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Industry Circles => Hollis Audio Labs => Topic started by: HAL on 30 Apr 2016, 02:26 pm

Title: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 Apr 2016, 02:26 pm
Today begins the next stage of the open baffle line arrays.

After the ideas learned from the Pulsing Quasar FPS drivers, it's time to scale it up.

The new speaker will be called The Megaliths. Here is a picture of the open baffle speaker wood at the builders facility. Going for a test fit of drivers today.

To start it will be 8 - BG Neo10 planar drivers per side, each with it's own amp module as before with the FPS drivers. The beamformer will be used again along with Math Audio Room EQ and the dspMusik to build the digital crossover and EQ needed to run them full range.

The baffle is the side wing concept also used on the FPS line array with the piano hinge for angle set and stability.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142164)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 30 Apr 2016, 08:04 pm
The baffle is the side wing concept also used on the FPS line array with the piano hinge for angle set and stability.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142164)
That is basically what one of my students did with his line array project many years back.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=14519)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 Apr 2016, 08:24 pm
Scott,

Cool!  Looks like the only difference is the side wing addition.

I am just glad that I can do this with the BG Neo10's.  Luckily I found 16 NOS units to get.

Now if PE would get the BG Neo3-PDR's would be all set.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 30 Apr 2016, 09:08 pm
You can't really see his wings, but he had wings on either side on long piano hinges.  We moved them around to find the best measurements.  He and I took it up to Danny to get the crossover really dialed in.  Honestly, it sounded pretty dang good, and very innovative for a 17 year old in 2007.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Avoosl on 30 Apr 2016, 09:09 pm
Rich,

     There are probably more people out there excited about this than you think.  They're probably hesitating,
holding their breath, and wondering, "Can he really pull this stunt to completion?"  - a 21st Century improvement
to the venerable Infinity IRS megalithic towers?  Well, I have confidence, Rich. 

     By the way, I like the Megalith name, but I think it merits a subtitle descriptive of its significant factors.  How about,

                           Megalith - the Digital Beamforming Distributed Power Line Array

The acronym DBDPLA is not pronounceable or memorable to earthlings, but the full-out spelling catches the eye.
What do you think?  The Digital Beamforming deserves accolades by itself, as well as the distribution of power
amplifiers.  Not to mention the active digital crossover with various corrective engines.  It is possibly too far beyond
what most audiophile are thinking about to fully appreciate.  But, just wait, and all the doubters will be shaking and
ratttling their bones at the curious megalithic object standing before their astonished senses.
till they hear it.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 Apr 2016, 09:23 pm
Avoosl,
I think it will be very interesting hearing these with the 6x12 servo subs in my room.  If the Pulsing Quasar's outcome is any indication, these should be very interesting indeed.

I like your explanation!  That will be the new Megalith description for hence forth!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 Apr 2016, 09:26 pm
Scott,
Very cool indeed!  I think the wing idea works very well! 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 05:50 pm
Well I will ask this of the general reading audience, is there any reason to continue this build thread? 

I see people viewing it, but only three people have commented.   :scratch:

If no interest into what happens, will just drop it and go back to building MS-3 Music Server PC's with the room and speaker correction software.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: SoCalWJS on 1 May 2016, 07:48 pm
Well I will ask this of the general reading audience, is there any reason to continue this build thread? 

I see people viewing it, but only three people have commented.   :scratch:

If no interest into what happens, will just drop it and go back to building MS-3 Music Server PC's with the room and speaker correction software.
Rich - Not enough info for me to comment on at this point. Always interested in new OB builds (I drool over some of Danny's stuff that will probably never see the light of day  :( ).

What are you pairing the Neo10's up with? (an assumption on my part that they won't be "full range")
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 08:00 pm
SoCalWJS,
To start with they will be full range with just the BG Neo10's.  That is why I am using Math Audio Room EQ. 

Even with the correction, the sensitivity of the Neo10 array should be close to 100dBSPL/1w/1m and -3dB at 20KHz.  All planar drivers have their own amp modules.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Tyson on 1 May 2016, 08:02 pm
Looks cool!  How are you going to deal with the beaming that happens to the 10's high frequencies?  Or is that a feature and not a bug in this design?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 08:07 pm
It will be part of the design.  Since there is a time domain beamformer working to make a vertical beam and keep the sidelobes down, we will see what happens.

I tested the idea on the smaller FPS planar drivers in the Pulsing Quasar design I did earlier and it sounded very good.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 08:15 pm
To give everyone an idea of what I am discussing, this is a variant of ideas used by Quad on the ESL63 speakers and used in SONAR acoustics.  They did concentric rings for the electrostatic speaker with miles of wire for the time delays.  With the dspMusik digital crossover, there is full time delay capability for each output channel.

Not only are pairs of the planars going to have different delays, but the servo sub array will be time aligned as well, so all four output channels will have different delays as part of the processing.  Very difficult to do with analog crossovers using all pass filters and coil delays. 

 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: TomS on 1 May 2016, 10:19 pm
To give everyone an idea of what I am discussing, this is a variant of ideas used by Quad on the ESL63 speakers and used in SONAR acoustics ...
Something you know just a wee bit about  8)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 10:30 pm
Well maybe just a bit.

It was in my Sonar Processing 101 class book about 30 years ago.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: nickd on 1 May 2016, 10:49 pm
Rich,
Watching  :D

I have built curved arrays before and use Neo 10's for mids (450-1500 hz) in my current reference system.

The drivers are amazing indeed. Most transparent midrange for the money I think. It's ashamed they are now extinct.

Just not sure how I feel about beaming. I remember hearing a Bongiorno design a few years before he passed. I sat between the speakers in a "sweet spot" and dang, best imaging ever. Moved my head to tell my buddy how awesome it was and the soundstage collapsed. The "beam"  was for one person only. Neat trick, but I don't think there was any commercial interest.

I have always preferred wide dispersion designs I suppose. just like the freedom to move around I suppose.
Nick
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 May 2016, 11:12 pm
Christie Digital now sells the BG planars to Parts Express and you can buy them again.  They also have the Neo3-PDR's as well.

I have some Neo3-PDR's on order when they get stock in a few months.

I have been using the Neo10 in the open baffle two way and do not have the horizontal beaming issues up to 7KHz.  Will see what happens when I extend the range to 20KHz. 

I am no woodworker, so a curved planar array was well outside my idea range.  I think it will be easier with the planar array and DSP processing instead.  So far that has worked well in the FPS planar arrays I built.  Put the vertical beam on the center axis and wide enough to move your head around.  They are much smaller than the Neo10's, so will see how it goes.  If to narrow, will add the Neo3-PDR's for the tweeter range.

