[JMW73]

Yes, as in any audio device seperates are better and give more flexability. Ill follow up on recommendations here.
Maybe Ill have to hold off and build up my budget.
I realized during this that I do have a switch box in music room that I can connect an ethernet cable to and network with my pc and external drives, but ipad probably wont pair with that. Pc is about 10 years old. WiFi too, but router far away at another level.
WGH...As far as cds, very few sound good as records. Unlike many different record pressing qualitys, I thought cds aside from scads were all 16bit/96khz. I find many sound too bright, brittely, very compressed.
I dont know about your area, but used GOOD condition records are $15 & UP. New sucky digital mastered, $20 &up. And audiophile quality $40, $50 & UP. Vinyl is still hot.

WGH’s point is that DAC technology has moved fast, and even a cheap DAC likely does a much better job than the onboard DAC of your CD player. Rip you CDs to your hard drive, as he described. Play over your streamer through your new DAC, and voila, you might be surprised at how good they sound.

[WGH]

...As far as cds, very few sound good as records. Unlike many different record pressing qualitys, I thought cds aside from scads were all 16bit/96khz. I find many sound too bright, brittely, very compressed.
I dont know about your area, but used GOOD condition records are $15 & UP. New sucky digital mastered, $20 &up. And audiophile quality $40, $50 & UP. Vinyl is still hot.

Records do sound better than CDs, especially early digital recordings. All CDs are 16bit/44.1kHz. The bulk of HD Tracks albums are 24bit/96kHz, they still don't come anywhere close to the vinyl. But ...the 2009 remastered The Beatles albums (24-96) are way better than the original vinyl albums. I know my Beatles albums are original because I bought them when they were released between 1963-1970.

Some CDs are bright and brittle, Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow (1975) is the worst, nothing can help that mix. The DSD64 rip of the SACD has been remastered and is listenable. The horrible sound quality of CDs you are hearing is either the music you have or that is the sound of your CD player. You won't know until you rip some CDs to stream to your DAC. I have some early original Straight Wire Encore (not to be confused with the excellent Encore 2) interconnects that make everything sound bright and brittle.

The HoloAudio DACs make 16bit/44.1 sound like vinyl, only better but both models are stratospherically out of your current budget. Both DACs are R2R Non-Oversampling and state-of-the-art. The May does oversample but nobody uses that mode, they use HQPlayer instead.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I disagree with the guys who are saying that there is no difference in sound quality between 44 and 192K in DAC's under $400.  I use Audirvana and I can hear a difference between 44K and 192K with my Schiit Modi Plus in my budget bedroom system.  While it is not as much a difference as in my reference system with my Luxman DAC, Pass amp and BAT preamp, I can still hear a difference with a Marantz receiver and my Monitor Audio RX1 speakers.

[BikeFi10]

Ok, the dust is setteling a bit on this storm of info.
So I guess what I want is to stream from the internet and be able to buy and store on my local external hard drive.
Please review my following understanding to be clear.
 I need a streamer, music app, DAC, storage devce (my external hard drive), control device (ipad) and an app on the ipad to control streamer/DAC.
Seperate devices are best. Some include streamer, DAC and maybe control app.
Im not nessaraly going to get much benefit from Hi Rez with a budget of $400.

A few questions:
Do most DACs connect directly to a hard drive with a usb plug?
The control app on ipad will make this work?
Newzoo, on the Boss2, I read about power supply. So, it doesnt come with one?
Can it get line power from my preamp?
Can I use any ps with correct voltage and current rating?
Thanks.


 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

DAC's connect to your preamp and computer or music server which stores the music on a hard drive and controls the music with a music player software like Roon, Audirvana, JRiver and the like.

You can also stream music with a dedicated streamer or from your computer.  Your Ipad should be able to control things with an app.

You should be able to hear some difference with Hi-Rez in a sub $400 DAC, but not with a real cheap sub $100 DAC.  Some software can upsample to Hi-Rez like HQP, Audirvana and many others.  I can hear an improvement when I upsample to a point, even with my Schiit Modius.

Power supplies do make a difference in many DAC's.  My son has the Chord Qutest and a power supply upgrade made a huge difference in clarity, resolution, detail and musicality.  You should be able to use aftermarket power supplies to replace wall-warts as long as the voltage is the same and amperage is similar.

[Tyson]

A few questions:
Do most DACs connect directly to a hard drive with a usb plug?
No, DACs connect to your music server or streaming device

The control app on ipad will make this work?
Yes

Can it get line power from my preamp?
The DAC will have it's own power supply

Can I use any ps with correct voltage and current rating?
Yes

Answers in-line above.

