AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: James Tanner on 30 Oct 2007, 08:53 am
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Nice letter from Torus customer.
http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/Torus_CR_102007.pdf
james
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MEMO - Bryston Customer Feedback
SUBJECT – Torus Powerline Isolation Unit
Hi James
Having recently bought the single 20A, Torus through Creative Audio in Winnipeg, they told me that you would be interested in my impressions of it. I should start by giving you some background, so you can keep things in context.
Background:
Almost a year ago, I replaced a Sonic Frontier Line 1 pre, and two Power 1 amps (verti-cal biamp) in my main system, with a BP 26 and a 14 BSST, also from Creative Audio. I spent a fair amount of time tweaking those pieces with power cord changes, footers, cardas caps, and more recently swapping out almost all my IC's to Bryston ones, re-placing more expensive, but not as good sounding, cables. So main core of the system is basically Bryston. Other components include a VPI Scoutmaster to a very tweaked Slee Era Gold V phono section, digital side is done by a Musical Fidelity A3 CDP used as a transport to a Musical Fidelity Trivista DAC (where the Bryston cable also makes a great digital cable), and the tuner is a Parasound Halo T3, connected by XLR to the pre. Speakers are Martin Logan Aeons.(with Goertz M1.3 cables)
Almost everything has been tweaked. Atlantis Reference stands (2), with clumping kitty litter in the tubes, Linn skeets under the top shelves and bottom of the stands, 3 inch maple block under the TT, footers include Tara Lab vanishing points, BDR's, and Finite Element ceraballs, and more Linn skeets under the speakers. Power cords are a range from Moray James, into almost all things including the speakers. I am aware that power
matters, and that power cords tend to improve things, but also that they react differently to individual components. Everything was originally plugged into a Panamax 5510, with power set to balanced on the 4 transformer based lines (regenerated ) which I used for the CDP, DAC, phono and TT motor. Panamax was further tweaked using BDR's as footers into Linn skeets as cups, and Cardas caps over all RCA's and also on the XLR connectors for the lamp attachment. (I know it seemed strange, to do to the Panamax, but there really was quite an improvement especially with the XLR caps)
Conditioners:
When I had the Sonic Frontier gear hooked up, the indicator gauge on the front of the Panamax would indicate about a 6-7 amp draw. I was quite surprised that the switch to the Bryston components had the same gauge indicating only about a 2 amp draw. This especially as the14 BSST is capable of far more power. I know the gauge is not really a reliable indicator, given the need for short bursts of power as required by the music being played. In my situation though, I required a conditioner especially as I have so many pieces to plug in, the Panamax was an improvement over the wall (and over the Panamax 5500, and the Tice Solo I had used previously), and most importantly - Win-nipeg tends to get some stunning lightening storms during the summer, so protection is essential.
So originally, the Bryston components slotted into the Panamax basically as a straight replacement to the Sonic Frontier stuff. Things sounded better than with the tubed stuff, with improvements in detail, and a new and wonderful bottom end grip on the speakers. Still, I had a couple of mystery shut offs of the amp - for which I eventually figured out that with some of the brown outs -the fuse switch /breaker on the back of the 14 BSST must be responding very quickly. Pre would stay on, but not the amp. Now this is ac-tually a good thing in that I know it protects things, but I do leave my pre and amp on at all times (sounds much better). So this in turn lead me to reconsider the Panamax, even though I thought the amp plug in section on it was not current limiting, and only had some surge protection on it. One day I decided to do a little test. I had read that you do not recommend a conditioner be used on the Bryston amps, but really, it looked like I was getting less draw now, so a conditioner must be a good thing...Well, short end of things, I was surprised that the Bryston actually sounded much better straight into the wall, than into the Panamax, with the bloom being about the same, but a removal of a haze across everything that I had not realized before (remember, the Panamax was better with the Sonic Frontier than the wall) Much research later, and it was time to test a Torus.
See below:
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Plese see above:
Torus RM 20:
Physical Impressions :
After carrying the Torus in, even though it is heavy, I found that it was not overly awk-ward to move as the weight is centrally balanced. In my case, fortunately slotting into a bottom shelf of the rack, beside the amp. I was happy to notice that the black of the case matches pretty closely to the Bryston black cases, and that the silver also matches the fronts of the Bryston components. No gauges, no bells and whistles, and maybe less things that could go wrong down the road. Ground attachment on the back is best describes as utilitarian, but than I am not using it. Power switch on front being fairly large, and with an orange like glow when on (and never off in my case). Case-work is slotted top, sides and bottom for best ventilation I assumed. Tapping on the top casework was quite noisy with a loose rattle of thinner metal. Small reservations were about the orange glow (matches nothing, and would it be irritating at night listening), the ventilated bottom meant I was loath to try different footers than the stock rubber based ones (and still haven't), and for the rattle, well maybe it wouldn't be an issue. Time to plug in, in this case using the 15 amp adapter cord for the wall. (14 gauge for now).
Warm Up:
Initial turn on, was that basically everything seemed to work, but there was nothing special going on. In fact the soundstage was way more sucked back than I was used to. Not to panic, as I did realize that things needed to run in, and there was the hint of this with the slotted casework. After 2 days of being on, the casework started to feel warm -sort of more than on a 4 BSST but less than on the 14 BSST. By day 5 the bloom started to improve. By day 7, things were definitely improving. With the heat - the top casework seemed to expand and tighten a bit (still not great, but better) ,and initially I found that until the bloom aspect started to improve, I was actually turning the volume up louder than I normally would to achieve the same aspect of soundstage I was look-ing for. This also improved with time (needing less volume, but more on this later) Overall, needing about 2 weeks of warm up / run in.
Testing:
Test parameters were fairly simple. Set up Panamax 5510 on top of the Torus RM20 (not using the footers on the Panamax, but cork pads for casework protection of the Torus) , and swap out some power cords. Well at least that was the initial plan.
First test was taking the amp off the Torus and going straight to the wall. While the wall may have been better than the Panamax before, now I was finding that the soundstage was about 30-40 % bigger with the Torus. Concepts like a sweet spot were thrown out, as the bloom differences were so different. I have a fairly well set up room / listening position normally, but before, head shifts were an aspect to being in the sweet spot. Sound was ok at off angles, but there was a difference. Now the bloom was so much more, that small shifts in the listening chair was moot. Amp in the Torus was a winner -but what about the other components ? Especially as I was originally attracted to the Panamax for the improvements it did to my TT at the time.
So next test was on the vinyl side. Here I decided I did not want to test out the differ-ences in the phono section itself, as I know the Slee is quite unhappy being unplugged, taking a long time to come back up to full bloom. Instead I thought I would simply play some Keith Jarrett, Koln Concert as a test of pitch and speed control for the TT motor. Started with the Panamax set to balanced power, as I normally use it. (originally with the tubed stuff, I had found that balanced had more harmonic content, while the iso-lated power option on the Panamax emphasized the leading edges of the notes) On balanced power, I thought the Panamax had a brighter more forward presentation, with a soundstage bloom about the same size as the Torus. It was also an easy option to switch to the isolated transformer option of the Panamax, by clicking one button -which showed the soundstage to be not as forward (as balanced) and actually having a bit better back detail. This was a bit different than I had found with the tubed stuff -and may be due to the change to the Bryston equipment. However -the end result showed the Torus to have a bigger soundstage than the Panamax on isolated (same as on bal-anced), tonality was better than Panamax balanced, and with the Torus, the back-ground details seemed more present coming from a blacker sense of depth. I could detect no difference in speed control between the two units.
Next test was going to be on the digital side, but this turned into really a no test. Tried to put both CDP and DAC into the Panamax, and for some reason the DAC refused to lock onto the signal, or hold it. Sort of getting a static charge tripping the DAC which was gone and lock on a non -issue as soon as I plugged things into the Torus. I took this as a sign of a good grounding scheme on the Torus. From what I could hear at the time, the Torus had more presence, inner detail and attack than the Panamax. Further listening since then, would also include much more bloom, to the point where things are very closely matched to the vinyl side, which I thought could never happen.
(but than is that a question of system improvements ?)
Next I thought I would do a quick swap of power cord on the tuner, going from the fil-tered circuit I normally use on the Panamax , to the Torus. I mean it is a tuner. How much difference could there be ?..Turns out a lot more. Same song starts, listen, shut tuner off, switch to Torus, turn tuner on, and same song continues. Instantly notice about a 20 % improvement in bloom, and much more detail to the notes. Things seem-ing dull on the Panamax. In this case -gains on the tuner seem more akin to an up-grade in equipment. Seemed pointless to test out the pre at this time, and since I liked what had happened so far, I just assumed things were all to the good. However, I have had further observations on this, by using the headphone section of the BP 26 (using Grado RS 2's) Some aspects may be because of improvements on the digital side made with the Torus, however using the headphones I am noticing even more bass im-pact than I have ever had, and a further separation of depth to the soundfield.
Summary:
Overall, the Torus TM 20 is quite the winner. Improvements to all things plugged into it over the Panamax. Turns out that the orange power light really is not irritating at night. There is still a small aspect to the soundstage being a bit more pulled back than I had with the Panamax but than I also realize that what I am actually getting is a very large improvement in depth to the soundstage. Details come out that I never noticed before, again from a blacker background.
A small price to pay for these improvements are that especially on the vinyl side -things have become much more revealing of the quality and condition of the LP's. Some compression of the soundstage to a digital recording compared to a tubed recording. Differences in phase very evident . Bloom aspects abound on any format -however there is a small observation. As I indicated before -I leave the equipment powered on, but when not in use, I turn the pre right down. I am now noticing that when I first turn things back up for music - the sense of bloom improves over the first 5-10 minutes, and than stabilizes. I suspect it is a case of the transformer in the Torus charging up.
Afterwards there seems to be the bloom with more ease to the sound. At this point, you can turn the volume down , and still maintain a bit more bass impact and detail at a quieter volume setting than I ever had pre Torus, or leave the volume and enjoy a very nice sonic treat. I do find every piece of music seems to have it;s own sweet spot of how much power it needs to open up, but with the Torus everything just sounds better.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I know it is a bit long, but than I also know that there has been very little said about the Torus units so far. Hopefully you will find it useful.
Ciao, Tony
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Nice Review and meaningful noise mearsurement on Torus 10 amp unit,
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/accessory-reviews/power-conditioners/torus-rm-10-power-conditioner-isolation-and-protection-unit.html
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Another great Torus Review.
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/torus_power_rm10.htm
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Hi All,
I just realized that we have accumulated quite a few impressive reviews on Torus over the past 2 years.
So here's a link to all the reviews on the Torus website.
http://www.toruspower.com/news.htm
james
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Hello James,
To avoid confusion of prospective international buyers of Torus units, it would be nice if photos or drawings of the back panel showing all the three outlet options are in their website somewhere.
Thank you,
KS
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Hello James,
To avoid confusion of prospective international buyers of Torus units, it would be nice if photos or drawings of the back panel showing all the three outlet options are in their website somewhere.
Thank you,
KS
Hi,
OK good idea - I will pass it along.
james
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Oops! They already have those outlet pictures in the updated August 2008 brochure. :oops:
http://www.toruspower.com/pdf_files/Torus%206%20page%20August%202008.pdf
So, James, is it possible to special order, at my own risk, to have international 240V version with 20A/125VAC spec, US style, outlets? Otherwise, I'll have to re-terminate all my 10 power cords or so to the German/Schuko style plugs and dedicate them to the Torus unit only (won't be able to use with other household wall outlets, all of which are in US-style).
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I guess the answer would be no.
Anyway, James, what kind of male plugs can be used with the IEC outlets on the normal Torus Int'l models? Could you please show me photos or link to those? I think it's cheaper for me to reterminate my AC cables with those male plugs instead, because the number of outlets for Torus 8A Int'l Ger are only 5 as oppose to 10 IEC outlets in normal 8A Int'l unit.
Thank you.
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I guess the answer would be no.
Anyway, James, what kind of male plugs can be used with the IEC outlets on the normal Torus Int'l models? Could you please show me photos or link to those? I think it's cheaper for me to reterminate my AC cables with those male plugs instead, because the number of outlets for Torus 8A Int'l Ger are only 5 as oppose to 10 IEC outlets in normal 8A Int'l unit.
Thank you.
Hi Klao,
Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.
james
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Hi James,
because most of the post concern American market and the information provided by the Torus Power web
does not cover all aspects about what should be recommended power consumption of the units connected to the PIU.
Presently I have modest system, but if I am going to buy PIU I have to consider further upgrade of the system.
Up to which model of Bryston amplifier could be hooked to RM8 INT`l?
Daniel
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Hi Klao,
Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.
james
AS of AUGUST 2008, INTERNATIONAL SERIES ARE AVAILABLE in 3 STYLES:
IEC OUTLETS
GERMAN STYLE OUTLETS
UK STYLE OUTLETS
Does the above from the Torus Website not say otherwise?
I too am not keen on changing my cabling to UK style so that I can use a International Series Torus.
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Hi Klao,
Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.
james
AS of AUGUST 2008, INTERNATIONAL SERIES ARE AVAILABLE in 3 STYLES:
IEC OUTLETS
GERMAN STYLE OUTLETS
UK STYLE OUTLETS
Does the above from the Torus Website not say otherwise?
I too am not keen on changing my cabling to UK style so that I can use a International Series Torus.