The baffle is setup to mount both, just do not have them until PE gets stock.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 May 2016, 10:31 am
For power conditioning to run the 16 amp channels, asked Dave Elledge to build a buss.  He is calling this one the BlunderBUSS with 24 AC outlets.  Love that name!   If I add the tweeter array will need 20 AC sockets for the amps.  The other 4 are for the dspMusik and the HX800 servo amps. 

The MS-3 Music Server is on it's own DigiBUSS, and will use my original UberBUSS to drive DigiBUSS as Dave suggests once the BlunderBUSS arrives. 

Cut 16 new Belden 1309A speaker cables for the Neo10 drivers and started prepping them for connectors.  Waiting on the 0.187" 16-14 Fast-On's to arrive to crimp on the cables for the Neo10's.

All the 16 modified LM3875 Gainclone amps are built with balanced inputs and DC coupled signal path.  DC offset is less than 10mV DC for every module driven by the dspMusik that is also DC coupled.  The amps do not have either a Zobel or Theil network on the output, as they are totally stable into the nearly resistive load of the BG drivers as tested.  The speaker cables themselves are the only inductance/resistance needed for stability.

Hopefully will be picking up the finished baffles this Saturday and start building the speakers with the BG Neo10's and wiring them up for testing.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 2 May 2016, 10:58 am
Hi,
up to now, I did not comment your topic,
however, I did read every one of your post.
I find it interesting and I like the pictures that
makes that topic of yours even more interesting.
Thanks for sharing your project.
If I did not asked any questions,
it's because it's pretty self explanatory.  :thumb:
Thanks again for sharing.

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 May 2016, 11:07 am
Guy 13,
Thanks for the feedback!  Glad you found it interesting and followed the process easily. 

I am not a great writer, so good to hear it is clearly written.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Atlplasma on 2 May 2016, 02:04 pm
HAL. This may seem like an odd question. But did you take an inspiration from the Siegfried Linkwitz's LX strategy? I built the LXmini a few months back and have really liked the sound this design delivers. It is very non-fatiguing. At the same time, I am a little dissatisfied by the 192/24 maximum resolution of the miniDSP 4x10. Was that a consideration for you in choosing the dspMusik 2/8? Thanks for sharing your build.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 May 2016, 03:30 pm
The only thing I am aware of is the transform for the servo subs.  More inspiration came from Danny's planar arrays I heard last year.  Wow is the best description.

The dspMusik uses better DACs than the other DSP XO's I have tried.  I like minimum phase filter DACs and this has them.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 May 2016, 05:49 pm
The nice thing about the dspMusik system is it's ability to develop generic speaker crossovers.  If the specifications for the digital crossover has been published, it can be developed on the dspMusik 6x8. 

The sound quality developed over a 4 year period of trials with improvements in the linear power supply regulation on the motherboards.  Each DAC has it's own set of regulators on the analog output stage for best sound quality.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 2 May 2016, 07:05 pm
Rich,

I'm lurking in the background reading with interest. Don't have enough experience or knowledge to participate.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 May 2016, 07:16 pm
mresseguie and everyone,
Glad to see folks are watching.

Will keep posting the steps since there seems to be interest on progress.   Hope to make some serious progress this Saturday when the baffles are supposed to be ready to pickup.   :o
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: PDR on 2 May 2016, 07:25 pm
Lurking here as well, very interesting..... :o
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 May 2016, 12:03 am
First version of the Megaliths digital crossover for the dspMusik is completed.  This is based on both the Pulsing Quasar beamformer and the BG Neo3-PDR/Neo10 open baffle designs completed earlier.  These both mated to the 6x12" H-Frame servo sub arrays, so that is known.  The gain set between the servo subs and the Neo10 arrays will need to be done from measurements. 

To measure the array, the mic needs to be at least the height of the array away from the planars.  The center listening axis is between planars 4 & 5, so that is the measurement axis.  The low frequency response of the measurement is determined by the free space measurement time before the first room reflection.  F = 1/t, where t is the free space time, and F is the lowest frequency of the measurement that is accurate.  This is the time gated frequency response measurement concept.

More once I have the baffle and get the Neo10's installed and wired to the amps hopefully this weekend.
 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 May 2016, 01:26 am
As Avoosl has eluded to, the first inspiration for these speakers were when I heard the original Infinity IRS Reference III's in 1979 at an audio show in Virginia.  Those speakers to this day still set a reference standard that I have not heard matched. 

I figure if I am going to build a line array, it should be in the same range as those.  They have more power in the bass range, but these may have more finesse.  Only time will tell.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 May 2016, 10:23 am
Have the Raspberry Pi3 running the latest Raspbian Linux OS.  The image contains Wolframs Mathmatica for computations.  Very powerful and flexible language in the vain of Mathcad and Matlab.  I used Mathcad for many years and this is very similar.

Since computations are needed to calculate the time delays needed for the array element drive, will attempt to make a small application to do this part of the design.  Costs less to do this on the RPi3 than getting the latest Mathcad for my PC.  Will see what happens.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Letitroll98 on 4 May 2016, 11:44 am
Lurking here as well, very interesting..... :o

Also watching your progress Rich.  Although I must admit the last couple of posts sound like, "you connect the rebostaters to the harbonators which mitigates the carboniferous interactions of the mu dependants."  Any chance you could explain it like you were talking to a ten year old?  Maybe a smart ten year old that just doesn't know anything.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 May 2016, 11:53 am
Letitroll98,
Will try harder to keep the explanations more basic.  The RPi3 thing is really just a fun use for the little computer.

Lets try this description and see if it is clear on the amp front for the speakers.

Normally to drive a segmented line array, the drivers have to be connected as series/parallel combinations to make an impedance that stock amplifiers can drive. When two drivers are connected in series, the sensitivity of the pair is the same as one driver with increased power handling capability. When two drivers are connected in parallel, the sensitivity goes up by 6dB for the pair. This is at the expense of the impedance now being 1/2 the original value.

If I were to take 8 - BG Neo10 planars and put them all in parallel, the sensitivity would go up by 18dB if they are all well matched drivers. In real life, it will be less than that due to differences. The problem is the new impedance for the amp to drive is 1.33 Ohms. Not something most amplifiers like to see as a load.

Now if each BG Neo10 that has a 6 Ohm impedance has it's own amplifier, then the sensitivity increase is the theoretical 18dB increase at the expense of 8 amps. With today's solid state Class AB amps, that is not a great expense and can have great sound quality. The amps only have to be capable of driving one driver to full potential, not the entire array. Instead of one 600w rms amp capable of 1.33 Ohm load drive, you have 8 - 75watt rms amps driving 6 ohm loads. That is the approach I am using.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 4 May 2016, 02:14 pm
I'm right there with you Leti.  This video was made of Rich explaining server/dac interactions. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

 :wink:

Actually, the mad scientist is pretty good at getting it down to my level.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 May 2016, 04:42 pm
LOL!   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 May 2016, 05:36 pm
Well at least this build is a bit simpler than this one must have been  :o

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142421)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 5 May 2016, 05:53 pm
Looks like the baffles will now be ready until some time next week.

