Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?

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James Romeyn

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Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« on: 13 Jul 2015, 09:43 pm »
I would love to hear opinions regarding multiple mono cartridges from $150 (model Herb Reichert raved about a couple months ago in Stereophile) up to $1k MSRP (I presume at this price Miyajima's Premium Ebony Cross Coil Mono is ideal).   

Especially considering one of Peter Ledermann's Soundsmith moving iron cartridges (all his cartridges available in mono).   

I made the mistake of hearing the $2k Miyajima Zero cartridge at 2014 RMAF.  Thanks to David Sckolnik for one of the best reproduced demos ever (Beatles mono, which I promptly purchased).  It was like David raised George and John from the grave. 

TT: Custom solid 1.5" thick aircraft grade aluminum plinth cut by master machinist for Emipre 208 bearing/motor/platter/switch.  Solid maple cabinet, 1" MDF base.  Dynamat under the platter and atop the base.  75 lbs.  Among the best TTs I've heard, stunning performer throughout, no weak area. 

Arm: Audio-Technica AT-1100 same as Signet XK-50.  Effective mass: straight tube 6g, S-tube 12.5g (I prefer Poul Lindegaard's higher resonance of 15-18 Hz). 

RIAA stage: currently only MM input but access to good MC input. 

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« Last Edit: 14 Jul 2015, 12:25 am by James Romeyn »

Art_Chicago

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #1 on: 13 Jul 2015, 11:43 pm »
this looks like an advertisement to me, not a question  :dunno:

neobop

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jul 2015, 12:12 am »
"(I prefer Poul Lindegaard's higher resonance of 15-18 Hz)." 

Please explain.
neo

James Romeyn

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jul 2015, 12:24 am »
this looks like an advertisement to me, not a question  :dunno:

It's impossible to accurately reply w/o knowing the system.  I'll remove the award note and hope this makes you happy, but not holding my breath. 

Can you contribute any mono cartridge advice?

We all thank you for volunteering for neighborhood forum patrol. 

sunnydaze

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jul 2015, 02:18 am »
Well, you are not drooling over Salk or AVA,  so perhaps he's upset?     :icon_lol:

Art_Chicago

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jul 2015, 02:47 am »
Well, you are not drooling over Salk or AVA,  so perhaps he's upset?     :icon_lol:

I have not paid any attention to the brand names in the OP.
Enjoy!

ACHiPo

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jul 2015, 03:05 am »
I think the OP is looking for mono cartridge recommendations that won't break the bank, and I'm in.  I'm toying with the idea of adding a mono rig as well, hearing the raves and knowing that the mono portion of my collection seems to be growing (not to mention that a lot of my stereo stuff might benefit from a mono reproduction).

woodsyi

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jul 2015, 12:21 pm »
Let's not be chippy this morning and concentrate on the original quest at hand.  Art's comment was not necessary but valid to some extent and the OP has edited enough to not to be promoting specific products.  Let me take this opportunity to share my thoughts on this matter.

Let's try to give those folks in the industry a little slack as it's not easy to negotiate the nebulous boundary line of self promotion and sharing audio knowledge/experience.  Long ago when Duke was just starting his own business, I asked him not to stop posting on other circles because of his then new commercial status.  But the truth is that he has curtailed chiming in on discussions because a lot of what he knows and believes in are reflected in his commercial products.  He is not as free to discuss finer points of music reproduction and I miss that.  James is in a similar situation.  I enjoy speaking to him at shows and what not but, you know, he is in business and he has to watch out.

I encourage all commercial members to chime in on discussions on this board.  Share your knowledge and experiences but refrain from mentioning your own commercial line and certainly no prices.  I love to hear more about the underlying technologies and techniques involved in successful commercial products  -- just don't give me a sales pitch on this circle which is commercial free.
 
