AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: simon wagstaff on 23 Jan 2024, 12:54 pm
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Klaus posted something a little while ago about the relatively large number of returning Odyssey customers. You can count me as one of them.
A few years ago I was looking for something to drive a pair of Radio C1.3 and settled on a Kismet in Khartago stereo amp. I used it to replace a Van Austin U70 Dynaco 70 rework. Drove the Radhos just fine, but I really didn't care for the sound of the speakers so sold them. Ultimately wound up with a pair of VMPS RM2s and in a sort of funky set-up used the Odyssey from 250 hz on up. Clearly didn't need all that power and traded the U70 for an AVA SET120, which at the time I thought sounded "as good" as the Odyssey which I thought was quite the complement. Sold the Odyssey.
Fast forward to today. I came into a little bit of cash and wanted to replace my 20 year old VMPS RM2s, just because. I wanted something that was as new as possible. It came down to either the PS Audio FR10 or the new Magneplanar 2.7X. The PS Audio was just updated planar drivers, just better RM2s. I wanted something that would be different. I picked up a pair of Magneplaner 1.7i just to check them out. I liked the sound and the image they projected. Just lacking a bit of sparkle. The mono blocks I was using at the time though, 225 watts, just about melted. (I am not going to name these amps, just not fair). I knew I would need new amps, something with a lot of current.
Odyssey...
I called Klaus and of course, he had the answer. Updated Kismet mono-blocks. Did I want the bigger transformer?
Yes!
Did I want the upgraded capacitors?
Yes!
Meanwhile the Magneplanar 2.7Xs show up. they sound TERRIBLE. Lifeless. No detail, no sparkle. No image. No volume! The 2.7Xs are easier to drive than the 1.7i in my experience but I couldn't get 80 db peaks without the amps again just about melting.
I felt like I had made a horrible mistake. I waited a good long 2 months for my Odysseys to show up. Surely an amp won't make THAT much difference.
Snow delayed things. UPS truck pulled up outside my pace last night at 6:30 pm. Two big boxes. Unpacked them and let them sit in the warm room for an hour before turning them on.
Bliss
Relief
I know the amps need a long break in period. Right out of the box I am super happy. Sparkle, imaging, Maggie Magic, and more. Volume! First test is always King Crimson Larks' Tongues in Aspic.
Yikes!
Amps barely get warm to the touch, no problem.
It will only get better from here.
I see lots of people posting on other forums about how Maggies don't need THAT much power. In my experience they really need a lot of current no matter how many watts.
Odyssey really fits the bill. I like them because they are not too monstrous, a little under 50 pounds so I can still lift them. Maybe not the highest output in terms of watts, but more than enough in my small/medium room.
I think if you are considering Maggies you need to be looking at the whole package, amp AND speakers.
Clearly the Odyssey Kismets are more than up to the task.
Thanks Klaus!
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Were you able to compare the 1.7s with the 2.7x's using the new amps?
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I was not able to compare the two, I sold the 1.7i pretty quickly. I liked the Magnepan presentation, but the 1.7i were missing the sparkle that comes with the ribbon tweeter in the 2.7X. That may have also been related to the amp, which lasted about 10 minutes before getting too hot to even touch.
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Your findings are not surprising. Maggies will let you know when your electronics are not up to snuff. They need a quality amp, high capacitance, high current and high power to sound their best. The amp needs to be stable at 2 ohms.
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You often hear that Klaus's amps do a great job on hard to drive loudspeakers!
Is it a question of the bigger the Maggie the bigger the amp required? I ask this because I've had no problem driving my LRS+ with amps ranging from 50W, 200W and 500W into 4 ohms to 85 db peaks...and having them sound great...and the 200W amp doesn't double in output from 8 to 4 ohms?
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If the 225 watts per channel monoblock amps the OP was referring to are the AVA M225s, I have seen numerous posts here in AC and elsewhere stating that these amps had no problem with Magnepan speakers.
One that I came across: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=186077.0
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I would prefer to not name the amps, perhaps there was some other issue with the set-up, but in my hands it was a no go. Within just a few minutes the amps were too hot to even touch.
I found the 1.7i to be much harder to drive than the 2.7X.
In my hands and in my room the Odysseys are barely warm to the touch after an hour or more of playing, in the exact same setup as the other amps.
And sound fantastic.
Clearly YMMV.
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I use M225s with my 1.7s and the amps barely get lukewarm after hours of use. Maybe something was wrong with your amps?
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Possibly, though I have been using them for several years in a lower stress system and they sounded fantastic. Not a big deal to send them in to get checked, though I do have the odysseys in the house now. That's why I don't really want to name them.
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Simon....how were you able to get the 2.7x so quickly when the information about them started leaking out a few months ago and then they were just advertised as for sale a couple weeks ago?
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I got the first pair delivered in the US. The Music Room on the Eastern Shore oof Maryland and Michael Hoatson is the number one Magnepan dealer in the US and he hooked me up. 3.7i were too big, 1.7i doesn't have the ribbon tweeter and the new 2.7X seemed perfect.
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I used my recapped 40 year old Carver M400 (200 wpc/8 ohms) to drive my Maggie 1.7i s. Ran at high spl for lengthy amounts of time. That little 9lb cube barely got warm.
Now using a Kismet in Stratos. Its nice and does the job with a little better SQ, but I do think 2 monos would give that extra ump Maggies need.
Kick myself for not trying a 2nd M400 and run them as mono blocks. That was many $$ ago.