Baffles have been in work over 1 year.  I hate waiting!!!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 8 May 2016, 11:38 am
Good news, the baffles will be ready Wednesday and will pick them up.  Once home will install the 16 - BG Neo10 drivers.

Cables, 16 amps and dspMusik ready for trials.  The HAL MS-3 has MathAudio Room EQ software setup in Foobar2000 for measurements. Have a few more XLR balanced cables on the way to complete the setup.

This should be very interesting!  :D
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 May 2016, 01:06 pm
Trying out the Raspberry Pi 3 with the latest Raspbian OS, Wolfram Mathmatica is installed. 

Will be writing a notebook to calculate the time delays for an arbitrary number of drivers in a line array to calculate the data needed to use the dspMusik digital crossover at any listening position.  You just need the number of Neo10 drivers and the listening distance in feet.  The output will be the time delays needed for each channel of the digital crossover.  This is the data to put into the time delay blocks for Audio Weaver to run the speakers.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 May 2016, 06:45 pm
Have most of the Mathmatica document done and getting the syntax correct since it is a bit different than Mathcad.

Decided to build insulated binding post setups for the amp modules.  Luckily PE was having a closeout on the large binding post and the simpler post connectors with the insulated plate, so was able to build all 38 binding post pairs. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142751)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: gab on 10 May 2016, 10:32 pm
Have most of the Mathmatica document done and getting the syntax correct since it is a bit different than Mathcad.

Decided to build insulated binding post setups for the amp modules.  Luckily PE was having a closeout on the large binding post and the simpler post connectors with the insulated plate, so was able to build all 38 binding post pairs. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142751)

HAL - whats the PE part numbers on those if you have it handy? Thanks

gab
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 May 2016, 11:31 pm
Here they are:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142755)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 May 2016, 11:52 am
Today is the next status meeting on The Megaliths baffle build.  Will be talking to the wood craftsman about status and see if I can pick them up.  Will have an SUV just in case they are completed. 

Then install the BG Neo10 drivers and wire them up to the amp modules.  Everything else is ready!

The 18 month project is getting close to operation!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 May 2016, 07:54 pm
Meet The Megaliths baffles in my favorite color scheme.  Built by a local Amish wood craftsman.

Next up installing the BG Neo10 drivers and wiring them to the amp modules.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142815)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142816)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142817)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 May 2016, 09:20 pm
Test fit of the 8 - BG Neo10 drivers in The Megaliths baffle.  Just have to modify the gasket to fit on the rear of the drivers to mount on the baffles.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142818)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: PDR on 11 May 2016, 10:46 pm
Those look amazing.......can hardly wait for your critique.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 May 2016, 11:19 am
PDR,
Thanks.  Once I get them fully built, will do another write-up.

Today's task is making screw hole positions for the Neo10's and drilling 64 pilot holes for the square drive #4 wood screws.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 13 May 2016, 09:31 am
To do a better job of drilling pilot holes decided to get a drill guide.  Will still use the hand drill, but at least it will be vertical.

Should be here early nest week to start the 64 mounting holes for the BG Neo10's.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142900)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 13 May 2016, 09:51 pm
Went to Harbor Freight and picked up this drill guide for the 240 pilot holes for mounting the BG planars.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142938)


Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 May 2016, 12:24 pm
Will try a Big Gator Tools Mini V-Drilling guide with the angled drill guide to drill the 240 pilot holes for the BG planars in the baffles. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=142968)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: mresseguie on 14 May 2016, 03:21 pm
I thought of an observation/question for you:

The front baffles look to be fairly lightweight and not capable of supporting much weight. Will they securely hold all the drivers, and will they not tend to flex (or vibrate) during play? [I have no idea how heavy the PDR drivers are.]

Thanks,

Michael

P.S. The speakers are beginning to look pretty interesting.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 May 2016, 03:31 pm
Michael,
The weight of the drivers total is 28.6lbs.  Since there are 16 screws for the Neo10's and 44 screws for the Neo3-PDR's per side, the hope is that the steel planar housings will add the stiffness needed for the baffles to be rigid. 

I also plan to use a 10' piece of 0.5" copper pipe bent into a angle to attach to the frame to act like a foot and stiffener.  This should add to the stability of the baffle and add stiffening to the outside edge that does not have the wing and hinge for stiffening. 

I like the look.  Glad you find it interesting.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 15 May 2016, 11:36 am
Using Wolfram's Mathmatica on the Raspberry Pi 3, have the notebook working that calculates the time delays required for the dspMusik digital crossover for the BG Neo10 planar drivers. Will do another section in the code for the BG Neo3-PDR's.

The normal home PC version of Mathmatica is $249. The Raspberry Pi 3 is $35, SMPS is $8, The Raspian OS is free for download and $13 get you a 64GB MicroSDXC boot drive. Total cost is $56. That is a very good reason to me to get one.

Building the last 18 moded ChipAmp modules and 9 power supply PC boards as the toroidal power transformers should all be here Monday. Then start drilling holes in heatsinks to mount the amp modules to test them. Will be using the new drilling guide for these to get nice vertical holes!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 May 2016, 07:17 pm
The final batch of Avel toroidal power transformers arrived.  Time to build 12 more AC power supplies.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143111)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: mlundy57 on 17 May 2016, 01:47 am
Rich,

I'm enjoying following your journey vicariously.

Mike
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 May 2016, 02:34 am
Mike,
Glad you are enjoying the journey!  This is the fun part, before the fun part of listening to them.    :D
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 May 2016, 12:17 pm
The drilling guides for the pilot holes all arrive Thursday.

Thinking about using a set of L brackets bolted to the drilling guide to have the 0.370" offset needed for drilling the Neo10 pilot holes.  This maybe simpler than the aluminum plate template.  Will have to see when it all arrives what will work.  Just need to get batteries for my calipers to do the measurements.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 May 2016, 01:18 pm
Took this out of the model building equipment.  Dremel Tool drill press.  This should work very well with the V-Mini drilling guide.

Everything should be here today and will see if I can start the Neo10 installs.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143181)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 May 2016, 07:27 pm
The mini drilling guide arrived today.  Got to get my digital calipers back and should be ready for some pilot hole drilling with the drill press.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143192)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143194)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 May 2016, 12:13 pm
Digital calipers located.  Also the V mini drilling guide and nail set.

