AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => All Solid State => Topic started by: Yomaha on 14 Nov 2018, 03:41 pm
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Seeking recs for a SS power amp under $4k. I currently have a Modwright 9.0 SWL Anniversary Edition with tube rectification, a PS Audio DSD DAC, and Salk Songtower with Ribbon tweeters. I have a large listening room now so I've been thinking I need more power than my current 10w tube power amp.
I top contenders so far are PS Audio M700 monos, Van Alstine, and used Pass Labs or First Watt. I am open to all suggestions.
Please help me spend my money! :)
It's snowing in North Louisiana today - wow!
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Why not a more powerful tubed amp ? What is the sensitivity of the Salk speaker ?
charles
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Checked speakers are 88db. 50W of class "A" or 100W push pull tubed amp would be a wonderful match. For SS Belles, Parasound or preowned Levenson.
charles
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The new AVA amp has been getting raves:
http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2018/9/13/the-van-alstine-vision-set-400-stereo-amplifier
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Odyssey extremes.
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I had the M700s and they rocked. my speakers are 4ohm at 87 Db down to 2.53 ohm and no issues. best value for power and musicality I have seen. I have since gone to a valve amp but it would be over your budget limits. I even upgraded to the PSA BHK 250 and missed the 700s immediately. Good luck, lots of great stuff new and used in that price range....
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Why not a more powerful tubed amp ? What is the sensitivity of the Salk speaker ?
charles
+1. Ran the standard Songtowers for years with a 40 watt Latino ST70. ( supplimented with an ACI sub) Fantastic synergy, but with that said, not sure the OP's version of the ST presents an equally tube friendly load. I also remember Steve Stone reviewing the ST/AVA Ultravalve combo at one of the audio shows a few years back. Basically said it was possibly the best sound for the money at that show.
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Salk + AVA amps are a very synergistic pairing. I'm running that combo right now and whenever I switch out amps the magic is gone.
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I had the M700s and they rocked. my speakers are 4ohm at 87 Db down to 2.53 ohm and no issues. best value for power and musicality I have seen. I have since gone to a valve amp but it would be over your budget limits. I even upgraded to the PSA BHK 250 and missed the 700s immediately. Good luck, lots of great stuff new and used in that price range....
kind of weird to say you had the m700's - its not going to help the poster - to make a decision - its only going to confuse him or her - why wax on about the m700s when you have moved on
my immediate thought is - "if they were so good" why move on
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I had the M700s and they rocked. my speakers are 4ohm at 87 Db down to 2.53 ohm and no issues. best value for power and musicality I have seen. I have since gone to a valve amp but it would be over your budget limits. I even upgraded to the PSA BHK 250 and missed the 700s immediately. Good luck, lots of great stuff new and used in that price range....
kind of weird to say you had the m700's - its not going to help the poster - to make a decision - its only going to confuse him or her - why wax on about the m700s when you have moved on
my immediate thought is - "if they were so good" why move on
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Kinda obvious isn't it? His comment is- "top contenders so far are PS Audio M700 monos"
I had them and enjoyed them. I "moved on" to an amp that was 2X the price. It happens in this hobby. Is that such a mystery? I'll leave it to the OP to determine if it helped or not.
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You might consider the Schiit Vidar (http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar ) 100 W @8 Ohms doubles at 4 Ohms. Class AB. I have one and think its great. I have Joseph Pulsar speakers. Quite a bargain at $700. 5 yr warranty. Made in US in California.
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One of the reasons I'm looking at SS instead of a more powerful tube amp is because of tubes. What do I mean by that? I've had an awesome experience rolling tubes with my Dennis Had amp. I love researching for different tubes, makes, models and sonics. I've paid up for some tubes, and really not regretted it at all.
What I've noticed is that I can "feel" my tubes getting a little bit weaker...slightly diminished sound stage...I have to turn up preamp a little more these days, etc. So I'm thinking that some of my tubes are fading. Problem is, is it the ECC88s, is it the KT150's or is it the WE 422? I'm not sure where the weak link is, and I don't really feel like investing in a tester.
Because of that, I have become extremely diligent about turning off my system when I'm not listening in the same room, due to the finite life and cost of the tubes. I'd like to hear what the Salks could do with a lot of power behind them. I think the Modwright tube front end gives me some decent warmth and bass, so a faster SS amp seems like it may compliment that. Just my theory...