Sorry I guess I was not very clear - the Torus units are still available with IEC outlets but not USA 'U' Ground style plugs with 240 volt output.
james
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Hi James,
because most of the post concern American market and the information provided by the Torus Power web
does not cover all aspects about what should be recommended power consumption of the units connected to the PIU.
Presently I have modest system, but if I am going to buy PIU I have to consider further upgrade of the system.
Up to which model of Bryston amplifier could be hooked to RM8 INT`l?
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
The 240 Volt RM-8 would be OK with 2-7B's at 8 ohms. Most source gear does not draw much amperage at all so your concern is mainly the amplifiers used. Some Video Projectors will take 2-3 amps as well.
james
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Hi James,
tnx for quick responce.I suppose that I can`t go so high for the moment and near future.
What I wonder is do the Bryston products could deal with most of the problems like line noise or the the solution is too expensive to be implemented in every unit? Question is " Is this worth the price of Torus Power for improvement of the system?''
Daniel
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Hi James,
tnx for quick responce.I suppose that I can`t go so high for the moment and near future.
What I wonder is do the Bryston products could deal with most of the problems like line noise or the the solution is too expensive to be implemented in every unit? Question is " Is this worth the price of Torus Power for improvement of the system?''
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
It's a tough question to answer because there are many types of power supply designs out there and the Torus would definitely help on some (EX: switching supplies). If your just looking at 'noise' on the line any well designed power supply will reject noise reasonably well.
I guess my best advice given Bryston gear would be that the 'Source' gear (CD player, Preamps etc.) have very good linear power supply design and putting a Torus in front of them for noise reduction purposes 'only' would not provide that much better performance.
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
The other main benefit of the Torus is Spike and Lightning Surge protection using Series Mode Surge protection (NOT MOV's - which are sacrificial components)
As for noise the Torus Isolation transformer will start to filter noise at about 2K whereas most simply filters do not start filtering till above 10K
james
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Hi James,
your post gave me complete answer to all my thoughts.
thanks again
Daniel
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Hi All,
Please see below:
MEMO To: All Torus Customers:
SUBJECT: 2008 MUST HAVE PRODUCT
Editor's Picks: 14 Must-Have Products From 2008
CE Pro editor Bob Archer rounds up the best products he saw demoed or reviewed from 2008.
Torus RM-15 Power Conditioner
The competitively priced RM-15 is a 15-amp component that includes 10 outlets.
It also has the ability to protect against 6,000 volts/3,000 amp surges, noise filtration and rack mounting options.
The quality and power protection approach used by Torus provides homeowners with a well-engineered product that they’ll never notice once it’s installed.
http://www.cepro.com/slideshow/image/3984/
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Great reviews of the Torus gear, very nice. I am curious if anyone has had an opportunity to compare the Torus units to the Furman Reference series products. I have a Furman IT-Reference (the original Reference product I think, it's equivalent product would be the IT-Reference 20i today) in which I have 2 4B-SSTs , a 6B-SST and a Paradigm Servo-15 subwoofer connected to it along with my other gear. I am curious if there would be any improvement moving to a Torus unit and if so what Torus model I would need. I also have the Furman SPR20i for voltage regulation in which my spill over components are connected along with a second Paradigm Servo-15. My IT-Reference is connected to the SPR 20i as well because the voltage in my apartment varies from 116-127. The reason for the second subwoofer being plugged into the SPR-20i is two fold, first, it's located too far away from my IT-Reference for it's included power cord and secondly the Furman IT-Reference has only 4 dedicated power amp outlets so I wanted to use the remaining 8 for the intended non power amplifer components.
Thanks,
Rod
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Great reviews of the Torus gear, very nice. I am curious if anyone has had an opportunity to compare the Torus units to the Furman Reference series products. I have a Furman IT-Reference (the original Reference product I think, it's equivalent product would be the IT-Reference 20i today) in which I have 2 4B-SSTs , a 6B-SST and a Paradigm Servo-15 subwoofer connected to it along with my other gear. I am curious if there would be any improvement moving to a Torus unit and if so what Torus model I would need. I also have the Furman SPR20i for voltage regulation in which my spill over components are connected along with a second Paradigm Servo-15. My IT-Reference is connected to the SPR 20i as well because the voltage in my apartment varies from 116-127. The reason for the second subwoofer being plugged into the SPR-20i is two fold, first, it's located too far away from my IT-Reference for it's included power cord and secondly the Furman IT-Reference has only 4 dedicated power amp outlets so I wanted to use the remaining 8 for the intended non power amplifer components.
Thanks,
Rod
Hi Rod,
Furman builds quality gear but I can not seem to find out from the reviews and the website what type of 'Surge Protection' they are using or if it is an 'Isolation Transformer' or just a 'Filter'?
james
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That's a good question, I honestly don't know. I think the documentation I got with both pieces is the same as what's on the Furman website (manuals and data sheets)
Rod
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Hi James,
Soundstage's reviewer on Torus RM15 said "(voltage regulation will be available soon)". Care to elaborate please, and would that increase prices a bit? Thanks.
Klao
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Hi James,
Soundstage's reviewer on Torus RM15 said "(voltage regulation will be available soon)". Care to elaborate please, and would that increase prices a bit? Thanks.
Klao
Hi Klao,
Yes it will be an additional $600-700.
james
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TORUS Power Introduces AVR Series Power Conditioners
Peterborough, Ontario January, 2009 —Torus Power (www.toruspower.com) has announced the introduction of the AVR Series of power conditioning products, which compliments the existing line of Torus Power products. The AVR line (Automatic Voltage Regulation) provides all the advantages of the original Torus Power designs, such as ultra-clean AC power, complete isolation from the outside power grid and series-mode surge suppression, plus the added benefit of stabilized voltage to connected equipment.
Torus Power AVR series for the North American market includes six models:
•RM10 AVR – 10 Amp (2 rack height)
•RM15 AVR – 15Amp (3 rack height)
•RM20 AVR – 20 Amp (required dedicated 20A outlet) (3 rack height)
•RM20 BAL AVR – 20Amp (requires dedicated 240V balanced input and 20A) (3 rack height)
•RM45 BAL AVR (4 rack height)
•RM60 BAL AVR (4 rack height)
The AVR series has been engineered to maintain optimal voltage (115 to 125 volts at 60Hz) and current to connected audio/video equipment, enabling devices to perform at their best. With stabilized voltages, power amplifiers can provide their full rated power regardless of variations in input voltage. Should a fault condition occur (anything lower than 85 or higher than 135 volts), the Torus AVR units will automatically turn off, protecting all associated electronics. “By adding the AVR series to the existing Torus lineup, we now have compelling products that provide power isolation, automatic voltage regulation, and automatic voltage protection all within a single component,” explained sales VP James Tanner.
Torus AVR units also feature a dimmable front panel display indicating input voltage, output voltage, and output current. A 12-volt trigger input allows the unit to be switched on for system automation, and a 12-volt trigger output is available to switch on an external device in case of a fault condition. AVR models also include an Ethernet interface with built-in web browser, allowing homeowners to view voltage and current readings or turn ON/OFF their Torus Power unit from any Internet-connected computer.
Function Summary
•Measure and display input voltage
•Measure and display output voltage
•Measure and display output current
•Monitor under (85V) and over (135V) input voltage conditions; user to select whether to remove power or continue to operate; user to select whether to restore power when the voltage is back in range; display condition
•Adjust output voltage by switching transformer taps using the timing sequence specified
•Monitor a 12V trigger input to power on/off (back panel mounted)
•Monitor the 17 onboard relays for correct switching operation and if a fault is detected, display the
fault condition
•Ethernet interface with built in WEB browser. Allow any computer to view the voltage and current readings and turn on or off the PIU
•12V output trigger to switch on external device in case of fault condition (i.e UPS)
•Optional control system interface
The RM 15 AVR and RM 20 AVR will be on display at CES 2009 (Venetian Bassano Ballroom 2601). The Torus Power AVR Series is expected to ship to authorized dealers February, 2009. MSRP pricing is TBA. Worldwide distribution for Torus Power products is handled by audio electronics manufacturer, Bryston, LTD.
About Torus: The design objective behind the Torus power isolation units (PIU’s) was to provide a no-compromise AC power conditioning solution to improve audio/video equipment performance based on true isolation, as well as equipment protection based on non-MOV (metal oxide varistors) surge suppression technology. Many products in the PIU category are simple filters and do not provide isolation between the outside power grid and the inside power source. The Torus PIU’s deliver true isolation along with low source impedance and ample instantaneous current for today’s most sophisticated and powerful audiophile amplifiers, home theater systems, and video playback equipment.
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Great news James. :thumb:
Any pics yet of the new AVR series ?
I've been scanning the Torus site for updates.
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No Pics yet -keeping it a secret till the CES Show.
james
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Very interesting development. Nice. So will these effectively replace the existing line of products or will this be an additional series and the original line remain? Looking at the first line of the press release you posted it reads to me that the 2 lines will co-exist and your reposne to Klao a few posts back suggests that as well.
Thanks,
Rod
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Very interesting development. Nice. So will these effectively replace the existing line of products or will this be an additional series and the original line remain? Looking at the first line of the press release you posted it reads to me that the 2 lines will co-exist and your reposne to Klao a few posts back suggests that as well.
Thanks,
Rod
Hi Rod,
Yes they will co-exist. There is still some discussion going on here that voltage regulation is really not all that critical with well designed power supplies unless they are fairly severe - 10%/20% or more fluctuations.
Plus Switching Power Supplies like those used in a lot of equipment these days could care less what the voltage feed is. So we felt the voltage regulation should be optional rather than standard cost for our customers.
james
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Thanks James
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James,
on a scale from '1 to 10' you said that getting speakers right is a 9. changing speaker cables to improve sound is a 2.
what position would have a Torus from '1 to 10' ?
al.
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James,
on a scale from '1 to 10' you said that getting speakers right is a 9. changing speaker cables to improve sound is a 2.
what position would have a Torus from '1 to 10' ?
al.
I would say a 5.
james
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Hi James,
Can the RM8 AVR (int'l) be special ordered with ten IEC 10A outlets, instead of the five UK/German outlets? Have the prices been officially announced to your dealers?
Thanks,
Klao
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Hi James,
Can the RM8 AVR (int'l) be special ordered with ten IEC 10A outlets, instead of the five UK/German outlets? Have the prices been officially announced to your dealers?
Thanks,
Klao
HI Klao,
Yes we still offer the IEC outlets and there are 10 on the back of the International 8A unit. Yes the prices are available to the Bryston distributor.
james
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Hi James,
Can the RM8 AVR (int'l) be special ordered with ten IEC 10A outlets, instead of the five UK/German outlets? Have the prices been officially announced to your dealers?
Thanks,
Klao
HI Klao,
Yes we still offer the IEC outlets and there are 10 on the back of the International 8A unit. Yes the prices are available to the Bryston distributor.
james
Thank you, James. It seems the AVR unit add 3 more inches on the depth of the RM8 unit (18.5" vs 15.5"). What are the actual footprints of the RM8 AVR and non-AVR units? My rack's shelf space is only 19.5" W x 15.5" D. Cheers.
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Hi Klao,
I do not believe the AVR adds any length to the chassis depth - where did you see that?
james
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I think they add more depths to N.American models as well?
RM8 Non-AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x15.5x5.2 (483x394x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/bx8_int.htm
RM8 AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x18.5x5.25 (483x470x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/pdf_files/New%20Torus%20AVR%20Series.pdf
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I think they add more depths to N.American models as well?
RM8 Non-AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x15.5x5.2 (483x394x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/bx8_int.htm
RM8 AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x18.5x5.25 (483x470x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/pdf_files/New%20Torus%20AVR%20Series.pdf
I will check.
james
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I think they add more depths to N.American models as well?
RM8 Non-AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x15.5x5.2 (483x394x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/bx8_int.htm
RM8 AVR: Size (w x d x h)(mm): 19x18.5x5.25 (483x470x133)
http://www.toruspower.com/pdf_files/New%20Torus%20AVR%20Series.pdf
Hi Klao,
I'm wrong - Your right!
There is an increase in depth size if you get the AVR version.
james
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Torus - Customer Feedback:
From: Ezra
Sent: Fri 2/13/2009 9:29 PM
To: jamestanner@bryston.ca
Subject: TORUS POWER CONDITIONERS
James Tanner, my dear sir,
I am now well enough to give you my thoughts concerning the excellent Torus power unit. It is the best power conditioner that I know of, and I have had many. It cleaned up my power and stabilized it like you wouldn’t believe.
My soundstage got taller wider and deeper. It became very quiet with image stabilization like I didn’t know was possible. Blacker back ground and oh the extension in the bass and treble and aahh the all important midrange the Torus left nothing untouched. NO suppression of dynamics which was my complaint with every conditioner I ever tried.
I now own five of the big units and soon I will buy a sixth as I want one on each of my eight monoblocks. Thank-you Bryston and thank-you James. A feather in your cap my dear Mr Tanner, man did you steer me right.
Thank you for your patience,
Cheer's,
Ezra
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With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
James, I just e-mailed you the same question. Regards, James
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
James, I just e-mailed you the same question. Regards, James
Yes I have a call in to Torus on this -Monday is a holiday in Ontario.
james
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February 2009
Hi James,
I received the Torus units last Tuesday and wanted to let the electronics settle before giving you my impressions.
