AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Empirical Audio => Topic started by: audioengr on 1 Apr 2012, 12:29 am
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This is a culmination of the optimum upgrades to the Overdrive, combined with the new Substation AC, all with a new look. This is the first completely fanless, AC-powered Overdrive. The Overdrive SE has these options standard:
USB Hynes reg
D/A Hynes reg
Turboclock
Fanless
This is the DAC that outperforms Weiss 202, dCS Debussey, Ayre QB-9, PSAudio PWD, LessLoss, Wired for Sound DAC2 and other top contenders. We know this from customer and reviewer feedbacks.
Both the Substation AC and the Overdrive SE have new front panels and a custom knob for the Overdrive. New top covers and heatsink for the Overdrive. The new Overdrive SE package retails for $5999.00
Here are some internal photos of the Overdrive SE and Substation AC:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60431)
The Overdrive analog section is wired point-to-point using cotton-covered OCC silver wire from Japan. The power devices are hanging because they connect to the top heatsink of the chassis. There is a baseboard and two daughterboards. Also notice the BNC input connector. The circuit boards on the Overdrive are silver-plated. More expensive than gold, but worth it. Better solder joints with less contaminants. We are the only audio manufacturer to use silver plating to my knowledge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60432)
As you can see, they are both packed with electronics. The Substation AC is enabled by the Hynes regulators. I could not previously do this kind of supply. It has three high-efficiency switcher modules followed by three Hynes regulators. Sounds better than any supply I have used, including the Monolith. Talk about detail, vocal smoothness as well as slam!!
It has Furutek gold-plated input IEC jack and a grounding thumbscrew on the back. Replaces the original Substation and 3 AC adapters.
More photos of the finished chassis coming soon. This will all be on the website as soon as I get the finished panels and knobs and take pro photos.
This is what I will show at the Newport Beach show June 1,2,3. Great show, don't miss it if you are in CA. We will be in the Atrium Hotel room 239.
Steve N.
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OMG.
[Drooooooooool]
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NICE Steve! Particularly the new substation. One thing I'm curious about, are the switch-mode supplies generally immune to power supply noise and voltage issues, as on other switch-mode components (Class D amps and the like)? That would be an advantage to the toroids and R-cores in the competition. Any downsides to not using those more traditional linear supplies?
Considering the upgrades that's a great price too, undercuts the Weiss, Meitner, Bricasti, etc.
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NICE Steve! Particularly the new substation. One thing I'm curious about, are the switch-mode supplies generally immune to power supply noise and voltage issues, as on other switch-mode components (Class D amps and the like)?
There is some level of voltage variation rejection by the switching supplies. The Hynes Regs also reject noise extremely well.
Any downsides to not using those more traditional linear supplies?
Yes, they are too slow responding, and to match the current capacity of the switchers, the linear supplies would be 10X the size of the Substation. Linears are also very inefficient. Switchers have come a long way in the last 10 years. Many high-end manufacturers are using them now.
Considering the upgrades that's a great price too, undercuts the Weiss, Meitner, Bricasti, etc.
We try not to gouge. We also dont have a staff of sales and marketing guys to pay, and we only sell direct so there is not a lot of margin built-in. Minimal advertising too.
Steve N.
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Gotcha. One other thing I've always wondered, what are the actual DAC chips that you use in the Overdrive? I've always been a fan of quad PCM1704 DACs (Levinson 360, etc), but I assume you're not using an R-2R. I've also seen great results with Analog Devices and AKM Delta Sigmas. Wolfson and Burr Brown, not as much. I don't know why the PCM1792 was so popular for so long.
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Gotcha. One other thing I've always wondered, what are the actual DAC chips that you use in the Overdrive? I've always been a fan of quad PCM1704 DACs (Levinson 360, etc), but I assume you're not using an R-2R. I've also seen great results with Analog Devices and AKM Delta Sigmas. Wolfson and Burr Brown, not as much. I don't know why the PCM1792 was so popular for so long.
That's something that I would rather not divulge publicly.
Steve N.
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Really nice work, Steve!
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This is a culmination of the optimum upgrades to the Overdrive, combined with the new Substation AC, all with a new look. This is the first completely fanless, AC-powered Overdrive. The Overdrive SE has these options standard:
USB Hynes reg
D/A Hynes reg
Turboclock
Fanless
This is the DAC that outperforms Weiss 202, dCS Debussey, Ayre QB-9, PSAudio PWD, LessLoss, Wired for Sound DAC2 and other top contenders. We know this from customer and reviewer feedbacks.