Calipers need a new battery and then off to the measurements!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143223)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 20 May 2016, 01:13 am
New 357 battery installed and the calipers are working again! 

Now to set the drivers in the correct positions to start the measurement and marking process.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 20 May 2016, 09:10 pm
With the 8 - Neo10's in place, found the offset distance from top and bottom to center the planars in the slot.  Set and locked the calipers for that offset to use as a check during placement of the first driver for marking the holes. 

The 1/2" thick aluminum plates arrived to make the drilling template for the BG Neo10's and Neo3-PDR's.  If someone local can do the cutting, drilling and alignment marks for the drivers, will use those to do the pilot holes.  Check things 25 times before drilling the first hole.  Going to do it correctly the first time and try not to have to fill any holes and redrill with this finish.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143277)
 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 22 May 2016, 02:06 am
Drilling method ideas complete.  Will start drilling tomorrow and mount the Neo10 drivers.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143346)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 22 May 2016, 08:03 pm
BG Neo10 install has started. Using the Neo10 as it's own template, mark the center of each screw hole with a nail set. Remove the driver and drill the hole with the V-Drill guide. Install the Neo10 gasket and then wrap in Glad Wrap. Use the #4 square drive screws for mounting. Leave the Glad Wrap until all the drivers are installed for protection.

First two drivers installed and 6 more to go for the first side.  This is going to take awhile!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143404)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 23 May 2016, 01:00 am
Second half of the Neo10 array installed.

Will do the second half install tomorrow and possibly start the second baffle.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143441)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 24 May 2016, 02:18 am
First Megaliths baffle with 8 - BG Neo10 planars installed. 

Will install the drivers in the second baffle tomorrow, then align the planars in each baffle.  After that attach the speaker cables to the drivers and amps and fire them up.

Getting closer!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143516)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 24 May 2016, 03:49 am
Yep. I know that it's a tiny thing, but I notice that the baffles aren't recessed.  I wonder if running a strip of thin wool felt top to bottom and to the edge would make any difference. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 24 May 2016, 10:31 am
Scott,
I am using the foam gasket that comes with the Neo10.  I cut out the section where the connectors are to sit flat against the baffle.

I tried felt on the wing of the baffles for the two way planar and it worked well.  Will probably be using it on these as well. Would go on the short baffle side next to the Neo10 and possibly the side that connects to the wing.  Since it will cover the wood, will probably go with colored felt to give it some interest.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 28 May 2016, 02:01 am
The first baffle is complete!  Now to start the second baffle and make the stabilizing legs.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143757)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: PDR on 28 May 2016, 04:44 am
NICE!

Good thing you had that big sub array standing around to lean them up against.... :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 May 2016, 12:10 am
Second Megalith baffle getting ready for pilot hole drilling and Neo10 installation. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143854)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 May 2016, 06:37 pm
Four Neo10's installed.  Last four to go.  Then wire up the drivers for testing.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 May 2016, 08:19 pm
Six Neo10's installed and seventh started.   JUST...NEED...TWO...MORE...INSTALLED!   :o

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143917)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 30 May 2016, 09:28 pm
The Megaliths baffles with the BG Neo10's planars are completed.

Next to wire them up with the speaker cables to the amp modules to start measurements.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=143922)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 31 May 2016, 07:18 pm
Triode Wire Labs is custom building the HAL 1 AC power cables for the Megaliths speaker amplifier system. 

First cable is here and sounds great with the balanced input amp modules.  TWL will be building 8 more for the first part of the setup to go with the PI Audio Group BlunderBUSS AC power conditioner.  A total of 21 AC cables will be needed once the BG Neo3-PDR array is added to the Megaliths baffles.  There will be 12 duplex outlets on the BlunderBUSS for amps, and dspMusik digital crossover's linear regulated power supplies.

The UberBUSS and DigiBUSS will be powering the HAL MS-3 Music Server system with the SSD's driving the USB input on the dspMusik at the other side of the listening room.


Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 Jun 2016, 12:52 pm
Today is some copper pipe bending to build the stabilizers. 

Will be adding mass to the pipe to act as the counterweight so the speakers can stand vertically at 90 degrees.



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 Jun 2016, 07:24 pm
The copper pipe with the ends hammered closed.  Marked for the bends.

Once bent, add led shot for counterweight and then close the other end to trap the shot. 

Then to drill the holes at 2" on center to attach to the baffles for stability.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144000)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 Jun 2016, 08:43 pm
Angles bent.  Not pretty but ready for lead shot filling.  Then hammer the other end shut and drill mounting holes.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144001)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Jun 2016, 08:15 pm
Pipe ends bent at 90 degrees for attaching at the base of the baffle.

Next is to cut the pipe to length.  Fill with lead shot to add counterweight and flatten the other end.  Then drill the four mounting holes and attach to the baffle.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144172)
 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 3 Jun 2016, 09:58 pm
Well, Rich, if there was any doubt about your sanity, all doubts have been removed!   :thumb:  The Mad Scientist is indeed at work.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 Jun 2016, 04:52 am
There was doubt?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!   :D
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 Jun 2016, 02:01 pm
Went to Lowes and purchased an adjustable pipe cutter. Marked the stabilizer length for keeping the baffle vertical and cut off the excess pipe. Very easy to do after seeing a plumber do it awhile back with that style tool. The pipes, shot and tools cost about $85, so less than $43/stabilizer. Could have used a 1"x2"x8' piece of oak, but I like this look better.

Next add the lead shot to the pipe, seal and flatten the other end for mounting hole drilling.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 6 Jun 2016, 01:17 am
Hauled the bottle of lead shot down to the Lab to fill the copper pipes for counterweight.

Then will be time to hammer the end shut, bend the angle and drill the mounting holes.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 6 Jun 2016, 09:33 pm
The baffle stabilizer and counterweight with the lead shot added and other end closed.

Next is drilling the mounting holes and connecting them to the baffles.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144373)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 6 Jun 2016, 10:59 pm
Just to make sure I state this, there will be no passive crossover design used for these speakers. 

There is no way to select passive components to the tolerances needed and the time delays would require miles of wire in the delay circuits. 

People can keep chasing things like Duelund caps and Jantzen foil inductors if they like, I am going the 21st century route with the dspMusik.  Best sounding crossover I ever heard and easily beats passive designs with it's capabilities for things like 6 pole filter topologies and time delays. 

Have fun with the comments, just play nice.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Jun 2016, 02:11 am
Baffles completed and standing.

Next to wire up the Neo10 drivers and see how they measure.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144401)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144402)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 8 Jun 2016, 10:52 am
Speaker cables labeled and started connecting them to the Neo10's.

Next connect to the amps and try some measurements to see how to adjust the crossover for sub to planar level matching.  Then try Room EQ for overall correction.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 8 Jun 2016, 08:48 pm
Installed 200' of 14awg speaker cable today on the planars. 