As one reviewer from Manitoba commented, the first hours are better forgotten since the units are just getting broken in. As a result, the stage is pushed back and the midrange is pinched. Yet the image appears wider and the silence is indeed silent. Not to despair but the initial impression could be disheartening if one is not prepared for this breaking in period. A few hours later though, it already sounded much better and the dynamic balance was returning. Every day brought back an ease that the system used to have but with a cleaner sound yet a tad less present…
Fast forward to a week later, and the Torus influence is now close to full power. The improvement is a wider, stable stage, silence being truly silent redefining the threshold of sound. Most importantly the high midrange to treble register has been cleaned of any hint of aggressiveness. As a result, and to counter the impression of a slight veil, I had to bring the 2446 JBL horns an extra 2 dB forward each not only to restore a dynamic balance but to purely and simply unleash the magic: never ever did the system sound so free, precise, clean, undistorted, alive, soft and involving at the same time!
Obviously before, the slight toning down of those powerful horns was a compromise in order to compensate the dirty power effect on this frequency range, i.e. introduction of what must have been some aggressive transients. The treble has now a richer tone and feels more extended. With the 2242 JBL 18” I was used to great controlled bass and that part has not changed and regardless of the time of the day, the system is not affected by the quality of power.
So James, clearly the two Torus RM 15 have not only provided me with a good workout… but with bringing the JBL pro monitoring system to a reference level you only find in studios. A very sensible purchase indeed.
Best regards,
Dr. Marc Villéger
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CUSTOMER FEEDBACK:
James, you helped me with some pre-purchase questions and I’d like to pass on some very positive feedback from my RM-10 and BCD-1 experience: both products work very well and I’ve been particularly impressed with the RM-10. I’ve changed CD players before and had a general idea of what to expect, but had never tried any kind of power filter/conditioner/isolator before. So, since I live in a condo building I thought I might be more subject to power line noise than a house so thought some basic conditioning might be a good idea.
WOW.
I’m amazed that such a ‘simple’ change can yield such a noticeable improvement. While I wouldn’t say the improvement(s) were dramatic, they were definitely significant and more than justify the RM-10 investment. Here’s the comment you gave me pre-purchase:
”I think you would find everything sounds more relaxed and easier to hear small details in the music with the Torus. The noise floor gets lowered and you really can hear more into things.”
This was exactly my experience and I’d add that my soundstage is definitely more 3-dimensional. I have two sources, a tuner and a BCD-1 and I’ve noticed the most pronounced change with the tuner. I had only had the BCD-1 for a little while before receiving the RM-10, so maybe my ears were not as accustomed to the BCD-1 sound as with my tuner?
Anyway, I am very pleased with both components.
Thanks for your advice.
*********
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With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
Does anybody know the peak current requirments for the 14B or pair of 7B's? Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using the 400 amp current reserve of the RM20?
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Does anybody know what the maximum peak current requirements would be for the 14B or pair of 7B's. Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using such a large current reserve as 400 amps?
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
The thing you have to understand about this is we are talking about INSTANTANIOUS CURRENT DRAW on VERY SHORT TERM PEAKS. This is NOT CONTINUOUS current requirements.
Excerpt from Torus information sheet:
Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier
Torus power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp Torus PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A Torus 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.
So as the size of the amplifier goes up the amount of short term current it can draw increases as well. The speaker load would ultimately be the deciding factor in how much current needs to be delivered at any specific time.
Another important point is that the amplifier is drawing current from the 'Magnetic Field' between the primary and the secondary of the isolation transformer in the Torus - not directly from the wall.
james
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
Hi MoonDoggy,
Your answer sir:
Hello James,
The 400 Amps PEAK for the RM 20 is a reference to the maximum instantaneous peak current that the fusing of the unit allows to pass before failing.
This current is typically around 15 to 20 times the nominal current, therefore, for the RM 2.5 and RM 10 are around 50 A peak and 200 A peak.
The transformer has no problem to deliver this instantaneous power with no compromise on the quality of the voltage waveform.
Thanks,
Henry Pajooman
Torus
Research Engineer
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Does anybody know what the maximum peak current requirements would be for the 14B or pair of 7B's. Would these amps (or the 28B's for that matter) ever come close to using such a large current reserve as 400 amps?
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
The thing you have to understand about this is we are talking about INSTANTANIOUS CURRENT DRAW on VERY SHORT TERM PEAKS. This is NOT CONTINUOUS current requirements.
Excerpt from Torus information sheet:
Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier
Torus power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp Torus PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A Torus 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.
So as the size of the amplifier goes up the amount of short term current it can draw increases as well. The speaker load would ultimately be the deciding factor in how much current needs to be delivered at any specific time.
Another important point is that the amplifier is drawing current from the 'Magnetic Field' between the primary and the secondary of the isolation transformer in the Torus - not directly from the wall.
james
Sorry James, I didn't mean to irritate you with my question. I'm just trying to understand how what the Torus provides in the way of instantaneous peak current relates to what the 14B or 7B's need for these maximum peaks. The explanation in bold print almost answers my question but it states what a 200 watt amp would require without mentioning the speaker load the 200 watts is serving. It also states that this figure will increase with larger amps but doesn't say what the progression rate is. So my question specifically is what peak instantaneous maximum current requirement would the 14B or 7B's require at 4 ohms? I mention both the 14B and 7B because in another post you indicated the 7B has twice the capacitance of the 14B which affects the amps current delivery capabilities and resultantly what it would need from the Torus during peak instantaneous demand.
Thanks,
Bill
-
^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.
james
-
With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.
james
Hi James,
The Torus website says that the RM-20 will supply 400 Amps instantaneous current. What are the instantaneous current outputs in amps for the RM-2.5, the RM-5, and the RM-10 models respectively?
Thanks, James
Hi MoonDoggy,
Your answer sir:
Hello James,
The 400 Amps PEAK for the RM 20 is a reference to the maximum instantaneous peak current that the fusing of the unit allows to pass before failing.
This current is typically around 15 to 20 times the nominal current, therefore, for the RM 2.5 and RM 10 are around 50 A peak and 200 A peak.
The transformer has no problem to deliver this instantaneous power with no compromise on the quality of the voltage waveform.
Thanks,
Henry Pajooman
Torus
Research Engineer
Thanks for the answer, James and Henry. I've set up an in home trial for the Torus RM-5 with Creative Audio after the unit gets back from another audition. Seems the power conditioners are generating a lot of interest! Cheers, James
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^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.
james
Hi;
There are several reasons for a Torus power conditioner in your system.
Among these are: Reduction of line noise, RF and other hash; protection from surge damage; and improved current supply from the line to your power amplifier. Although every amplifier has energy storage in its power-supply, more energy storage will almost always improve dynamics and focus in the amplifier. The Torus stores energy in the form of the magnetic field in its transformer. That means the current the Torus draws is more of an 'average value' from the wall, instead of the 'high peaks' the amplifier may demand.
It's true that a smaller amplifier can be expected to draw less current than a larger one, but even a 150Wpc amplifier can demand instantaneous current above 15 Amperes from the line. The 7B SST2 can demand up to 15-18 Amps peak per channel when driving 4 Ohms. The 14B SST2 can of course demand twice as much, up to over 35 Amperes for both channels into 4 Ohms.
We tend to recommend that the customer listen to the system with and without the Torus power conditioner, to establish whether the improvement is audible in that system. We find that it almost always is.
I hope the above is helpful. Thanks for thinking of Bryston.
cwr
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^ Ok I will try to get you a detailed technical answer from engineering.
james
Hi;
There are several reasons for a Torus power conditioner in your system.
Among these are: Reduction of line noise, RF and other hash; protection from surge damage; and improved current supply from the line to your power amplifier. Although every amplifier has energy storage in its power-supply, more energy storage will almost always improve dynamics and focus in the amplifier. The Torus stores energy in the form of the magnetic field in its transformer. That means the current the Torus draws is more of an 'average value' from the wall, instead of the 'high peaks' the amplifier may demand.
It's true that a smaller amplifier can be expected to draw less current than a larger one, but even a 150Wpc amplifier can demand instantaneous current above 15 Amperes from the line. The 7B SST2 can demand up to 15-18 Amps peak per channel when driving 4 Ohms. The 14B SST2 can of course demand twice as much, up to over 35 Amperes for both channels into 4 Ohms.
We tend to recommend that the customer listen to the system with and without the Torus power conditioner, to establish whether the improvement is audible in that system. We find that it almost always is.
I hope the above is helpful. Thanks for thinking of Bryston.
cwr
Thanks James. This answers my question. I agree that the best thing to do is compare performance with and without in a demo but when that's not possible the theory behind the performance is very helpful.
Bill
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James,
what is the recommendet 'distance' to place a Torus and an amplifier (or any other piece of our beloved equipment) ?
al.
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James,
what is the recommendet 'distance' to place a Torus and an amplifier (or any other piece of our beloved equipment) ?
al.
Hi Alex,
You mean in terms of performance or your concerned about noise?
james
-
James,
i was thinking of the noise a Torus could transport into another piece of equipment.
for example: the BP26 has an external power supply to prevent noise etc. what if i place the Torus -which has a huge transformer- just right beside any other technical equipment.
and i am (we are) for sure concerned about the performance...
al.
-
James,
i was thinking of the noise a Torus could transport into another piece of equipment.
for example: the BP26 has an external power supply to prevent noise etc. what if i place the Torus -which has a huge transformer- just right beside any other technical equipment.
and i am (we are) for sure concerned about the performance...
al.
Hi Alex,
The Torus uses a 'Toroid' transformer - looks like a big donut - so the magnetic field is highly concentrated around the core of the transformer.
http://bryston.com/newsletters/84_files/vol8is4.html
That being said I would not place a sensitive component like a Phono stage directly on top of the Torus or on top of a large amplifier for that matter.
james
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...hmmmmmm, i love donuts!
al.
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James,
what about the power consumption of a Torus?
al.
-
James,
what about the power consumption of a Torus?
al.
TORUS CURRENT DRAW WITH NO-LOAD 240V/50Hz
Int 1A: 0.11A
Int 2A: 0.12A
Int 4A: 0.56A
Int 8A: 0.67A
Int 16A: 1.05A
james
-
thanks, James.
al.
-
James,
i was thinking of the noise a Torus could transport into another piece of equipment.
for example: the BP26 has an external power supply to prevent noise etc. what if i place the Torus -which has a huge transformer- just right beside any other technical equipment.
and i am (we are) for sure concerned about the performance...
al.
Hi Alex,
The Torus uses a 'Toroid' transformer - looks like a big donut - so the magnetic field is highly concentrated around the core of the transformer.
http://bryston.com/newsletters/84_files/vol8is4.html
That being said I would not place a sensitive component like a Phono stage directly on top of the Torus or on top of a large amplifier for that matter.
james
James,
can i place a Torus directly beside and/or on top of a Torus?
al.
-
HI Alex,
No problem stacking a Torus on another Torus.
james
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Hello James,
I demoed the Torus BX 5 from Creative Audio today. I was impressed by the unit - especially the way it handles the complex bass passages. It helps increase the speed of my amp but it also makes the music more relaxed sounding. My current conditioner is highly rated at filtering RF, EM, and digital hash but the Torus improved in that area as well.
Thanks for answering my questions and convincing me to give the unit a tryout.
Best regards,
James Saul
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I demoed the Torus BX 5 from Creative Audio today. I was impressed by the unit
I liked it so much I had to buy the BX10! The BX 5 was under rated RMS current wise for my set up and it still sounded amazing. Can't wait to hear the BX 10. Its on order! :thumb:
James
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James,
Torus also has units like the BX 1 Int'l with only one outlet. would a preamp like the 26 (at least the whole system) benefit from this
installation?
thanx,
al.
-
James,
Torus also has units like the BX 1 Int'l with only one outlet. would a preamp like the 26 (at least the whole system) benefit from this
installation?
thanx,
al.
James,
would it make sense to use a Torus that way? or is a Torus mainly made for amplifiers only...?
al.
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A Torus Review From The Far East -I love the fact that he LISTENED
desirable audio boutique 欲望:音响
Power Struggle? Torus Power RM8A.
The Torus Power RM8A.[/b]
James of AV Designs called, "hey, are you having problems with the Torus Power?" I replied, "No, why would you say so?" James responded, "I just saw your posting called Power Struggle?, with a picture of the Pure Power and the Torus side by side".
In truth, I actually struggled to review the Torus Power RM8A, because every time I sit down and play some of my favorite music through my hifi system, with intention to evaluate it's performance and how it subjectively changes the sound perceived, I always end up just flipping thru disc after disc, for a few hours, drawn in to and subconsciously unaware, lost in music! Totally forgetting to do my evaluations just minutes in to the first song! And that, is no bad start. James must be relieved to hear that.
The Torus Power is a 32kg beast of a PLC, which required again, the help of another good friend to help me haul it up in to my first floor audio cave. The build quality is first class inside out, as should be for a top price point PLC costing RM$18K! Unlike the Pure Power reviewed the week before, with it's high tech, sophisticated look, the Torus sports a rather plain if very sturdy look. There's no fancy blue dot matrix display, no multi function settings to monitor or set. Just a plain "ON/OFF" switch on the left side that glows half orange when switched "ON". At the back panel is a standard 10A rated IEC input and only 5 British 13A style outputs! I wish there was at least 6 outputs (8 would be even better!), that way I can power my whole system via the Torus Power RM8A. James, care to advise Torus Power to be more generous with the outlets, if possible?