Both the Substation AC and the Overdrive SE have new front panels and a custom knob for the Overdrive. New top covers and heatsink for the Overdrive. The new Overdrive SE package retails for $5999.00
Here are some internal photos of the Overdrive SE and Substation AC:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60431)
The Overdrive analog section is wired point-to-point using cotton-covered OCC silver wire from Japan. The power devices are hanging because they connect to the top heatsink of the chassis. There is a baseboard and two daughterboards. Also notice the BNC input connector. The circuit boards on the Overdrive are silver-plated. More expensive than gold, but worth it. Better solder joints with less contaminants. We are the only audio manufacturer to use silver plating to my knowledge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60432)
As you can see, they are both packed with electronics. The Substation AC is enabled by the Hynes regulators. I could not previously do this kind of supply. It has three high-efficiency switcher modules followed by three Hynes regulators. Sounds better than any supply I have used, including the Monolith. Talk about detail, vocal smoothness as well as slam!!
It has Furutek gold-plated input IEC jack and a grounding thumbscrew on the back. Replaces the original Substation and 3 AC adapters.
More photos of the finished chassis coming soon. This will all be on the website as soon as I get the finished panels and knobs and take pro photos.
This is what I will show at the Newport Beach show June 1,2,3. Great show, don't miss it if you are in CA. We will be in the Atrium Hotel room 239.
Steve N.
I am interested in the SE version of Overdrive, A for entry, F or spelling. Wired For Sound Dac2?
Good fortune with the SE. I started my SE effortless savings account. Please don't raise the price and make it longer to afford one. :)
BHearNow,
Richard
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Looking really good Steve.
Question... On the previous Overdrive, it mentions "wall-type power supplies were chosen for best sound quality. They eliminate the need to purchase a $1200-2K power cord." - Does this new design bring back those $1200-2K power cords? Or have you extensively tested the new Overdrive to minimize the effect of power cords?
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Looking really good Steve.
Question... On the previous Overdrive, it mentions "wall-type power supplies were chosen for best sound quality. They eliminate the need to purchase a $1200-2K power cord." - Does this new design bring back those $1200-2K power cords? Or have you extensively tested the new Overdrive to minimize the effect of power cords?
Good question. I am using a really good power cord with mine, but have not tried the cheap "rubber" one yet. I'll try it today and report back.
Steve N.
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Okay, I did the power cord swap today.
I compared my $1200 silver-plug cord that is my DAC reference and a $12 Home Depot 14Gauge rubber cord, both 6 feet.
The difference is not audible on most tracks. It is tiny on the best tracks. Slightly more HF focus and 3D with the expensive cord. Bass, "liveness", weight, detail and music body are identical. This difference is so small that there is little incentive to spend more than $100 on a cord IMO.
Steve N.
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Okay, I did the power cord swap today.
I compared my $1200 silver-plug cord that is my DAC reference and a $12 Home Depot 14Gauge rubber cord, both 6 feet.
The difference is not audible on most tracks. It is tiny on the best tracks. Slightly more HF focus and 3D with the expensive cord. Bass, "liveness", weight, detail and music body are identical. This difference is so small that there is little incentive to spend more than $100 on a cord IMO.
Steve N.
Thanks for doing that Steve!
Are there any plans for remote control or has that already been done?
I gotta try one of these units some day. :thumb:
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Thanks for doing that Steve!
Are there any plans for remote control or has that already been done?
I gotta try one of these units some day. :thumb:
If it had a remote, you would need two of them, one for selecting music and one for volume.
Better IMO to use an iPad to control both. All you need is about 6dB to adjust for differences in all tracks, so once you have the manual volume set, digital volume works fine without any degradation.
Steve N.
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Hi Steve, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this puppy. Really interesting design: R2R DACs, custom XMOS based USB input, DSP volume control, no I/V conversion, etc. Definitely more expensive than the Overdrive SE, but still an interesting competitor.
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac3/open1.png)
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac3/open2.png)
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Hi Steve, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this puppy. Really interesting design: R2R DACs, custom XMOS based USB input, DSP volume control, no I/V conversion, etc. Definitely more expensive than the Overdrive SE, but still an interesting competitor.
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac3/open1.png)
(http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac3/open2.png)
R2R is a great idea, however in order to do it right, one must use precision resistors and tune all of them. Very expensive and time-consuming.