Now time to check resistances and then wire the drivers to the amp modules.  Carefully check to not let out any magic smoke.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144506)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144507)
 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Jun 2016, 02:16 am
Wiring to the amp modules is ongoing.  Will complete wiring to the amps tomorrow.

Baffles and servo subs setup for trials.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144543)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144544)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Jun 2016, 07:16 pm
All 16 amp modules are now wired to the Neo10 drivers. 

Wiring layout designed to catch those pesky mp3 listeners and hold them down while listening to HiRez music.  :D

Next is to connect the balanced XLR cables from the dspMusik to amp modules and start the testing.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144591)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 9 Jun 2016, 09:24 pm
I've got to get my wife to see this pic of your floor.  Maybe she won't think my stuff is so bad.... well, I can always hope.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: aldcoll on 9 Jun 2016, 10:09 pm
Really Hall how many pizza's did you buy to get to this stage :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Avoosl on 9 Jun 2016, 11:14 pm
     If you guys only knew!  He actually spiffed it up a bit and cleared some space for a trial
tomorrow.  It's all a work in progress.  WAF=0, but who cares?  Genius at work.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 10 Jun 2016, 12:41 am
Captain's mess...
Hopefully, captain HAL is in control,
despite the (Temporarely) mess....  :D :thumb:

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: stu on 10 Jun 2016, 01:45 am
What mess? Looks like a normal man cave to me. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 02:24 am
What is this talk of temporary mess.  This is clean.

It is a Lab/Man Cave.  No WAF allowed.  Listen and drink beer.  The wife has upstairs.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 03:29 am
The final XLR balanced connections from dspMusik to amp modules are complete.

Tomorrow is power up, measurements and Room EQ.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 10 Jun 2016, 03:55 am
Why tomorrow ?  :(
Why not right now ?  :(
We are impatient...
O.K. get a good night sleep
and tomorrow we will be waiting for the results of your test.
Thaks a lot for that interesting topic.  :thumb:

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 12:12 pm
A basic problem is that my new power conditioning setup with enough AC outlets and AC cables to power up the system have not arrived yet.  I have 4 AC sockets that are within 2 meters of the 9 IEC sockets for the amps and dspMusik that run the system. 

Probably will go get some AC extension cords to run everything until they get here.  Will be awhile until the units arrive.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 10 Jun 2016, 01:04 pm
More waiting...  :(
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 01:20 pm
Well I did start having ideas about this in 1979.  Took the last 6 years to get to this point.  Pretty close now.  :D

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 05:04 pm
Nothing is thwarting todays startup of the speakers.

Trip to Lowes.  100' power cable on sale and all the Hubble connectors to build 8 - 10' extension cords.

The audio mad scientist is not letting the lack of AC power stop this!  :o

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144639)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: TomS on 10 Jun 2016, 05:49 pm
"Scotty, we need more power"
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jun 2016, 07:07 pm
 :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jun 2016, 02:56 am
Igor, throw the switch, NO not that switch, the other one!

BUZZ, HUMMMM, WHIRRR, ZAAAPPPPP...  They're alive, THEY'RE ALIVE!   MUAHA MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

The Megaliths live!  Now on to the measurements.

Had my friends Avoosl and Charlie over for beer brats, beer and help with the wiring and connection of the speaker.  Lots more to do, but stage one is complete with a vengeance!   :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144678)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jun 2016, 04:11 am
First set of REW measurements showed a few problems so corrected them.  Response sounded better.

Then ran a first cut at MathAudio Room EQ.  It got a lot better!   :o

Now for some other tweaks.  Still think I need some tweeters, but will be fine until someone can get them!

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: richidoo on 11 Jun 2016, 04:19 am
Good, better, best! You're getting there! Won't be long now.

Awesome job Rich!    :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 11 Jun 2016, 07:30 am
Look like you did not feed your friend(s) too much beer,
according to the picture, they are still standing up.  :lol:
Always better to do things with help of others,
prefeerably friend(s) and someone that knows a little about what youre doing.  :thumb:
Soooo, the next post will show the final result ????

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jun 2016, 09:50 am
Guy13,
The next post will be the state of the speakers with just the BG Neo10 planars.  Will post some REW plots for this state of the speakers.

From listening last night with Room EQ, probably think that a line array of planar tweeters is needed, even though the corrected line of Neo10's is very good.  Still a lot of things to try.  This will be an ongoing project for sometime. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: steve in jersey on 11 Jun 2016, 01:48 pm
He,he,he....  I don't know how many of you remember Bugs Bunny , but I had a "Bugs moment" this morning

Bugs was known for saying "What a maroon" (rather than "moron"). That's what I said to myself when , I realized that this thread was not from the HAL  (Herbies Audio Lab) I'm familiar with , but Hollis Audio. Here I am thinking "Interesting... Herbies has branched into speaker builds".

I suppose I could've just kept this to myself, but where's the fun in that ? So yes, I was letting my "maroon" self show through ( at least it was slightly better than the average "senior moments" I seem to have occasionally )
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jun 2016, 02:41 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 13 Jun 2016, 11:34 am
Well did a farfield measurement at the listening chair last night of the 6x12 H-Frame servo subs and looks like anywhere from 150Hz to 300Hz look good to crossover to the Neo10's in the open baffle.  Today will measure the Neo10's and see a good crossover point that does not stress the drivers. 

If it is possible to use an 8 pole Linkwitz-Reilly crossover at 150-200Hz for both of the driver arrays, that will be a possibility.  If either has roll-off, then using different filters for both sides can still get the overall L-R alignment for flat response through the crossover frequency range.  This also helps with LF power handling for the Neo10's. 

There are four different time delays with the number of channels I have available.  Three for the Neo10 array and one for the sub to open baffle time alignment.  Since each time delay step equates to 0.071" of distance offset, pretty easy to dial in the delays needed. 

And all of this with no linear phase filters in use for the digital crossover or DAC's. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 13 Jun 2016, 07:29 pm
Next batch of four TWL HAL-1 AC power cables arrived.  Second box of four comes tomorrow. 

The wonders of USPS.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 Jun 2016, 10:37 am
My friend Charlie just dubbed my listening room floor the largest breadboard in the world.  Now that is a fun idea!  :D

Second set of TWL HAL AC cables arrive today to run the amps.  More measurements with the planars and choose a new digital crossover topology to try.

Will be very interesting listening to the Steinway Grand Piano HiRez recording on The Megaliths to see what sense of instrument scale it can create.

Not many times in my life will I get to say I am listening to a classical recording I made with a stereo system I made in the listening room I designed.  I think that might just be a bucket list item checked off! 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 15 Jun 2016, 01:43 am
Made measurements and did some crossover changes.  Measurements were better, so tomorrow will make a few more adjustments before another listening session.

