipsch - I can't think what prompted your reference to my Zu speakers but while we're on the subject I should mention that I like my Zu speakers because they are so coherent. I'm sure I would like you better if you were more so. Please work on that.
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They talk about Quantum dots (Orgone Energy) here http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/469686.html
Interesting read.It may work.For the price its worth the try maybe just for giggles.Invite some audio buddies over to check it out.Have afew drinks and let the fun begin.
As far as Organe energy is concerned,it may have its merits it may not.The fact the FDA supressed the idea leads me to believe it probably has merit
rollo.
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Phil,
Informative post.Had no clue what he accomplished.So th FDA burned his BOOKS wow!I guess it wasn't patentable so the drug companies or Corps. couldn't make any profit.Kimo is the only cure for cancer right? Wrong!
Makes me wonder why this mans life work was just thrown away.Now i'm very interested,
THANKS phil
rollo
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Mr. Klipsch - I can't think what prompted your reference to my Zu speakers but while we're on the subject I should mention that I like my Zu speakers because they are so coherent. I'm sure I would like you better if you were more so. Please work on that.
Aplologize, just trying to show you how it feels to be attacked, for NO reason :nono:
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They talk about Quantum dots (Orgone Energy) here http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/469686.html
I'm fine with quantum dots and their explanation of how their chip thingy works makes some sense, but what do quantum dots have to do with orgone energy? Quantum dots are just nanostructures with well defined valence bands. There's no mystery energy involved.
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Can I just lock this now?...checking every couple hours on it yields zero pleasure and lots of head pain :banghead:
This wasn't going anywhere at any time, and now we have 'alotaklipsch' and 'macrojack' taking swiped at one another.
As I said earlier - as long as it stays civil....and it's not, now.
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Yes, the clocks are a Peter Belts Product, they took a few of belts products and put them on the clocks. That large dot on the front of the clock has a big effect and is called Orgone Energy. The clock is allowing for the accumulation of orgone energy. Hence the increase of the vestigial within the listening room or confines of the home. Outside of those walls there would no containment so no affect. http://skepdic.com/orgone.html
Wow; I just caught up on this thread. Here's my $.02: You and anybody else who falls for this anti-scientific nonsense should probably be forced to take a 7th-grade physics course or something similar. What an absolute pile of garbage.
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After COMPLETELY catching-up on the thread, it was obvious my $.02 was not needed (being redundant). But I'll let it stand, and I do hope the moderators tie the knot and drag this stinky heap down to the curb sometime soon.
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Each individual human had a fundamental adverse problem imposed on their senses when they had their first photograph taken. A photographic image captures the unique identity of the subject of the photograph but imposes a significant temporal (time) asymmetrical pattern. The action of this photograph radically changed the inner symmetry of the senses of the photographed human being. Fortunately, this debilitating adverse condition is reversible.
To restore a significant temporal (time) symmetry to any person's senses, it is necessary to acquire one photograph which was exposed when the person was young and another photograph exposed when the person was older. Each photograph is placed, individually, into it's own clear plastic bag. The two plastic bags, each containing a spaced time photograph of the same individual, should be placed inside the freezer compartment of the domestic refrigerator.
:o Yeah, I'll get right on that...
Another very advantage place to attach a CCU Ring Tie on a safety pin is to upholstery, particularly underneath the cushion of the chair you sit in. Try the following experiment. Pin the CCU Ring Tie underneath the cushion you normally sit on, listen for a short time, then sit on another cushion which does not have a CCU Ring Tie attached and listen again. You will find that you do not now enjoy the music as much and you will not experience the true beneficial effect until you again sit on the cushion which has the CCU Ring Tie attached. "
:o I'll get right on that too....
One feature of the CLC is that it is set for a time in the future, later than the local time. I set the two AK test clocks here prior to shipping; thus anyone receiving one of the test clocks, whether he is in the US or Canada, will receive it already set "correctly" to a time later than his local time.
Overseas shipments are a little more complicated...Smile
Hope this clears things up a bit...
:o Uh,um, yeah....ok
I don't think I've ever read stuff that's made me do as much of this in my life.... :duh: :duh: :duh:
Cheers
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Why lock this thread? If I start a thread on Peter Belt will that get locked too? Why not also lock my $1250.00 a second Exxon thread as it has gone off the road into the politics ditch a few times lately and that of course is an AC nono. Just because a couple of people can't play nice here doesn't mean that some of us haven't learned a few things about what absolute bs is out there in audioland. Why even bother reading this thread Tvad? I tend to skip over threads here that don't interest me or think are bs, but maybe that's just me.
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Lock versus not lock is a decision about whether the thread is productive and whether participants will remain respectful of one another rather than the cheap shots I am seeing here. Topics like these are always going to be contentious, but there is a lot of immaturity I am reading.
