Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?

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jtwrace

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #20 on: 29 Jun 2011, 02:24 pm »
speakers of his own design.

Hmm.  Where can we read more about these?

Saturn94

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #21 on: 29 Jun 2011, 03:11 pm »
Hmm.  Where can we read more about these?

Contact Dennis. :)

Chinaski

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #22 on: 29 Jun 2011, 03:29 pm »
Is your budget the same as before?  Do you have additional money for sub(s).  I'd personally want subs if I had to trade my HT2-TLs for a pair of Songtowers.  Songtowers sound amazing, but they just don't have enough low frequency impact for me without subs. Not really an issue at low to medium listening levels or in smaller rooms though.

How many people will typically listen to your system when used for HT?  If you're normally the only person, Salk speakers produce a great center image, and I'd suggest spending more on 2 speakers and skipping the center.

Typically just 2 of us watch movies sometimes (and we share one huge comfy chair).  And I buy into the phantom center channel use, since I tested it out using just the L+R for several weeks (don't miss the center speaker at all really).

 I'm just getting back into the aural habit (you know the seemingly never-ending pursuit of audio nirvana).  I'm also buying either a new AVR and external amp, or a prepro with HT bypass and new amp -- and I think a new 2nd sub is a likely new addition in the coming year as well.  So much to buy, so little room, so tight the budget!  I've seen Nuance's use of two products I'm seriously considering:  Parasound A23 with 2100 pre.  That DAC also looks enticing also as I have a Squeezebox Duet here (well, no remote for I just bought and installed the streamer device solo). 

My "needs" have changed just slightly from my original post.  I've decided to more fully embrace 2-channel listening still, but a bit torn on the pairing of the new amp with a Parasound 2100 or a new AVR (which also gets me HDMI switching, OSD over HDMI, maybe Audyssey room correction).  Trying not to make too many compromises to detract from the ultimate 2-channel goal.  So many in the AVR as pre-pro camp, makes me wonder if I'm really interested in going for the stereo pre just for the sake of doing things differently than I have in the past?  My room had to be totally recombobulated to accommodate the MLs (which want a wall behind them), everything was previously in the only "free" corner (and one speaker backs to the open foyer).   I have a wonderful room here at the beach, but it sucks for equipment placement (too much glass, too many doors, too open, it's the hub of the home and only room I can use for AV), so lots of compromises which reduces taking full advantage of nicer gear, and few room treatment options exist really. 

But I know where a 2nd sub can go!

Chinaski

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #23 on: 29 Jun 2011, 04:05 pm »
You'll likely find that the Salk's provide a larger sweet spot when compared to the electrostats, not to mention far better off-axis frequency response.  The latter are very difficult to set up correctly IMO.  Oh, and don't buy into the 72-hour break-in nonsense.  It's more likely your ears will adjust to the sound of the speakers rather than the sound characteristics of them changing much.

To my ears the Salk SongTower's with ribbons are the best speaker under $4000, but YMMV.  I hope you can find an owner to allow an audition!

Indeed the MLs are notoriusly off-axis deficient (and they apparently expanded the sweet spot on this new model).  I hear you on the "ears adjusting thing."  Odd, still, that the manufacturer in the owner's manual says not to even listen to them or bother trying to optimally position them until the pair has done 72 hours at 90dB +.  My dog is unsure why we're having 16 hour daily marathon listening sessions.  But hey at least I'm playing that Pink Floyd tune, from Meddle, with the singing dog for him.

Not to digress, but I have Wisconsin ties, and am a huge Packer fan since Dad's from Tomah, and Lombardi was winning SBs when I was just knee-high to a grasshopper.  As many in my family did before me, I graduated from Carroll College (now University).  I return to Waukesha every Fall for homecoming.  And party like nobody's business at the old stomping grounds of Lester William Polsfuss (a good friend now owns the joint).

DMurphy

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #24 on: 29 Jun 2011, 04:44 pm »
Contact Dennis. :)

Or come to Capital Audio Fest. 

Nuance

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #25 on: 29 Jun 2011, 05:48 pm »
I'm just getting back into the aural habit (you know the seemingly never-ending pursuit of audio nirvana).  I'm also buying either a new AVR and external amp, or a prepro with HT bypass and new amp -- and I think a new 2nd sub is a likely new addition in the coming year as well.  So much to buy, so little room, so tight the budget!  I've seen Nuance's use of two products I'm seriously considering:  Parasound A23 with 2100 pre.  That DAC also looks enticing also as I have a Squeezebox Duet here (well, no remote for I just bought and installed the streamer device solo). 