DSP volume is a bad idea IME. Even the very best static software for changing gain and redithering leaves audible artifacts.
I also see here what appears to be some three-terminal regulators on heatsinks. Also something to avoid.
Wiring is not what I would expect to see in an expensive DAC either, or the use of Molex connectors etc...
Steve N.
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Understood. Yeah there's 100 individual Vishay foil resistors per channel. As I understand it there's a dual differential upgrade available, does that mean 400 resistors? Yikes, that has to take awhile. I was curious because Srajan at 6moons described it as a significant step up from the Meitner and other delta-sigma DACs in the $5-10K class below mega stuff like the DaVinci and MSB Diamond.
(http://6moons.com/audioreviews/totaldac3/closeup1.png)
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Understood. Yeah there's 100 individual Vishay foil resistors per channel. As I understand it there's a dual differential upgrade available, does that mean 400 resistors? Yikes, that has to take awhile. I was curious because Srajan at 6moons described it as a significant step up from the Meitner and other delta-sigma DACs in the $5-10K class below mega stuff like the DaVinci and MSB Diamond.
Is curious to me, the choice of the Vishay resistors. These are great for analog, but the goal here is accuracy, not so much reduction in inductance that is the benefit of the Vishays. I would have chosen .1% thin-film surface-mount resistors for this application.
Steve N.
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That thing looks ridiculous :lol: From everyone I have seen post about the Vishays, they use them along with something else. They never use them everywhere, especially not in this manner. This said, parts are parts and all that really matters is the sound. What is that mess of wires in the smaller box???...looks super fugly and ugly:))
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Yeah certainly not your typical looking outboard power supply. I'm not sure what's going on there.
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Steve,
You said:
"I also see here what appears to be some three-terminal regulators on heatsinks. Also something to avoid."
I think you are mistaken. Here is a link to Vincent's website about his DAC:
http://www.totaldac.com/principles.htm
Go down to the part where he talks about his power supply.
Anyway, I think it looks like a very interesting DAC.
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Some new photos:
Silver:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64690)
Black chassis:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=64692)
I will also offer black front panel and knob with black chassis if there is any interest.
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Steve,
In the thread opener it is mentioned that turbo clock is standard. Is that single or dual turbo clock.
Sanjay
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Beautiful Steve!
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Steve,
In the thread opener it is mentioned that turbo clock is standard. Is that single or dual turbo clock.
Sanjay
There is no single. Turboclocks are all dual.
Steve N.
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Those look fantastic Steve!
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Steve, very sexy looking. As a complete unit does this preclude the other ancillary gear you sell like clocks and converters, etc?
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Big step forward in looks. Reminds me of classic Nagra components; serious and refined.
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Has anybody A/B'ed this latest offering with some of the top tier DAC's out there? I am in the midst of an evaluation process and have a Lynx Hilo and Invicta to audition, with a Medea Plus on its way. So many DACs to choose from these days! Anyway, I read a lot of stuff from Off-Ramp customers, but so few of them have or have tried the OverDrive. Thanks.
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:notworthy: :drums: :rock:
Looks fantastic!
Anand.
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Looks like it means business :thumb:
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Steve, very sexy looking. As a complete unit does this preclude the other ancillary gear you sell like clocks and converters, etc?
The Overdrive SE is stand-alone, if that's what you mean. Nothing else needed.
Steve N.
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Has anybody A/B'ed this latest offering with some of the top tier DAC's out there? I am in the midst of an evaluation process and have a Lynx Hilo and Invicta to audition, with a Medea Plus on its way. So many DACs to choose from these days! Anyway, I read a lot of stuff from Off-Ramp customers, but so few of them have or have tried the OverDrive. Thanks.
Overdrive has been in various reviewer and customer shootouts with:
Ayre QB9
Berkeley Alpha
Weiss 202
Emm Labs
PSAudio PWD
LessLoss
dCS Debussey
Antelope
Apogee
Tranquility
The links for these are on this forum and on my website. Nothing besting it yet.
Steve N.
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The Overdrive SE is stand-alone, if that's what you mean. Nothing else needed.
Steve N.
I was a little confused when I saw this written in the previous dac write-up:
"We put the I2S input on the Overdrive so that it could be driven from the I2S output on our Off-Ramp 4 or Pace-Car USB reclocker. "
So I wasn't sure if those devices were built in or not required if using a computer as a source with the new dac.