[JLM]

DAC technology has come a long way from decades ago.  But the technology isn't user friendly yet, setup can take months of scrambling around.  The Qobuz/BlueSound Node 2i is the gold standard for you.  Bite the bullet, pay the monthly subscription fee, its the best money you can get for nearly unlimited musical selections.  And the Node 2i's operating system is solid and the device flexible, well worth going $200 over budget.  Have a 40 year old audio friend who has never bought a CD or vinyl, everything has always been streamed and he's very satisfied.  He had a Node for years, was very family friendly, but now uses a receiver with built in streaming/DAC. 

[BikeFi10]

It has been overwhelming learning about devices and software for streaming music. Life was so simple with records and cds.  Yes the Bluesound seems like a good device to get into streaming music. Ill wait if nessary to save up a few more bucks. Do you know the difference between the Node2i and the previous model?

The Allo Boss2 looks like a good option too, but seems to be unavailable.
Also like the combo  DAC Schitt Mani and Allo Player 1.2? streamer, but again these Allo products unavailable. The company did not reply to my inquirey. Not so sure about their stability.

[mcgsxr]

Allo has been around for a while and their products are good (have owned Digione, currently have Boss etc).  Chip shortage and Pi shortage the issue for their solution it seems.

The Bluesound comparison here is worth considering as it explains the difference between the new Node (yes there was one called that years ago but this is the NEW one) vs the 2i - https://www.moon-audio.com/bluesound-node-comparison

[Tyson]

It has been overwhelming learning about devices and software for streaming music. Life was so simple with records and cds.  Yes the Bluesound seems like a good device to get into streaming music. Ill wait if nessary to save up a few more bucks. Do you know the difference between the Node2i and the previous model?

The Allo Boss2 looks like a good option too, but seems to be unavailable.
Also like the combo  DAC Schitt Mani and Allo Player 1.2? streamer, but again these Allo products unavailable. The company did not reply to my inquirey. Not so sure about their stability.

If you're interested, HAL (AC vendor) makes an outstanding streaming device called the MS6.  I've got one for sale for $300, but for a good home like yours, I'd let it go for $250.  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=181055.msg1902728  The MS6 is nice because HAL is an actual person and can provide personal help/support if needed.  I can help too

[newzooreview]

Newzoo, on the Boss2, I read about power supply. So, it doesnt come with one?
Thanks.

The Boss2 ordering page has a drop-down for choosing the power supply with differing costs for each of the 3 options. The least expensive power supply is $9. There is a large number of other power supplies that could be used, so it is technically possible to order a Boss2 and use a power supply that you have on hand.

I've ordered a number of things from Allo and they have worked flawlessly and arrived without shipping issues.

They look like they are having the same supply chain issues as a lot of audio companies, however.

The current version of the Bluesound Node does look like it would give you all the options you would want. It is $200 more than your budget, but it is more polished and flexible than the Boss2.

If the budget can stretch, a Bluesound Node and a subscription to Qobuz would be very enjoyable, I expect. You can plug a hard drive into the Node for any music files you have, and the Node has digital outputs so later on you could use a stand alone DAC to improve the sound. For the moment the standard RCA outputs would connect to your pre-amp (using the internal DAC on the Node).

[BikeFi10]

Yes the Boss2 and Player1.2 looked good, great measurement review, but if its not available its a mute point.
I have seen quite a few used Bluesounds FS.
Prices drop good after each newer model comes out. Seen Node for under $300, Node i for under $400, so its in my budget. Supposedly lastest Node better, but has features I dont need. Dont need amp, video interface, bluetooth extension plus its $600.
If I find a Node i for real good price, Ill up the anti a bit pick up the $100 Schitt Mani DAC as the Bluesounds DAC is so so as per some reviews.
Oh, found out wife is subscribed to Apple music and has a library built up, so I guess its been in our budget, sneaky girl! We ll probably have to upgrade to their HD platform or try another thats been recommended here.

[Rusty Jefferson]

...If the budget can stretch, a Bluesound Node and a subscription to Qobuz would be very enjoyable, I expect. You can plug a hard drive into the Node for any music files you have, and the Node has digital outputs so later on you could use a stand alone DAC to improve the sound. For the moment the standard RCA outputs would connect to your pre-amp (using the internal DAC on the Node).