My "needs" have changed just slightly from my original post.  I've decided to more fully embrace 2-channel listening still, but a bit torn on the pairing of the new amp with a Parasound 2100 or a new AVR (which also gets me HDMI switching, OSD over HDMI, maybe Audyssey room correction).  Trying not to make too many compromises to detract from the ultimate 2-channel goal.  So many in the AVR as pre-pro camp, makes me wonder if I'm really interested in going for the stereo pre just for the sake of doing things differently than I have in the past?  My room had to be totally recombobulated to accommodate the MLs (which want a wall behind them), everything was previously in the only "free" corner (and one speaker backs to the open foyer).   I have a wonderful room here at the beach, but it sucks for equipment placement (too much glass, too many doors, too open, it's the hub of the home and only room I can use for AV), so lots of compromises which reduces taking full advantage of nicer gear, and few room treatment options exist really. 

Can you accommodate both the AVR and 2-channel analog preamp?  The HT bypass feature on the Parasound preamp is really convenient, and it works even when the pre is powered off.  All you have to do is run three analog cables from the preouts (be sure the AVR has the preouts) on the receiver to the bypass inputs on the preamp.

Would you be willing to post pictures of your listening room?

Indeed the MLs are notoriusly off-axis deficient (and they apparently expanded the sweet spot on this new model).  I hear you on the "ears adjusting thing."  Odd, still, that the manufacturer in the owner's manual says not to even listen to them or bother trying to optimally position them until the pair has done 72 hours at 90dB +.  My dog is unsure why we're having 16 hour daily marathon listening sessions.  But hey at least I'm playing that Pink Floyd tune, from Meddle, with the singing dog for him.

Not to digress, but I have Wisconsin ties, and am a huge Packer fan since Dad's from Tomah, and Lombardi was winning SBs when I was just knee-high to a grasshopper.  As many in my family did before me, I graduated from Carroll College (now University).  I return to Waukesha every Fall for homecoming.  And party like nobody's business at the old stomping grounds of Lester William Polsfuss (a good friend now owns the joint).

That's pretty cool about your Wisconsin ties.  Tomah is a few hours from me, but I am very familiar with the area.  If you still haven't heard Salk's by the time the Fall rolls around, give me a shout and I'll have you over for a listen.

I like the new ML stuff, so it should make for a good comparison.  I do find it strange that they want 72 hours of breakin at 90dB+, though.  Wow - that's loud!  But if they recommend not evening listening, well, why not, right?  Most manufacturers say the same thing, but they encourage listening during that time.  I am not engineer, but as far as I know the drivers fully break-in within the first few hours, and I'd imagine the crossover components only take minutes.  But again, I have no clue. :)

A trip to Dennis', Saturn's place or Capitol Audio Fest would be most beneficial for you.  Definitely take them up on their offer!

Saturn94

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #26 on: 29 Jun 2011, 05:50 pm »
Or come to Capital Audio Fest.

I hoping I can make a day trip to attend.......probably on Sunday.

Chinaski

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #27 on: 29 Jun 2011, 07:44 pm »
Can you accommodate both the AVR and 2-channel analog preamp?  The HT bypass feature on the Parasound preamp is really convenient, and it works even when the pre is powered off.  All you have to do is run three analog cables from the preouts (be sure the AVR has the preouts) on the receiver to the bypass inputs on the preamp.

Would you be willing to post pictures of your listening room?

I can accommodate both.  My AVR has preouts and main-in/main-outs (used for the sub for better blending with the main speakers).  It was Yamaha's #2 model in 2002, a beefy 47 lbs.  But excepting the lack of HDMI and offering OSD only via S-video or composite (yikes! My new HDTV offers neither connection), the Yammie gives me all I need for HT really.

Can and will post pics.  Just picked up the MLs last Friday, and totally shifted the entire room around into a state of "am I keeping these speakers or not?"  So the room is going to appear as if I'm critically listening to new speakers (which I'm not, yet), damn the WAF.  By  the way, ML states no critical listening should be done until after the 72 hour break-in.  On well produced recordings, I can say the imaging and transparency is very nice.  Thanks for the offer to hear your speaks in the land of cheese.

A trip to Dennis', Saturn's place or Capitol Audio Fest would be most beneficial for you.  Definitely take them up on their offer!

Arranging a demo now!

Chinaski

Digression! Used Parasound A21 price
« Reply #28 on: 29 Jun 2011, 08:34 pm »
I know some of you own or have sought the Parasound A21 amp.  I have an opportunity to buy one from the original owner, local to me, for $1400 in 8-9 out of 10 condition.

OK deal?  Really good deal?  Great deal?

Nuance

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #29 on: 29 Jun 2011, 09:02 pm »
I know some of you own or have sought the Parasound A21 amp.  I have an opportunity to buy one from the original owner, local to me, for $1400 in 8-9 out of 10 condition.

OK deal?  Really good deal?  Great deal?

Good deal - great amp!

Chinaski

A21 vs XP-2?
« Reply #30 on: 29 Jun 2011, 09:26 pm »
Then I see the Emotiva XP-2 for almost half the price of the A21.
What gives?  Is the Emotiva a sheep in wolf's clothing?

Anyone here in the "all amps sound different" camp?  Actually I had to edit this, since I realize I've almost certainly posted this in the land of the "all amps certainly sound different" crowd.  So, is Emotiva a 4-letter word comparatively?

