AudioCircle
Community => Regional Audiophiles => Gateway Audio Society => Topic started by: kentj1948 on 2 Nov 2017, 09:56 pm
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I got an email today from McIntosh announcing a new amp. The MA 252 is a hybrid--tubed input and solid state power. It is rated at 100/160 WPC. It includes bass and treble controls and a phono input. There are three line inputs as well, one of which is XLR. I have no idea of cost but I would assume at least $6000.
Here is the link: http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=integratedamps&ProductId=MA252
Kent
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$3500
http://robbreport.com/gear/audio/mcintosh-ma252-first-hybrid-integrated-amplifier-2756516/
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That's pretty sexy :thumb:
(http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/Assets/Images/Products/MA252/XL_MA252_Angle_Right.jpg)
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12AX7 12AT7, even not using 6SN7 its a interesting amp,
I just dont understand why tone controls?
The amp need it or the speaker need it?
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12AX7 12AT7, even not using 6SN7 its a interesting amp,
I just dont understand why tone controls?
The amp need it or the speaker need it?
Where did you see the tone controls? Pretty cool amp.
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Where did you see the tone controls? Pretty cool amp.
You have to read the site.
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I hate those green LEDs under the tubes. Looks so unnatural. I've read they can be turned off.
I suspect there will be people who love this integrated.
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The leds will heat the tubes even more.
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A lot of the Mac preamps have tone controls. It seem to be a popular feature amongst their followers. I think you have to push in the input select and it brings up the tone controls on the display.
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Maybe via remote control :scratch:
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The leds will heat the tubes even more.
You're saying that light emitting diodes have enough energy that they're capable of increasing the normal operating temperature of a vacuum tube?
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From the online PDF manual. There is more information on adjusting bass and treble but you get the idea.
TONE CONTROL
The Tone Controls default setting is On. The TRIM
TREBLE and BASS Settings may be adjusted for the
currently selected Input Source. When the Tone Controls
are Disabled the previous settings for Treble and
Bass are bypassed from the signal path. To deactivate
Tone Controls perform the following:
1. Select the desired Input Source.
2. Press the TRIM Push-button on the Remote Control
until “TONE CONTROLS, On” appears on
the Front Panel Display. Refer to figure 61.
3. Press ◄ (Left) directional Push-button to deactivate
the Tone Controls. Refer to figure 62.
Note: When the TONE CONTROLS Setting is Off, the
BASS and TREBLE Controls will be inactive.
FullRangeMan, Green LEDs are cool. It is the red ones that are hot. :slap: Seriously???
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From the online PDF manual. There is more information on adjusting bass and treble but you get the idea.
TONE CONTROL
The Tone Controls default setting is On. The TRIM
TREBLE and BASS Settings may be adjusted for the
currently selected Input Source. When the Tone Controls
are Disabled the previous settings for Treble and
Bass are bypassed from the signal path. To deactivate
Tone Controls perform the following:
1. Select the desired Input Source.
2. Press the TRIM Push-button on the Remote Control
until “TONE CONTROLS, On” appears on
the Front Panel Display. Refer to figure 61.
3. Press ◄ (Left) directional Push-button to deactivate
the Tone Controls. Refer to figure 62.
Note: When the TONE CONTROLS Setting is Off, the
BASS and TREBLE Controls will be inactive.
FullRangeMan, Green LEDs are cool. It is the red ones that are hot. :slap: Seriously???
This is a shame, if this amp need tone controls to sound properly it keep the amp in the Mid-Fi grade, it seems more suited to the Life Style category imo.
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I think tone controls are fine and may help McIntosh sell more. Most people buying McIntosh aren't necessarily purists...and that's completely OK in my book. If someone told me they bought McIntosh purely for the name and esthetics, I think this is totally acceptable. It's not my $. To each their own. I'd find solace in the fact that at least McIntosh stuff is pretty well made and performs well (some models better than others). There are far worse choices out there, including stuff that doesn't have tone controls.
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I think tone controls are fine and may help McIntosh sell more. Most people buying McIntosh aren't necessarily purists...and that's completely OK in my book. If someone told me they bought McIntosh purely for the name and esthetics, I think this is totally acceptable. It's not my $. To each their own. I'd find solace in the fact that at least McIntosh stuff is pretty well made and performs well (some models better than others). There are far worse choices out there, including stuff that doesn't have tone controls.
Ah Mac is not Hi-Fi, now I understand.
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Yes, you can understand what you choose and formulate your own definition of "Hi-Fi" to fit your personal biases. That is correct.
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This is a shame, if this amp need tone controls to sound properly it keep the amp in the Mid-Fi grade, it seems more suited to the Life Style category imo.
.....Ah Mac is not Hi-Fi, now I understand.
You clearly have never listened to a Mac amp before.