Back to the original question:  I don't know.  I picked up a Zero a few years ago at RMAF.  I went to Robyatt Audio (the sole Miyajima dealer?) room as the RMAF was winding down on Sunday and made a cash offer that Robin "couldn't" refuse.  I like the Zero but I don't have any experience with other mono carts.  I had hell of a time with humming issue on setting up the Zero but finally got it under control with a new TT and arm.  I would like to know what else is out there too. 

JohnR

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jul 2015, 12:42 pm »
Curiously, just last night I dropped in on a friend who showed off his mono cartridge and setup.

woodsyi

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jul 2015, 12:54 pm »
Curiously, just last night I dropped in on a friend who showed off his mono cartridge and setup.

What is your impression?

JohnR

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #10 on: 14 Jul 2015, 01:05 pm »
Hi Rim, to be honest, I was more impressed with the speed stability of the table. I'm not super mad about his speakers, but reading through that, it really sounded nice. I don't have a basis for comparison with stereo carts on his system but his feeling was that the mono carts did a much better job with mono records that sounded bad on a stereo cart, and a better job with records that sounded good on a stereo cart.

He did mention the model, as I recall his current mono cart is his third (upgrade path). I don't remember what it was, this is still mostly greek to me, I'll ask what him what it is.

neobop

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #11 on: 14 Jul 2015, 04:20 pm »
I don't know why the Japanese mfg all seem to think a spherical stylus is the way to go with all mono recordings.  With the quality of modern Japanese mono reissues, I'd think they would know better.  I suspect Miyajima monos are the 103's with romance, of the mono world.  The presentation is always better with a mono cart on a mono record.  People hear this at a show and become converts, but throw out the baby (resolution) with the bathwater IMO. 

Depending on your records you might want to consider something more advanced tip-wise.  In the price range the Quintet Mono at least has an elliptical:
http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-Quintet-Mono-Phono-Cartridge

For a few hundred over the price limit, the Cadenza Mono (fine line) looks good.  I'd take most Soundsmith over a Miyajima.  Romantic sounds great on some recordings, but not on most of my stuff.   When the colorations don't work it gets on your nerves.  That's why I sold all my romantic carts. 
To each his own.
neo

BTW, I'm still waiting for an explanation about Poul Lindegaard and the tonearm resonance nonsense.   I don't know who he is, but .....

roscoeiii

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jul 2015, 07:12 pm »
I love my Miyajima, the one around $1k MRSP. Fabulous sound.

IIRC from my mono search there are also some nice seeming mono carts from Grado, ZYX and Shelter in the price range being discussed. That Shelter may be a touch north of $1k. Benz also offers some mono carts, but last I looked into them, there were availability/distribution issues for some reason. Hopefully that has passed.

googlymoogly

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #13 on: 16 Jul 2015, 05:52 pm »
Peter at Soundsmith modifies Denon 103 carts to mono.  They sound very good, too, if you like the 103's sound. 

I agree that a more advanced stylus benefits more recent mono LP reissues.  Audio Technica has a couple of mono cartridges that fit your budget, but I haven't heard those.

S Clark

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #14 on: 16 Jul 2015, 09:09 pm »
Peter at Soundsmith modifies Denon 103 carts to mono.  They sound very good, too, if you like the 103's sound. 

I agree that a more advanced stylus benefits more recent mono LP reissues.  Audio Technica has a couple of mono cartridges that fit your budget, but I haven't heard those.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy the Denon 102 at $250?

googlymoogly

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #15 on: 17 Jul 2015, 12:15 am »
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy the Denon 102 at $250?

Yes, but the Denon 102, while a pretty good mono cart, requires the user to rig up a way to connect both sets of leads, if he wants to use the cart in a 2-channel setup.  The 102 also has a relatively limited frequency response, compared to most mono-dedicated cartridges, which tend to utilize frequencies from 20,000 hz - and 20,000 or 25,000 khz.  The Denon 102 covers a freq response of only 50 hz - 10 kHz.

On the other hand, it has sufficient output to obviate using a step-up or head amp into the phono stage.