Just noticed this thread and this and JLM's suggestions are good. The Node is a good streaming device and can get you started. When you have more money available, use the digital output of the Node to a dac with a good digital cable and you'll get a significant improvement over the analogue output of the Node. In the meantime, you'll have become familiar with the Node user interface and ripping music etc. If possible, the Node should be hard wired to your network.

[dflee]

If you don't have stored music you might want to try the IFI Zen Blue. It's bluetooth.
I have wifi and use my wife's Ipad with Quobuz for any album she wants to hear.
She listens to her audiobooks through it also.
The Zen Blue has analog out that goes to the pre. It sounds pretty darned good
and Quobuz is $130 a year for HiRez. That's a done deal for me and fairly cheap.

Don

[BikeFi10]

Yeap, Im on the lookout for used Node2i and maybe Schitt Mani DAC.
Sounds like Quobus is the way to go. My wife has Apple with purchased music in cloud. Shes ok switching to another platform, but will that be a problem playing that music?
I have an external hard drive I can deadicate to music files. Maybe I can copy cloud files to hard drive?

[newzooreview]

Files from Apple Music should be organized in a folder in the Music folder on the computer. Apple has not used copy restriction on purchased music files in more than a decade (starting in 2009), so it's likely that all of the files in the Music folder that were purchased from Apple Music can be copied anywhere you like and will play just fine.

On the other hand, if the files were downloaded under a monthly subscription to Apple Music, without purchasing the individual tracks or albums, the files might not be accessible. Although the Apple Music subscription allows downloading of tracks for playback when there's no internet, I believe that they are stored in a blob that is only useable if Apple sees that you have a an active subscription.

The latest BlueOS software for the Node appears to allow you login to Qobuz directly so that the Node is pulling the music from Qobuz and sending it directly to the DAC (internal or external). There is no loss in quality. Assuming a used Node2i will run the current version of BlueOS, this should work well.

However, the Node also allows you to run the Qobuz app on a phone or tablet and stream from the app to the Node by Bluetooth. This would definitely degrade the quality since there are several different streaming standards for Bluetooth and all of them degrade the signal. Likewise, Airplay2 for wireless streaming from an iPhone to the Node downsamples everything to CD quality, and it's not clear that CD quality over a wireless connection is as good as CD quality.

So, ideally you would go into BlueOS and login to Qobuz from within BlueOS so that the Node is streaming files directly from the internet. The original file resolution will then be preserved with no additional compression or transcoding added to facilitate Bluetooth or Airplay2 transmission.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Your other options are the ifi BT streamer and the Schiit Modius DAC or cheaper Modi DAC.  Or get an ifi Zen One Signature DAC with BT for $329.  It is made with quality caps and resistors.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-HvrFIbGhMpO/p_246ZEN1SGN/Zen-One-Signature.html?XVINQ=MI5&XVVER=RX3&awcr=77515735008685&awdv=c&awkw=ZEN%20One%20Signature&awmt=e&awnw=o&awat=&awug=108873&msclkid=21a432a67de0127d9bec504346603ac8

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/ifi-audio-zen-one-signature-dac-review.19770/

https://headfonics.com/ifi-audio-zen-one-signature-review/2/

[BikeFi10]

Update...I found a Bluesound Node 2i for $300 + ship Everything in box looks brand new.
Installed it, ethernet, and used wifes Apple music app. We were both disappointed. I said lets try Qobuz.
BIG improvement, but after playing about 10 songs we found some sounded very good others not so good.
We checked Hi Rez setting for each.
Is that how it is, hit or miss with music file quality?

Im on the lookout for a DAC. Schitt is out of chips so no DACs for along time.
From my research, Im favoring the Schitt Multibit if I can find used at another good price. Yes overbudget, but if it truely ups a warmer sound Ill bite the bullet.

Also, any suggestions on Node 2i to DAC cable?
Thanks

[Tyson]

If you want a warmer sound, the iFi DACs are a better option than Schiit DACS, IME.

[BikeFi10]

Which model ifi do you recommend? I do see alot of ifi products for sale new & used. Seemed like a bad sign to me.

The Schitt DAC Id like to get is the Multibit Modi. It has a chip verson of R2R technology and is suppose to be a warmer more analog sound.

Any comment on the different qualitys per song on Qobuz that I mentioned above?

Back to the Bluesound Node 2i. It has a very low volume level. I have volume max on the Node 2i, 75% on the ipad and 50% on my preamp to reach a modestly high listening level. Is this common? I couldnt open any settings for the Node 2i.
Thanks