[steve k]

Curious about how many of you use subs with your maggies and how well they blend with maggies. I used one many years ago with MG12's but haven't used one since I moved up to IIIA's. My experience with a sub and the 12's was OK but the sub dig stick out.
steve k

[Tyson]

I run planars but not maggies.  IME, its really hard to integrate box subs with OB speakers in general and even more difficult with planars in particular.   Box bass and OB main speakers are just too different with how they sound and how they interact with your room.  Your planars radiate in a figure 8, acoustically, while a box sub is a pulsing sphere, acoustically.

What you really need is some OB subs that radiate bass in a figure 8 like your mains, that have a really open/fast bass sound but also with punch and power.  These are the only things I've found (after 20 years of searching) that fit the bill:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.0

[thunderbrick]

Use a pair of vintage Dahlquist DQ-W subs/LP-1 low pass filter with my 20.1s.  Big improvement, but I do detect a little bit of lag in the woofers.

I use a second LP-1 to bi-amp the panels.  3 amplifiers total, 600 sqft listening room, 10' ceilings.

Might try a downward-firing ACI sub that a local guy has for sale.

[SteveFord]

I do, a cheapie SVS box with the 3.7s which is okay but nothing to get excited about and an older SVS passive cylindrical one with a great Dayton 500W plate amp with EQ adjustment for the 1.7s.
I'd like to pick up two of the SVS passive subs and plate amps for the 3.7s.  That will probably be my next project.

[A_shah]

I do with maggie  1.7i, a one year old Hsu VTF-15 MarkII (variable tuning in closed mode) the sub is pretty fast and keeps up with the planers the integration is just fine, dont notice any lag

[zulugone]

I have 1.7 with a Rythmik F15HP. The sub is positioned where REW shows the flattest frequency response curve which in my room is 9' behind the listening position, back against a side wall firing into the middle of the room. I set the distances for 1.7 and sub  in my Oppo BDP-105 and adjust the sub a foot or two for minimal group delay per REW.  All of the sound sounds like it is seamlessly coming out of the Maggies. Most of my music is classical and jazz.

[jarcher]

I use a Rel 528SE with my 3.7. Originally had these for my 1.7 - don't feel as much the need with 3.7s, but still helps. I'd probably stick with RELs or perhaps consider JL Audio E subs or Fathoms if I had more $.

[electricbear]

Hey Steve,
                long time no talk. Hope life is treating you well.
Until recently I worked at a Maggie dealer. We would use JL Audio subs to flesh out the lower end.
If you want to pm me with a good email I will forward you a link from JL Audio. In it they describe how to best integrate their subwoofers and get phasing right. It is mainly aimed towards multichannel applications but can be used in 2 channel also.

[oboaudio]

I use a TRW1 rotary woofer with my Tympani 4 bass panels and the integration is fantastic!!!!!
It extends the bass response down to 1 HZ with coherency.

[rollo]

  When I owned Maggies the Sunfire was King for me. Now I would strongly recommend Inner sound OB subs. Fast accurate and tonally correct.


charles

[NIGHTFALL1970]

I use two Rythmik 12Gs.

[mcgsxr]

When I ran 1.6's I used a small Yamaha sub for 40Hz and down.  I ran the 1.6's full range and brought the sub in under.  It worked well for electronica and other bass heavy music.  For jazz and blues the sub could be turned off. 

[steve k]

Thanks for all the info. I'm not so much looking for deeper bass as I'm looking for a deeper soundstage. A friend of mine uses two subs and I'm amazed at the depth and spatial cues he gets with them. They're barely noticeable when he turns them off but the deep soundstage collapses. He is not using maggies, however. Have you guys noticed this who are using two subs? I should add he is using front firing subs.
steve

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I use 2 Martin Logan original Dynamo non ported subs crossed over at 40hz with my 1.6's and they integrate seamlessly.  I think that some people run into problems with Maggies and subs for a few reasons.  One, they have them set too loud, second, they set the cross over too high.  And third, they use slow subs for lack of a better term.  You should only get a sense of more bass on bass heavy music IMHO.

My dual subs do give a larger sense of air, depth and sound stage.

[oldnuke]

A pair of Dayton audio VS8 powered by a PE 150 watt amp.  Cheap and good for ~50 Hz down.  Gives just the right amount of space and fullness to the recordings. 

[AVnerdguy]

I use a pair of Sumiko S.9s w/Marchand XM66 active adjustable crossover with 3.7s. I run the 3.7s full range. Depending on the source material I cross over at 50Hz  to a high of 90Hz for some of the mid '60s pop/British Invasion material that is notoriously bass shy. As I.Greyhound notes, the big mistake is adding too much gain or too high a Xver point.  The Sumikos are a seamless integration and the only time you really notice them is when I shut down the mains and they are playing by themselves. I'm surprised at how little they are actually contributing but I wouldn't run the system without them. They add just enough to fill out the bottom end without adding any tubby or exaggeration to the overall sound.

[Paul McNeil]

I run two SVS PC Ultra 13s with my 1.7s. There is no problem whatsoever with integration. Each sub is two feet behind each maggie and, using the SVS electronics, I set up the relevant time delay. The bass is then equalized in the stereo mode with a DSpeaker unit. The low pass crossover is 120 htz to the subs, high pass 80 htz to the maggies. The equalized response from these 4 is almost ruler flat, from 120-20 htz. In my room at least the maggies need supplementation up this high...and, yes, I measured their bass deficiencies (with the DSpeaker unit). With this 120 htz crossover, no fatigue, no resistors inserted to tame the treble.

[Mike-48]

I use two JL Audio F112 with a pair of Janszen Valentinas as the main speakers. These are hybrid electrostatics with the panel going down to 500 Hz and then a shallow crossover to cone woofers below. I've set the crossover to the subs at 60 Hz, using the crossover in the Classé CP-800 DAC-preamp. The blend is outstanding and gives the bottom end more solidity. Perhaps this is because the Janszens are entirely using cones by the sub crossover frequency, and I am able to set that frequency on the low side.

I think it would be much more difficult integrating subs without a full crossover (both LP and HP filters), no matter what speaker you're using. When I've tried running the mains full range, results have not been as good.

The F112 has a lot of adjustments that can be used to tailor the bass response. It will adjust phase, level, tilt, and kill the largest peak. (The v.2 will kill more peaks.)  I've never been able to get smooth low bass without EQ-ing the deepest bass.

[Paul McNeil]

Yes, the full crossover is very helpful, but it requires a bit of trial and error experimentation.

I also agree that running the mains full-range, or with maggies at a very low crossover, is a mistake. When users do this they likely are not equalizing their bass, or not implementing time delay. This means they are listening to room modes which of course all rooms have. Running the maggies full range but the sub at low volume minimizes this room mode effect--boomy, one note bass. Utilizing a low crossover minimizes the modes excited. Neither provides full-range, accurate bass at the intended levels, in the absence of equalization. Leaving out time delay introduces another obvious problem that also contributes to these two preferences.

If the bass is equalized, and delay implemented, it can be played at full, natural volume, and once you've heard flat bass at natural volume, there's no going back, I think.

[Stunami]

I'm using a pair of Rythmik 12SE with my 3.7i. Very fast servo subs