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I was a little confused when I saw this written in the previous dac write-up:
"We put the I2S input on the Overdrive so that it could be driven from the I2S output on our Off-Ramp 4 or Pace-Car USB reclocker. "
So I wasn't sure if those devices were built in or not required if using a computer as a source with the new dac.
People with Pace-Cars used with Qsonix or Sonos etc., will need I2S into Overdrive. I may eventually design a version of Synchro-Mesh with I2S output as well, but the S/PDIF is so good that the motivation is not strong.
The USB interface on the Overdrive SE is better than the OR4 and OR5, so not too interesting to use that combo.
Steve N.
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Steve,
When do you think you can publish the measurements on this dac?
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Steve,
When do you think you can publish the measurements on this dac?
Unfortunately, the measurements which are made by a pro measurement company are made using the SPDIF input, so they dont get the benefit of the low-jitter USB interface. Also, they dont use hi-res files for their measurements. Therefore, even though the measurements are very good, they dont really reflect the ultimate performance of the Overdrive.
Because of this, I'm not too thrilled about putting down another $1K to get more measurements done. They might be a bit better, but again it does not reflect the real performance.
The only way to get a true sense of this IMO is to put a deposit down and demo the Overdrive SE.
Steve N.
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For anyone considering investing in a high quality DAC and is fortunate enough to be invited by Steve to visit him in Black Butte Ranch, OR, do take him up on the offer. I found Steve to be very transparent, easy going and open to discussing any aspect of his craft. He never seemed to tire of the dialogue, and like a professor addressed my questions with a clear understanding. The visit was exceedingly educational and necessary to make an informed decision.
What struck me was how small the DAC actually is and how meticulous he is engineering a quality product…of the finest material and workmanship. I did not visit Steve with the intent of writing this response, nor do I write reviews or am associated with Steve or the industry. How I judge and interpret music may be vastly different than anyone reading this.
In my opinion the stock Overdrive SE is a stellar product in itself. Hearing the addition of the Final Drive Transformer Buffer, I believe this is a *must purchase* product offered at a very reasonable price. I would value this far above all other upgrades. Personally, I will be using this in place of my Pre-amp. The difference was hearing what my brain interprets as a live performance in Steve’s listening room. The volume control of the SE attenuates the amplitude creating an effect where I am not just lowering the volume, I am moving the performance away, 10, 30, 50 feet away. The depth and detail was still there regardless of volume. Steve has a good explanation for this. Distortion remains a small fraction of the sound, so at any volume you do not interpret it.
As for the Short-Block USB filter. I have difficulty describing the quality of the improvement. It was more detailed and crisp, but there was something more. For $200, in IMO the best per dollar benefit to your system.
Regarding the Overdrive SE stock vs. upgraded Analog Hynes Regulators and CUTF coupling caps: My impression was Steve himself preferred stock over the upgrades. The differences were subtle for rock performances, with stock giving a more stage presence allowing my visceral experience of being at a Bonnie Raitt concert. Personally, for what I listen to, I much preferred the upgrades. To me this sounded like the performer was 5 – 10 feet away with a very real 3d effect. I would move to different aspects of the room and that person is still playing in the same spot. The other detail I would sense is when a musician will pluck a chord flat or not. Very often at musical events that are really impressive, I close my eyes and enjoy the music. Eyes closed, this performance seemed no difference. Also, if you enjoy piano, go with the upgrades…I have never heard piano in any reference system sound like this.
The question I asked myself is $2500 in upgrades worth the investment? Final Drive, yes. It made a profound difference on Steve’s system. USB filter…for the price, absolutely. The Hynes regulators and CUTF caps warrant a visit and listening for yourself. Neither one sounded better than the other. They sound different and depending on your taste, you will prefer one. My impression: if you enjoy a small intimate venue or acoustical music, go with the upgrades. If you like larger venues…go stock.
This dac is the culmination of experience from a talented engineer devoted and passionate about his field.
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Steve,
How would you incorporate the First Drive Transformer Buffer, if you only an have integrated amplifier? Any pics of this First Drive Transformer, yet?
Thanks
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Steve,
How would you incorporate the First Drive Transformer Buffer, if you only an have integrated amplifier? Any pics of this First Drive Transformer, yet?
Thanks
FINAL Drive can be used with an integrated. It can be used with ANY DAC or CDP. It is not a volume control. No pics yet. I will get some prelim pictures posted here ASAP. Panels coming today, but not finished panels.