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How does the Magnepan 2.7x image compared to the 1.7s and other Maggies? I have always thought that although they often cast a very nice soundstage, the images within can sometimes appear nonspecific, larger than life and stretched in width as if one was listening in the land of the giants. The ones smaller in width such as the LRS+ seem closer to being able to present a more realist image. I can like most everything about the Maggies, but that imaging issue has kept me away.
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I have always thought that although they often cast a very nice soundstage, the images within can sometimes appear nonspecific, larger than life and stretched in width as if one was listening in the land of the giants.
That was with the Maggies of old. Once the *.7 and *.7i series came out, that has no longer been the case in their sound. Maybe even with the *.6 series Maggies that trait has been gone.
I remember the MMG's and my MGLR-1's had that larger than life sound to them. It was fun and different (cool) for a while, but left you eventually looking for a more "normal" sound.
In short, you no longer have to worry about that "land of giants" sound with any of the new Maggies.
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That was with the Maggies of old. Once the *.7 and *.7i series came out, that has no longer been the case in their sound. Maybe even with the *.6 series Maggies that trait has been gone.
I remember the MMG's and my MGLR-1's had that larger than life sound to them. It was fun and different (cool) for a while, but left you eventually looking for a more "normal" sound.
In short, you no longer have to worry about that "land of giants" sound with any of the new Maggies.
I have the 1.6's and they have that larger than life sound which you either like or do not like. I love it. It feels like your are in the middle of a symphony.
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I go to at least three audio shows a year and listen to the newer Maggies when available, still being optimistic that I will like them. However, I have yet to hear an installation that I could be happy with, for my above stated reasons. It is not that I am looking for anything new. I am more than happy and feeling very fortunate with what I do have, but I always like to have a plan B incase a future need would arise.
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I just watched a good YouTube review of the 2.7i. Maybe there will be a pair at the Florida show next week.
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I just watched a good YouTube review of the 2.7i. Maybe there will be a pair at the Florida show next week.
Likely this one from Audio Excellence?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_91dk5KHgw8
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Yes, that was it.
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I just watched a good YouTube review of the 2.7i. Maybe there will be a pair at the Florida show next week.
I didn't see one single Magnepan at the show when I was there yesterday. Not even a mention of them.
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I didn't see one single Magnepan at the show when I was there yesterday. Not even a mention of them.
One room had the LRS+. I think it was an Orchard Audio room. With a narrower panel I found that model to image more true to life and thought they sounded just fine. The new Diptyque DP140 MKII was also there. With the tweeters on the inside this one images correctly unlike the Clarisys and sounds great.
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One room had the LRS+. I think it was an Orchard Audio room. With a narrower panel I found that model to image more true to life and thought they sounded just fine. The new Diptyque DP140 MKII was also there. With the tweeters on the inside this one images correctly unlike the Clarisys and sounds great.
I never saw them, and I thought I had stuck my head into each and every room this year. I did see and hear the Diptyque and Clarisys rooms though. When I was in the Diptyque room, they had the tweeters on the outside and right next to the side walls.
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3677076097-5.jpg)
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How did the Diptyque speakers sound?
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I never saw them, and I thought I had stuck my head into each and every room this year. I did see and hear the Diptyque and Clarisys rooms though. When I was in the Diptyque room, they had the tweeters on the outside and right next to the side walls.
(https://charlest.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p3677076097-5.jpg)
They switched them around for me for Sunday. I had complained on Friday and Saturday that people were not able to hear them at their best. Their reasoning was to be able to present more of an equal soundfield to more seated space. But, unfortunately we all know how such compromises usually work out. More people got to hear a lesser speaker.
On Sunday they sounded up to their potential in all metrics, which was quite good.
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Follow up.
Things have settled down with the new Magnepan 2.7X. I have made a couple of changes that made a big difference.
I have read the posts regarding the DV225 and Magnepan speakers. All I can say is that in my experience the AVA DV225 was not a good match for the 1.7i nor the 2.7X. With the 1.7i they got super hot in just a few minutes. The 2.7X were a little better in that regard, but not much. One change that I made that made a big difference was larger gauge speaker wire. I was using some Audience SE speaker cables that were a little small in gauge, if you want high current to the speakers you need high current capacity wires to send that current to the speakers. I swapped out for some Straightwire speaker cables, 12 awg. That made a lot of difference in amp heat, especially with the Kismets.
The Kismets give me alll the power that I need for the 2.7Xs. Maggies absorb power and project it into the room differently than monopole cone speakers. I do find myself listening at subjectively louder levels, but it just fills the room more, than increasing apparent volume. I am running peaks of around 85 db and it is plenty loud. The Kismets give great dynamics and have excellent transparency, maybe slightly more transparent than the DV225, and equals them in terms of imaging. I don't have to titrate the volume to keep the amps cool.
Moved the ribbon tweeter to the outside and the stereo image widened, while maintaining the vocals firmly floating in the center. Kind of spooky. Image also very tall, a given with the tall Maggies.
With the 2.7X I wanted something that was current, new, and state of the art. I didn't expect to have to get new amps to drive them, but when the DV225 couldn't cut it I knew it was Odyssey that would do the job. I am not sure if the larger transformers and bigger caps are something newer that Klaus is offering? He added them in the middle of putting my amps together. Seems I have plenty of current now to drive my Maggies.
Very pleased with the Kismet monoblocks and with Klaus and his exceptional service.
Just going to mention as part of the upgrade process I picked up an Anthem STR pre-amp with ARC Genesis. I have a pair of subs crossed over at 90 hz and the Anthem provides great integration of the subs with the 2.7X. This is taking a little bit of the load off the power amps.
Kismets and Maggies are a good match in my system.