Hopefully the last set of TWL HAL AC cables make it tomorrow.  Seems USPS misplaced them and possibly going to the wrong place.  Will see what happens.   :(
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 15 Jun 2016, 02:47 am
Made measurements and did some crossover changes.  Measurements were better, so tomorrow will make a few more adjustments before another listening session.

Hopefully the last set of TWL HAL AC cables make it tomorrow.  Seems USPS misplaced them and possibly going to the wrong place.  Will see what happens.   :(

USPS... Such a big organization,
probably everything is computerized
and they keep loosing stuff day afte rday...  :nono: :duh:
Please don't forget to post pictures when everything is set up
and cleaned.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 15 Jun 2016, 03:15 am
There will be no cleaning!  :nono:

It is a lab.  I will just call it the worlds largest breadboard instead of a floor!  :thumb:

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 01:22 am
And now for a proper video introduction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t99WjRi7T4
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: jseipp on 16 Jun 2016, 01:47 am
Well done!!!!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: jseipp on 16 Jun 2016, 01:47 am
Wish I were there....
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 01:50 am
Thanks!

Been a long time in work!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Peter J on 16 Jun 2016, 01:54 am
They're sooooo Megalithic.


Gotta love your lab, too, mad scientist!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 09:59 am
Peter J,
Thanks!  Built that room for this very reason 22 years ago.  Now it is fully serving it's purpose!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 12:43 pm
Just ran MathAudio Room EQ on the latest version crossover on The Megaliths :o .   This is a whole different league from any box loudspeaker and most electrostats and planars I have heard.  The digital crossover driving the amps directly to each driver is as clean as any setup I have heard and when the servo subs kick in it is amazingly extended and tight. 

Now if I only had some planar tweeters!


Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 16 Jun 2016, 01:30 pm
Just ran MathAudio Room EQ on the latest version crossover on The Megaliths :o .   This is a whole different league from any box loudspeaker and most electrostats and planars I have heard.  The digital crossover driving the amps directly to each driver is as clean as any setup I have heard and when the servo subs kick in it is amazingly extended and tight. 

Now if I only had some planar tweeters!

YES ! Where are they, those planar tweeters ? ? ? ?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 02:59 pm
Last I heard somewhere in July from PE.

No updates since April on the website.   :(
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Jun 2016, 06:38 pm
The next batch of TWL HAL AC power cords arrived.

Hooked up to the PIAG UberBUSS and MicroBUSS and time for some listening. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 20 Jun 2016, 10:56 am
See folks discussing Gainclone slew rate limiting and servo sub opposing are arrangement problems.  Here is some background.

The largest voltage swing the amps can do with their power supplies is 50Vp-p.  Since the DSP has a 96KHz bandwidth, the maximum slew rate is 4.8V/uS.  The LM3875 chip rating range is 5-11V/uS with a 200KHz bandwidth.  No slew rate limiting from the basic calculations, and sounds excellent on all music.

The opposing servo subs voice coil distance offset is about 6".  At 150Hz, that is 23.9 deg of phase difference for the crossover point.  I hear no problems and electronically time align the servo subs to the main open baffles.  Physical time alignment of the two cabinets is not needed.

I will also stick with minimum phase digital systems since that is also how all transducers phase response are in the real world. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 23 Jun 2016, 06:33 pm
Spotted some BG planar in stock at PE the end of July.  Latest directly from PE is no update on the BG Neo3-PDRs. 

This is driving me bonkers!  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 23 Jun 2016, 08:14 pm
Just called PE directly.

Have been given a 17 August delivery date for the BG Neo3-PDR drivers.  We shall see, as they were originally supposed to be in July!  Ordered them in April. 

Ugh!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Jun 2016, 11:22 pm
Got The Megaliths running with new crossover points and with Room EQ running these are great speakers.  I am very happy with the results with just the 2/3 of the speaker running with correction. 

I can easily live with these until August when the tweeters are supposed to arrive to install.  Then the wait will continue for the next version of the dspMusik with 16 channels of output. 

And some people will remind me that it only took 13 months to build The Empire State Building in NYC in 1939.   :D 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Jul 2016, 11:48 am
This week makes 3 months since ordering the BG Neo3-PDR tweeters from PE.  According to their latest info from Christie Digital, will be a total of 4.25 months until they are shipped to me. 

That will be a total of 20 months since Christie Digital bought BG and put out the last product to PE to ship.

I guess patience is a virtue.    :roll:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: mlundy57 on 3 Jul 2016, 06:29 pm
Patience may be but holding your breath in this situation wouldn't   :(

Mike
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 3 Jul 2016, 06:59 pm
Even though Danny's planar tweeters are still in development, they could still be your quickest option.  Is it fair to say that Christie Digital is only 50:50 to actually deliver to Parts Express?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Jul 2016, 09:47 pm
Scott,
I have no idea what PE has actually gotten from Christie.  I just know about the Neo3-PRD's for the order I placed, who knows about the rest.

I am waiting to hear from Danny about his tweeter design as well.

There is also a possibility of dipole ribbon tweeter elements as well, so will see what happens. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 3 Jul 2016, 10:04 pm
Have you tried rounding up odd pairs from here and there?  I know Ive got a pair of Neo 3's stashed away... somewhere. I think they are the version that goes in the N2 speaker.  If you need them, I'll go dig them out.  If you are really dead in the water, I can pull another pair from a pair of N2's that are also sitting in storage for the summer.   
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Jul 2016, 10:12 pm
Scott,
Yes, I looked, but when you need 44 - BG Neo3-PDR's it is to difficult for the line arrays.

I have four here between the N2X and open baffle setup I have, but still 40 to go. 

No rush, the speakers really do sound very good just EQ'd flat.  It's like a very flat response single driver system with bass response.  Just really big!  :D

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 3 Jul 2016, 10:22 pm
Scott,
Yes, I looked, but when you need 44 - BG Neo3-PDR's it is to difficult for the line arrays.

I have four here between the N2X and open baffle setup I have, but still 40 to go. 

No rush, the speakers really do sound very good just EQ'd flat.  It's like a very flat response single driver system with bass response.  Just really big!  :D
Well, s@*t.  Your 4 and my 4 still doesn't get you that close.  Oh well.  When you finally do get this thing up and running, I may have to find a cheap flight to the east coast. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Jul 2016, 11:09 pm
Yes, same thing I said!  :D

Sounds like a plan to me.  Bring Danny along if you can.  I will get the grill going and make bratwurst and burgers. 