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Lock versus not lock is a decision about whether the thread is productive and whether participants will remain respectful of one another rather than the cheap shots I am seeing here. Topics like these are always going to be contentious, but there is a lot of immaturity I am reading.
How do you have a mature discussion about this stuff? Some of it is so patently ridiculous that it begs to be made fun of. Some of this garbage deserves a cheap shot and I can't see ANY discussion of the CLC and Peter Belt's beliefs NOT degenerating into something that offends SOMEBODY. You're basically saying that any thread that a few people don't like needs to be locked? Just curious.
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You're basically saying that any thread that a few people don't like needs to be locked? Just curious.
Nope. Your synopsis of our reasoning why we'd like to lock this topic is far too simplistic.
We're saying that any thread that starts off with a contentious title, drones on for 10 pages, has begun a little 'penile' duel between 'macrojack' and 'alotaklipsch' about a topic unrelated to even the contentious one at hand.....means that particular thread is nearing it's death.
We, the Mods here, have to actually wade thru this (increasingly rancorous topic) every so often to make sure it stays focused....and clearly this one is not. Wading thru topics that no longer offer any real beneficial information, assuming this one did to begin, means our eyes are off other parts of this ever-expanding site. Maximizing efficiency of everyone's time is important.
So, have your last say on this subject...for if there isn't one forthcoming that somehow furthers insight here, it's gonna' be locked down.
I hope that's explanation enough for ya' :)...it may not make you happy by it's content, but there is considerably more thought here involved in locking a thread other than 'a few people not liking it'.
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Why not try putting some photographs of yourself in your freezer?
Hmmmm.....how cold does the freezer have to be ? :wink:
Colder than a witches tit? cause it's about 20 below with widchill here in chitown right now...... :lol:
Well.....I guess you won't need a freezer then..... :P
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Well I personally like when people goof off in a thread about a ridiculous topic in the first place but that's just me. Word.
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Well I personally like when people goof off in a thread about a ridiculous topic in the first place but that's just me. Word.
Does this mean that you are not a believer? :o
Nooo-oooo ? :icon_lol:
Imperial
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There are threads on the little clocks on many a forum, the world around these days. I can tell ya!
And some try them, and they work, other also try them, and say they dont work.
I belive somethings that can't be explained, like say "love" is still there, real, but can you explain it? not really.
Can there be things to physics a Cern-wannabe dont know about?
You tell me, when the clock strikes noon we'll hear about it ...
When it strikes midnight...
(http://www.goaste.cx/goaste/pictures/nemi/NEMI017.gif)
What people do to keep their cool, tic toc tic toc...
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well I'm an engineer. And I know that you never get to know everything!!!
And you for fuck sake never say never!!!
Imperial (who believes that nobody gets to know it all...)
'Don't ever say never: Hard times will make a monkey eat red pepper' :D
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Some monkey!
Erik the red, let me tell you about a monkey.
In Norway, we have very famous zoo. About 20 or so years ago a little baby monkey was born there.
It's mother didnt want him! So the caretakers had to bring it home and raise it themselves.
It was all done in full disclosure, on the telly! This little chimp grew up like it was "full house" dude!
So then we went with my class to the zoo that summer, and the zoo manager, named Moseid, by the way, was out carrying his chimp... it had diapers on and was at that time all sweet!
It stole my icecream it did!!! That little chimp!!! This really happened!! :P
So Erik, monkeys dont eat red pepper!!! They steal themselves icecream, thats what they do!!! :D
The monkey is named Julius and is the most famous animal in my country!
Here is the website for him! http://www.dyreparken.com/index.jsp?c=31245
There there!! :thumb:
Imperial
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peter belt's folks mailed me some of their magic tape a while back. after looking thru the lit that came with it, i didn't even bother trying it. close-minded? perhaps, but i think there's a difference between being close-minded about something vs something being just so plain stupid as to warrant ignoring it.
ymmv...
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Phil,
Informative post.Had no clue what he accomplished.So th FDA burned his BOOKS wow!I guess it wasn't patentable so the drug companies or Corps. couldn't make any profit.Kimo is the only cure for cancer right? Wrong!
Makes me wonder why this mans life work was just thrown away.Now i'm very interested,
THANKS phil
rollo
Certainly an interesting guy. But admittedly, I posted the paragraph because I was having a hard time figuring out how any of his work could actually relate to an orange dot on a Timex travel clock, resulting in better sound in an audio system... :scratch:
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Jeoff, we're not fond here on manufacturers dropping in without identification of who they are...and schilling their wares under an alias. Schilling can be done in our Industry Ads area....that's what it's their for :nono: John / Moderator / AudioCentral
That's not entirely true. Schilling has been going on almost non-stop in The Horn Shoppe Circle ever since the beginning! It must be stopped!
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Okay, this topic is cooked (now locked).