AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The HiRez Music Circle => Topic started by: eclein on 30 Dec 2010, 11:15 pm
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I read a review on the latest Brian Eno release in Toneaudio's pub and saw a link to:
BLEEP.com
Downloading a 24bit wav file of Eno as I type, 11.99 seems pretty good to me....
Just thought I'd let you guys know about this website, I'm probably the last one here to find it but you never know
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Went there are reading the review but haven't checked out any of the other artists yet. I thought you could hear the songs before buying but that must have been on Eno's website. Saw some cool videos of them recording the album too.
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I am curious what the "24-bit" files are? 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96?
No mention of that and nothing on the Help > Buying Downloads FAQ except an explanation of the differences between MP3, WAV and FLAC.
Ed, when you say you are downloading a WAV file, are you downloading a zipfile containing multiple WAV files? Hopefully these are not 16/44.1 files upsampled to 24-bit. I just wish there was more information on the site.
Steve
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Its a zip file, I know that much, still downloading. Steve do I look in properties of the files to see if 24/44.1 etc...???
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737 MB....as soon as its finished I'll dissect it
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Tone audio's latest issue with the review says its 24/44.1...we shall see how it sounds in another 25 minutes
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Just looking at the file properties won't reveal anything. If I take a 16/44.1 file and re-process it to 24/96, the file properties will say 24/96, but 8 bits of zeros will have been added to pad it to 24-bit and resampling it to 96KHz won't change anything either.
There have been cases of some "high-res" files from reputable sources like HD Tracks and Linn Records that were upsampled from 16/44.1. No intent to defraud in my mind, just stuff that slipped through the cracks and wasn't audited.
There may be legitimate 24/44.1 and 24/48 files that were ripped from DVD-Audio. Because there was no attempt to specify the sampling rate of the files on bleep.com, I was a little suspicious, as other high resolution download sites will specify the sampling rate.
With the proper audio editing program, you should be able to tell if the file was merely upsampled from 16/44.1 or not, as these files would have no data above 22.05KHz (whether audible or not).
I'll let others who have used these programs to analyze files, elaborate.
Steve
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Bleep is a quality site. It's associated with Warp Records.
Thumbs up from me. :thumb:
Also, it usually says whether the files are 16/44, 24/96 etc in the description. If it doesn't, they are usually 16/44 just like the CDs.
For example, from Autechre - Move Of Ten:
"Your choice of 16bit / 44.1kHz or 24bit / 44.1kHz WAV version of the album"
And then on the buy buttons: "WAV 24bit Download $8.49 Buy"
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I got the album, big file, sounds awesome but what a pita to get itunes to see it. I unzipped the file to a folder, the folder had 15 wav files in it, and I had to go into every file manually and label artist, album, track and then itunes finally recognized it. I tried import folder, import file, zip.....pain in the _alls.
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I got the album, big file, sounds awesome but what a pita to get itunes to see it. I unzipped the file to a folder, the folder had 15 wav files in it, and I had to go into every file manually and label artist, album, track and then itunes finally recognized it. I tried import folder, import file, zip.....pain in the _alls.
Welcome to WAV files! The file specification doesn't have embedded tags like AIFF, FLAC or ALAC. Of course, if they did offer FLAC files, you would have needed to convert them to AIFF to get them into iTunes, tags intact.
Also, it usually says whether the files are 16/44, 24/96 etc in the description. If it doesn't, they are usually 16/44 just like the CDs.
I had only looked at the album I thought eclein may have selected - "Brian Eno - Small Craft On A Milk Sea" and it only said "24-bit audiophile quality WAV download"
As I mentioned, there wasn't any general information on what "24-bit audiophile" downloads were, no mention of sample rate either in the description or the Buy button, and although it might be indicated on other albums, I didn't investigate any other offerings.
Steve
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Each file says "Bit Rate 2116kbps"...mean anything good?? LOL
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Each file says "Bit Rate 2116kbps"...mean anything good?? LOL
Yes, that says to me 24/44.1. It could have been simply upsampled from 16/44.1 to 24/44.1 (accomplishing nothing), but I will assume it's a legitimate file unless proven otherwise. I believe the Beatles USB thumb drive set release was also in 24/44.1.