Steve N.
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Ketcham - thanks for the informative post, and really enjoyed having you and your significant other. Also, thanks for bringing your Bidat.
First time I had seen a Bidat and heard one. Not too bad when driven by an Off-Ramp 5. I did not realize that it would not do even 96.
BTW, I think I like the fully optioned Overdrive SE best, even though the standard one may have a tiny bit more slam.
Steve N.
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Steve,
Any idea why black gates stopped manufacturing caps and with a limited supply left what will replace them and sonically how does that change the dac? Black gates mods in my bidar makes a world of difference.
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Steve,
Any idea why black gates stopped manufacturing caps and with a limited supply left what will replace them and sonically how does that change the dac? Black gates mods in my bidar makes a world of difference.
I think it was just a limited market for Black Gates. They still make caps, but not Black Gates anymore.
I will still be using Black Gates for some digital power and signal applications, but for the ones used in the Overdrive SE analog section I will eventually run out of them.
I believe that a certain Panasonic cap that will replace them will be just as good, maybe even better because it is a larger value. We will see when we get there. So far, it is performing well in the Substation.
Steve N.
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Are the cutf caps used in place of the black gates in the upgrades or just one portion of the dac and the Panasonic caps will be used as well?
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Are the cutf caps used in place of the black gates in the upgrades or just one portion of the dac and the Panasonic caps will be used as well?
CUTF caps are used for analog signal coupling, not for power supply.
The Panasonics will replace the Black Gates in the analog section power supplies.
Steve N.
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Steve, can you talk a little more about the Final Drive and what it does?
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Steve, can you talk a little more about the Final Drive and what it does?
Sure. You can think of it as a transformer linestage with no volume control, just 2 gain settings: 0dB and +6dB. There are selectable RCA, XLR1 and XLR2 inputs and RCA and XLR outputs, only on output active at a time.
The Final Drive has the following benefits in ANY system:
1) Galvanically isolates the grounds of the source and amplifiers, breaking that ground-loop
2) Creates a truly balanced electrical signal for balanced amps - solid-state balanced circuits try to do this, but fail
3) Converts RCA to XLR and XLR to RCA so you can bring-in a RCA phono preamp or drive tube amps
4) Allows Home Theater passthrough to the amps
The truly balanced behavior is extremely important. This guarantees that the + and - signals are identical in amplitude (impossible with SS) and that there is no common-mode or differential DC offset on either of the signals.
Like our other products, we are making this best-of-class, using the latest Finemet transformer technology from Japan, Swiss Elma selection switches with heavy-gold contact plating and pure continuous cast silver wire with cotton insulation. It beats even the most expensive Transformer linestages.
It will have the same casework as the Overdrive SE DAC.
Steve N.
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So it's basically a fancy Jensen Transformer. Do you actually use the Jensens?
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/index.html
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So it's basically a fancy Jensen Transformer. Do you actually use the Jensens?
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/index.html
Not even close. Refresh and look at the post above.
Steve N.
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i was reading User Manual of overdrive SE
and i noticed that it says there is a delay in the power output of RCA outputs
what does this mean exactly?
isn't any kind of delay/latency supposed to be a bad thing?
_______________________________________ ______________
5.3. RCA – Single-ended outputs
The RCA outputs are designed to drive a preamp, amplifier or high-impedance
headphones. These are AC-coupled, so there is a delay in the power output from them
on power-on in order that the DC voltage settle-out.
_______________________________________ _______________________
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i was reading User Manual of overdrive SE
and i noticed that it says there is a delay in the power output of RCA outputs
what does this mean exactly?
isn't any kind of delay/latency supposed to be a bad thing?
_______________________________________ ______________
5.3. RCA – Single-ended outputs
The RCA outputs are designed to drive a preamp, amplifier or high-impedance
headphones. These are AC-coupled, so there is a delay in the power output from them
on power-on in order that the DC voltage settle-out.
_______________________________________ _______________________
This is a 2 second delay only on power-up. It is to protect the downstream electronics (preamps/amps) from glitches. There is no audible delay in the electronics during playback.
Steve N.
Steve N.
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thank you for the answer steve
i have also found this statement
________________________________
7. RCA to Phone-jack Headphone adapter – only high-impedance headphones supported
_________________________________
it seems that headphone amp of overdrive is designed to drive high-impedance headphones
i have low-impedance headphones like grado rs-1, grado hp1000, and several IEM's
would i need a separate headphone amplifier to drive these phones with Overdrive?
