AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: seadogs1 on 11 Apr 2018, 01:26 pm
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What are your recommendations for the very best stand mount loudspeakers?
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That's a yuuuuuuge category. Maybe an idea of your room, associated equipment, music preferences (genre, listening level) and not least, budget in mind would help people make some suggestions.
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That's a yuuuuuuge category. Maybe an idea of your room, associated equipment, music preferences (genre, listening level) and not least, budget in mind would help people make some suggestions.
+1
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Yes, it is huge. I will offer a couple of suggestions, depending on room size
and music preferences.
Smaller room...say 12x14, a pair of Harbeth P3esr speakers with a sub will
surprise you, but not if you are a metalhead.
I have a large room 25x30 and on one wall have a pair of Harbeth C7es3 monitors
with one sub crossed over at 50hz that is giving me some of the best sound I've
had (for my tastes) in 0ver 40 yrs as a audio-fool that has had me going through
at least 20 different brands/pairs of speakers.
YMMV,
Hibuck...
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Not near enough information as stated but staying in one line I know and going up in price-
EMIT 20s
Special Fortys
Confidence C1s
I have had all three and hard to go wrong with Dynaudio. Focal Aria is another top pick but YMMV
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Room size 12w x 20L. Music all kinds. Background to critical listening. Would prefer high db speakers but am open. Price below 10 grand. Equipment will depend on loudspeaker.
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https://www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/confidence/c1-platinum?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrcKuuNey2gIVTxuBCh2cZwNIEAAYASAAEgLXSvD_BwE
Opinions on a question this broad will vary immensely but there ya go. And as you would expect, upstream will make a difference. Huge detailed sound from a "small" speaker..
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DB is right, this a huge category and there is no standard answer. People can tell you what works for them but at the end of the day you are going to have to do it the hard way. It sounds worse than it is since you are going to have a lot of fun through that journey. I took it 3 years ago and discovered "to me" what I think is the best combination regardless of price: a pair of Audience 1+1v2+ complemented by 4 Martin Logan Grotto i subwoofers. When set up properly and connected to good associated equipment, this set up can take a man to heaven and back. Good luck to you and remember to have some fun.
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I like to have my money to go as far as possible, so I'll recommend the Salk Silk Monitors (Silk (http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Silk+Monitors) or Silk AT (http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Silk+AT+Monitors), $3600).
Exquisite sound, room filling, beautiful cabinetry and customizable.
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Lot of great reviews on Salk but 3-6 month wait on a speaker you have to buy sight "unheard" was a little too risky for me. Great group of folks though. However if you value a speaker as furniture, they are hard to beat.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156856.0
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Joseph Audio Pulsars, $7,700. Stunning soundstage and imaging, amazing bass from such a small speaker, you really don't need a sub for music. Goldilocks tone, not too warm, not too analytical, very much middle of the road neutral. The treble is clear and brilliant without any harshness, they sound much like a ribbon tweeter.
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I heard the cheaper Joseph Audio Prism(?, about$3-4k) at the DC show. I actually liked them better then the Pulsars but different rooms, music, etc.
My short list of things to audition: Trenner&Friedl Sun, JA Prism, some Magnepan, Janszen Carmelita, Manger Audio z1, maybe an Ohm of some sort.
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Fritz Speakers Carrera 7 BE. They do everything right, and nothing wrong.
Don't let the low price fool you, these are seriously great stand mounts. Call Fritz and see if you can arrange a demo.
Have fun,
Jerry
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Kii Audio Three: $13,900/pair but active so six 250 watt power amps, one per driver, are included. (Once you hear active, you won't go back.) Rated 20-25,000 Hz, 8" x 16" x 16", accepts analog or digital input, and corrects for room effects (controlled directivity thus the four woofers).
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three
If budget doesn't have give, check out the Neumann KH420, $9799/pair, another active monitor (no power amp required). Rated 26-22,000 Hz, 13" x 17.5" x 25.5", well controlled dispersion, and EQ controls. Neumann is known for rock solid design, sound, and build.
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh420
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JLM do you know if there is or will be a dealer in the US? Have you heard these yourself? Thanks!
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GR-Research Neo 2X kit + upgrade parts, a pair of Parts Express cabinets, and a Rythmic sub. All less than $1500 and will best most everything suggested so far. You just have to have the front baffle cut.