The theory of Torus Power as per explained by Richard of Pure Power (whom knows his competitors well!), uses a huge transformer to isolate the audio system, plugged in to it, from the rest of the power grid in your house and quite possibly your neighborhood! I tested the Torus Power RM8A by using a multi meter and found the input is indeed completely isolated from the output. However, I also found the same daisy chaining of the outlets as per Pure Power practice, but only after a filter and protection circuit board (seen on the right hand side of the internal picture). It would seems that both the Canadian companies choose to do things differently from their American and British competitors, whom seems to place more faith in individual or duplex output filtering.
The simple insides, the secret is in the giant isolation, balanced transformer, which sits on custom mounted brackets with sorbothane like material for insulation againts vibrations(which I never felt with hand placed on top of unit). Note the filter and protection circuit board on the top right, some say because of that, the right most (viewed from this pic) output sounds the best and should be used for source.
The sound, the Sound, oh.... the SOUND! With the Torus Power RM8A powering my Marantz CD7, Pass x-2.5 Pre and Aleph 0 Mono blocks, all the best virtues of my system is enhanced. The already warmish tonal flavor of the system blossomed in to a rich, full aroma gold blend coffee like "kau""kau", sensation. It's sound?, the mids are thick in density yet smooth in the highs, leaving no after taste what so ever. The bass, while not iron fist-ed like presented with the Pure Power, is just very tune full and bouncy. It doesn't make my amps sound like it's on steroids, neither did it make my speaker sound like it's grown a pair of 8 inch woofers either! It's forte is micro dynamics rather than macro dynamics! Every thing sounded as it should be, only with the musical emotion factor brought to the fore. There's a certain way the music flows through the system powered by the Torus Power RM8A. Call it P.R.A.T. but not like Naim style, which is fast and bouncy. This P.R.A.T. factor here is of the rather relaxed kind, it lulls the audiophile in me with a sense of serenity, while the music slowly but surely, does it's magic to disarm all my audiophile prejudices, and just allow me to subconsciously flow in to the music, connecting with it's emotional message. This elusive quality (seeked by so many, yet never knew it, but seldom found on systems at any price point) my fellow readers, is what separates the merely good hifi from a system with greatness!
My self, and a few other lucky souls included, have already witness the greatness in the by now legendary LS3/5A speaker, vintage amps based system of Mr Jo Ki. Jo has always waxed lyrical on the profound influence of the Torus Power RM8A had at shaping the sound of his system today. With the Torus Power RM8A in my system and from this brief experience, I can, finally relate to his point of view, because I can too, finally, experience musical playback at a higher emotional connecting level, stimulating goose bumps inducing sensory to boot. This experience is priceless, and one will not know that it's there until one experiences it. A hifi system playing music without this sensation, no matter how good it's audiophile qualities are, is just like watching the "Happy New Year's fireworks!" each year, very nice but also pretty pointless once the shows over.
O.K. back to the audiophile reality, the noise level of the system is the most silent that I've ever heard. The overall sound presentation is very coherent, almost liquid like yet very tidy. Images are solidly anchored within a sound stage (almost like you're there too!) which is beyond room boundaries, and very clear perception of depth, should a recording contains the spatial information. In live concert hall recordings, like the Jacky Cheung Live 2004, the hall ambiance is convincingly reproduced and the band backing Jacky Chueng can be clearly heard arranged in layers just behind the solid image in front, which is Jacky himself. Audience hand claps are also very realistic, very important if you need convincing yourself to "be there!".
I have a little poem, context taken and modified from a U2 song which nicely describes the at odds behavior of the Torus Power RM8A that I've experienced.
It's silent yet never dark.
It's dynamic yet doesn't thrill.
It's substance yet without style.
It's loud yet never noisy.
Greatness in a box!
By now you can probably tell, that when hifikaki takes the Torus Power away for a counter point, to see if it effectively solves the dreaded Bandar Utama power supply quality issues, I'll be having a tough time re-adjusting to the cruelty called reality! The reality is I can't afford the Torus Power RM8A at this point in time now (with bad news coming in every single day about the impending and what could be a long lasting "Great Recession!"), but I know that I have found the last piece in my equipment chain of intended purchase, the final piece that brings greatness to my system. For my system and subjectively, my ears(certainly not healthy for my bank a/c), the Torus Power RM8A (or may be the RM16A?) is still the best PLC out there today!
A Technical note: Balanced transformer? What's does it do to our music? Just like our XLR balanced interconnects, the "positive" and "negative" signal cores run along side within the cable, thus canceling out each other's noise, resulting in lower overall audible noise floor. A balanced transformer works the in the same manner where both the "live" and "neutral" carrier core is winded along side each other, thereby cancelling, each other's inherent noise, there by lowering the audible noise floor.
Torus Power is sold by AV Designs, contact James Tan, tel:03-21712828
Reviewed by Panzer
Labels: hifi journey, hifi review [/color]
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Yep they are,the Torus are KEEPERS :thumb:.
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desirable audio boutique 欲望:音响 REVIEW PART 2
Panzer has been waxing lyrical about the Torus Power RM-8 In'tl power line conditioner; he even has a love poem for it :-) With an endorsement like that, how can I resist listening to the Torus Power RM-8 myself? Panzer is a great pal, he delivered the Torus to my place last Saturday, and, as we can see in his last post, suffered silently in withdrawal.
Well, I'll just cut to the chase - after a 3-day listening period, I admit that I am now firmly in Panzer's camp. I usually take longer to come to a final conclusion about a piece of hifi, but since my findings echo Panzer's, who has more extensive experience with the Torus, I believe my feeling is right.
Admirably, the RM-8 displayed its excellent performance even with all the cards stacked against it. First is the powercord from the wall, since mine is a Shunyata Python 20A version for my Shunyata Hydra 8, while the Torus Power RM-8 takes a 15A cord, I have to substitute with a stock powercord that came with my Pass Labs amp. Second, as the Torus Power RM-8 Int'l comes with UK style outlets, I have to use adapters for all the powercords from it to my equipment.
With all these limitations, I would not consider what I am writing as a review of the Torus Power RM-8, just take it as a person's listening experience then. The RM-8 needs some warming up period, about 2-3 hours, after that, as I left the unit powered on permanently, its temperature (just warm to the touch) and performance stabilized. Throughout all my listening sessions, my entire system sounded more confident, it was as if my Eggleston Works The Nine loudspeakers were saying, "Yes, finally this is a signal that I can really work with". All the twists and turn, dynamic swings, subtle cues and broad strokes in the music came through clearly. It is quite unbelievable that I was listening to many smeared and veiled moments in music before the Torus Power RM-8.
Take Hugh Masekela's 'Hope' CD, the spontaneous shouts and applause among the live audience never sounded so well defined and so well separated. Previously, the vocal and saxophone could sound slightly hard and shrill at certain points in the recording, but with the RM-8 in place, these artifacts were totally cleaned up. The entire recording sounded natural and unforced, even at the most explosive moments. Compared to the
Shunyata Hydra 8 that I am using now, I have to say that my system performs better with the Torus Power RM-8, as it should be at close to 3 times the price of the Shunyata. Shunyata may portray vocal, especially female, a little more colourfully and sultrily, while the Torus Power sounds really neutral, at the end of the day it would be the listener's preference that it will come down to. However, in other aspects, Torus Power is indeed ahead.
From what Panzer writes, we know he takes the Torus Power RM-8 as the leading contender for the king of PLC hill. Though there are a number of others that we have not heard, I believe he is not far off the mark. Not at all.
hifikaki
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I'll chime as I had Shunyatas,Hydra 6,and 4 hydra 2s.when I had tried the Torus(s)
sound wise,it was as dramatic as stereo is to mono,night & day that's for sure.
I love components,where you don't have to think you hear an improvement,It's just there.
All my hydras had separate dedicated lines also.I'll never stop saying it or telling people
to at least try a Torus and if they love their music,they'll wonder how the music got along without it :D..
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desirable audio boutique 欲望:音响 TORUS REVIEW PART 3
Are you ready for the shock?
Let's cut to the chase - if you are not ready for the shock, don't audition the Torus. It is going to change your paradigm about accuracy and high definition, among others. Let me state that I am auditioning the Torus with the highly annoying US-to-UK convertors, which I dread, so the Torus' performance here is a compromised one.
The best disc to illustrate Torus' strengths is none other than 2v1g. A lot of people have told me that they can't differentiate Winnie from Regine, or vice versa. once you listen to how the Torus separates the two voices, you would then realize that the two ladies are a world apart in tone and expression. Many PLCs, including my hydra 8, didn't do a good job in making these two voices distinctive and unique. This aspect of Torus gets my highest praise - this is high-definition of the highest order. In fact, get any disc with many voices and see how Torus separates each and every one of them and give them their own character.
Another winning aspect of Torus is its accuracy. Tonally, the Torus is on the cool side of neutral, very much like audio magic stealth reference, without the sizzle. This accuracy lends a superb realism to voices in terms of diction and pitching. whether it is Rickie Lee Jones or 2v1g or Cai Qin, you could hear every word coming from the singer's mouth with shocking clarity, diction and correct pitching. No other PLC comes close in this aspect. hifikaki was uuh-ing and aah-ing when he heard the 2v1g CD being played thru Torus.
How does it compare to hydra 8 in other areas? Well, you know me, I always love analogy. pitting the two is like comparing a girlfriend/mistress to a wife. Hydra 8 is flirtatious, seductive, desirable and colorful, always obliging (and could occasionally tell a lie or two just to please you), the perfect girlfriend. Torus is the wife, ever faithful, honest, reliable, compassionate and does her duty quietly. The hydra dresses up the music with make-up whereas the Torus does not believe in cosmetics. true, the torus does not have the hydra's femme fatale kind of seductiveness, neither does it have the voluptuousness of body and harmonic richness of the hydra but it plays music with so much conviction that you would think that is how real music should sound like. Music thru the hydra 8 is like looking thru the world with a technicolor glasses; with Torus, the glasses are perfectly clear, perfectly spec-ed and albeit a bit unglamorous.
The Torus' major strengths lie in its honesty, definition and accuracy. If you prize these criteria with top priority then this is simply the best PLC there is. but Torus is not perfect. in achieving this astounding level of accuracy and definition, it does come across as a bit thin, solid-state-y, dry and careful/cautious. Of course, I am not discounting the fact that i am using a generic 15A power cord and the terrible US to-UK adapters.
Some married men never stop having girlfriends till old age because they are bored with their wives at early stage. some married men keep girlfriend(s) at the early stage of their marriage because it is exciting but ultimately when they are tired and old, they go home to the warmth of their wives. Some men, once they get married, would never consider extra-marital affairs because their wives are the best. Some men don't even get married and just content of having girlfriends. Which kind of man are you?
maggielurva
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Hello everyone,
James i was looking around for this answer but i couldnt find it anywhere. Do u guys build these or are they done elsewhere? I think i am going to buy one of these Torus power plants... eventually.
thanx
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Hello everyone,
James i was looking around for this answer but i couldnt find it anywhere. Do u guys build these or are they done elsewhere? I think i am going to buy one of these Torus power plants... eventually.
thanx
Hi Werd,
It is a colaboration between the company we are buying our transformers from which we use in all our amplifiers. So they build the units and Bryston has world wide marketing rights.
james
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Werd,if you can, see if you can audition the Torus from your audio dealer,you'll be shocked and you won't want to give it back,heck you might even take out a loan or a line of credit to get one,I don't mean to infuence you or give you any IDEAS(did I say that).If you want to take your sound up quite a few notches
,you'll never regret it(their that good).
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Werd,if you can, see if you can audition the Torus from your audio dealer,you'll be shocked and you won't want to give it back,heck you might even take out a loan or a line of credit to get one,I don't mean to infuence you or give you any IDEAS(did I say that).If you want to take your sound up quite a few notches
,you'll never regret it(their that good).
As soon as i pay off my bda -1 on line of credit.... :icon_lol: i will check this out..
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Oh great! A Torus! Something else I'll need to talk myself into...this hobby/obsession is killing my wallet. Oh well, better me than AIG!
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Hmm,That's why I work everyday,but at the end of it,it's show time.
nothing like musical satisfaction that sounds superb :D :D :D .
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How true...and then there is the educational component and the challenge of learning the theory behind excellent sound reproduction. :roll: Not to mention that fact that it keeps you off the streets as my old dad use to say. (I'm working on my rational and justification for more electronics) :oops:
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:idea: I wonder if James would let me put a Paypal jar out for donations. I need to finance this hobby somehow.... :lol: and i am not rich....
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I'm thinking more along the lines of a "Frequent Buyer" program! :)
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I am thinking more down the line of coupons but James seems kinda distant to the idea..... :scratch:
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Hello everyone
James i was wandering if the power cord on the rm-20 is one you would need to replace or is it good enough?
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^
Hi werd,
It is the same kind as we use on our amps so I have not heard of anyone replacing it --- good experiment though.
james
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Hey Werd,I did change mine out(20a balanced)with a Lessloss DFPC.
I don't know if it changed anything,all I Know is it all sounds great.
My problem is I aquire a piece of gear and I don't give her to much of a chance to settle in and then I'm
installing something else.I did chat with Liudas from Lessloss and he was saying the cords will do more going from PIU to amps or components.so I'm assuming it won't do much,but she looks good,when I look back there :lol:.
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Hey Werd,I did change mine out(20a balanced)with a Lessloss DFPC.
I don't know if it changed anything,all I Know is it all sounds great.
My problem is I aquire a piece of gear and I don't give her to much of a chance to settle in and then I'm
installing something else.I did chat with Liudas from Lessloss and he was saying the cords will do more going from PIU to amps or components.so I'm assuming it won't do much,but she looks good,when I look back there :lol:.
Is your a dual phase or single phase Drummer? It must be a single phase if u are using lessloss
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Hold on.... would i need to do any electrical modifications for the rms 20 bal. or do i just need to change my outlet in the wall? How does that work? I understand that i need a 20 amp cord but is that it? Whats better the bal or the single phase?
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If I remember right as i have a 20a Lessloss in front of me,your 20a Torus has the 20a iec,but the other end is a 15a male plug(no problem)all my retired Shunyatas were the same 20a on the unit with a 20 female and the 15a male on the end.
My 20a 240v balanced Torus takes a 20a end(same type of female plug).if you look on the Torus site,
you'll see under customer care the type of PCs there.i believe the balanced gives you more power and noise cancelation.James could clarify that and more.If you bought a 240v Torus ,you'd need a 240v source from the wall.When I first had mine I cheated and found two wall recetacles that were in phase 120v each.the cables were 2X extension cords tied into a 240v receptaclebox(female).By the way that's not legal.
I put a meter on the two and she read out 240(good to go)I just did that until I got my electrician to run me a cable from my main panel,installed me a sub panel,so I have 2X240v receptacles and 4 X15a duplexes.
hope that helps.
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Lorne,Oops I forgot on the end of my 20a cable,the end that goes to the wall is a 240v male plug which I
installed.
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Lorne,Oops I forgot on the end of my 20a cable,the end that goes to the wall is a 240v male plug which I
installed.
k now that makes sense.... :) it kinda confused me a bit.
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There's somebody in my head but is not me :icon_twisted:.
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Alan Dolyniuk @shaw.ca
Sat 4/11/2009 4:41 PM
Hi James,
Just wanted to let you know that I have been enjoying my 4BSST2 and 6BSST2 along
with the Torus RM-20 and RM-10.
I had a chance to test the Shunyata Vray against the Torus.
First test, I plugged the amps into the RM-20 and my front end components in to Shuyata. Nice, better than just the Shunyata with the front end. Though the Torus only had about 50 hours burn in time, it was still somewhat congested.
I then left the amps in the RM-20, and plugged the front end components into the RM-10. The RM-10 had 0 hrs burn in. Immediately, the system opened up, more than I expected. Flipped back and forth with the front end on the Shunyata and Torus. No contest, Shunyata is going up for sale.
Since then my system has opened up more (less congested). I find I do not have to turn the volume up as high, as I did at the beginning.
I am very happy with this configuration.
Thanks
Alan
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That's what happened to me also.I first aquired the 15a balanced Torus,then a 20a bal.
used the 15 for components and the 20 for the amps.All I can say is IT's SHOWTIME.
HUGE HUGE diference.I guess the 15a couldn't handle the 3X7Bsst's+2X4B-ssts,subs and comonents,as soon as I installed the 20a with the 15a,I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
Definately a person should ADD how much amperage you amps would like,as I found out night and day difference aa aa aa.As James said as the wall is limited to give out only so much,and the amps demand more
than what the wall can give,the Torus definately opens up the flood gates :thumb: :thumb:.
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That's what happened to me also.I first aquired the 15a balanced Torus,then a 20a bal.
used the 15 for components and the 20 for the amps.All I can say is IT's SHOWTIME.
HUGE HUGE diference.I guess the 15a couldn't handle the 3X7Bsst's+2X4B-ssts,subs and comonents,as soon as I installed the 20a with the 15a,I couldn't believe what I was hearing.
Definately a person should ADD how much amperage you amps would like,as I found out night and day difference aa aa aa.As James said as the wall is limited to give out only so much,and the amps demand more
than what the wall can give,the Torus definately opens up the flood gates :thumb: :thumb:.
I think i am going to buy one of these, just cant figure out if the rm-15 or rm-20 is better suited for my kit?
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Werd,James posted a thread(and it's on the Torus site also)what size of Torus you would need
for your gear,actually I'll send you a copy of the paper that James sent me.
If you think you are going to expand on your power then you might have to go with a bigger Torus.
E-Mail on the way :thumb:.
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Werd,James posted a thread(and it's on the Torus site also)what size of Torus you would need
for your gear,actually I'll send you a copy of the paper that James sent me.
If you think you are going to expand on your power then you might have to go with a bigger Torus.
E-Mail on the way :thumb:.
k i got it thanx Drummer. So to get it straight the rm-20 will plug into regular outlet (with a 20 amp female)but is recommended to be dedicated so as to not share current....is that correct?
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We don't need no stinking HITCH HICKERS :nono: on our dedicated Bryston,Torus circuits.
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We don't need no stinking HITCH HICKERS :nono: on our dedicated Bryston,Torus circuits.
i like that little 2.5 amp by torus. I wonder if it might be better to go with the 2.5 and rm15 instead of the rm-20. Either way i think i amgoin to sell my blue circle to help raise the moola.
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Werd,I'd let James know what you have for gear.I'm sure he'd put you right where you need to be as far as the Torus is concerned.
I think with my 60a Balanced,I could have plugged everything in there,amps,components,subs ect.
But I like my components separate,so I use the 20a bal. for my components and subs.
Just makin sure my gear don't go hungry :lol:.
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Werd,I'd let James know what you have for gear.I'm sure he'd put you right where you need to be as far as the Torus is concerned.
I think with my 60a Balanced,I could have plugged everything in there,amps,components,subs ect.
But I like my components separate,so I use the 20a bal. for my components and subs.
Just makin sure my gear don't go hungry :lol:.
I would love to go dual phase on the rm-20 but the wife would figure that out fast :nono: . An electrician running around the house, taking drywall down, its just a recipe for too many questions. I got my monster cable avs2000 that looks alot like a torus. I can sell that and mask the torus for the monster cable...... :lol:
It will be a very fast in and out kinda operation.... no questions asked....
Am i a bad husband? :scratch:
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Your asking me :o :lol:.
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It will be a very fast in and out kinda operation.... no questions asked....
Am i a bad husband? :scratch:
With the improvement in sound from the Torus even the wife could notice. :o My son who rarely hears the difference an expensive upgrade makes to the sound immediately noticed the improvement with the Torus I demoed.
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Hi James
I was wandering if the 120 volt can be easily converted to the 240 volt at a later date? If i buy a single phase am i able to easily change to dual phase (can it even be done) ? I really want one of these but i kinda stuck in the mud as to what i need/want.
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I'd do dual phase,because YOU WANT ONE,and there's not a big price difference.
I bet 300-400 dollars an electrician could fix you up with materials+labour,( batteries not inc :lol:)..
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Hi James
I was wandering if the 120 volt can be easily converted to the 240 volt at a later date? If i buy a single phase am i able to easily change to dual phase (can it even be done) ? I really want one of these but i kinda stuck in the mud as to what i need/want.
Hi werd,
NO the 240 and the 120 volt Torus units use completely different transformers.
james
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I'd do dual phase,because YOU WANT ONE,and there's not a big price difference.
I bet 300-400 dollars an electrician could fix you up with materials+labour,( batteries not inc :lol:)..
It probably depends on where the electrical box is in relation to the receptacle. When the house was going up (12 yrs. ago) I had them put a single receptacle on its own circuit in addition to what was on the wall where the system was going. They did use a 20 amp breaker but just 14 gauge wire (I didn't specify - obviously I would do it differently today). I finished the basement about 4 years back (have another system down there) and where the wall is to the main room upstairs it is now finished basement. It would probably cost me more than 300-400 dollars to have someone rip up and repair what is finished just to have the electrical work done.
I just ordered a 20 amp Torus last week (I'll use my other power conditioners in the bedroom and basement systems). It will be fine for my 14BSST, my SP 1.7, and source components (e.g. BCD-1, Blu-Ray player) as they will only be one one at a time. If I had done things differently, I would have at least put another receptacle on its own circuit. I'll suffer with the 6BSST (used on the center and surrounds) and my 4 main system subs plugged into the wall. If I had things to do all over, I probably would only have a 2-channel main system and I would have done the basement in a different configuration.
In my old house, I had a duplex receptacle on its own circuit but it was much easier as the main system wall where the receptacle had the garage where the electrical box was located. Adding additional electrical stuff in that situation was much easier. Ripping up the unfinished sheetrock in the garage and repairing it would be really easy in that scenaio. Before I finished the basement I ran component and video cables from one side of the main room (now buried in the basement ceiling) to the other and chopped up a column behind to the listening chair to get the cabling up high for the projector. Took me a mild bit of creative thinking to hide the long HDMI cable I ran last summer for the new projector. While I don't plan to move again, if I ever do, I'll try to do a better job of leaving more options open.
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Hello James
I was wandering if you can tell me what gauge (10 OR 14) power cord comes with the torus rm-20. Both in single and dual ..... thankyou
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Hello James
I was wandering if you can tell me what gauge (10 OR 14) power cord comes with the torus rm-20. Both in single and dual ..... thankyou
Hi,
The power cord for RM 20 is 12 gauge
james
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Hello James
I was wandering if you can tell me what gauge (10 OR 14) power cord comes with the torus rm-20. Both in single and dual ..... thankyou
Hi,
The power cord for RM 20 is 12 gauge
james
Thanx james.... sorry i just found that info on the website.
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Hello everybody
James what is the wait time right for a dual phase rm-20? Trying to coordinate my affairs here and knowing this would be helpful.
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Hello everybody
James what is the wait time right for a dual phase rm-20? Trying to coordinate my affairs here and knowing this would be helpful.
Hi Werd,
About 3-4 weeks from order.
james
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Werd,That's only 2 paydays,see very quick :lol:..
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Werd,That's only 2 paydays,see very quick :lol:..
yah my guy isnt there today, i have to wait till tomorrow to order it i guess. They want 2% now on these 3months no interest or payments deal.
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I'd do dual phase,because YOU WANT ONE,and there's not a big price difference.
I bet 300-400 dollars an electrician could fix you up with materials+labour,( batteries not inc :lol:)..
It probably depends on where the electrical box is in relation to the receptacle. When the house was going up (12 yrs. ago) I had them put a single receptacle on its own circuit in addition to what was on the wall where the system was going. They did use a 20 amp breaker but just 14 gauge wire (I didn't specify - obviously I would do it differently today). I finished the basement about 4 years back (have another system down there) and where the wall is to the main room upstairs it is now finished basement. It would probably cost me more than 300-400 dollars to have someone rip up and repair what is finished just to have the electrical work done.
I just ordered a 20 amp Torus last week (I'll use my other power conditioners in the bedroom and basement systems). It will be fine for my 14BSST, my SP 1.7, and source components (e.g. BCD-1, Blu-Ray player) as they will only be one one at a time. If I had done things differently, I would have at least put another receptacle on its own circuit. I'll suffer with the 6BSST (used on the center and surrounds) and my 4 main system subs plugged into the wall. If I had things to do all over, I probably would only have a 2-channel main system and I would have done the basement in a different configuration.
In my old house, I had a duplex receptacle on its own circuit but it was much easier as the main system wall where the receptacle had the garage where the electrical box was located. Adding additional electrical stuff in that situation was much easier. Ripping up the unfinished sheetrock in the garage and repairing it would be really easy in that scenaio. Before I finished the basement I ran component and video cables from one side of the main room (now buried in the basement ceiling) to the other and chopped up a column behind to the listening chair to get the cabling up high for the projector. Took me a mild bit of creative thinking to hide the long HDMI cable I ran last summer for the new projector. While I don't plan to move again, if I ever do, I'll try to do a better job of leaving more options open.
Hey PhilA
I just ordered a rm-20 bal. also. I am just wandering how long you have been waitin for yours now? I am making sure i am putting 10 gauge in, any other things you might do diff if you had the chance with the 240 volt install?
Thanx
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I've just ordered the RM20. Not the RM20 balanced. I have a receptacle on its own circuit I had put in when the house went up 12 years ago but I've since finished the basement and the main room is above it. I'm not about to start ripping up finished stuff to run additional wiring and have to deal with the mess. I think I have every circuit used on the 200 amp service already. I had to compromise on the electrical stuff I did in the basement. I didn't want to change the service for the secondary basement system that does not get used that often. I'd also have to change the service if I wanted an additional circuit in the main room and that's probably $2k (so it would be close to $2.5k for the service and repairs if I went with an RM20 bal) . It's probably over 2 weeks since I ordered the RM20. I'm hoping to see it in a week or so.
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Woot!! my rm-20 is in!!!! Now if i can figure out how to pick it up :scratch: :lol:
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Congratulations :beer:.what do you mean by pick it up(lift it or pick it up from the audio store.
If it's the first they are nasty for weight.
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Congratulations :beer:.what do you mean by pick it up(lift it or pick it up from the audio store.
If it's the first they are nasty for weight.
Both.... i hope the box will fit in the trunk of my 98 bonneville. :)
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Congratulations :beer:.what do you mean by pick it up(lift it or pick it up from the audio store.
If it's the first they are nasty for weight.
Both.... i hope the box will fit in the trunk of my 98 bonneville. :)
I got mine Monday. The box is about 21x23 inches and about 10 inches high.
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Congratulations :beer:.what do you mean by pick it up(lift it or pick it up from the audio store.
If it's the first they are nasty for weight.
Both.... i hope the box will fit in the trunk of my 98 bonneville. :)
I got mine Monday. The box is about 21x23 inches and about 10 inches high.
Hi PhilA
Oh nice.... you just got yours too. How's it sound, does it need breaking in?
Might plug a 1000watt heater into it just break it in. Dont know if that is a waste of money or not.....
Thanx for the dimensions. I guess that will fit into my trunk comfortably.
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I've only gotten a chance to hear a few songs. It sounded good. Definitely improved. Going to get an album in now. It took me forever to take out unnecessary stuff (it's a nest behind my rack with everything in the system. I still have my 2 Richard Gray units in the main system as I have so many things. The RM20 is for the important 2-channel stuff. I'm going to move my other conditioner (Vansevers reference) to the basement system. Hopefully I'll have my Oppo Blu-Ray player tomorrow or Friday.
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I've only gotten a chance to hear a few songs. It sounded good. Definitely improved. Going to get an album in now. It took me forever to take out unnecessary stuff (it's a nest behind my rack with everything in the system. I still have my 2 Richard Gray units in the main system as I have so many things. The RM20 is for the important 2-channel stuff. I'm going to move my other conditioner (Vansevers reference) to the basement system. Hopefully I'll have my Oppo Blu-Ray player tomorrow or Friday.
Does it sound like it needs to break in? Maybe a 1500 watt hairdryer on it for 20 or 30 minutes might speed the break in process up a bit. I dont know if thats goofy or not? But iwill do it if i can see noticeable differences in it in a day or two.
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I've only gotten a chance to hear a few songs. It sounded good. Definitely improved. Going to get an album in now. It took me forever to take out unnecessary stuff (it's a nest behind my rack with everything in the system. I still have my 2 Richard Gray units in the main system as I have so many things. The RM20 is for the important 2-channel stuff. I'm going to move my other conditioner (Vansevers reference) to the basement system. Hopefully I'll have my Oppo Blu-Ray player tomorrow or Friday.
Does it sound like it needs to break in? Maybe a 1500 watt hairdryer on it for 20 or 30 minutes might speed the break in process up a bit. I dont know if thats goofy or not? But iwill do it if i can see noticeable differences in it in a day or two.
Please do not report me to Torus but IMO break-in required.
james
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I've only gotten a chance to hear a few songs. It sounded good. Definitely improved. Going to get an album in now. It took me forever to take out unnecessary stuff (it's a nest behind my rack with everything in the system. I still have my 2 Richard Gray units in the main system as I have so many things. The RM20 is for the important 2-channel stuff. I'm going to move my other conditioner (Vansevers reference) to the basement system. Hopefully I'll have my Oppo Blu-Ray player tomorrow or Friday.
Does it sound like it needs to break in? Maybe a 1500 watt hairdryer on it for 20 or 30 minutes might speed the break in process up a bit. I dont know if thats goofy or not? But iwill do it if i can see noticeable differences in it in a day or two.
Please do not report me to Torus but IMO break-in required.
james
Thankyou sir
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Sweet Nothing........ I can think of no better way to start. Jerry Seinfeld was once asked what his show was about.... "its about nothing" his reply. The same can be said about how the RM-20 sounds. You get absolutely nothing.... in the arena of sound intrusion. But what you do get becomes so very apparent from the moment it turns on. Super charged pure AC, again to talk about the way it sounds is more like offering feedback on associated equipment than the Torus itselt.
The frequency reponse is very horizontal. Flat but also very dynamic and with a charged sense of ease. An unmistakeable feeling that something was seriousily wrong with the power from the wall. My BP-25 seems to have improved the most. I was always under the impression that the pre was my weak spot in my chain. I never much like the volume control on the BP-25, i found it to have dead spots. There were only about 3 positions on the dial that i found musical. Points where the music kinda bloomed better than compared to other positions on the dial. As it turns out the pre wasnt at fault at all. Infact i can start my volume from a near whisper and with every tiny movement up still have a soundstage that exibits a sense of headroom and ease that makes it easier to control what volume i listen to. (i am not sure if its the pre thats benefiting from this or another piece and its just showing up now in the volume control). The headroom is unrelenting. I never realised how loud my 4bsq was until now :lol:.
The Torus needs a bit of time to breakin. Obvious at first it sounds a little tied up and restrained. I went at it and spend the last 5 day using a 1500 watt hairdryer, 300 watt halogen light and a DLP tele (2amps) on it (10 min intervals). I can say that is sounds alot better now from the first time i turned it on. I had all 3 of those plugged in and running, comes in at around 18 amps in total. Incidently if the Torus was going to show its weakness it wouldve been on the halogen light. The light certainly wouldve dimmed if the Torus was not up for the job. The Light showed no fade and the tv showed no hint of strain on ac also. It gives out all power it claims ....in all its glory.
My only gripe is it's power cord. Harder to replace due to the 240 configuration. The power cord is generic and i know probably wont stand the test of time. Looks out of place along side a powerhouse such as the Torus RM-20.
This unit is unfortunately a must have(at 3k it makes it hard to obtain). It something that everyone should consider if the hobby is serious. I can pretty much guarantee that if you take one home its going to stay there..
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Great review Lorne :thumb:.And they are keepers for sure.
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Glad your enjoying the Torus Lorne! :thumb: I haven't seen any up for resale. (unlike the PSA PPP)
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Hi Folks
Thanx moondoggy and drummermitchell. I mightve been a little tough on the power cord. After some consideration it dawned on me that cord itself is balanced and probably quieter than most aftermarket. Also i noticed how well the cord sits in the Torus, nice and tight for a good connect. I would still like to see 20 amp wattgate iec on it.
I am finding best results from not plugging my source into it, instead i use my Blue circle plugged into my 15 amp circuit. The bda sounds great plugged into it but my the Torus doesnt seem to like my sony or my pioneer for some reason.
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I have a general question about the Torus.
The Torus site states that the RM20A balanced draws 10A on each of the balanced 120V circuits.
Does this imply that existing 14 AWG wire for 15A service is reusable when converting to balanced mode?
Thanks
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I have a general question about the Torus.
The Torus site states that the RM20A balanced draws 10A on each of the balanced 120V circuits.
Does this imply that existing 14 AWG wire for 15A service is reusable when converting to balanced mode?
Thanks
Yes - 14 Awg wire can be used for the RM 20 BAL
james
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Thank you James
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T
Hi Folks
Thanx moondoggy and drummermitchell. I mightve been a little tough on the power cord. After some consideration it dawned on me that cord itself is balanced and probably quieter than most aftermarket. Also i noticed how well the cord sits in the Torus, nice and tight for a good connect. I would still like to see 20 amp wattgate iec on it.
I am finding best results from not plugging my source into it, instead i use my Blue circle plugged into my 15 amp circuit. The bda sounds great plugged into it but my the Torus doesnt seem to like my sony or my pioneer for some reason.
Hi folks
Just an update... after some evaluation, trial and error testing, its becoming clear that its not really a component issue here. What isnt jiving with my Torus are my Shunyata mains cables. They are stellar out of my blue circle, however the Torus has so much power response and these cables are little to responsive and they overdrive my highfreq. The good news i can free up some cash as these cables have excellent resale market. I was able to swap out my Shunyata with Blue circle cables on my BDA1 and 4B with success(for the time being). Its obvious that the Torus requires some attention to mains cables vs gear. Alot of expensive cabling are designed to be more responsive out of the wall (which is good) but the Torus provides that in spades and is the proper way to go in achieving good mains power imo.
So now i am off looking for new mains to accompany my Torus/Bryston setup. Any recommendations would be appreciated
thanx in advance
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Hey Werd,
If Mr. T uses the Bryston own (Van Damme) cables for the big demos, don't see why we shouldn't !
Just my $0.02 "Canadian" cents :lol:
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Hey Werd,
If Mr. T uses the Bryston own (Van Damme) cables for the big demos, don't see why we shouldn't !
Just my $0.02 "Canadian" cents :lol:
Thanx Brystonfan, I am considering those. Noticed Ultralink has stepped up their performance. They offer cryogenically treated conductors and their patented twisted design for around a $150.00. got one on order. They call them selves Ultralink/XLO... did they merge with XLO?
http://www.ultralinkcables.com/#/products/compare/AC%20POWER%20CORDS/
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Yes, Ultralink acquired XLO about 6-7 years ago. Please let me know how you like their cryo-treated cable!
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Yes, Ultralink acquired XLO about 6-7 years ago. Please let me know how you like their cryo-treated cable!
Thanx for that info Brystonfan. I will let you know how that fans out with the Ultralink. I also have a gutwire Power clef(sq) on loan too.
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Hello Folks
With the 4B i had trained myself to keep it on the 1v (louder) setting. With the power from the wall i found the 1 volt to be more responsive and musical imho. With the torus in play the 2volt in my setup seems to be way to go now. It has all the responsiveness as 1volt and yet seems to have better control of the soundstage in terms of placement and decay for some reason. It isnt as loud, but my AZ's are meant to be played very loud so its no biggie. Anyone who has a 4b shouldnt forget about the gain switches (two different soundstages somewhat) in the back as its a whole new ball game with the Torus. Just something i thought i would pass on.
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Wilson Sten [stenrw@mac.com]
Sat 6/6/2009 10:32 AM
Hello James,
Where do I start? I am simply overwhelmed with the amazing value the RM15 has added to my system.
At first the purchase was purely power isolation based to solve problems with varying voltage conditions resulting from my local grid. However, after removing two simple power conditioners and integrating the Torus RM15 into my system, I now realize the money spent went further than ever imagined.
The staging, sonically, everything has come together providing the ultimate experience. After being exposed and playing with various DBX products and sound processors the RM15 has confirmed without doubt that the basics are truly essential. Excellent clean isolated power is the essential starting point for any audio system.
If anyone should ever doubt the cost of the Torus Power units just refer them to me. In my opinion the Torus RM15 is the best money spent in my audio rack.
Thank you,
Sten R. Wilson
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From: Andrew Sent: October 2, 2009 12:52 PM
To: jamestanner@bryston.ca
Subject: To AVR or not?
Mr. Tanner
I've been a Bryston customer for years; I currently own:
14b sst, 6b sst, SP1.7. I also have some pieces from BAT (51se pre-amp & VK-P10se phono stage)
I've been evaluating the RM20 in my system for a few weeks and have noticed a dramatic improvement over my previous power conditioner (Richard Grey Power Company). I'm considering getting the AVR version of the RM20 ? but would do so for only audible improvements (as opposed to interface enhancements)
Can you provide any details regarding the 'audible' differences between the RM20 and the AVR RM20?
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
From: James Tanner
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 9:58 AM
To: Andrew.Netschay@confront.com
Subject: RE: To AVR or not?
Hi Andrew,
There is no sonic advantage with the AVR and that is why we offer it as an option. Unless you have serious fluctuating voltages I do not feel it is needed.
James
Hi James
First off, thanks for the extremely quick response
I?ve sent you emails over the past 6 years (since I bought my first Bryston gear SP1.7 and 9b sst) and your turnaround time is truly unique in this industry and others - greatly appreciated.
Secondly, thanks for your honest response as I could have been easily upsold.
My RGPC enhanced the sound of my system significantly; my system sounded very good with it installed. But replacing it with the TORUS took the sound to another level, my system now sounds great:
1. Wider dynamic range
2. Much greater detail in the mid-range frequence
3. Extended, detailed bass
4. More defined soundstage
Best regards
Andrew
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I am interested in adding a RM15 to a system with a 4BSST, BP25, BDA1 and am unclear if the RM15 is a good match to a 4B.
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I am interested in adding a RM15 to a system with a 4BSST, BP25, BDA1 and am unclear if the RM15 is a good match to a 4B.
Hi Gordon,
I have been using the RM15 with a 4B SST2 on my Quad 2905 system for about 3 weeks now and it sounds superb.
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That's the answer I was hoping for - was concerned there would be some current limiting issues - glad to hear that's not the case.
Now I will need to get in the queue!
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James,
Would you recommend the RM15 or RM20 for the following equipment?
Krell 200 wpc X2
Bryston 5ST 120 wpc X3
Plasma TV
Several Source components
Thanks, John Bruns
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James,
Would you recommend the RM15 or RM20 for the following equipment?
Krell 200 wpc X2
Bryston 5ST 120 wpc X3
Plasma TV
Several Source components
Thanks, John Bruns
Hi John,
Do you have a 20 amp service?
james
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James,
Not currently.
But I am having the electricians out next week for an estimate to install two 20A outlets (or one 20A and one 15A?) behind my home theater system. Any ideas on what I should tell them for wiring, outlets, etc?
Thanks, JohnnyB
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James,
Not currently.
But I am having the electricians out next week for an estimate to install two 20A outlets (or one 20A and one 15A?) behind my home theater system. Any ideas on what I should tell them for wiring, outlets, etc?
Thanks, JohnnyB
OK great - if you in fact will have a 20 amp outlet and circuit then I would go for the 20 amp Torus.
james
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James,
Not currently.
But I am having the electricians out next week for an estimate to install two 20A outlets (or one 20A and one 15A?) behind my home theater system. Any ideas on what I should tell them for wiring, outlets, etc?
Thanks, JohnnyB
Hi
Go for the 240 volt 20 amp service like james said, but make sure they put 10/2 gauge in. You don't need a neutral installed (10/3) wire but installing the neutral isnt really a bad idea for any future changes. You wont use the neutral but it will be there. Make sure you get a quote on 10 gauge, they will want to put in 14 gauge by default. And make sure you find a 20 amp 240 volt outlet as instead of a 15 amp 240 outlet. The 20 amp outlets works on the 15 amp also if you change your mind on the Torus size. You can buy the outlet at any electrical supplier and not bad idea to do and have it ready for him.
oh yah the 10 gauge is only about 25 bucks more or somehting like that. so its worth doing.
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Customer sent me this as he saw it on audiogon - thought it was a great endorsement for Torus:
Description (Torus (Bryston) RM 2.5)
This Torus power conditioner is a 2.5 amp, single rack mount unit featuring series mode surge suppression, and 4 outlets. The power supply in my town is pretty dirty and this unit has very noticeably improved the performance of my system. My only reason for selling is to upgrade to a larger Torus unit for an expanding system. In my opinion these Torus units may be the best kept secret in power conditioning. Others like Richard Gray, Furman, PS Audio et al. have been out longer and therefore have more press, but I suspect that will change over the next few years as Torus becomes better known. This little box (and I assume the other Torus monsters) are the real deal.
Functional condition: 100%, perfect with no problems whatsoever.
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That's what I tell the boys on Audiogon,the only reason you 'll see a Torus up for sale is that they want to upgrade to a bigger one.I've seen that quite a few times on that site.
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I can't wait to get this in my system to actually hear what my components should sound like....
Wig :drool:
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Curious if someone could explain the 1000 dollar difference in the two units?
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Curious if someone could explain the 1000 dollar difference in the two units?
When i bought mine it was only a 200 dollar diff between the rm15 and rm20. I think the rm15 at the time was only a slightly scaled back version of the 20. I would say they found a way to deliver the rm15 with a more efficient build in 120v version. Thus the reduced price. I dont know accurate that is but it seems to make sense for an explanation.
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Curious if someone could explain the 1000 dollar difference in the two units?
Hi,
Torus found a core material and winding technique that performed a little better and were able to develop a new product capable of 15 amps. The down side is the new 15 amp unit will run a little hotter than the older 15 amp unit under the same current draw.
The plus is of course it is less expensive to manufacture.
james
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I have to say I am more than a little interested in the Torus units.It will be close to the end of this year before I can afford one but I know I want/need one.There are lots of them on the market but it will be a Torus for this oldguy.
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I have never been into the power conditioner,cable ,tweak scene and all that but I must admit this Torus does have me intrigued as well.I think I will just bite the bullet and give one a try.
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Well, I did indeed bite the bullet and ordered one today( RM15).
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will be looking for forward to a review perhaps?
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Well, as I mentioned earlier;I tend to be very spetical of cables,tweaks ,conditioners etc. In the past if there were indeed audible differences maybe my hearing just wasn't good enough to detect them. There were times I thought I could hear differences but they were so small to me that there is no way I would have detected them with any success in a DBT.However with the torus almost everyone is claiming "HUGE" differences , perhaps differences that even I can reliably detect.
Anyways I will be inserting it into a system as follows.
B&W 802D
Bryston BP26 pre
Byrston 4b sst amp
Sony XA5400SE cd/sacd player
Cables are generic Bluejean and bryston speaker cables.
As you can see I don't have any esoteric cables cause I just really couldn't hear any difference( maybe tin ears). I must confess I really didn't try much in the way of esoteric cables though. Perhaps there are cables which even I could hear a difference.
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Its because of your views on such matters I;m really looking forward to your findings most of all.
Also we have the same speakers,use Bryston Amps,and both used a Bryston preamp.
Curious,what gauge is the Bryston Speaker wire?
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Well, I did indeed bite the bullet and ordered one today( RM15).
Way to go congratz...... I guarantee it, you will love it.
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Guys,
I have ordered the Torus CS15 and have one more question. I have the ground lifted on my BDA-1 with a cheater plug, will I need a cheater when I install the Torus?
Thanks,
Wig :)
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Its because of your views on such matters I;m really looking forward to your findings most of all.
Also we have the same speakers,use Bryston Amps,and both used a Bryston preamp.
Curious,what gauge is the Bryston Speaker wire?
I believe it is 9 guage
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Guys,
I have ordered the Torus CS15 and have one more question. I have the ground lifted on my BDA-1 with a cheater plug, will I need a cheater when I install the Torus?
Thanks,
Wig :)
I'd be a careful about defeating any grounds. They are there for safety reasons. Why was the ground lifted on the BDA-1?
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Phil A,
Lifting the ground with a cheater plug provided the best overall sound quality. Highs were extended and detail but the difference was in the soundstage depth and width. I have always lifted the ground on at least one component for 15 years, it make big difference.
Wig
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Had my BC 122 up and running for the last month while i contemplated selling my 4Bsq. the BC122 is a nice little amp but doesnt have the grunt i am looking for. Got the 4B in the path once again and letting it warm up. Have it plugged into the wall atm and will leave it there for a couple weeks just to reintroduce the benefits of the Torus at a later date.
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Just received my Torus RM15. To my surprise it was the much heavier 76 lb version which I was hoping for. So I plugged it in and will try it out tomorrow.
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Just received my Torus RM15. To my surprise it was the much heavier 76 lb version which I was hoping for. So I plugged it in and will try it out tomorrow.
Hi budt,
If you have a 76 lb Torus RM 15 it is the custom install 240V (2 x 120v) balanced version and can't be plugged into a standard 15 amp 120V outlet. You will need a dedicated circuit installed by an electrician. Your being surprised leads me to believe you didn't intend to buy this version. The standard rack mount and consumer 120V versions of the 15 weigh 42 lbs (44 if you have the AVR version).
I wouldn't plug it in unless you have the dedicated 240V balanced circuit. You can check this out on the website to confirm.
http://www.toruspower.com/rm_15_bal.htm
Bill
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Let's see where to start. I have been an audiophile for years now.I tried a few highend wires( even ones in the 4-5 grand range) and cords and even a few conditioners but always had to strain my ears and brain to hear a difference.In the end I didn't bother with any of it cause I thought it could very well be my imagination or perhaps my hearing simply wasn't good enough to detect any change.So I figured my money was better spent elsewhere( atleast for me). I have heard drastic changes when changing loudspeakers or rooms,significant changes when changing from a cheap preamp to a bryston and also some digital sources. I have heard very small to moderate changes between amps( usually small). I read so many glowing comments on the Torus power conditioner that I decided to revisit this area in my system and so ordered a Torus RM15 which arrived yesterday.My 2 channel system consists of B&W 802D speakers,Bryston bp26 preamp,Sony newest 5400 sacd player and Bryston 4b sst amp. All wires are bryston and bluejean.
I plugged the Torus RM15 in and decided to let things settle for about 10 hours( as it was cold from transit).After this initial period I threw in the first cd and was astonished at the change as I really wasn't expecting much if anything. The soundstage is simply incredible with more definition,more balance,silky smooth highs seem to extend into nothingness,voice is more pinpoint and incredibly natural without any edge, bass is more taught etc. I could go on and on but frankly I want to get back to my system. I will say this.It is very very seldom that a change in my system makes me want to revisit all my cd collection but the Torus has done just that.At the price it is an absolute steal.Those of you who have one already know this but for those who don't I would highly recommend and audition.I would only offer one other piece of advice regarding the Torus, don't audition one until you can afford it cause you are not going to want to be without it.
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Let's see where to start. I have been an audiophile for years now.I tried a few highend wires( even ones in the 4-5 grand range) and cords and even a few conditioners but always had to strain my ears and brain to hear a difference.In the end I didn't bother with any of it cause I thought it could very well be my imagination or perhaps my hearing simply wasn't good enough to detect any change.So I figured my money was better spent elsewhere( atleast for me). I have heard drastic changes when changing loudspeakers or rooms,significant changes when changing from a cheap preamp to a bryston and also some digital sources. I have heard very small to moderate changes between amps( usually small). I read so many glowing comments on the Torus power conditioner that I decided to revisit this area in my system and so ordered a Torus RM15 which arrived yesterday.My 2 channel system consists of B&W 802D speakers,Bryston bp26 preamp,Sony newest 5400 sacd player and Bryston 4b sst amp. All wires are bryston and bluejean.
I plugged the Torus RM15 in and decided to let things settle for about 10 hours( as it was cold from transit).After this initial period I threw in the first cd and was astonished at the change as I really wasn't expecting much if anything. The soundstage is simply incredible with more definition,more balance,silky smooth highs seem to extend into nothingness,voice is more pinpoint and incredibly natural without any edge, bass is more taught etc. I could go on and on but frankly I want to get back to my system. I will say this.It is very very seldom that a change in my system makes me want to revisit all my cd collection but the Torus has done just that.At the price it is an absolute steal.Those of you who have one already know this but for those who don't I would highly recommend and audition.I would only offer one other piece of advice regarding the Torus, don't audition one until you can afford it cause you are not going to want to be without it.
Hi again budt,
My post above came in just before yours. Now I'm really confused about the 76 lb. RM 15. Is what you have the balanced version? My unbalanced CS 15 weight 42 lbs.
Bill
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Mine is the RM15 non balanced version. I looked on the back and it is 120V input.I guess I got the last or one of the last ones of the 76 lb version.
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My guess is budt got one of the older RM15's before the new transformer in the recently introduced CS and RM 15
james
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Mine is the RM15 non balanced version. I looked on the back and it is 120V input.I guess I got the last or one of the last ones of the 76 lb version.
Well, now that we have that cleared up, congratulations on your UNBALANCED RM15. You are discovering today what I discovered at 2 AM Christmas Eve causing me to lose a night's sleep. At age 59 the Torus is proving to be hazzardous to my health keeping me up nights and all. And I thought my hearing was going bad. I'm glad I sent my money to Torus instead of spending it prematurely on a hearing aid :icon_lol:.
Now back to the 2 ft. of snow that's on my driveway this morning :x.
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Now back to the 2 ft. of snow that's on my driveway this morning :x.
Hi Bill,
2 feet of snow in the driveway :o Remember, it could be much, much worse - as in 2 feet of snow in my driveway :wink:
I hope that you have a snow thrower - if not, drop over and borrow mine :lol:
Be well...
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Hi Bill,
2 feet of snow in the driveway :o Remember, it could be much, much worse - as in 2 feet of snow in my driveway :wink:
I hope that you have a snow thrower - if not, drop over and borrow mine :lol:
Be well...
Yes, we got clobbered overnight by the Noreaster that hit the Mid Atlantic states. I'm in PA, right in the thick of it all. I warned the smaller of my 2 Poodles last night that he should prepare to dip his little dingy in the snow in the morning :lol:. Not to worry, however. I have Snow King out in the garage (AKA the 7 HP Ariens).
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Let me first say that I am not an experienced audiophile and I am not technically inclined when it comes to electronics. I am a music lover who just enjoys good sonics.
I am always sceptical about claims that tweaks can significantly improve the sound of systems. Then I chanced upon discussions about Torus and other power conditioners/power regenerators and how they can improve and (some say) degrade sound. To all you experienced audiophiles out here: is Torus really going to have a clearly audible improvement to one's system?
Also, has anyone here done an A-B of Torus with the products of PurePower (www.purepoweraps.com) which have also received some good feedback? Finally, can someone explain to me in a simple and non-technical way the difference between what Torus does and what PurePower does.
Your response is much appreciated.
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Hmmmm....based on Purepower's Top 10 Power Gremlins that can affect a Audio System ....Does it offer more coverage/protection thena Torus?..........The Purepower Model 2000 sure looks decent.
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Hmmmm....based on Purepower's Top 10 Power Gremlins that can affect a Audio System ....Does it offer more coverage/protection thena Torus?..........The Purepower Model 2000 sure looks decent.
Looks decent I suppose. As long as it's not broken, in the shop etc.
Bryan
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^
Hi Myview,
No one else has piped in so I will offer some input. The Torus is an 'ISOLATION' transformer and the 'Purepower' as best I can tell, is a power regenerator. So we are coming at the typically poor power delivery problem from different directions but trying to accomplish the same end result.
Our research has shown that isolation is the best option given our particular goals. Most high quality 'linear' power supplies (as used in all Bryston products) can operate over a fairly significant range of voltages without issue (typically 95 volts to about 135V). 'Switching' power supplies could care less what voltage is coming in and can operate on 5 volts. The Torus offers an AVR (automatic voltage regulation) version if you are in fact experiencing large voltage swings and brownouts in your particular area. We offer it as an option though because in most cases the extra cost is not warranted. Also we do the voltage regulation using separate taps off the transformer. This is a 'passive' system so there are no moving parts to wear or disruptive noises when the Torus is adjusting to voltage drops or increases. I have to admit though I just got the new CS 15 AVR home and the blue lights on the black faceplate showing voltage in and out and current draw look really neat!
So given our goals of total isolation from the outside power grid, instantaneous current delivery, superb noise filtering, etc. we felt the isolation transformer was the correct option for us.
Hope this helps
james
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Thank you James for your reply.
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This review is in the amp upgrade post but thought it also belonged in this one...
(I just recently upgraded my pair of 7Bsst2 with new PS etc. and that experience is as per the quote at the bottom) I also had on order a CS-15...for those that are interested my first impresson of the CS-15 post amp upgrade.)
Just received my CS-15 and let it warm up for 20 hours connected to the amps only at very low levels.
Here is my experince thus far - listerned to Fly Away by Corrine May on JVC XRCD2 at low level (between 8 and 9 on the pre).
Regular set-up - Pre and CD plugged into Monster power conditioner, CD player has Audioquest NRG-2 power cord, amps plugged into 2 separate 15 amp cuircuits.
Plugged upgraded amps only into CS-15 - image moved back and slightly wider but voices and piano became more diffuse. Not my preference.
Plugged all 4 components into CS-15 - image stayed back and remained wider but voices and piano more in focus. Better to my ears.
Then left Pre and CD in CS-15 and moved amps back to wall - image stayed back and remained wider but voices and piano much more in focus and increased separation between voices and piano. This is closest to the sound pre CS-15 but with a better defined image present. Best to my ears.
I am not sure if 20 hours is enough for the Torus to fully settle in and will spend some time tomorrow listening to other music and chime back.
Quote from: gtaphile on 12 Feb 2010, 02:53 PM
After waiting about 24 hours for the system to warm up...
As expected for me the upgrade was in line with my other experiences with Bryston in my system. The music is simply that much closer to live in every respect....the background is much quieter. My listening these days is mostly vocals and I can tell you Alison Krauss never sounded so good on this system, not even close.
Will chime back in when the Torus arrives.
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Hello Gtaphile
I have my 14B plugged into the wall atm and i think its better. Use a 1500 watt hairdryer on that cs15. It will burn in the outlet fast. run the hairdryer for about 10 min at a time. It will excite the outlet. It works
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Right after I wash the dog - thanks.
Hello Gtaphile
I have my 14B plugged into the wall atm and i think its better. Use a 1500 watt hairdryer on that cs15. It will burn in the outlet fast. run the hairdryer for about 10 min at a time. It will excite the outlet. It works
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This review is in the amp upgrade post but thought it also belonged in this one...
(I just recently upgraded my pair of 7Bsst2 with new PS etc. and that experience is as per the quote at the bottom) I also had on order a CS-15...for those that are interested my first impresson of the CS-15 post amp upgrade.)
Just received my CS-15 and let it warm up for 20 hours connected to the amps only at very low levels.
Here is my experince thus far - listerned to Fly Away by Corrine May on JVC XRCD2 at low level (between 8 and 9 on the pre).
Regular set-up - Pre and CD plugged into Monster power conditioner, CD player has Audioquest NRG-2 power cord, amps plugged into 2 separate 15 amp cuircuits.
Plugged upgraded amps only into CS-15 - image moved back and slightly wider but voices and piano became more diffuse. Not my preference.
Plugged all 4 components into CS-15 - image stayed back and remained wider but voices and piano more in focus. Better to my ears.
Then left Pre and CD in CS-15 and moved amps back to wall - image stayed back and remained wider but voices and piano much more in focus and increased separation between voices and piano. This is closest to the sound pre CS-15 but with a better defined image present. Best to my ears.
I am not sure if 20 hours is enough for the Torus to fully settle in and will spend some time tomorrow listening to other music and chime back.
Quote from: gtaphile on 12 Feb 2010, 02:53 PM
After waiting about 24 hours for the system to warm up...
As expected for me the upgrade was in line with my other experiences with Bryston in my system. The music is simply that much closer to live in every respect....the background is much quieter. My listening these days is mostly vocals and I can tell you Alison Krauss never sounded so good on this system, not even close.
Will chime back in when the Torus arrives.
Hi gtaphile,
I've posted a couple observations on the "upgrades" thread while conducting the same evaluation you are doing. My CS 15 is 2 months old now and well broken in. I also was drawn to a piano/voice observation and found the piano well placed between the center and stage right speaker a little behind the female vocal which was dead center in the stage. This was with the X-05 and BP26 connected to the Torus and the 7's in the wall. When I returned the 7b's to the Torus the female vocal came out into the room further and the piano stayed put as did the bass and quiet brushing of the snare drum at stage left and left of center back respectively. I had the sense she was hanging in mid air singing down upon me but not in an unrealistic way. The piano sounded a bit more full and tonally correct. It all sounded very balanced. The recording was a single mic Chesky Records SACD of Valery Joyce in an arrangement of Jimi Hendrix' "Little Wing". Overall the differences with the amps in and out of the Torus is more subtle than with the SACD player and to a lesser extent the BP26. I think the whole is greater than the sum of the parts when all 4 are plugged into the Torus. I like it better and it has the added benefit of the surge protection for the amps.
Bill
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Thanks Bill,
I still have much work to do on my room treatments to provide the facility to hear the cues that you point out.
Hi gtaphile,
I've posted a couple observations on the "upgrades" thread while conducting the same evaluation you are doing. My CS 15 is 2 months old now and well broken in. I also was drawn to a piano/voice observation and found the piano well placed between the center and stage right speaker a little behind the female vocal which was dead center in the stage. This was with the X-05 and BP26 connected to the Torus and the 7's in the wall. When I returned the 7b's to the Torus the female vocal came out into the room further and the piano stayed put as did the bass and quiet brushing of the snare drum at stage left and left of center back respectively. I had the sense she was hanging in mid air singing down upon me but not in an unrealistic way. The piano sounded a bit more full and tonally correct. It all sounded very balanced. The recording was a single mic Chesky Records SACD of Valery Joyce in an arrangement of Jimi Hendrix' "Little Wing". Overall the differences with the amps in and out of the Torus is more subtle than with the SACD player and to a lesser extent the BP26. I think the whole is greater than the sum of the parts when all 4 are plugged into the Torus. I like it better and it has the added benefit of the surge protection for the amps.
Bill
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Hey James,
Just a quick note to say WOW! I was not prepared for the difference the Torus RM-10 has made in my system! I had only a short audition yesterday afternoon and evening, but I am very impressed. I looked for a reason to stay out of work today just to have some private time with my new system, but could find no reason to skip work. Sheer guilt forced me in today.
I am already using a PS Audio Quintessence but I knew this was not the ultimate as I did not have any regeneration. Now, my system has taken on a completely new character. There is a new aura about it. The entire audio spectrum is improved and my 60” Pioneer Elite Kuro has never looked better.
Feel free to use any of the above in your testimonials section; you deserve all the praise.
Lloyd…
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MEMO: To all Bryston/Torus Customers
SUBJECT: Customer Feedback
May 4, 2010
Dear James,
My new Torus RM-15 2U arrived recently. Finally got it hooked up late last week. I will spare you the rhapsodic prose as to how it improved things (or maybe save it for a later day...Bob T's of a few months ago is what took me over the Torus edge).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=29946)
www.TorusPower.com
The unit that Torus builds is magic. That it could so enhance the already astonishing performance of my new Bryston gear leaves me somewhat amazed.
And should anyone ask me, I would tell them: Before you drop a small fortune on new speakers (those room dependent "boxes or panels" at the end of the sound chain), see what happens to your system when you get it right at the beginning. You may find that you do not need new speakers at all!
Sincerely,
Peter Huson
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MEMO: To all Bryston/Torus Customers
SUBJECT: Customer Feedback
May 4, 2010
Dear James,
My new Torus RM-15 2U arrived recently. Finally got it hooked up late last week. I will spare you the rhapsodic prose as to how it improved things (or maybe save it for a later day...Bob T's of a few months ago is what took me over the Torus edge).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=29946)
www.TorusPower.com
The unit that Torus builds is magic. That it could so enhance the already astonishing performance of my new Bryston gear leaves me somewhat amazed.
And should anyone ask me, I would tell them: Before you drop a small fortune on new speakers (those room dependent "boxes or panels" at the end of the sound chain), see what happens to your system when you get it right at the beginning. You may find that you do not need new speakers at all!
Sincerely,
Peter Huson
Peter is right on the money here, James. I thought for sure I would be replacing my Infinity 9 Kappas eventually after installing all my new Bryston gear and the Torus CS 15. Now I absolutely would not without being able to bring the new speakers home to sit them side by side the Infinitys.
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Guys,
every time I turn off/on my ceiling fan I get a pop, I thought the CS-15 was designed to isolate extraneous noises?
Thanks,
Wig
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Wig,I'd try another outlet where the fan isn't on the same line and see what happens when you turn the fan off+on.
I had a light switch that effected one of my outlets(had a sub in there)and I'd get a thump.
I didn't have the Torus plugged into that.My subs are plugged into the Torus(S) in front and no problems(Dedicated lines).
When I get this other sub,I'm going to put the BX-10 on that outlet with the sub and see what happens.
You wouldn't think the Torus would let that through,of course I'm no techy,I'm into the final creation
The MUSIC :thumb:.
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Sure, I only have one more socket to choose from and it's directly above the one I'm using.
Thanks,
Wig :D
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Guys,
every time I turn off/on my ceiling fan I get a pop, I thought the CS-15 was designed to isolate extraneous noises?
Thanks,
Wig
I thought that the Torus would of prevented transients such as these from reaching your audio equipment. I am curious if it is an “RF” pop and not being transmitted via the house wiring.
:scratch:
Be well...
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Hi,
I spoke with the main guy at Torus and his input is that the house ground 'must' be maintained for safety reasons and that is the way the Torus is wired. If your getting a pop at turn on and 'especially' at "turn off" it could be an RF issue and it would indicate there is a problem with the way the fan is wired.
james
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Thanks for the follow up, I guess I'll have to live with it for now...
:D
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I need help sizing a Torus power conditioner. I have purchased a Nad M-25 power amp. It is rated at 160 wpc x 7 channels. From what I have heard Nad is conservative in their power ratings. I have included the URL to the M-25 manual. What size Torus will I need?
Thanks
http://nadelectronics.com/content/100218133056-NAD-M25_OMENG.pdf
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I need help sizing a Torus power conditioner. I have purchased a Nad M-25 power amp. It is rated at 160 wpc x 7 channels. From what I have heard Nad is conservative in their power ratings. I have included the URL to the M-25 manual. What size Torus will I need?
Thanks
http://nadelectronics.com/content/100218133056-NAD-M25_OMENG.pdf
Hello
An rm10 will work but get into a rm15 for super jam.
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An rm10 will work but get into a rm15 for super jam.
Thanks Werd. The way I had it figured, the RM15 would be minimal, but then I thought about dynamic power needs and wasn't sure even the RM20 would be enough.
I forgot to mention my speakers are 4 ohm nominal.
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doesn't hurt to have more than enough,especially if you figure the 15a is minimul,then you end upupgrading your Torus later.of course you could use the 15 for components and sub.
A few extra dinaro,you could have the 20a.
I found with my amps(5)the 15a didn't seem to like all those amps on it's back,as soon as I installed a20a,the skies opened up,I couldn't believe it.
As James would say:having gobs of reserve power makes a HUGE difference,
I can testify to that,if you can afford a bit more(especially if you plan on upgrading),
do yourself and the music a favour,you'll be happy you did.
I have seen people on Audiogon sell their Torus(S) to buy a BIGGER Torus,as they realized that with
their power requirements that they needed a bigger one.I'm one of them.
And it makes a BIG difference :thumb:.
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Is one unbalanced RM20 on 20A dedicated line good enough for 3 McIntosh MC501's + 1 Bryston 4B-ST? Or should I get the balanced one instead?
Thanks,
Hugh
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Is one unbalanced RM20 on 20A dedicated line good enough for 3 McIntosh MC501's + 1 Bryston 4B-ST? Or should I get the balanced one instead?
Thanks,
Hugh
Hello
Go 240v and get the rm30 (if it still exists)
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I believe to make sure you are getting the amperage your amps would like is,
you add up what all the amps would want at full power and divide by 2/3.
This is for 8ohm speakers I believe,James can correct me if I'm wrong.
I went everything at full power just in case,I don't want my amps wanting even a smidge more of
power as it has an effect on me and the music :green:..
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I picked up a CS15 AVR yesterday [having ordered it at the beginning of June]. I needed the AVR capability as my local power grid is a little on the "vintage" side and during the summer the voltage supply can fluctuate between 95V-115V. The fluctuation caused my B100 to shut itself down continually and I didn't feel like packing it up for the summer. I left the Torus on yesterday, logged the in/out supply on a five minute basis and noticed that the input ranged from 102V to 115V with output ranging from 117V to 123V. The B100 didn't shutdown nor did the 4BSST2 and the sound was excellent. A great purchase, exactly what was promised.
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Congrats,Their definately one of my favorite components.If I had to downsize(NOT),the Torus(s)would stay.
They are just too good or should I say dramatic.
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In 2008 I bought a Pioneer 50'' plasma TV. It performed well for the 1st year and then off and on would display a 1/2'' distortion on the left side of the screen. It was not too bothersome but you could see it, especially if a football game was on. The horizontal lines would bend at this 1/2'' distortion point. In late 2009 I purchased a Torus RM 20. I plugged everything Bryston into it, as well as the TV. The distortion line went away and has never come back. For me this was visual ''proof'' that the Torus really does something. The Bryston stuff is on 24/7 as I feel anything plugged into the Torus is well protected. A great investment!