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thank you for the answer steve
i have also found this statement
________________________________
7. RCA to Phone-jack Headphone adapter – only high-impedance headphones supported
_________________________________
it seems that headphone amp of overdrive is designed to drive high-impedance headphones
i have low-impedance headphones like grado rs-1, grado hp1000, and several IEM's
would i need a separate headphone amplifier to drive these phones with Overdrive?
Yes. Grados are usually in the 40 ohm range, so the bass would suffer.
Steve N.
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Yes. Grados are usually in the 40 ohm range, so the bass would suffer.
Steve N.
oh man... it's kind of bummer that overdrive can not be one device solution for my grado cans
sorry im not very familiar with audio technology stuff
do you think high impedance resister adapter can be used to drive lower impedance headphones?
or do you just recommend to get a separate headphone amp?
also, could you tell me what it exactly means that the bass would suffer
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oh man... it's kind of bummer that overdrive can not be one device solution for my grado cans
sorry im not very familiar with audio technology stuff
do you think high impedance resister adapter can be used to drive lower impedance headphones?
or do you just recommend to get a separate headphone amp?
also, could you tell me what it exactly means that the bass would suffer
I recommend a good tube headamp. The bass will be thin with low-impedance headphones.
Steve N.
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I would like to share with everybody my recent experiences with the new Empirical Audio Overdrive SE
Background:
I have played classical music since age 8 (chamber, solo, orchestra, professional training) and since 2006 I have been on a continuous mission to find and enjoy better and better reproduction. This has resulted in about 5 different systems that all are very high standard. For the purpose of this review I have the configuration:
Speakers: MEG Geithain 803k with stands from same manufacturer (filled with sand) Link: http://me-geithain.de/highend/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=93&lang=en
Cables DAC-> MEG Geithain: Funk B-120 XLR cables from the extremely honest and skilled house of Thomas Funk, Berlin http://www.funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/B-120-Info.pdf
DAC: Empirical Audio Overdrive SE
PC: Windows 7 64bit
Player: Foobar (newest version)
Comparator DACs: Weiss DAC202 + Clock EmpiricalAudio Pacecar Ultraclock= reference, W4Sound DAC2=good, Benchmark= less so, Aqvox= less so
Current: PS Audio Powerplant10: Link: http://www.psaudio.com/products/power/pw-power-plants/p10-power-plant/
Cables and Power distributors : Furutech
The owner and brain of empirical audio Steve promised a lot on his website, a lot of words. We live in a jungle filled with pseudoscience, real science, facts, myths, figures and havent we read it all. Steve has a mission that is clear, but is it B.S. served to misguide needy audiophiles ? There is an army of suppliers who have this business strategy, yet they just reassemble standard components from the same basic manufacturers and add the superlatives, no more. So what is reality with Overdrive SE?
My philosophy:
Listening is a compounded experience where my non-expert , yet experimental journey has resulted in the following optimization points that determine the overall experience in an audible fashion. many small changes = big experience.
a. Electricity (hence powerplant10 from PSaudio, which created firm, tight, crystal clear kind of sound waves, and you can see the distortion it eliminates on the panel from minute to minute, how cool) also the Furutech cables and distributors are important. ALL FROM ONE SOURCE ! everything powered by P10. Also: checked the phases , another important point, audible.
b. Conversion of digital to audio: here the Overdrive SE comes in
c. Decoupling of LS: Since the Geithain 803Ks have the amazing karitoid properties (see diagram at bottom: http://me-geithain.de/highend/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=94&lang=en ) there is minimal need for back of LS dampening, bass control etc. but for example filling the sand into the stands from geithain meant a lot, all energy pouring down in the floor and hitting your ear way before the sound via airways hits you was a very audible improvement
d. Source: music will never be better than recording, resolution etc.
Overdrive SE:
Having optimized the very good WeissDAC202 with the empirical audio Pacecar with Ultraclocks (now not produced anymore apparantly, but very good product) indicated that Steve is producing something the world needs. Steve describes his products to deliver a "smooth", "vinyl like" sound that in an non-upsampled fashion creates a wonderfull experience. For any product to improve the wonderfull DAC202 is an achievement , and the Pacecar clearly brought the sound in the direction of Steves words.