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You might consider the Schiit Vidar (http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar ) 100 W @8 Ohms doubles at 4 Ohms. Class AB. I have one and think its great. I have Joseph Pulsar speakers. Quite a bargain at $700. 5 yr warranty. Made in US in California.
IIRC Jim Salk has run Schiit more than a few times at Audio Shows.
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Digital Amplifier Company the forum is right here on AC. I have had a number of SS and Tube amps over time and the DAC amps are impressive on many levels. Contact Tommy O he offers a 30 day no hassle return policy.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=174
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Don’t laugh. Kinki Studio ex M1 or the monos. Lovely sound.
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I can also recommend Pass Labs used if you can find a good deal on an X250.5 or .8. Frankly (pun intended), I'd be looking hard at the Van Alstine SET series of amplifiers. A Vision SET 400 is well within your budget and if you can swing the dough the DVA SET 600 monoblocks would be my "hard target". Only another $1000.
Hey, it's easy to spend someone else's money, LOL!
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I too would be looking for a used Kismet or Frank's new SET 400 and have money in the bank for other things.
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A used Pass X250.5 would be my number one recommendation but they are going for around $4500 but I have seen 1 or 2 around $4K. I would also look at used BAT's. The AVA SET amps are a great buy as well if wanting new.
You can also find used Pass X250 amps for about $2600-$3200. I run an X250. Awesome amp. Makes my Parasound A21 sound midfi.
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just want to say thanks for the rec's...loving this. seeing some love for AVA and Pass, plus some new names to check out. Thank You.
Do most of these companies have in-home trials? If so, has anyone had experience with that...like say you do an in-home trial, and after proper burn-in, you still aren't feeling it? Do you send it back, or do you catch flak for wanting to return it? Or do you feel general commitment bias and keep something you spend thousands of $$$'s on but don't LOVE?
So much goes into it, room dimensions, treatment, system synergies, source material etc...
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In my experience (Insight, Insight+ double die, Synergy) AVA amps do not need burn-in, the solid state amps like the 400 don't even need to warm up to sound their best, they always sound excellent from the start.
"We have complete confidence in the design, workmanship, and musical quality of our audio components. Thus, on new AVA-built electronics, we offer you a 30-day satisfaction guarantee"
https://avahifi.com/pages/satisfaction-guarantee (https://avahifi.com/pages/satisfaction-guarantee)
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A used Pass Labs amp is my recommendation. Don't know enough about your system to be be more specific, but a call to Mark at Reno Hi-Fi would get you some good advice. They have a great audition/return policy.
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I'm not sure where the weak link is, ...
Yes. Agree. I just rotated in and out of the exact same situation and what appears to be the exact same 10w amplifier as you. While it was fun for a while, I struggled with the cool little 10w amp wanting it to produce the control and dynamics of my former 200wpc solid state amp or my other 50/100 wpc triode/ultralinear amp and my speakers were not 88db sens, they were 92db. I must have flipped back and forth 20 times at least to then [finally, reluctantly] making the decision to part with what I just had acquired in the cool little amp. Simply needed more power and control.
Formerly I had come from various 200-300wpc mosfet based amps with the nice cool lush sound from SS amps. Like you, after making the decision the little 10w amp was not going to cut it, I started looking at PSA BHK 250, AVA, Belles, and a few others noted here already. I'm still running my larger 50/100w tube preamp and amp now, and while I may never go back to SS amps, always keeping an eye out for one. Hopefully you can demo one that is broken in a bit, it seems my last SS amp started sounding good after 200hrs and it was hard to sell it but knew it was just not quite there yet, back to tube I sit for now. Still have a hankering to try that AVA or BHK 250, maybe next year.
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Decooney - curious what tube power amp are you running?
Part of my "issue" with another tube amp is just keeping the thing freshly tubed. I have a penchant for tube rolling (my own worst enemy) and that gets expensive when you have matched quads to roll thru on some of the larger tube amps. I've been eyeing some of the used BAT tube amps, but just wanted a break from wondering about how much juice is left on my tubes...or should I just buy a tube tester :)
I do have access to an older AVA Synergy 240. I'm going to put it in the signal chain now that I have the Modwright tube pre and DSD Sr just to get a feel of SS...
