[Moon Doggy]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

[Moon Doggy]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

James,  I just e-mailed you the same question. Regards, James

[James Tanner]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

James,  I just e-mailed you the same question. Regards, James

Yes I have a call in to Torus on this -Monday is a holiday in Ontario.

james

[James Tanner]

February 2009

Hi James,

I received the Torus units last Tuesday and wanted to let the electronics settle before giving you my impressions.

As one reviewer from Manitoba commented, the first hours are better forgotten since the units are just getting broken in. As a result, the stage is pushed back and the midrange is pinched. Yet the image appears wider and the silence is indeed silent. Not to despair but the initial impression could be disheartening if one is not prepared for this breaking in period. A few hours later though, it already sounded much better and the dynamic balance was returning. Every day brought back an ease that the system used to have but with a cleaner sound yet a tad less present…

Fast forward to a week later, and the Torus influence is now close to full power. The improvement is a wider, stable stage, silence being truly silent redefining the threshold of sound. Most importantly the high midrange to treble register has been cleaned of any hint of aggressiveness. As a result, and to counter the impression of a slight veil, I had to bring the 2446 JBL horns an extra 2 dB forward each not only to restore a dynamic balance but to purely and simply unleash the magic: never ever did the system sound so free, precise, clean, undistorted, alive, soft and involving at the same time!

Obviously before, the slight toning down of those powerful horns was a compromise in order to compensate the dirty power effect on this frequency range, i.e. introduction of what must have been some aggressive transients. The treble has now a richer tone and feels more extended. With the 2242 JBL 18” I was used to great controlled bass and that part has not changed and regardless of the time of the day, the system is not affected by the quality of power.

So James, clearly the two Torus RM 15 have not only provided me with a good workout… but with bringing the JBL pro monitoring system to a reference level you only find in studios. A very sensible purchase indeed.

Best regards,
Dr. Marc Villéger

[James Tanner]

CUSTOMER FEEDBACK:

James, you helped me with some pre-purchase questions and I’d like to pass on some very positive feedback from my RM-10 and BCD-1 experience:  both products work very well and I’ve been particularly impressed with the RM-10.  I’ve changed CD players before and had a general idea of what to expect, but had never tried any kind of power filter/conditioner/isolator before.  So, since I live in a condo building I thought I might be more subject to power line noise than a house so thought some basic conditioning might be a good idea.

WOW.

I’m amazed that such a ‘simple’ change can yield such a noticeable improvement.  While I wouldn’t say the improvement(s) were dramatic, they were definitely significant and more than justify the RM-10 investment.  Here’s the comment you gave me pre-purchase:

”I think you would find everything sounds more relaxed and easier to hear small details in the music with the Torus. The noise floor gets lowered and you really can hear more into things.”

This was exactly my experience and I’d add that my soundstage is definitely more 3-dimensional.  I have two sources, a tuner and a BCD-1 and I’ve noticed the most pronounced change with the tuner.  I had only had the BCD-1 for a little while before receiving the RM-10, so maybe my ears were not as accustomed to the BCD-1 sound as with my tuner?

Anyway, I am very pleased with both components.

Thanks for your advice.

*********

[95Dyna]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

Does anybody know the peak current requirments for the 14B or pair of 7B's?  Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using the 400 amp current reserve of the RM20?

[James Tanner]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Does anybody know what the maximum peak current requirements would be for the 14B or pair of 7B's. Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using such a large current reserve as 400 amps?

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

The thing you have to understand about this is we are talking about INSTANTANIOUS CURRENT DRAW on VERY SHORT TERM PEAKS.  This is NOT CONTINUOUS current requirements.

Excerpt from Torus information sheet:

Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier

Torus power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp Torus PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A Torus 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.

So as the size of the amplifier goes up the amount of short term current it can draw increases as well. The speaker load would ultimately be the deciding factor in how much current needs to be delivered at any specific time.

Another important point is that the amplifier is drawing current from the 'Magnetic Field' between the primary and the secondary of the isolation transformer in the Torus - not directly from the wall.

james 

[James Tanner]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

Hi MoonDoggy,

Your answer sir:

Hello James,

The 400 Amps PEAK for the RM 20 is a reference to the maximum instantaneous peak current that the fusing of the unit allows to pass before failing.

This current is typically around 15 to 20 times the nominal current, therefore, for the RM 2.5 and RM 10 are around 50 A peak and 200 A peak.

The transformer has no problem to deliver this instantaneous power with no compromise on the quality of the voltage waveform.

Thanks,
Henry Pajooman
Torus
Research Engineer

[95Dyna]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Does anybody know what the maximum peak current requirements would be for the 14B or pair of 7B's. Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using such a large current reserve as 400 amps?

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

The thing you have to understand about this is we are talking about INSTANTANIOUS CURRENT DRAW on VERY SHORT TERM PEAKS.  This is NOT CONTINUOUS current requirements.

Excerpt from Torus information sheet:

Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier

Torus power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp Torus PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A Torus 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.

So as the size of the amplifier goes up the amount of short term current it can draw increases as well. The speaker load would ultimately be the deciding factor in how much current needs to be delivered at any specific time.

