What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?

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WGH

Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #20 on: 21 May 2022, 03:56 pm »
I really need to get a decent SPL meter...

Radio Shack 33-2050
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=radio+shack+33-2050&_sacat=0

Use with the correction table for fine tuning but for general loudness the meter readout is perfect.
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Testeq/RadioShack_33-2050/33-2050.htm

I haven't heard the latest Spacial speakers. A friend had the earliest version in a large room with a lot of space behind them, maybe 8'. Your room may be too small for these speakers, I know mine is.

I just got a new DAC and was wondering if I have been playing music louder because the DACs the sound is unbelievable clear and the distortion numbers are so low, -120 dB below the music:
"In almost every way, the HoloAudio May KTE (Level 3) is the best-measuring D/A processor I have encountered, rivaled only by the Weiss DAC502 and MBL N31.—John Atkinson"
https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-may-level-3-da-processor

Transparent Water - Omar Sosa & Seckou Keita sounds good at 70 dB with peaks to 75 dB


Sara Bareilles - Brave Enough, Live at the Variety Playhouse is very dynamic and plays well at 75 dB with peaks to 85 dB


Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon (remastered 24 bit/96 kHz) hits 92 dB peaks


Carmen Gomes - Ray! (768 kHz) is amazing with an almost 15 dB dynamic range and very clean with peaks to 85 dB at comfortable listening levels



I agree with everything JML says about subs but adding more speakers in an already too small room will not solve your problem. Floyd Tooles's writings are a "must read" for all audiophiles in order to get the best sound they can, that is why I posted all the articles I could find in 2008:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.0

But you could read until you are 100 years old and never find a solution to the problem of the right speakers in the wrong room.

I thought of an experiment that many here will find blasphemous. Take a couple of thin blankets and cover the rear of the Spacial speakers. The back wave will be attenuated depending on blanket thickness. Does the room sound clean up? Do the amps sound different now? If there is an improvement then you have to decide on experimenting with room treatments which will make your room look like a recording studio or different, more directional speakers.



AllanS

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Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #21 on: 22 May 2022, 04:29 am »
I suppose the next step is to decide if this is merry go round I can afford to ride or am I willing to live with mediocrity.

AllanS

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Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #22 on: 22 May 2022, 04:42 am »

I haven't heard the latest Spacial speakers. A friend had the earliest version in a large room with a lot of space behind them, maybe 8'. Your room may be too small for these speakers, I know mine is.

I thought of an experiment that many here will find blasphemous. Take a couple of thin blankets and cover the rear of the Spacial speakers. The back wave will be attenuated depending on blanket thickness. Does the room sound clean up? Do the amps sound different now? If there is an improvement then you have to decide on experimenting with room treatments which will make your room look like a recording studio or different, more directional speakers.

Thank you for the SPL meter and listening recommendations.  The speaker decision was made before rotating the setup for reasons of marital harmony.  They may be a bit much for space but aren’t overwhelming.

Tyson

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Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #23 on: 22 May 2022, 04:29 pm »
I've had rooms like yours before.  Believe me, nothing will make much of a difference till you treat the room.  The glass in particular needs to be covered with something like heavy curtains or thick cloth roman shades.  What I did with my space was wooden slats plus roman shades.  But all the hard/bare walls with flat lines leading to 90 degree corners is just awful for good sound. 

I'd start with a lot of absorbing on that front wall behind the speakers.  Put a lot.  Don't worry about having 'too much' absorption.   IME it's better to start with too many and then remove some vs. starting with too few and not getting the room optimally dialed in. 

Also, change out your equipment rack, it's too tall.  A low and wide rack is what you want.  A tall rack will get out of the way of your speakers imaging and soundstage.  Tall and narrow and right between/behind the speakers is the worst possible configuration.

WGH

Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #24 on: 22 May 2022, 06:26 pm »
This is the perfect opportunity to rack up marital harmony points to use for future purchases. The electronics can go on the seat instead of pillows.
GIK acoustic panels can be fit behind the books for even more absorbing power.

Built in Bookshelves with Window-seat for under $350
https://ikeahackers.net/2013/02/built-in-bookshelves-with-window-seat-for-under-350.html






AllanS

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Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #25 on: 23 May 2022, 06:36 am »
I've had rooms like yours before.  Believe me, nothing will make much of a difference till you treat the room.  The glass in particular needs to be covered with something like heavy curtains or thick cloth roman shades.  What I did with my space was wooden slats plus roman shades.  But all the hard/bare walls with flat lines leading to 90 degree corners is just awful for good sound. 

I'd start with a lot of absorbing on that front wall behind the speakers.  Put a lot.  Don't worry about having 'too much' absorption.   IME it's better to start with too many and then remove some vs. starting with too few and not getting the room optimally dialed in. 

Also, change out your equipment rack, it's too tall.  A low and wide rack is what you want.  A tall rack will get out of the way of your speakers imaging and soundstage.  Tall and narrow and right between/behind the speakers is the worst possible configuration.
The current set up followed step one - remove the queen bed to make some space.  I’m pretty well convinced of treatments and have in mind most if not all what you’re recommending.  I’ve already primed the wife that treatments are coming and she gets to choose the curtains.  I didn’t realize the rack is bad.  Eventually it, or something similar may move to the wall to the left speaker where there is currently a filing cabinet.  If it stays where it is it will be replaced with low and wide.
I am curious about the Breaking Good OP set up.  Not to suggest my space doesn’t need help, I know it does, but the OP describes his space as untreated.

This is the perfect opportunity to rack up marital harmony points to use for future purchases. The electronics can go on the seat instead of pillows.
GIK acoustic panels can be fit behind the books for even more absorbing power.

Built in Bookshelves with Window-seat for under $350
https://ikeahackers.net/2013/02/built-in-bookshelves-with-window-seat-for-under-350.html



Interesting idea though I’m not sure I’d trust all those books to a $350 wall unit.
 

JLM

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Re: What am I Not Hearing? - Acoustic Related?
« Reply #26 on: 23 May 2022, 12:26 pm »
I have 3 tall $79 bookcases on side walls to act as "casual diffusors" that can be adjusted.  The books will cost more than the bookcases unless you go to a thrift store to buy random books.

Also highly recommend dumping any tall equipment racks.  Anything between the loudspeakers block the soundstage.  Best I ever had was a single piece of shelving on spikes (like an amp stand), but I have had minimalistic systems for years (current system consist of a streamer/DAC with very small mono-blocks).