[Texbychoice]

There was a question posted over on ASR on Sunday asking when the results of the second, more typical build XLS-Encore would be provided.  There has been no response to that question, not even the usual snark.

Amir's test of the first XLS-Encore appears to have been done in good faith.  However, reading through the thread about the build process there was criticism and slams at Danny before any testing was performed.  After the test results were posted the ensuing thread again took swipes at Danny having little to do with the test results.  Valid questions, critique, or opinion expressed in a respectful manner are fine.  Slams, snark, and insults are not indicators of a well constructed exchange.

Amir may have unintentionally created a bit of a monster, as at times he has been on the receiving end of pretty harsh treatment.  Measurements are necessary and useful, but not the complete and final answer.  Some of the regular contributors promote barely high school level experiments as scientific proof.  It has become much too tedious to wade through insults, rigid thinking, and I'm smarter than you are posts on ASR just to find the occasional nugget of valuable information.   

Dr. Toole, referred to frequently, certainly did much good work.  I think one of his quotes is very important to remember before becoming obsessed with measurements.  "Two ears and a brain respond very differently to a complex sound field — and are much more analytical — than an omni-directional mic and analyzer."

P. S. The elephant analogy was spot on!

[NeilBlanchard]

Listening is critical, and measurements are important. One without the other is not as good as both - so you can get a feel for what the reviewer is reporting.

If you missed the point of the elephant analogy - you may be unaware of the age-old parable, about 4 blind men who all describe an elephant. One finds the trunk and describes the elephant as something like a snake. Another blind man finds an ear, and describes the elephant according to what he is touching. The third blind man finds a leg, and describes the elephant as something like a tree. The fourth finds the belly, and he describes yet another account of what an elephant is.

None of the blind men are wrong - but none of them was able to accurately describe the elephant. If you only measure the elephant, all the data is out of context of the whole, living, breathing, sentient, intelligent creature.

Music is the POINT of this whole endeavor. If you never listen to music on the device under review; or if you listen, but never describe the experience of listening - then the data has no context.

And we are discussing a SPEAKER - which is the most dynamically complex component in music playback. Listening to music is the point - and it is the best way to figure out what the sum total of all the data means.

[Endo2112]

I'll drink to that, and put on some Miles,

Cheers,

Don

[Tyson]

I'll drink to that, and put on some Miles,

Cheers,

Don

And I'll put on some Monk

[Skilly]

I recognize that calling the review a "hit job" may have been harsh. However, I stand by my opinion. I use the term "hit job" because I define a "Hit Job" as going into a review with the express intent to belittle the product or undermine it through means other than an objective analysis of the correctly built kit. It got a positive recommendation, however, the reviewer went to great lengths to make clear that he was less than pleased with it. I base my characterization of the review as a hit job not only upon the aside comments from the reviewer but also by the many comments labeling Danny as  "Snake oil salesman" peppered throughout the comment thread that are not rebutted by the moderator. Comments that raise issues of cables and videos and other items not even remotely part of this particular speaker. Further, there are so many threads mentioning Danny Richie and GR Research at the site that castigate his opinions and impugn his motives. Short of outright calling him a fraud, is there anything worse that could be said about him than that he is advocating the use of expensive, useless components for profit? If you search the comments at ASR you will find that there are many comments and threads that maintain that position. I especially like the one that accuses him of being famously banned from a facebook group without any reference to context.

I am sure that I am not the only regular here that has concerns about cables and tubes connectors. I do not defend Danny Richie, as I think he is more than capable of speaking his own mind if he chooses to do so. But my mind is open and my mouth is shut. Shut because, I do not have the experience to issue an educated and experienced opinion, not to mention that the topic is one where opinions are known to vary and civility demands no less. What I like about this forum is not that it is an echo chamber, which would be odd for a speaker forum anyway, but because it is a community for the motivated and curious. It welcomes novices and experienced alike. It provides answers for those who question, opinions for those who seek them, and patience for those who do not know what they don't know. For that I am thankful. When I see it lacking elsewhere, I feel sad.

[Scott Joplin]

Is anyone aware of any measurements of Danny's "L-frame" OB speakers, I'm particularly interested in the polar responses? Thanks.

[Danny Richie]

I recognize that calling the review a "hit job" may have been harsh. However, I stand by my opinion. I use the term "hit job" because I define a "Hit Job" as going into a review with the express intent to belittle the product or undermine it through means other than an objective analysis of the correctly built kit. It got a positive recommendation, however, the reviewer went to great lengths to make clear that he was less than pleased with it. I base my characterization of the review as a hit job not only upon the aside comments from the reviewer but also by the many comments labeling Danny as  "Snake oil salesman" peppered throughout the comment thread that are not rebutted by the moderator. Comments that raise issues of cables and videos and other items not even remotely part of this particular speaker. Further, there are so many threads mentioning Danny Richie and GR Research at the site that castigate his opinions and impugn his motives. Short of outright calling him a fraud, is there anything worse that could be said about him than that he is advocating the use of expensive, useless components for profit? If you search the comments at ASR you will find that there are many comments and threads that maintain that position. I especially like the one that accuses him of being famously banned from a facebook group without any reference to context.