The Overdrive SE is the true embodyment of this direction. Bottom line is that EVERYTHING Steve promised has held true. After many many listening hours, alone and with audio knowledgable friends with deep roots in many camps (electronica, pop, rock, classic etc.) there is no doubt that the Overdrive SE trumps the Weiss DAC202 even with the addition of the pace car. For the technique focused people please see all the measurements of the 2 DACs on their websites, I also believe very much in measurements , in the placebo-effect of the audio field, and of all kinds of illusions and selfdeceptions. So how do I come to this conclusion: The overdrive SE makes Digital music into MUSIC. The difference between a synthesizer from the 80´s (not George Moroder , he is wonderfull artist) cannot be compared to the piano. The piano is an almost organic source of multiple impressions, not only the pure music, but also the sounds from pedals, the handling of the actual "keyboard" etc etc. When listening to the overdrive you simply abandon PLANET DIGITAL and arrive at PLANET MUSIC. I noticed how I simply kept listening , kept listening for so long time, no impatience to hear the next track, almost like you dont want to stop the artist playing, its rude - maybe the degree of reality connects to social reflect of conduct, I dont know, I am just passing this on as an observation, Jitter reduction ? I do not know. Other features that are remarkable: Dynamics, black background (partly helped by the P10 for sure), what Steve calls "Slam" and "Punch", the bass is remarkable "human" with character (think of the drums in hotel california (Eagles), or Love Songs (Diana Krall)). And yes it has this vinyl like quality , but I would say Vinyl Plus, as it has a very pleasant silky yet realistic sound, pretty much like live opera or chansons also have in my experience.
The looks of the overdrive SE in real life is actually very elegant as a piece of modern technology, the aesthetics also matter, so not only is it a small double device but it has the feel of the old Porsches, the silver one that James Dean died in (Link: http://bit.ly/QpoDna) , in the tradition of Braun radios (Link: http://bit.ly/Tmqypq) and so on, its very cool. (it also gets semihot on the top, but that doesnt matter) . The occasional crackle and click when the Overdrive SE changes bit-rate or whatever it does adds to the semi-mechanic industrial feel. I played almost all music on the option "Line Out" as any volume control will represent a resistance/distortion, and in this case it was a small improvement, but still (so the XLR cable goes direct into the Geithain 803K and the mechanical regulator for volume at the back of these active loudspeakers set the point. Very easily workable with foobar where you can regulate output levels pr software). Steves volume control is very good though, compared on par or very similar with Thomas Funks legendary MTX monitor (which also looks cool and has an outrageous remote control with cables, feels like something that can control a nucelar power plant or similar http://www.funk-tonstudiotechnik.de/MTX-MONITOR_V3b-1-Kurzinfo-2-Spaltig-englisch.pdf ). Basically a pre-amp should not be heard and only serve as volume regulator and amalgamation source from various inputs, otherwise avoid if possible.
Result: I have arrived. No more computeraudiophile.com (at least for a while) and all that. Will revisit the audiophile world once something truly new is more availible like DSD or RED.com reaches into audiophile. Now it is about listening, exploring the musical archives, remastering music files (with fun program like http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/ ) and not the least playing live music because: Music is Life.
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Geithainpsaudio, I appreciate you review. A direct comparison between DACs are almost impossible given the limited production and expense of each. Have you had any experience with EMM DAC2x? Having heard previous versions of EMM, I find them detailed but sterile. Not vinyl-like as Steve has been able to achieve. What were you thoughts of his DAC with the optional Hynes regulators and CUTF caps?
I appreciate your thoughtful review and must consider his Overdrive a strong contender in my shortlist of options. Reasonably priced too.
(People mention the DAC2x has resolved this issue--however no one anywhere has publicly compared the two dacs)
Bob.
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1. I have no first hand experience (yet) with the new EMM Dac2x , so dont know. in my experience there is a monumental class effect, that many manufacturers want to hide: example in mind: when the new ESS labs Sabre 9018 chip came out (http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC) one of the first adapters was Weiss audio with the new DAC202, made it move past the Berkely Audio DAC, join the CASH list etc. then Wyred4S followed and all kinds of manufacturers incl. peach tree followed, sounded all a notch better than before, set a new standard. None of them gave the large part of credit to ESS technologies. Basically audio is about 5-10 key components manufacturers R&D and general adaption of technology developments. Audio manufacturers assemble these parts more or less intelligent, repackage in new design + claims and then sell it with 5x markup or more and still dont get rich. What Steve Nugent does is different, he cuts the chain of markups by manufacturing/reassembling inhouse and selling directly to the fan community. Also his results are achieved by NOT upsampling like 9018 chip and allthough he keeps it secret what chip he uses, I would place the Overdrive SE5 in a different category, as the non-upsampled music sounds wonderfull, rich, also at 44/16b , I thought it was commercial desperation or that Steve was fallen of the waggon of technological development, but its true. In general I have not caught a single over representation (so far), he is a proud manufacturer , but honestly its dramatically undermarketed if you regard his price/quality and novelty factor vs. global market share. Will be interested in EMM but more fore the DSD option, lets see.