Another important point is that the amplifier is drawing current from the 'Magnetic Field' between the primary and the secondary of the isolation transformer in the Torus - not directly from the wall.

james 

Sorry James, I didn't mean to irritate you with my question.  I'm just trying to understand how what the Torus provides in the way of instantaneous peak current relates to what the 14B or 7B's need for these maximum peaks.  The explanation in bold print almost answers my question but it states what a 200 watt amp would require without mentioning the speaker load the 200 watts is serving.  It also states that this figure will increase with larger amps but doesn't say what the progression rate is.  So my question specifically is what peak instantaneous maximum current requirement would the 14B or 7B's require at 4 ohms?  I mention both the 14B and 7B because in another post you indicated the 7B has twice the capacitance of the 14B which affects the amps current delivery capabilities and resultantly what it would need from the Torus during peak instantaneous demand.

Thanks,

Bill

[James Tanner]

^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.

james

[Moon Doggy]

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.


james

Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?

Thanks, James

Hi MoonDoggy,

Your answer sir:

Hello James,

The 400 Amps PEAK for the RM 20 is a reference to the maximum instantaneous peak current that the fusing of the unit allows to pass before failing.

This current is typically around 15 to 20 times the nominal current, therefore, for the RM 2.5 and RM 10 are around 50 A peak and 200 A peak.

The transformer has no problem to deliver this instantaneous power with no compromise on the quality of the voltage waveform.

Thanks,
Henry Pajooman
Torus
Research Engineer

Thanks for the answer, James and Henry. I've set up an in home trial for the Torus RM-5 with Creative Audio after the unit gets back from another audition. Seems the power conditioners are generating a lot of interest! Cheers, James

[James Tanner]

^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.

james

Hi;
 
There are several reasons for a Torus power conditioner in your system. 

Among these are: Reduction of line noise, RF and other hash; protection from surge damage; and improved current supply from the line to your power amplifier.  Although every amplifier has energy storage in its power-supply, more energy storage will almost always improve dynamics and focus in the amplifier.  The Torus stores energy in the form of the magnetic field in its transformer.  That means the current the Torus draws is more of an 'average value' from the wall, instead of the 'high peaks' the amplifier may demand. 

It's true that a smaller amplifier can be expected to draw less current than a larger one, but even a 150Wpc amplifier can demand instantaneous current above 15 Amperes from the line.  The 7B SST2 can demand up to 15-18 Amps peak per channel when driving 4 Ohms. The 14B SST2 can of course demand twice as much, up to over 35 Amperes for both channels into 4 Ohms. 

We tend to recommend that the customer listen to the system with and without the Torus power conditioner, to establish whether the improvement is audible in that system.  We find that it almost always is.
 
I hope the above is helpful.  Thanks for thinking of Bryston.
 
cwr

[95Dyna]

^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.

james

Hi;
 
There are several reasons for a Torus power conditioner in your system. 

Among these are: Reduction of line noise, RF and other hash; protection from surge damage; and improved current supply from the line to your power amplifier.  Although every amplifier has energy storage in its power-supply, more energy storage will almost always improve dynamics and focus in the amplifier.  The Torus stores energy in the form of the magnetic field in its transformer.  That means the current the Torus draws is more of an 'average value' from the wall, instead of the 'high peaks' the amplifier may demand. 

It's true that a smaller amplifier can be expected to draw less current than a larger one, but even a 150Wpc amplifier can demand instantaneous current above 15 Amperes from the line.  The 7B SST2 can demand up to 15-18 Amps peak per channel when driving 4 Ohms. The 14B SST2 can of course demand twice as much, up to over 35 Amperes for both channels into 4 Ohms. 

We tend to recommend that the customer listen to the system with and without the Torus power conditioner, to establish whether the improvement is audible in that system.  We find that it almost always is.
 
I hope the above is helpful.  Thanks for thinking of Bryston.
 
cwr

Thanks James.  This answers my question.  I agree that the best thing to do is compare performance with and without in a demo but when that's not possible the theory behind the performance is very helpful. 

Bill

[alexone]

James,

 what is the recommendet 'distance' to place a Torus and an amplifier (or any other piece of our beloved equipment) ?



al.

[James Tanner]

James,

 what is the recommendet 'distance' to place a Torus and an amplifier (or any other piece of our beloved equipment) ?



al.

Hi Alex,

You mean in terms of performance or your concerned about noise?

james

[alexone]

James,

i was thinking of the noise a Torus could transport into another piece of equipment.

for example: the BP26 has an external power supply to prevent noise etc. what if i place the Torus -which has a huge transformer- just right beside any other technical equipment.

and i am (we are) for sure concerned about the performance...


al.

[James Tanner]

James,

i was thinking of the noise a Torus could transport into another piece of equipment.

for example: the BP26 has an external power supply to prevent noise etc. what if i place the Torus -which has a huge transformer- just right beside any other technical equipment.

and i am (we are) for sure concerned about the performance...


al.

Hi Alex,

The Torus uses a 'Toroid' transformer - looks like a big donut - so the magnetic field is highly concentrated around the core of the transformer.
http://bryston.com/newsletters/84_files/vol8is4.html

That being said I would not place a sensitive component like a Phono stage directly on top of the Torus or on top of a large amplifier for that matter.

james

[alexone]

...hmmmmmm, i love donuts!

al.

[alexone]

James,

what about the power consumption of a Torus?

al.

[James Tanner]

James,

what about the power consumption of a Torus?

al.

TORUS CURRENT DRAW WITH NO-LOAD 240V/50Hz

Int 1A: 0.11A

Int 2A: 0.12A

Int 4A: 0.56A

Int 8A: 0.67A

Int 16A: 1.05A

james