I am sure that I am not the only regular here that has concerns about cables and tubes connectors. I do not defend Danny Richie, as I think he is more than capable of speaking his own mind if he chooses to do so. But my mind is open and my mouth is shut. Shut because, I do not have the experience to issue an educated and experienced opinion, not to mention that the topic is one where opinions are known to vary and civility demands no less. What I like about this forum is not that it is an echo chamber, which would be odd for a speaker forum anyway, but because it is a community for the motivated and curious. It welcomes novices and experienced alike. It provides answers for those who question, opinions for those who seek them, and patience for those who do not know what they don't know. For that I am thankful. When I see it lacking elsewhere, I feel sad.

I've tried to stay clear of the forum to forum exchanges and have commented very little about any of this, but in this case I would like to chime in and say to you that your observations are spot on. And I appreciate that you recognize not only the differences in the two forums but all the goodness that we have here on AC.

Thank You!

[Danny Richie]

Is anyone aware of any measurements of Danny's "L-frame" OB speakers, I'm particularly interested in the polar responses? Thanks.

I have off axis measurement to 40 degrees off axis on all of them. What are you wanting to see?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I have off axis measurement to 40 degrees off axis on all of them. What are you wanting to see?

I think he's looking for a full set of 360° set of measurements?

[Danny Richie]

I think he's looking for a full set of 360° set of measurements?

I never measure them out that far.

The next time I have one set up then I'll give it a go.

[Texbychoice]

Taking the high road would be preferred to avoid squabbles between forums.  That being said, the XLS-Encore build and review process by ASR has been uniquely different.  If handled in a professional un-biased manner then no reason for discord between forums.  A bit ironic that Amir now under scrutiny for his review of the DIY Carmody S2000.  Although, that thread has devolved more to a food fight between posts about who is the smartest.  It's like watching a horror movie.  You are not sure you really want to risk nightmares, but you can't stop watching.

 

[Scott Joplin]

I think he's looking for a full set of 360° set of measurements?

Yes, that's right, you remembered  Seems I need to keep jogging Danny's memory. I'm a little surprised the polar response of a dipole isn't something that interests enough to take measurements of it.

[Peter J]

Yes, that's right, you remembered  Seems I need to keep jogging Danny's memory. I'm a little surprised the polar response of a dipole isn't something that interests enough to take measurements of it.

Well Scott,  I have to admit you've got me curious. What would seeing 360° measurements actually inform?  How would you interpret such info? Even if known, would the more conventional measuring techniques be invalidated? Not dogging you, but am curious.

[jtwrace]

There is a ton written about this from Toole, Geddes, Olive, Parham, Harman and many others.


https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/02/spinorama-cea-2034-2015-ansi-data-format.html

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/directivity.pdf

https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/selah_audio_purezza/

[Danny Richie]

Well Scott,  I have to admit you've got me curious. What would seeing 360° measurements actually inform?  How would you interpret such info? Even if known, would the more conventional measuring techniques be invalidated? Not dogging you, but am curious.

The real interest is out to about 40 degrees off axis. After that the cancellation of the open baffle will cause more of a null.

And it is good that the rear wave is in phase and maintains a similar response. It won't be as perfect as the frontal on axis but then again even if it were identical to the front on axis, it will still have to deal with a less than perfect front wall reflection. And what happens the from the front wall reflection is completely dominated by how the wall is treated rather than the output of the speaker.

[Scott Joplin]

Well Scott,  I have to admit you've got me curious. What would seeing 360° measurements actually inform?  How would you interpret such info? Even if known, would the more conventional measuring techniques be invalidated? Not dogging you, but am curious.

There's nothing unconventional about polar response plots of dipoles, in fact the opposite is true. Also see the post after yours.

[Scott Joplin]

The real interest is out to about 40 degrees off axis. After that the cancellation of the open baffle will cause more of a null.

I want to see the nature of the nulls and how the different sized wings either side effect them.

[Danny Richie]

I want to see the nature of the nulls and how the different sized wings either side effect them.

The next time I have one up on the measurement system I'll shoot them all the way around.

[Danny Richie]

I want to see the nature of the nulls and how the different sized wings either side effect them.

The length of the side wing will push the center point of the cancellation back a little bit.

It is really a drop in the bucket compared to the room reflections though.

[Scott Joplin]

Thanks, that's what I've seen in simulations, it would be nice to see an L-frame measured though, there aren't many about and I think it has the potential to be a useful solution. I've been experimenting with reducing baffle diffraction using large round overs and that is effective at reducing the on axis ripple due to edge diffraction.