Also, member AJ in Florida makes a fine speaker for under $2K.
I'm always amazed at recommendations of small speakers that cost $5000 and up.
Also, there are always good sounding versions of Revel, Focal, Usher, etc that are for sale used. These are solid companies with excellent sound. In the used market, a couple of grand buys a lot of speaker.
I'm heard some nice active speakers, but unlike JLM, I had no problem "going back" to my non powered speakers.
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I own active monitors (Dynaudio BM5 MkIII) and single driver speakers (active by default), and have heard several, but not Neumann or Kii. Sorry don't know if dealers exist in the U.S.
I've found actives (note subs are also active) much more dynamic, flatter frequency response (a revelation in itself), and deeper/fuller bass. Many technical merits in favor of active design: low voltage crossovers can be more precise/include DSP; amps 'see' a simpler/more direct load from a single driver; less wasted energy; speaker designer picks the amp (versus a less informed consumer); less phase mixups; cheaper construction (fewer cabinets); elimination of speaker cable in place of much cheaper XLR cables that have fewer issues. And active monitors is almost all the studio professionals use.
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Raihdo X-1 is a great one. You have to go to the TAD bookshelf speakers to significantly better it, IME.
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I've heard the Kii at AXPONA and don't understand what all the fuss is about. Competent, but nothing outstanding. A little flat in the affect/presentation. I don't think they justified their price tag, even if I could afford them. YMMV, however.
I really like my Neumann KH120's and have been very intrigued to demo the larger models. I think going up in their model range would be worth exploring.
I think I also heard some small Raidho's at AXPONA, if I recall, and really liked those. Didn't like their price tag, however, they would be a consideration if a bag o' money landed on my doorstep.
Regards, -dGB
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Fritz Speakers Carrera 7 BE. They do everything right, and nothing wrong.
Don't let the low price fool you, these are seriously great stand mounts. Call Fritz and see if you can arrange a demo.
Have fun,
Jerry
I have a pair (in San Francisco) and have to agree with Jerry. If any AC members would like to hear them, send me a PM.
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I like Fritz and his speakers (more full bodied and easier to live with than most) but need big ballsy power to get the most of the them.
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I like Fritz and his speakers (more full bodied and easier to live with than most) but need big ballsy power to get the most of the them.
Pass Lab XA-30.8 (30 watts Class A power) doing a fantastic job. Ballsy?
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I went way off the reservation to pursue the ultimate in a small speaker using scan speak drivers. Don't know if it's the ultimate, most likely not, but very dang good, with stunning bass out of the small woofer, equalling or beating most 8" woofers in power.
-SA Pandion https://system-audio.com/product/sa-pandion-2-2/
Going active is an excellent way to go and what I would do starting fresh.
Rocket_Ronny
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I went way off the reservation to pursue the ultimate in a small speaker using scan speak drivers. Don't know if it's the ultimate, most likely not, but very dang good, with stunning bass out of the small woofer, equalling most 8" woofers in power.
-SA Pandion https://system-audio.com/product/sa-pandion-2-2/
Going active is an excellent way to go and what I would do starting fresh.
Rocket_Ronny
Similar to North Creek (now defunct) Kitty Kat Revelator series:
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Retired/Kitty_Kat/kitty_kat.html
Best,
Anand.
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Cool, never heard of them. Leave it to a true junky to find such a find. You have to be the most intense gear head I know, that's a compliment. I don't like their 2-8 inch from the wall design though.
I had a musician over who mixes his own stuff on some good $1,000.00 dollar active pro monitors, forget the make, model, and he was shocked at the bass output of the SA Pandions. The only 2 way monitors I have heard with a deeper bass was the Volents VL 2s I had, but it was not better or much more impactful than the SA's? Going on memory here. We are talking floor stander volume of bass.
Bass of course is not the whole story. As over achieving as the 5.5 inch, long throw, woofer is in itls delivery, so is the entire speaker. The only thing I don't like about it is the inflated price. Had I not gotten a great deal on some demos I would not own them as I would not have paid the retail. Just more than I want to spend. Even with the deal they were way high in price. Glad to have them though.
