[mresseguie]

All this talk about connecting a DAC directly into an amp got me to thinking about how SQ may (or may not) differ if I tried that with my system. My trusty old DAC is a Cambridge Audio DAC MagicPlus. It's got volume control. It's now directly connected to my AVA 400R amp. My AVA T8 preamp is 'resting'.

I'll have to listen for a while before I switch back.

I only just switched out my speakers yesterday, so I'm still reacquainting myself with the 'new' speakers. New: GR Research LGKs; old: Adelphos 2-way designed by Jeff Bagby using the SB Acoustics Satori 6.5" midwoofers and Satori 1" tweeters. After switching the speakers, I immediately noticed the LGKs sound better in my near-field setup, and that my Adelphos sound better in my bedroom system. Win-Win. 

[Letitroll98]

Buy the Tortuga LDR passive preamp kit. Either buy the complete kit or the LDR3x.V2.1 Passive Preamp Controller and assemble your own unit.
Albeit, this is still a preamp but it will have very minimal effect on the signal. The plus is that you have full component switching functions.
Not that cheap but not very expensive (in audiophile terms ) either especially if you just buy the controller board.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130001.0
http://www.tortugaaudio.com/product/ldr3x-v2-1/

Wrong rajacat, the unit is not even close to C&C guidelines.  Please be so kind as to not recommend expensive products in the C&C circle, thank you.

[JohanH]

All this talk about connecting a DAC directly into an amp got me to thinking about how SQ may (or may not) differ if I tried that with my system. My trusty old DAC is a Cambridge Audio DAC MagicPlus. It's got volume control. It's now directly connected to my AVA 400R amp. My AVA T8 preamp is 'resting'.

I'll have to listen for a while before I switch back.

I only just switched out my speakers yesterday, so I'm still reacquainting myself with the 'new' speakers. New: GR Research LGKs; old: Adelphos 2-way designed by Jeff Bagby using the SB Acoustics Satori 6.5" midwoofers and Satori 1" tweeters. After switching the speakers, I immediately noticed the LGKs sound better in my near-field setup, and that my Adelphos sound better in my bedroom system. Win-Win. 

Less is more 
Glad you like it
Enjoy the music

[MtnHam]

When it comes to pre-amps, the "less is more" concept is refuted by a serious number of audiophiles. Active, while generally more expensive, is usually better. Of course, this assumes quality kit all the way around.

[JohanH]

I'm using modified MDAC directly through XLR into NCores.
Would not want anything in between.
And everytime I got rid of a component in the chain, sq improved.
If adding something to the chain improves sq, my guess is there's a mismatch between components
But then again YMMV

[aldcoll]

When it comes to pre-amps, the "less is more" concept is refuted by a serious number of audiophiles. Active, while generally more expensive, is usually better.

I have heard that quote and heard that equipment.  And yes there was some REALLLLY nice equipment hooked up to my Pans and While we didn't spend enough time swapping things around I really kicked my self that we hadn't gone back to a DAC Amp Speaker setup as the DAC at the time was tubed so would that have been a accurate test.  I keep asking my self and my wallet what sound do I want.  In my heart I want purely what the musician wanted and then the audio engineer stepped in and had his idea.  And he twisted the knobs.  And then the home user can twist his knobs?  I am just seeking the best sound my meager roll of pennies can manage.

I still get a kick out the Audio manufactures as they add "Their" sound to "Their" equipment.  Folks are looking for Bit perfect and to what their ears is sound perfect

But then again I bought the Daedalus Pans as they SOUNDED best to my ear's

[Quiet Earth]

If it were me I would step out of the cheap and cheerful circle and start saving my money up for a really nice integrated amp for those speakers.

[aldcoll]

I am shooting for a Modwright 150 SE and the Pre is up in the air.  If my budget minder will lighten up
The Pans Deserve better then I have been treating them but when the wife is tone def and it dosent make a difference to her

[mresseguie]

Seems to me another Willamette Valley/Oregon/southern Washington blowout GTG is in order.  We figure out which day works best for the most people; I warn my wife that everyone is coming to my house, and that the living room/dining room space will be used.

I seem to recall there are a couple of ACers in/ near Lincoln City, one in Bend, several in Portland, and a couple in WA. This time I will secure a loaner DAC or other component for the shin dig.

Whaddya say?

[aldcoll]

Count me in.  We will need to move this item to a different  circle.
 

[mresseguie]

All this talk about connecting a DAC directly into an amp got me to thinking about how SQ may (or may not) differ if I tried that with my system. My trusty old DAC is a Cambridge Audio DAC MagicPlus. It's got volume control. It's now directly connected to my AVA 400R amp. My AVA T8 preamp is 'resting'.

I'll have to listen for a while before I switch back.

I only just switched out my speakers yesterday, so I'm still reacquainting myself with the 'new' speakers. New: GR Research LGKs; old: Adelphos 2-way designed by Jeff Bagby using the SB Acoustics Satori 6.5" midwoofers and Satori 1" tweeters. After switching the speakers, I immediately noticed the LGKs sound better in my near-field setup, and that my Adelphos sound better in my bedroom system. Win-Win. 

Okay. I've listened to different music styles at different volumes for the last five days with my DacMagicPlus directly feeding my AVA 400R amp. I initially noticed a less airy, boxier sound to my music, but I told myself to go with the flow...to let my ears adjust to the new sound. Well, that boxiness, drier, flatter sound never went away. I'm not saying it was unpleasant; it was simply inferior to what my T8 gives me when it is in the loop.

The T8 is once again back in the loop, and I immediately heard/felt the softer, warmer, ???? music that I so enjoy. The band/instruments are in the same room now rather than clearly being in a recording.

This does not refute what others in this thread have said about doing without a preamp. It simply demonstrates that my T8 is superior to my DAC, and, perhaps, that my DAC isn't so hot.

Equipment:
Desktop System
GR Research LGK monitors
AVA 400R amp
AVA T8 preamp
Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus
Logitech SB Touch
2014 Mac Mini with iTunes
Triode Wire Labs speaker cables
TWL RCA ICs (4)
Pi Audio UberBUSS
TWL +10 PC
 

[avta]

I have had the same experience as you although with different equipment.

[aldcoll]

Did you unpack it??? That is the best way to remove that sound

Try the SB to the amp and see  what you get.  Be sure to check the volume setting. This could be a fast test on the DAC.  Should only take a few minutes of play time to figure whats what.