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Do most of these companies have in-home trials? If so, has anyone had experience with that...like say you do an in-home trial, and after proper burn-in, you still aren't feeling it? Do you send it back, or do you catch flak for wanting to return it? Or do you feel general commitment bias and keep something you spend thousands of $$$'s on but don't LOVE?
The first Digital Amplifier Company amp I tried, I sent back with no hassle from Tommy. I liked the amp but during the 30 day trial period I came across my dream amps and bought them. So back went the DAC amp.
DAC is very good about their return policy as long as you stay within the agreement. 30 days and returned without damage or blemish.
Contact Tommy about his offerings you will be satisfied.
Chris
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Chris - good to know that folks keep their word on something like that and its not just lip service!
btw - what were the dream amps you ran across?
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Chris - good to know that folks keep their word on something like that and its not just lip service!
btw - what were the dream amps you ran across?
A pair of Audio Note Kits 300b SET 8w Interstage Mono's to pair with my Charney Audio horns.
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PS Audio has excellent customer service and trade in policy.
If you're looking for 100 wpc why not look at the PS Audio S300 (140 wpc) for $1500?
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The first Digital Amplifier Company amp I tried, I sent back with no hassle from Tommy. I liked the amp but during the 30 day trial period I came across my dream amps and bought them. So back went the DAC amp.
DAC is very good about their return policy as long as you stay within the agreement. 30 days and returned without damage or blemish.
Contact Tommy about his offerings you will be satisfied.
Chris
+1
Get the lower powered PSU if you get these. I found it quite a bit better SQ than the 48 PSU.
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A used Pass X250.5 would be my number one recommendation but they are going for around $4500 but I have seen 1 or 2 around $4K. I would also look at used BAT's. The AVA SET amps are a great buy as well if wanting new.
You can also find used Pass X250 amps for about $2600-$3200. I run an X250. Awesome amp. Makes my Parasound A21 sound midfi.
X2 ...........
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I hope I'm not stating the obvious (and I haven't heard your current amps to compare whether this would be a step up, down, or sideways), but considering you're running a Modwright preamp, have you auditioned a Modwright KWA150SE? The KWA150SE is still the biggest solid state (class AB) amp Dan builds, stereo, just about right in the middle of your price range if used is an option, and can be bridged to mono down the road if you like the sound and want to pick up a second one to end up with monoblocks.
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Never mind!
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Sorry, it just registered that you want a SS amp.
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Decooney - curious what tube power amp are you running?
Part of my "issue" with another tube amp is just keeping the thing freshly tubed. I have a penchant for tube rolling (my own worst enemy) and that gets expensive when you have matched quads to roll thru on some of the larger tube amps. I've been eyeing some of the used BAT tube amps, but just wanted a break from wondering about how much juice is left on my tubes...or should I just buy a tube tester :)
I do have access to an older AVA Synergy 240. I'm going to put it in the signal chain now that I have the Modwright tube pre and DSD Sr just to get a feel of SS...
Back to running my upgraded Cary V12R amp. Yes, tubes, 50 watt triode or 100 watt ultralinear. Plenty of grunt, beautiful sound after upgrades. I can run NOS or modern tubes and it sounds nice and engaging either way. Formerly I had been running my Cary SLP98 tube preamp and a new Cary SA-200.2 solid state amp. That tube pre and SS amp combo worked well. As a backup amp, I tried the DH Inspire for a while but realized I preferred more power, control, dynamics over euphoric low-power 10w triode sound. Right now i'm talking with a friend on some 50-60w Triode Monoblock ideas. If I don't go that route, maybe I'll demo a PS Audio BHK 250, or an upgraded Pass Labs, or maybe an older Belles, but I'll always run an NOS tubed preamp without a doubt whether or not I run tube or solid state amplification. Its not so easy to go back to solid state after experiencing some nice tube amps, but I'm still on the path to retry some tube/SS hybrid amps too. My custom build speakers are revealing so I tend to prefer tube amps over most SS amps.
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If you do some research on the audiogon.com forum you will see that Tube Research Labs is at the top of the food chain. Paul Weitzel died and so did the company recently. You don't see any of his products for sale as people are hanging onto them.
While he made tube amps and preamps, he did make some solid state amps that he told me sound almost identical to the tube amps. He made the Samson mono block amps that sold for 5 grand as well as the 225 which is basically the Samsons in one convenient package. He stated the 225 is essentially the sonic equal to the Samsons. His cheapest tube amp was 10 k and went up to 25 k, 50 k, and over 100k for the the 800 watt monos. All had the basic same sound, music.