You and I can have the beer! Will have his favorite Dr Pepper with real sugar as I can get it now! :)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jul 2016, 02:37 am
Just spent the weekend working CAF2016.  Was in the GT Audioworks room with Greg Takesh.  Talked about ribbon tweeter modules for The Megaliths and he is going to give me pricing on 8 - 20" ribbon dipoles for the system.  These would be a replacement for the BG Neo3-PDR's since I have no idea if the 17 August date is a good one.  Each ribbon will have Superior Electric 5-way binding posts to connect the ribbons to the speaker cables.  Each pair of tweeter modules will be wired to amp modules for time delay beamforming use. 

After hearing the new GTA3-R planar/ribbon panels with the OB servo subs at the show for 3 days, they really do sound very good indeed! 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 11 Jul 2016, 03:25 am
Rich, not that I don't agree that sourcing ribbon tweeters from Greg is probably a better idea, but have you tried reaching out to whoever the person/company based in Spain is on ebay that has various combinations of neo3 and neo10 drivers for sale?  Looking across all of their auctions, they might be one of the few places left that could put together enough tweeters in one place to complete your project without having to wait and or beg from PE/Christie.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jul 2016, 10:02 am
Jonathan,
I have seen them, but at that price it would be $6358 for the tweeters from them.  PE is less than 1/2, so the price difference is to high to consider.

I already know the ballpark price from Greg and it is much less.  Since there are only 4 drivers per side, make is much easier to install and integrate as well.  Only an extra 2 amps per side to drive the pairs of OB ribbons and 4 dspMusik channels for a total of 12 channels.

It is really the 176 mounting holes for the Neo3-PDR's that is the bad part for me.  Much less for the GT's.

We shall see what happens.  I am just really getting tired of waiting for Christie Digital to get PE the tweeters.  Glad I found the NOS Neo10's! 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: JohnR on 11 Jul 2016, 10:04 am
FWIW I reckon the electrostatic tweeter idea sounds pretty good (so to speak).
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jul 2016, 10:08 am
It would work, but the power handling of the GT Audioworks ribbons is much higher than the electrostatics I have seen.  They are copper backed kapton.  They sound excellent and you can't kill them and we tried at CAF2016. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: JohnR on 11 Jul 2016, 10:13 am
Sorry Rich, I think I missed a step somewhere... I should have said that a tall tweeter (stacked, with shading etc) with good dispersion sounds like a real win  :thumb: I just assumed it was electrostatic, my bad.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jul 2016, 10:28 am
No problem. 

These have a lot of similarities to the Maggy true ribbon, but segmented for my ideas.  Also almost purely resistive so much easier to direct drive and no transformers. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Jul 2016, 06:54 pm
Hopefully work on the 8-20" ribbon tweeters begins next week.  Will post progress as I get it.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 17 Jul 2016, 09:55 pm
Ribbons from GTAW?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Jul 2016, 10:02 pm
Yes.  Greg is building them.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 21 Jul 2016, 07:28 pm
The work on the 8 - 20" ribbons has started as of today.

About 3 weeks total for metal work completion and construction for the units.

If things go well, these will be a compression fit between the two 1"x2"x 87" slot sides. 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 25 Jul 2016, 12:51 pm
The TWL HAL power cords for the ribbon tweeter amps arrive today.   That should be the final batch needed to power up this system.   

The materials are on order for the ribbon tweeters and go to machining this week. 

Eight pairs of Superior Electric 30 Amp 5-way binding posts are with the materials for the build.  Will work well with the Belden 1309a 14awg speaker cables.  The polyolefin insulation is very easy to work with.

The heatsinks from sandbagger are here for the tweeter amp module build.  Have an idea for the chassis(s) for them.   



 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 Aug 2016, 02:18 pm
The BlunderBUSS is progressing and getting closer.  Guts are finished and chassis is in work.

The magnet material is in for the 8 - 20" ribbons and pole pieces are getting built.  Then on to assembly, testing and shipping.

Finishing the last four amp modules installs on the heatsinks and on to testing them. 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Aug 2016, 07:10 pm
Metal work for the 8 - 20" ribbon tweeter arrays are complete. Magnets are cut.  Assembly begins today.

Hopefully on track for the end of August to start installing them in The Megaliths!

Software for the dspMusik RevD is in testing phase for one part and another part to be completed by the end of the week. 




Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: JohnR on 18 Aug 2016, 02:22 pm
inches... 80 * 2.54 =  2 meters! Do you have a picture of any of the modules? Any time its convenient.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Aug 2016, 02:25 pm
The first 8 ribbons to be built this size are happening now. 

Will post pictures once I have them to install about the end of the month.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Aug 2016, 05:02 pm
Here is a picture from GT Audio Works of the prototype dipole ribbon tweeter line array. 

Greg had said he would not mind making them for folks interested.  They can just contact him through his website.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148708)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 18 Aug 2016, 06:51 pm
Greg's ribbon tweeters in my GTA 2.5s are only 48" long, puny in comparison, but they sure make cymbal crashes sound real and alive. I know Rich can't wait, and Greg is making them as fast as possible, soon Rich, soon. LOL
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 18 Aug 2016, 06:55 pm
This is definitely exciting.  Can't wait for the measurements and your listening impressions. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Aug 2016, 07:05 pm
These are a bit different as they are 20" long ribbons instead of the larger ones he normally uses.  I need that for the multiamp setup and beamformer feeds. 

I know Greg is going as fast as he can.  After 6+ years of work, what is another month. 

Long pole is still the dspMusik 2x DSP crossover for 16 channels.  Still waiting on the RevD unit software for the single and then onto the dual unit.  You cannot push SOTA.   
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 31 Aug 2016, 02:15 am
The 8 ribbon tweeter arrays are completed and will ship to be here next week.

The 24 outlet BlunderBUSS is done and should ship this week.

Danville Signal is sending test code soon for the dspMusik RevD system to test with. Should be ready for a demo in Colorado with a pair of LS-9's by October.  Hope to have the completed 16 channel dspMusik in 4Q '16.

Sometimes you just have to go away and let things happen.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 5 Sep 2016, 08:23 pm
A new design variant of the ribbon tweeter was tried and listening tests showed improvements.  The 8 ribbon elements are being reworked and will ship this week. 

The dspMusik RevD firmware is loaded and listening trials started. 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Sep 2016, 02:44 am
The 8 - 20" ribbon arrays are complete and should ship tomorrow.  Will be here next week to get installed and testing start.

Will use a passive crossover to the ribbons until the dspMusik RevD 16 channel system is completed to implement the full beamforming for both mids and tweeters.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Sep 2016, 07:11 pm
The tracking info shows the 8 - 20" ribbon arrays will be here Wednesday. Unpacking instructions in hand for arrival.