I would prefer 24/96 if available from a digital master or digitized from an analog master. 24/88.2 would be good too, but not quite as compatible as 24/96 (There are some DACs that do 24/96 but not 24/88.2)
Steve
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I opened it in Ableton LIVE to see if I could discern anything useful-Nope, Foobar- Nope, I don't have a good audio slice and dice program anymore so its still a mystery.... :scratch:
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I opened it in Ableton LIVE to see if I could discern anything useful-Nope, Foobar- Nope, I don't have a good audio slice and dice program anymore so its still a mystery.... :scratch:
Foobar tells me at the bottom of the album art section of my foobar setup. I'll jump in and buy and let you know. My Weiss DAC2 will tell me. :)
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Ted...i got the same numbers from Foobar, at the bottom....
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I don't see how those indicators would have any relevance as to whether they were upsampled from a 24/44.1 file or not. That would just tell what format the file is now.
I know if an audio editor program can display frequency, that if there was absolutely no data above 22.05KHz, that might indicate an original sampling rate of 44.1KHz. I'm not sure what view would determine if the original was 16-bit or 24-bit.
Steve
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Ted...i got the same numbers from Foobar, at the bottom....
Weird, cuz my Foobar will show sample rate (see underline and circled numbers..in this case 96k)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=40700)
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"With the proper audio editing program, you should be able to tell if the file was merely upsampled from 16/44.1 or not, as these files would have no data above 22.05KHz (whether audible or not)."
SRB - using something like Audacity, I take it? It'd be great if you also listed this khz level for other standard resolutions ... 24/96 etc.
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Ted, my point is that if you give me a ripped redbook 16/44.1 file, and I upsample it to 24/96 (with no real gain in file quality or resolution), the reprocessed file will show 24/96 in the file properties, foobar and any other player's file info.
Jamesg11, I will have to do a little research, but I believe mgalusha here on Audio Circle posted some frequency screenshots comparing files that were from 24/96 masters and files from upsampled 16/44.1 files.
Edit: Here is the post:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76360.0
Steve
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I was of the understanding from this thread that we mainly need to determine the sample rate of this file/folder you guys bought, right (some think 24/44, others not sure)? A secondary issue is whether the files are upsampled from original redbook or are true hirez.....is there a direct reason why we are asking this? Do they sound less than what folks were expecting, and therefore suspect a faux hirez upsampled example?
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Ted, my point is that if you give me a ripped redbook 16/44.1 file, and I upsample it to 24/96 (with no real gain in file quality or resolution), the reprocessed file will show 24/96 in the file properties, foobar and any other player's file info.
Jamesg11, I will have to do a little research, but I believe mgalusha here on Audio Circle posted some frequency screenshots comparing files that were from 24/96 masters and files from upsampled 16/44.1 files.
Steve
But you DIDN'T upsample it! Just check the sample rate. But to answer the larger issue that has cropped up...that is, whether this album is fake hirez (upsampled redbook) that can not easily be determined since even Audacity can show errors. But in theory if the spectrogram is showing a brickwall at 22k, then yes it's likely a redbook source. I can do that once I have a copy. Does someone want to dropbox me a song? If so, PM me with your email and I'll invite you to my dropbox.
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A secondary issue is whether the files are upsampled from original redbook or are true hirez.....is there a direct reason why we are asking this? Do they sound less than what folks were expecting, and therefore suspect a faux hirez upsampled example?
If it's the album I think was downloaded, there was no reference to the sampling rate, only the bit depth, so I was curious (and perhaps a little skeptical) about what was actually being sold.
Steve
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If it's the album I think was downloaded, there was no reference to the sampling rate, only the bit depth, so I was curious (and perhaps a little skeptical) about what was actually being sold.
Steve
But the sample rate (even though there was no reference) will show up in any music player, like foobar (as my screengrab shows). What am I missing here?? Just look at the sample rate...that will tell you what you bought, period (which is a question being asked over 4-5 times on this thread). It will, of course, NOT tell you what the original master tape or sourced file was....that's a whole different question which can be evaluated, to some extent, with Audacity, but is not foolproof. Brian Eno has done plenty of hirez before, but I've heard nothing to that extent on his latest project, Small Craft On A Milk Sea.
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The files sound good to me, we were just curious about how high the high res was and if we could somehow figure it out from looking at something that would be displayed along with the file properties. Curiosity on my part.