MichiganMike

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #31 on: 29 Jun 2011, 10:31 pm »
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mastering-forum/535054-just-bought-one-these-emotiva-amps.html

The above link is to another forum where a heated debate arose on the merits of the Emotiva amps compared to the Parasound A21.  You will find Emotiva supporters contending this is a great bargain that can compete with much more expensive Krell, Bryston and Parasound amps.  There are also those on the other side of the issue that question the reliability of the Emotiva amps, suggest Emotiva uses inferior parts and that the Emotiva is less musical because it does not operate in Class A mode for significant watts.   

I have no direct experience with the Emotiva amp.  I have a Parasound A21 amp and have been very pleased with it.  I purchased it used for less than $1400, which suggests to me the deal you mentioned is okay.  The opportunity to see and hear the amp and purchase it locally to avoid shipping adds to the value.

There is a consistent demand for used Parasound A21 amps, so resale opportunities may be better than for the Emotiva. 

I use a Parasound A23 to drive my SongTowers, which in my opinion is also a good combination. 
 

zybar

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #32 on: 29 Jun 2011, 10:41 pm »
FWIW, I recently (a few months ago) switched from an ATI 1506 to a Parasound A51 to drive my five Song Towers in a HT setup.  The Parasound/Salk combo produced more detail, less haze, and is less fatiguing and more enjoyable to listen to.  While the A51 cost a good deal more than the ATI amp, I felt the level of improvement was worth the extra cost.

I haven't heard the Emotiva amps, so I can't say anything based on personal experience.  As has already been pointed out, there are passionate opinions on both sides.  One thing to consider with the Emotiva amps is the higher than normal input sensitivity.  This could be an issue depending on the preamp or pre/pro used.

George

bigbwb

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Re: Digression! Used Parasound A21 price
« Reply #33 on: 30 Jun 2011, 03:05 am »
I know some of you own or have sought the Parasound A21 amp.  I have an opportunity to buy one from the original owner, local to me, for $1400 in 8-9 out of 10 condition.

OK deal?  Really good deal?  Great deal?

This amp is on my wish list as well, Nuance are you listening....hint hint:)  I also agree its a decent deal nothing to jump up and down about.
BTW, love your Avery's Avatar...Awesome Brewery out of CO.  I like the Maharaja and their ellie's brown Ale and just got the New world Porter, also very delish!

Big Red Machine

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #34 on: 30 Jun 2011, 01:09 pm »
FWIW, I recently (a few months ago) switched from an ATI 1506 to a Parasound A51 to drive my five Song Towers in a HT setup.  The Parasound/Salk combo produced more detail, less haze, and is less fatiguing and more enjoyable to listen to.  While the A51 cost a good deal more than the ATI amp, I felt the level of improvement was worth the extra cost.

I haven't heard the Emotiva amps, so I can't say anything based on personal experience.  As has already been pointed out, there are passionate opinions on both sides.  One thing to consider with the Emotiva amps is the higher than normal input sensitivity.  This could be an issue depending on the preamp or pre/pro used.

George

Sweet.  If I could afford a BAT 6200, I'd go with their sound, so for now I'll stick with the ATI's - will be using a 1506 bridged at 450 for the fronts and a 1505 for the rears.  Yowza!

I am on record as not a fan of Emo amps.  Like the company, like their friendliness, their look, but there are better amps for sure.

zybar

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #35 on: 30 Jun 2011, 01:36 pm »
Sweet.  If I could afford a BAT 6200, I'd go with their sound, so for now I'll stick with the ATI's - will be using a 1506 bridged at 450 for the fronts and a 1505 for the rears.  Yowza!

I am on record as not a fan of Emo amps.  Like the company, like their friendliness, their look, but there are better amps for sure.

I was using the 1506 bridged for the front three channels and letting the receiver handle the rear channels.  I thought this sounded better than using the 1506 to power all five channels.

The ATI is a great amp for the money and has been super reliable.

George

Big Red Machine

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #36 on: 30 Jun 2011, 02:12 pm »
I was using the 1506 bridged for the front three channels and letting the receiver handle the rear channels.  I thought this sounded better than using the 1506 to power all five channels.

The ATI is a great amp for the money and has been super reliable.

George

Agree.  There is just more snap and energy at 450 W.

rollo

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Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #37 on: 30 Jun 2011, 03:20 pm »
  The sonic character of the Song Towers requires an amp that will not emphasize the top end. As it is most revealing of what is in front of it. Plinius, CJ, Bryston and Parasound amps can do that. Plinius or Bryston SST2 would be my first choices, but thats me. It is also recommended to use a tubed preamp with a SS amp IMO.
  Songtowers are as neutral  as neutral can be. I would lean to components that warm it up a bit for a wonderfull balance. Synergy by another name.
  You just need to demo speakers and amps in your home. The only true way to decide , good luck.


charles
 

fsimms

Re: Compelled to go with Song Towers? Or?
« Reply #38 on: 30 Jun 2011, 03:36 pm »
Charles,

+1

Bob