Rocket Ronny
P.S. These are not off the shelf Scan Speak drivers used, but are custom designed for SA to their specs.
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I have a pair (in San Francisco) and have to agree with Jerry. If any AC members would like to hear them, send me a PM.
+1 on the Fritz Carrera BE's. I heard them at AXPONA yesterday and was very impressed. Coherent, musical, and -- as stated -- without any significant sonic errors. I talked with Fritz at-length yesterday (very nice guy, and super-knowledgeable and passionate about his work) and learned a lot. I don't understand fully the serial crossover he uses, but I can attest to the fact that his speakers sound great, better than many over-priced competitors. If I was in the market for a passive standmount monitor, my search would likely begin and end with Fritz. Throw in that he can source a large selection of veneers and it's a no-brainer IMO. Dunno how they produce a metal-based tweeter that I like, but the treble is airy and extended. I wouldn't be able to tell this was a metal dome unless you told me.
I also heard the Dynaudio Special 40 yesterday and liked it, but it got somewhat congested when they tried to push the decibels on it. Fine speaker for low and sane listening levels, though.
I wanted to like the Raidho monitors I heard yesterday, but they were also cranked too loud and started to break up IMO. Some of these dealers just don't know how to show their wares to best effect.
The TAD monitors at AXPONA (can't recall the model number) were lovely, but their price tag puts them well out of my consideration. The pair they had was lovely, however, in a muted shade of green-grey. Always nice to see manufacturers produce a color other than white, black, or brown (wood veneers) that actually looks tasteful.
If you want to go to a somewhat bigger standmount, the Tekton speakers at AXPONA (in a vibrant shade of electric orange!) demoed with Parasound gear sounded mighty fine....and they sport a sane price tag as well.
Now, if the choice was between passive and active standmounts/monitors, that might be a different decision. Ultimately, I think that is where I will end up when we downsize. Given my good experience with the KH120's, the Neumann KH310 might be the first place I start to look. I liked some of the ATC actives I heard at AXPONA yesterday, but they start at a stratospheric price and go up from there, so they are a non-starter for me unless I find a pair of ATC 19 Actives used at a "can't refuse" price.
Regards, -dGB
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Thanks for all the replies. Sorry for not posting sooner but I've been busy digging out from all The snow up here. A quick question for all the active speaker enthusiasts, WHY? Could you give me the reasons why you are so assured that if I heard an active loudspeaker I would never go back to passive. Thanks Again!
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One of the reasons may be that you can control crossover characteristics to a much greater degree with actives and thus get optimum performance from the individual drivers.
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One of the reasons may be that you can control crossover characteristics to a much greater degree with actives and thus get optimum performance from the individual drivers.
dB Cooper has the primary gist of it -- digital crossovers and DSP allows for a more precise crossover design, plus then you can design amps that are optimised for just the frequency range for that particular driver. Nothing separating the amp and speaker (theoretically) means a more copacetic design. That, plus the designer should be able to tailor the combination of amp/driver, whereas we civilians are just "mixing-&-matching" amps and speakers at random, sometimes resulting in a good match, sometimes not.
Drawbacks:
1. Customers don't have the option to mix-&-match amps and speakers -- I would assert this is a plus, not a minus. Most of us do *NOT* know more than a designer.....I know I don't.
2. If a designer makes an overly cost-saving choice on amp/speaker, you are stuck. This can happen, but that's what home demos are for.
3. Amp/DSP located in the cabinet is subject to more vibrations. Yes, I would agree with this, but doesn't the same thing happen to (most) crossovers in a passive crossover design speaker also? That is, unless you have an external crossover box, but to me that's just another headache and space hog.
Just my $0.02, -dGB (I added the G recently)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iVYPlIAtig
https://www.audiothesis.com/pienza
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THANKS KEEP 'EM COMING!
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Okay with all the new stand mount loudspeakers out there which ones specifically should I audition for a smaller room? Please give details. Thanks!!!! I'll be looking at a whole new system so I'll be matching the rest of the system to the speakers I choose.
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Price range? Sub or not? Room size? Musical preferences? System preferences, i.e. warm, analytical, soundstage?
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Room size 15x 12 8 ft ceilings. Undecided about subs. Type of music, all kinds. Price range to $15000.00. System preferences, wide and deep soundstage, Good piano, violin and great female voices and NO head in a vice.