I mentioned the AT mono cartridges before - I didn't include the links.  Pretty good prices:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-33MONO-Moving-Cartridge-Import/dp/B000WM4S3G

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT-MONO3-LP-Moving-Cartridge/dp/B0002ERE2Q

But none of these beat the Miyajima mono carts, which are excellent.  If Miyajima does make one around $1000 USD, I bet it would be a winner, if your tonearm can accommodate its particulars.

EDIT: I see that Miyajima does make a lower-cost mono cartridge. 

S Clark

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #16 on: 17 Jul 2015, 02:46 am »
  The 102 also has a relatively limited frequency response, compared to most mono-dedicated cartridges, which tend to utilize frequencies from 20,000 hz - and 20,000 or 25,000 khz.  The Denon 102 covers a freq response of only 50 hz - 10 kHz.

Although the 102 does have limited playback range, it's not as limited as most think.  Unlike nearly every other cartridge, the spec of 50 hz- 10khz is for a +- 2 db range, not the usual 3.  I'd probably add 10 hz at the bottom and a couple of thousand at the top.
But those AT cartridges look interesting.

googlymoogly

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #17 on: 17 Jul 2015, 04:04 am »
A user would still be dealing with the hookup issues, unless the OP is wanting to just use a single channel for playback (which he may).  If he is wanting a cart mainly to play modern mono reissues like the Beatles mono vinyl box (a really great reissue set!) or the Dylan mono box on a 2-channel rig, a better bet is likely a dual-coil contemporary mono cartridge with greater frequency range and a more advanced stylus, IMO.

That first Audio-Technica mono is inexpensive enough that I might buy one to try out.

neobop

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Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #18 on: 17 Jul 2015, 08:37 pm »
A user would still be dealing with the hookup issues, unless the OP is wanting to just use a single channel for playback (which he may).  If he is wanting a cart mainly to play modern mono reissues like the Beatles mono vinyl box (a really great reissue set!) or the Dylan mono box on a 2-channel rig, a better bet is likely a dual-coil contemporary mono cartridge with greater frequency range and a more advanced stylus, IMO.

That first Audio-Technica mono is inexpensive enough that I might buy one to try out.

Welcome to Vinyl Circle,
The 102 has extra long pins that will accommodate 2 sets of clips.  Still, that's not always possible depending on the style of clip. 
Just about every mono cart is designed for a med/heavy arm.  The AT Mono3 and 33 are no exception, the Mono3 being a little more compliant.  The Ortofon 2M Mono is 18cu and is the highest compliance mono I found.

I bought a Mono3 at Amazon.  Current price is around $130.  Recommended VTF is 2g.  It's a HOMC with an output of 1.2mV which could be too low for some systems, but works fine for me.  Like all AT's there's some break-in time involved, but seems to be settling in nicely now that I've gone through a bunch of records.  It has good resolution for a .65mil spherical.  Recommended load is between 40 - 47K (I believe).  A couple of old records seemed just a bit zingy, but most seem balanced.  A 400K resistor in parallel with a MM input will yield about 42K if you want to tone it down.

With a mono record the presentation from a mono cart is superior, but it might not have the resolution of a better stereo cart.  Be that as it may, the cart does a pretty good job and I find it enjoyable on all my mono pressings.  I didn't realize how many I had until I started going through my collection. 
Maybe when the tip wears I'll have an elliptical or line trace put on, but for now I'm not worrying about it. 

Standard compliance is vertical compliance which might not mean much with mono.  The Ortofon figure is lateral.  Vertical compliance is usually close to the lateral figure.   With most arms (med/high mass) you shouldn't have a problem with most low cu mono carts.   With a low mass arm I think you'd be okay with the AT, but I haven't tried it. 
neo


Sonny

Re: Mono cartridges under $1k MSRP?
« Reply #19 on: 17 Jul 2015, 11:13 pm »
I have a Benz Ace Mono and really love it...affordable and sounds great with Mono records!