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The files sound good to me, we were just curious about how high the high res was and if we could somehow figure it out from looking at something that would be displayed along with the file properties. Curiosity on my part.
The answer is yes, the file properties show the native sample rate. No figuring out needed.
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The files sound good to me, we were just curious about how high the high res was and if we could somehow figure it out from looking at something that would be displayed along with the file properties. Curiosity on my part.
Although iTunes doesn't have a column for sample rate and bit depth, the Bit Rate column can be used to indicate it. For uncompressed WAV or AIFF files
1411 kbps = 16/44.1
1536 kbps = 16/48
2116 kbps = 24/44.1
2304 kbps = 24/48
4232 kbps = 24/88.2
4608 kbps = 24/96
8464 kbps = 24/176.4
9216 kbps = 24/192
Steve
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Dumb Question... Can music files purchased online be burned to a CD and be played back on a CDP?
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Dumb Question... Can music files purchased online be burned to a CD and be played back on a CDP?
Yes, if they are 16-bit/44.1KHz files (or down-converted) which is the limit of a CD Player.
Steve
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Although iTunes doesn't have columns for sample rate and bit depth, the Bit Rate column can be used to indicate it. For uncompressed WAV or AIFF files
1411 kbps = 16/44.1
1536 kbps = 16/48
2116 kbps = 24/44.1
2304 kbps = 24/48
4232 kbps = 24/88.2
4608 kbps = 24/96
Steve
(This the weirdest thread I've ever been a part of) Steve, why would you say iTunes doesn't have a "sample rate" column...it does, always has! No need to do any math. This whole thread has been about finding the sample rate of a bought or downloaded file; it is very easy, it is present in all metadata, or in iTunes, or in foobar or anywhere you play the file. I only sound frustrated cuz I've been saying this since my first post but no one believes me. :(
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Steve, why would you say iTunes doesn't have a "sample rate" column...it does, always has!
Sorry, there is a Sample Rate column, but not a Bit Depth column.
Steve
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By the way, I just downloaded a song from Brian Eno. It's a 24/44.1k file. Sounds very good, too...Audacity won't show much cuz frequency response in a spectrogram isn't much higher than redbook, just 24 bit.
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By the way, I just downloaded a song from Brian Eno. It's a 24/44.1k file. Sounds very good, too...Audacity won't show much cuz frequency response in a spectrogram isn't much higher than redbook, just 24 bit.
Ted, sorry to frustrate you! I know you must have a pretty good assortment of high res files (I don't have very many yet). Have you personally found that the biggest improvement is increasing the bit depth from 16-bit to 24-bit, and that the increase in sampling rate from 44.1KHz to 96KHz makes much less of a difference?
Steve
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Ted, sorry to frustrate you! I know you must have a pretty good assortment of high res files (I don't have very many yet). Have you personally found that the biggest improvement is increasing the bit depth from 16-bit to 24-bit, and that the increase in sampling rate from 44.1KHz to 96KHz makes much less of a difference?
Steve
Yes, Steve, I've found that the bump to 24 bit is a big one. The next biggest jump is to 192k from anything 96k or below. YMMV.
BTW, I guess I'm just tired...my bad. I'm going to bed, now. :)
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Yes, if they are 16-bit/44.1KHz files (or down-converted) which is the limit of a CD Player.
Thanks Steve,
Not sure about my CDP which serves has a transport - but my DAC (Beresford) says it can do 24-Bit/96-kHz - so I'll try a high res file and compare it to a 16-bit/44.1KHz file.
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Since my modded hiFAce MK2 i have bought ( mostly HD tracks) 96 Khz aand 88.2 Khz files and most ( yet) to my bitter disappointment.
I anticipated more 3D, more air, more transparency..
MORE important during the AD conversion is the clock "quality" of the AD converter completely unrelated to to bit depth or sample freq.
I dare to say that a very low jitter clock conversion to red book CD specs sounds superior than 96 or 192 khz recorded with standard "inferior" clocks with mediocre pws.
I will list this week the files i find inferior to my best 44.1 16 bit CD's. Luckily i did find some 96 khz files which were marginally better and one which was superior
It is a dream to believe the majority of recording studios will really focus to strive for lowest jitter even during recording 384 khz*
This is my experience with some HD material selling websites incl (HD tracks, http://www.2l.no) though I have NO exp. yet with BLEEP