2. I ordered the "full monty" no limits version, so it comes with hynes and caps, even though I dont even know what that means. Did not get version without so cannot compare. Again my benchmark , end of the day , is that I keep the music flowing for hours and hours, kind of get sucked into it, isn´t that the ultimate endpoint ?
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I just finished installing my Overdrive SE. WOW I am impressed. I have listened to a previous version of the overdrive, but did not realize how much it could improved my set up until today. I was using an off ramp 4 feeding DAC based on the saber chip. I thought I had an awesome setup. First things first, I ordered my Overdrive with the Hynes Regulators and a short block. I use a Nucleus USB cable and I am using a synergistic research holographic D power chord inherited from my previous DAC. The improvement was in line with the the price I paid for the upgrade and then some. It is easy to justify sound differences arguing any one of the many factors that influence sound and perception - room acoustics, sound memory etc. However when I finally fired the overdrive, I had no doubt whatsoever that this was the real deal. Thank you Steve, once again you have made a huge difference in my love for music.
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I just finished installing my Overdrive SE. WOW I am impressed. I have listened to a previous version of the overdrive, but did not realize how much it could improved my set up until today. I was using an off ramp 4 feeding DAC based on the saber chip. I thought I had an awesome setup. First things first, I ordered my Overdrive with the Hynes Regulators and a short block. I use a Nucleus USB cable and I am using a synergistic research holographic D power chord inherited from my previous DAC. The improvement was in line with the the price I paid for the upgrade and then some. It is easy to justify sound differences arguing any one of the many factors that influence sound and perception - room acoustics, sound memory etc. However when I finally fired the overdrive, I had no doubt whatsoever that this was the real deal. Thank you Steve, once again you have made a huge difference in my love for music.
Like most of them, I didnt want to ship this one. I really enjoyed listening to it, and even had customers over to hear it.
What computer and playback software are you using with the Overdrive SE?
Steve N.
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Like most of them, I didnt want to ship this one. I really enjoyed listening to it, and even had customers over to hear it.
What computer and playback software are you using with the Overdrive SE?
Steve N.
I am using one of the newer Intel power macs with amarra symphony latest version. For some reason I can not get the recommended version to work on any of my systems.
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I am using one of the newer Intel power macs with amarra symphony latest version. For some reason I can not get the recommended version to work on any of my systems.
Is it an install problem? The only thing you should need to do is run the reset configuration script in the "extras" folder of the new Amarra. Then, you can install 4318/19 and run it.
Steve N.
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I had problems running Amarra version 4319. The only way I could get it running was to email Amarra and they were able to reset my account and then I was able to access it.
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Is it an install problem? The only thing you should need to do is run the reset configuration script in the "extras" folder of the new Amarra. Then, you can install 4318/19 and run it.
Steve N.
That did the trick. Thank you very much. I had spent hours without being able to run 4318/19.
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I just want to share my impression of a fully decked out Overdrive SE that arrived about 2 weeks ago.
It is phenomenal and a revelation about how good the humble redbook CD format could sound. I have been listening to non-audiophile pop rock CDs through a set-up consisting of the Reimyo CDP-777 as a transport connected to the Overdrive SE through the Synchro-Mesh. Honestly, I have not experienced sound that is so free of digital artifice since I reluctantly made the transition from vinyl to digital for the sake of convenience and access to a wider range of titles.
Over the years, I have had DACs from Audio Note, Zanden and Reimyo. The other DACs in my system now are the Metrum Hex and Playback Designs MPS-5 (used as a DAC for playing redbook CDs), and the Overdrive SE has overtaken them both in redbook CD playback. I am considering selling the Metrum Hex and may keep the Playback only for its excellent performance spinning SACDs.
Thanks Steve Nugent for fully justifying the leap of faith I took when I ordered the Overdrive SE. :thumb: