[tdjrichmond]

I have a $100 hockey puck WiiM for my high end system.  Bought it to experiment with streaming.  I do not use the internal DAC but use optical out (TOSLINK) to run to my Bel Canto DAC/preamp 3.5.  Since all the streaming puck does is receive and send the signal to the DAC, could I expect better performance from a high end streamer if I continued to use my Bel Canto DAC instead of the streamers internal DAC?  If so, please explain?

[FullRangeMan]

Hi, I cant response your question but will move this topic to the The Discles Circle for your conveniênce.

[Mag]

I have a $100 hockey puck WiiM for my high end system.  Bought it to experiment with streaming.  I do not use the internal DAC but use optical out (TOSLINK) to run to my Bel Canto DAC/preamp 3.5.  Since all the streaming puck does is receive and send the signal to the DAC, could I expect better performance from a high end streamer if I continued to use my Bel Canto DAC instead of the streamers internal DAC?  If so, please explain?

I'm using Bluetooth to a cheap Headphone pre-amp $35 Cdn, connection to Home computer is Fiber Optics. The Headphone pre-amp is then connected to my Yamaha Receiver using Pure-Direct. I'm not noticing any lack of detail, so I don't know how a more expensive unit would improve on this.

With my smart phone using Amazon HD I have it set to Best Signal available. Again no lack of detail as I'm hearing stuff in familiar music that I never noticed before. I do have my JBL Ear Buds equalized to my preference, which would IMO make the biggest noticeable difference to my liking.

So IMO a good connection speed is the biggest factor. Not the price you pay for Streamer or dac.

Maybe others have had a different results.

[newzooreview]

In brief, yes, a better source to the DAC will make a difference, and it will be audible to an experienced listener in a well-configured system. If small box speakers are set against the wall and the listener hasn't heard many high-end systems, then the difference may not be perceived. Cabling, AC power conditioning, and the amp and preamp will also make a difference.

GoldenSound on Youtube provides hands-on measurements and discussion of several streamers (or digital to digital transports).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvu_doQfAI0

It may very well be that the WiiM meets your needs, and it may not be the first choice for upgrading your system, but I have tried a fair number of streamers, and they do make a difference.

Toslink has inherently high jitter: timing errors in the signal. Toslink converts the digital signal to light pulses on the transmitting end and then converts the light pulses back to digital on the receiving end in the DAC. The quality of the digital signal being converted going into the Toslink cable, the physical integrity of the Toslink cable, and the optical converter in the DAC will all affect the signal. The sum total of these issues and the ability to minimize their effects tend to make jitter worse in Toslink connections than in coax, I2S, or USB. This is why Toslink is typically limited to 96/24 sampling rate: the jitter is too high to transmit higher sampling rates like 192/24 reliably.

The technical differences between the various digital formats are well described here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZw-hZaKIlQ

I hope that helps.

[jpm]

The short answer is yes, with your Bel Canto DAC you'll notice improvements brought by better streamers. Which streamers and how much you want to spend is up to you though. The WIIM should be enough for you to get a sense of whether streaming is your thing or not and if it is then enjoy the upgrade process 

[newzooreview]

The other consideration is what you are streaming. Is it your uncompressed files stored on a NAS, compressed music from Spotify, or uncompressed and possibly high-resolution files from Qobuz?

In my system, my locally stored files sound better than Qobuz. On many occasions, I have purchased the tracks from Qobuz and played them from my NAS, and they always sound better played locally from my NAS. Other people do not hear a difference in music streamed off the internet or playing back from a locally stored file.

The difference I hear is in the spatial cues that create an open soundstage and in the degree to which I can hear subtle details deep in the mix. For background listening, they are comparable. I don't think one would notice a difference when doing something else and listening casually.

[WGH]

I have a $100 hockey puck WiiM for my high end system.
.... could I expect better performance from a high end streamer if I continued to use my Bel Canto DAC instead of the streamers internal DAC?  If so, please explain?

There are a lot of unknowns in your question. Speakers and amps are two questions that must be asked. As newzooreview says - source matters. I had Tidal HiFi Plus for a year, the sound was meh, only later it was discovered Tidal re-coded everything into MQA. Now they say they have evolved to streaming untouched FLAC, yea and I have a bridge in San Francisco I'll sell you, cheap.

Standard 16 bit/44.1 kHz and 24 bit/96 kHz will sound basically the same over optical (also meh) so if you are only streaming compressed low-res audio through TOSLINK then a higher priced streamer will result in a more expensive meh without sounding much better. 16 bit/44.1 kHz and 24 bit/96 kHz FLAC files into a non-oversampling DAC like the ANK 5.1 Signature DAC using USB can sound amazing and flawless, I was impressed.

Getting rid of jitter will make everything sound better. A different streamer will probably have a USB output but then you will need a USB/SPDIF converter or the one of the Bel Canto Link Converters that take the USB output from your music server and deliver ultra-low jitter S/PDIF. All three USB Link Converters feature native MAC USB 2.0 compatibility, a custom Windows USB 2.0 driver, and operate at 16- or 24-bits at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192kHz. One advantage of the converter is you will be able to listen to true hi-res music for the first time, which will be a revelation (depending on the source of course). True hi-res, not upsampled, will open your ears to state-of-the-art sound.

David Cheskey's The Audiophile Society 2023 Music Sampler is a free 12 track hi-res download. The 12 WAV tracks are 24bit/192kHz.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-message-from-david-chesky-welcome-the-absolute-sound-listeners-and-hifi-subscribers/

And now we have traveled to the land of music servers, which can stream too.

And to get the best sound from your new music server a proper USB cable is required. Everyone has their favorite, they are kinda system dependent but everyone who has listened to Hapa USB cables agree they are among the handful of best sounding available. That's what I use. Read about the tours and the unbiased reviews:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=45
 

[GeorgeAb]

Yes, but......  In my opinion and experience three areas to improve a streamer is the clocking, digital signal processing, and user interface. Using a quality digital converter between streamer and DAC can help clean things up. I use Singxer DC between both my 2 channel and headphone setups. First used in 2 channel setup and liked it enough to buy a second for my headphone setup which uses a different streamer and DAC. If you have a powerful streamer (computer) you can use digital signal processing to assist in room acoustics; powerful DSP comes with software like Roon. That also requires a modest investment in a calibrated microphone and Room EQ Wizard is free software so you can measure what you are hearing at your listening position and then correct/adjust. Lastly, not all user interfaces are created equal from a usability standpoint and some streamers do not support a quality software interface like Roon. 

[richidoo]

All of the mass market streamers have relatively high jitter.

I used iFi iPurifier (spdif version, ~$100) to dramatically improve the jitter from my Sonos ZP-80 which is notoriously high jitter. iPurifier reduces jitter down to about 20pS which is audiophile quality. It is also able to do this to a multichannel digital connection like HT receiver.

While an audiophile-quality streamer will output a lower jitter stream, it still pales compared to upsamping the signal to the DACs maximum input sample rate with a PC. I just started using HQPlayer to upsample to 1.5MHz PCM. Big improvement over my previous streaming components like RPi3, SotM SMS-200 and Aurender. If you have a decent PC already it may be worth a try before you buy a better streamer, but streamer appliances are much easier.

[Mike-48]

You'll never know if the differences are significant enough to YOU for the price unless you buy or borrow a dedicated streamer and see what you think. In that regard, Crutchfield sells quite a few different models and has a 45-day return policy. They are not the only dealer who will let you try before you buy.

[Nick B]

As has been stated, it depends on your current system and what would be an appropriate amount to spend. I have limited experience with streamers, but......

Auralic Mini streamer + external lps = good
iFi Zen streamer        + external lps = better
Holo Audio Red streamer with internal ps = best (to date)

The Red has extremely low jitter and that translates to significantly improved SQ

[rollo]

I have a $100 hockey puck WiiM for my high end system.  Bought it to experiment with streaming.  I do not use the internal DAC but use optical out (TOSLINK) to run to my Bel Canto DAC/preamp 3.5.  Since all the streaming puck does is receive and send the signal to the DAC, could I expect better performance from a high end streamer if I continued to use my Bel Canto DAC instead of the streamers internal DAC?  If so, please explain?

 Absolutely yes is the answer. A dedicated streamer with the Bel Canto would be better.  Now budget matters here. I can try to explain however a moot point. You need to try and listen in your system.

charles

[whell]

I have a $100 hockey puck WiiM for my high end system.  Bought it to experiment with streaming.  I do not use the internal DAC but use optical out (TOSLINK) to run to my Bel Canto DAC/preamp 3.5.  Since all the streaming puck does is receive and send the signal to the DAC, could I expect better performance from a high end streamer if I continued to use my Bel Canto DAC instead of the streamers internal DAC?  If so, please explain?

I'll be the voice in the wilderness and say no, I hear no difference.  I'm able to synch the output of my music server so that it sends the same output to my Benchmark 2 DAC (via USB) and the Wiim Mini.  In this setup, the Wiim serves as an endpoint: it receives the stream from the server and sends the signal optically to the Benchmark.

Your milage may vary, but I think the concerns about jitter from the optical output are probably yesterday's news.  Most modern DAC's are very good at correcting jitter.