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$15k for speakers, or the system?
My first thought before seeing the price tag was a pair of KEF LS50Ws. Fantastic little speakers for a small room. All you need is a good source.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzGF4gXCaiU&feature=youtu.be
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The best reasonably priced standmounts for a medium room I've experienced would be the Selah Tempestas or one of the variants. $3500 and up, more or less. In a room the size of yours you should have good bass into the mid 30s. A good sub would extend that, of course.
Take a look at Rick's stuff here on AC. Very impressive parts and design quality for the $. He's a great resource here.
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Hello, seadogs.
I hope your quest produces some great suggestions since I’ve been thinking about the same thing (except my max budget is lower) for a while now.
I’ve read great things about the Tempestas, but never heard them.
The standmount speakers that were responsible for my eventually buying Daedalus Apollos were Aldcoll’s (Alan) Daedalus Pans. They are three-way standmounted speakers sporting an eight inch woofer, a five inch full range driver (limited to a specific frequency range), and a one inch soft dome tweeter. The Pans (94db(??), 8 Ohm) are Lou Hinkley’s entry level models and they perform extremely well in small and medium sized rooms (in my opinion). They benefit from the addition of one or two subs, but they’re not necessary for most music. I believe a pair will run you approximately $6500, but this price may be dated.
Perhaps, Alan will chime in.
In addition to the above speakers, I have played with the idea of having a pair of stand mounted three-way kits made to my specs with flat packs made for them. The idea is to get the flat packs to Taiwan in my luggage, purchase the drivers in Taiwan and assemble them here. If Lou would agree to this scheme (he won’t), I’d probably buy a pair of Pan kit speakers. As it is, I have approached both Rick at Selah Audio and Kerry at CSS with very rough ideas, but I have not gotten serious enough to discuss solid designs with either of them.
I’ll melt back into lurk mode to see what develops. Perhaps LesterSleepsIn will offer some insight. He’s been searching for something similar for a while. [It makes me wish I were his neighbor!]
Best of luck,
Michael
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Stand mount monitors?
I just heard SELAH Epico.
Very nice. Nice detail. And with his dsp
On board very accomadating. Nearfiield
With your room size these are a contender.
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There are some good ideas in this Thread (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156899.0), too. :scratch:
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..... Price range to $15000.00. System preferences, wide and deep soundstage, Good piano, violin and great female voices and NO head in a vice.
Raidho C1 or D1. You'd have to go used to hit your price point, but they are the best stand mounts I've heard. Absolutely transparent.
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I'd go with active speakers. Many technical reasons and from personal experiences. I won't bore you here.
At this price range I'd look at the $13,900/pair Kii Audio Three. It uses a 3-way sealed design with 4 woofers and 6 250 watt class D amps, and are rated down to 20 Hz (no sub needed). They can be fed analog or digital signals (so just add a digital server). The design has DSP to correct for room influences, correct for phasing issues, and provides controlled directivity. Matching stands and wired remote available. Sound that competes with headphones from anywhere in the room. Here's a review from a respected source:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kii-audio-three
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There are some good ideas in this Thread (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156899.0), too. :scratch:
Seadog, didn't you ask exactly the same question on another thread in April? Yes, I believe you did and Jerry just linked to it here. I'll combine them for you to avoid confusion and double posts by members who have already answered your query.
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Thanks! Please double them up.
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Back to the thread, yes JLM, those Kii 3 look amazing. A well done review from a pro audio perspective. He viewed them as neutral in tone, would that mean a little cool to most home users? We do love our syrupy colorations. From the graph provided it looks like the controlled dispersion is amazing from bass through the entire midrange and beyond falling down only in the high treble, which I assume they don't view as a problem. And the op's situation is perfect for active speakers, no better time than when starting out and no investment in other components yet. Very innovative design.
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They make a stand for the Kii 3 now.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m08uyQdeKBE/WuwwqdkcIwI/AAAAAAACufA/M0v_idMcZXc4g8cee7BD9qNrGm5K90gggCK4BGAYYCw/s640/IMG_1749.JPG)
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More on Kii 3:
https://vimeo.com/267259170
Best,
Anand.