The use of tone controls is a choice, not a requirement...but go ahead, exclude a BIG chunk of music out there because it sounds like hammered shit on your "Hi-Fi" system. Me, I think I'll crank the bass up a bit or trim the treble a tad with my tone controls so I can enjoy ALL of my music regardless of the recording quality....on my mid-fi rig :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132211&size=large)
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Scott, you are just a beer drinking, midfi sort of guy at heart! :-)
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It was said the tone controls are the standard default, obviously at the amp front end microchip preamp circuit.
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Scott, you are just a beer drinking, midfi sort of guy at heart! :)
That describes me to a "T"
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You clearly have never listened to a Mac amp before.
Too expensive, Scott.
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I'm with Scott, they are there when needed, (if the tone controls can be switched out). But Why did Mcintosh make it digitally controlled? :scratch: The LED's under the tubes should have been red or orange. :lol:
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You clearly have never listened to a Mac amp before.
The use of tone controls is a choice, not a requirement...but go ahead, exclude a BIG chunk of music out there because it sounds like hammered shit on your "Hi-Fi" system. Me, I think I'll crank the bass up a bit or trim the treble a tad with my tone controls so I can enjoy ALL of my music regardless of the recording quality....on my mid-fi rig :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132211&size=large)
I though you was a tube man Scott.
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I was a tube man, until Class D came along and kicked my tubes ass out the door. :lol:
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A tube input stage and a CLassD stage would be great.
What is your D amp now?
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DAC Cherry Maraschino King mono amps. :green:
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170851)
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I though you was a tube man Scott.
I am still. The big Mac system just has a tubed pre. I run a few more vintage systems that are all tubed (HH Scott 299's). No more SETs though. Just got tired of feeding them expensive tubes every year.
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Just got tired of feeding them expensive tubes every year.
:thumbdown: No complaint here I run Russian tubes :thumb:
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This is a shame, if this amp need tone controls to sound properly it keep the amp in the Mid-Fi grade, it seems more suited to the Life Style category imo.
Tone controls are essential if your going to get the very best out of your system. Most of them are found in pro audio though. The schiit loki mini makes the Mac tone controls a moot point but to each his own. I run a sony se-p900 that set me back a pretty penny. Would not have it any other way.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132211&size=large)
Man, your listening room sure has changed since I last visited! Very nice!
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Tone controls are essential if your going to get the very best out of your system. Most of them are found in pro audio though. The schiit loki mini makes the Mac tone controls a moot point but to each his own. I run a sony se-p900 that set me back a pretty penny. Would not have it any other way.
Sorry Jibzilla I was not clear, I will try again:
If an amp or pre amp has tone controls or Flectcher-Munsson Loudness in the circuit it is a mid fi equip, due to the disastrous effects these devices cause to the music signal.
An even worse situation would be if an amp needs tone controls to have some audible satisfactory bass or tolerable treble, this means that without tone control this amp linearity is not satisfactory neither to the human ear nor more to a freq chart 20 / 20kHz, obviously the target of this kind of equip are not hi-fi audio.
The fact that tone controls exist in pro audio equipment are unfortunate and it is not a worthy example of any sound quality, they has tone controls by necessity due the low quality of circuits and speakers used, since guitars, basses and keyboards have all their own tone controls.
The pro-audio amps have tone controls by necessity due the low quality of circuits and speakers, they are not a reference to high-fidelity equipment, quite the contrary, guitar tube amps are designed to produce high distortion for guitarists to be satisfied with the sound, guitarists call this distortion harmonics, bright, tone body etc and these guitars amps have many tone controls as bass, mid, treble, presence, compressor, reverb some bass amps even have an graphic Eq as Hartke HA series.
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Man, your listening room sure has changed since I last visited! Very nice!
Hiya Bob
Hope retirement is all you planned it to be!
Yep, big changes in the system. It's not near as resolving as the old system but it sure is pleasant to listen to.
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You clearly have never listened to a Mac amp before.
The use of tone controls is a choice, not a requirement...but go ahead, exclude a BIG chunk of music out there because it sounds like hammered shit on your "Hi-Fi" system. Me, I think I'll crank the bass up a bit or trim the treble a tad with my tone controls so I can enjoy ALL of my music regardless of the recording quality....on my mid-fi rig :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132211&size=large)
You realize you are coloring the sound with all of that chlorophyll placed around your loudspeakers?
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Sorry Jibzilla I was not clear, I will try again:
If an amp or pre amp has tone controls or Flectcher-Munsson Loudness in the circuit it is a mid fi equip, due to the disastrous effects these devices cause to the music signal.
An even worse situation would be if an amp needs tone controls to have some audible satisfactory bass or tolerable treble, this means that without tone control this amp linearity is not satisfactory neither to the human ear nor more to a freq chart 20 / 20kHz, obviously the target of this kind of equip are not hi-fi audio.
The fact that tone controls exist in pro audio equipment are unfortunate and it is not a worthy example of any sound quality, they has tone controls by necessity due the low quality of circuits and speakers used, since guitars, basses and keyboards have all their own tone controls.