I have a TRL 225 and TRL Dude preamp I may be listing in the future, gulp, for a non related audio purchase. It is with much hand ringing and consternation that I have even thought of this. That would be a serious move back for me at this time. Ah, life.
Rocket Ronny
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It doesn't get much better than this for a SS amp. And you save some money.
https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-two-ice-power-1200as2-power-am
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Seeking recs for a SS power amp under $4k. I currently have a Modwright 9.0 SWL Anniversary Edition with tube rectification, a PS Audio DSD DAC, and Salk Songtower with Ribbon tweeters. I have a large listening room now so I've been thinking I need more power than my current 10w tube power amp.
I top contenders so far are PS Audio M700 monos, Van Alstine, and used Pass Labs or First Watt. I am open to all suggestions.
Please help me spend my money! :)
It's snowing in North Louisiana today - wow!
Ask Jim Salk
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Call Klaus at Odyssey Audio. Odyssey has a circle here on the board, but to talk specifics call Klaus, tell him your other equipment, sound you’re after/music tastes, and your budget, and he’ll build you a amp packed to the gills with every penny’s worth of upgrades your budget can handle. Unbelievable sound and value custom built for you. Check it out!
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Call Klaus at Odyssey Audio. Odyssey has a circle here on the board, but to talk specifics call Klaus, tell him your other equipment, sound you’re after/music tastes, and your budget, and he’ll build you a amp packed to the gills with every penny’s worth of upgrades your budget can handle. Unbelievable sound and value custom built for you. Check it out!
Plus 1
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So far there have been a lot of great suggestions, but also you have to go look at a company I have just run across that you might not have heard much about before- Kinki Studio! (lol - thier out of Singapore - I guess names don't translate well sometimes) - They just won 6moons.com 2018 Bluemoon Award for thier EX-M1 Integrated Amplifier, I don't know if your familiar with the online review audio review magazine 6moons. They give thorough audio equipment reviews and I don't take them as gospel but they review a lot of equipment in a year and I have found them to be pretty reliable so to choose this company unknown to them for thier bluemoon award they would have to be very impressed - they said that the EX in the name stands for Extreme and it's not just a title or " puffery ". Please go look at the Review at -
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/kinki/1.html
-- then see the specs / discription at -- https://www.kinki-studio.com/ex-m1
Check out the the photos in the review, the inside of this amplifier is almost a work of art , this company is relatively unknown in the forums and online review magazines I search, but it probably wont be that way for long, and thier amplifiers could easily be priced for thousands more than they are right now. This Integrated Amplifier is 215 watts into 8 0hms and although i don't see a published figure into 4 or 2 ohms .... at 200 plus watts with 26 db gain in the line stage followed by another x 20 amplification factor in the power stage -- it is very strong and the company says it will drive any speaker. 6moons goes on to say that "it's not often they chance across a discovery this undeniably brilliant" and "if enough people catch on this amp will become a Classic" - if you aren't looking for an integrated amp , but just looking for an amplifier alone - they also make an amazing pair of monoblocks as well!
Best Regards, Dean Halleck
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marvda1 here on AC bought a Kinki a month or two ago. Maybe he will chime in. I an curious also.
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The Kinki is a first rate integrated and a bargain at it's price. According to the designer it doubles down into 4 ohms. There are at least four AC members including myself that own one that I know of.
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There are some great buys on audiogon for Bryston, Plinius, BAT, PSA BHK and a few others.
You may want to consider some digital amps like the PSA M700 monos or something from the Digital Amplifier Company who is running a sale on their amps. Their cherry amps are oh so smooth and powerful. There is a guy on the Audioshark forum that raves about his PSA M700's. He had the 300's and say these are a huge step up.
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maybe the question to ask is - what kind of amplifier are you looking for - ... most things being equal - do you do you lean toward a more tonally richer sound - more or denser harmonics - more towards a tube sound - or very crisp clean leaner sound?
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Hi JackD and any other owners of Kinki Studio I was wondering how much time did you get to spend listening to your Kinki before you made up your mind? And how does your Kinki amplifier stack up to amplifiers you have had in the past? I am also in the market for a new amp and have been searching a long time.