The pro-audio amps have tone controls by necessity due the low quality of circuits and speakers, they are not a reference to high-fidelity equipment, quite the contrary, guitar tube amps are designed to produce high distortion for guitarists to be satisfied with the sound, guitarists call this distortion harmonics, bright, tone body etc and these guitars amps have many tone controls as bass, mid, treble, presence, compressor, reverb some bass amps even have an graphic Eq as Hartke HA series.
Ah ok. My pre and power amp do not have tone controls. Still I think Mac brings it well enough. I have seen worse is an excuse but it is kinda/mostly true nowadays. For me I like Sansui pre and Technics power.
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I have tone controls, and I'm not afraid to admit it. The recordings I'm able to listen to have increased since I opened my mind to the thought and idea that all recordings aren't suited to every system, so that a "nudge" here and there improves the overall playback quality and therefor increased the shear amount of music I get to listen to.
After all, I don't seek perfection, I seek happiness and enjoyment.
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... After all, I don't seek perfection, I seek happiness and enjoyment.
Hear, hear!!! :beer:
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Hear, hear!!! :beer:
Better things, for better listening enjoyment thru tone controls :thumb:
...and like BISL, I've got tone controls and I'm damned sure not afraid to use them....or bypass them, when listening to quality recordings.
Hey FRM. I defy you to listen to Oingo Boingo, Dead Mans Party at (say) 100dB and NOT wish you had tone controls at your disposal. I could list a hundred albums that have a shitty mix where tone controls make them listenable...but unfortunately, you have that clueless, lemming, purist mentality and will never get it. In turn, I hope you enjoy the same twelve albums that you listen to continuously because they sound 'the best' on your system.
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Hi Steve I agree tone controls may be addictive, too good my lasts amps dont have it anymore, I have just 1 amp w/tone controls, it was the first one, also I started to buy audio mags with 16yo and fast become a audio purist.
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I have tone controls, and I'm not afraid to admit it. The recordings I'm able to listen to have increased since I opened my mind to the thought and idea that all recordings aren't suited to every system, so that a "nudge" here and there improves the overall playback quality and therefor increased the shear amount of music I get to listen to.
After all, I don't seek perfection, I seek happiness and enjoyment.
That and no speaker is perfect. Even more than that no room is perfect.
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I don't seek perfection, I seek happiness and enjoyment.
That makes everything so much easier. :thumb:
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Better things, for better listening enjoyment thru tone controls :thumb:
...and like BISL, I've got tone controls and I'm damned sure not afraid to use them....or bypass them, when listening to quality recordings.
Hey FRM. I defy you to listen to Oingo Boingo, Dead Mans Party at (say) 100dB and NOT wish you had tone controls at your disposal. I could list a hundred albums that have a shitty mix where tone controls make them listenable...but unfortunately, you have that clueless, lemming, purist mentality and will never get it. In turn, I hope you enjoy the same twelve albums that you listen to continuously because they sound 'the best' on your system.
I think FRM and you have a point. For the absolute "best" a separate set of tone controls is the way to go. If you can put up with used my own C-2301 and SE-A100 will crush that new MA 252 like a bug for the same amount of cash. Add in a loki mini and you have some excellent tone controls. Up it to a se-p900 and you have something truly special regardless of price.
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I think FRM and you have a point. For the absolute "best" a separate set of tone controls is the way to go. If you can put up with used my own C-2301 and SE-A100 will crush that new MA 252 like a bug for the same amount of cash. Add in a loki mini and you have some excellent tone controls. Up it to a se-p900 and you have something truly special regardless of price.
Do you could do it for free in the Digital domain, dont know what is your source, but my old Sony SCD1 have 4 different Freq Range shapes on the PCM(CD) domain.
I dont know the current DACs and PC players but surely they may have much more different Freq shapes to feed the amp/preamp and please the music lover.
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Do you could do it for free in the Digital domain, dont know what is your source, but my old Sony SCD1 have 4 different Freq Range shapes on the PCM(CD) domain.
I dont know the current DACs and PC players but surely they may have much more different Freq shapes to feed the amp/preamp and please the music lover.
"Frequency shapes"....Sounds like a euphemism for "tone control".
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"Frequency shapes"....Sounds like a euphemism for "tone control".
It have only 4 shapes, I would like at least 10 options.
Tone Controls works in the analogue domain, these works in the Digital domain at the DAC processor, where the Freq Range of the entire music are assembled.
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Do you could do it for free in the Digital domain, dont know what is your source, but my old Sony SCD1 have 4 different Freq Range shapes on the PCM(CD) domain.
I dont know the current DACs and PC players but surely they may have much more different Freq shapes to feed the amp/preamp and please the music lover.
The software side is for sure where tone controls have been heading. I haven't found any yet that do it for me. Hardware wise I have found 3 at different price points that deliver. The loki mini($150), faux fairchild 627($1k) and my current sony se-p900($1750 and good luck finding one). I went through about 20 eq's to come up with that 3 and I have tried a good dozen software eq's.
Sadly this is an area of audio that has been neglected for a long time. I don't blame you for thinking they are a bad idea because most eq's were poor quality when I tested them. A few of them were quite amazing and kind of once you hear it done right there's not much going back.