This should be interesting!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 Sep 2016, 05:53 pm
The day has arrived and the 8 - 20" ribbon tweeters are here.  Will be unpacking them and look at best mounting method to the baffles.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150322)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Guy 13 on 14 Sep 2016, 08:58 pm
The day has arrived and the 8 - 20" ribbon tweeters are here.  Will be unpacking them and look at best mounting method to the baffles.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=150322)

At last, at long long last, they are here !  :thumb:

Guy 13
on planet Vietnam.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: ebag4 on 15 Sep 2016, 03:48 am
Eagerly awaiting the final product, this is exciting even from here!

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 23 Sep 2016, 02:47 pm
Unpacked the ribbon tweeters and did a test fit.  Have 1/2" on either side of the tweeter to take up to get it to fit, since the slot was sized for the BG Neo3.

The height is correct for one tweeter to match the length for 2 - BG Neo10's, so that will work correctly for stacking them.

Easiest thing would be filler so I do not have to drill new holes in the top and bottom header to move the one 1"x2"x87" oak strip.  The tweeter screws will match the existing width. Back to Lowes I go to look. 

A very open mesh grill material for around the tweeters is here as well and I can possibly wrap that and the tweeter with the extra width material to hold it together before screwing down the arrays.

The dspMusik RevD 8 channel crossover unit is here as well, so that will be going in instead of the RevC originally in use. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 8 Oct 2016, 08:48 pm
Test fitted a pair of ribbon tweeters using felt to hold them in the wood slot.  Works very well with the material I had, so now need to get more to complete the 8 tweeter install.  Then put in the 4 wood screws per tweeter to hold them in place.

In the mean time the 4 amp modules to drive the tweeter arrays are complete and testing begins with the correct loads to simulate the ribbon and passive crossover needed until I get the 16 channel dspMusik system.  Using the 8 channel version now and reusing the midrange outputs with an extra high pass cap for the ribbons. 

I also have the black mesh grill cloth to protect the ribbons, so that will be installed with the felt to complete the speakers.  Then more testing to get everything tweaked in. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=151666)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 15 Oct 2016, 07:43 pm
The PI Audio Group BlunderBUSS has arrived to power the amplifier array for The Megaliths.  The TWL HAL AC power cables are here as well for all AC connections.

This will have 20 Class AB amp channels, two Rythmik Audio HX800 servo amps and the dspMusik RevD connected for the drive system for the speakers.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152008)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152009)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: ebag4 on 15 Oct 2016, 11:08 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152009)

WOW!!! :o :thumb:

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 15 Oct 2016, 11:43 pm
Ed,
Figured it would be pretty big with 24 outlets.

To go with that, here are the 20 amp channels to drive the Neo10's and ribbon tweeter arrays and one of the Rythmik HX800 servo amps with the BlunderBUSS for power conditioning.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152029)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: SlushPuppy on 16 Oct 2016, 12:38 am
Hal, you are a mad scientist, and I mean that in the best possible way! This has been a fun project to watch and I can't wait to see what you end up with!

Best regards,

Slush
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Anonamemouse on 7 Nov 2016, 11:43 am
 :o
Wow... This is awesome! Threads like these makes any guy want a mancave... It's a shame I live waaay too many time zones away from you to drop by and listen...
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: aldcoll on 7 Nov 2016, 01:22 pm
Once again this has to be the best up cycle of used pizza boxes :thumb:

Alan
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Nov 2016, 02:22 pm
It has been a fun project so far and hope more to come. 

Lots of recycled aluminum in use as well for heatsinks along with the "pizza boxes".  :)

Now to get the ribbon tweeters installed and everything hooked up for measurements and listening.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Nov 2016, 09:35 pm
Getting the felt installed on the 20" ribbon tweeters for installation.  This will hold it in the slot to allow hole drilling and attachment.

I asked Greg for the 5-way binding post install to allow speaker cable attachment for each tweeter.  I had the binding posts from previous ideas.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153133)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 8 Nov 2016, 07:52 pm
All 8 ribbon tweeters have the felt installed.

Now to use them to locate the pilot holes to drill to get ready for screwing them into the frame. 

The speaker wiring is ready to attach once the tweeters are installed.



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: ebag4 on 9 Nov 2016, 01:25 am
Hal, you have me on the edge of my seat!  :thumb:  I am anxiously awaiting the unveiling of your masterpiece!,

Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Ric Schultz on 22 Dec 2016, 02:11 am
Hal,
What is up with the line array?  It must be incredible!  Unless not finished or problem?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 22 Dec 2016, 02:56 am
The new tweeters were to long for the original slot.

Working on new headers to make the slot longer.  Since I do not do woodworking, have a friend helping.  Prototype worked, so now time to correct the original header widths.  Hopefully after the holidays will be reworked.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 24 Jan 2017, 01:52 am
After some baffle rework, have the 4 ribbon tweeter arrays installed in The Megalith baffles.

The second phase will be a trial with the dspMusik with 8 channels, where the final phase will include the 16 channel dspMusik.

Will see how the new wiring goes to the tweeter amps. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156790)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156789)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 24 Jan 2017, 02:50 am
Glad to see progress.  I almost called yesterday to get an update.  Let's get this thing playing... your audience is impatient!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 24 Jan 2017, 10:10 pm
Scott,
I am doing my best.  At least the mechanical part is done!



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 25 Jan 2017, 01:27 am
Scott,
I am doing my best.  At least the mechanical part is done!
That was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek.  So now comes the electronic control of each driver.  Impressive stuff.  Let us know how it is going. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 25 Jan 2017, 02:31 pm
Rich, It appears you're getting close to the finish line, can't wait to hear the system.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 23 Feb 2017, 10:15 pm
To make more room for The Megaliths, moving out my Super-V's.  Unpacked them from the back of the listening room and then out to move the bass towers into better locations.  Hope to have this completed by next week.

The Super-V's are most likely sold and will be picked up in March. 

The wiring of the tweeter arrays to the amps is completed and reworked with the dspMusik RevD as the digital crossover.  Once the bass towers are moved, will be time to power up the system for measurements and Room EQ correction trials. 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 28 Feb 2017, 09:08 pm
At 11AM this morning, Avoosl made it over today to help me move the Super-V's upstairs for their demo in March.

What he did not know was that The Megaliths Stage 2 were fully operational in the listening room awaiting a demo.  After moving the Super-V's, we went down for the demo for the first time with everything operational with the system I have.

Sounds pretty good to me, but still a way to go with Room EQ and the 16 channel dspMusik as the next steps.  Earlier I had tried multiple music genres classical, pop and hard rock with equally good results. 

The picture shows the PI Audio Group BlunderBUSS with the custom Triode Wire Lab HAL 2m power cables that were built for this speaker project.  My thanks go out to both of them.

It's alive.   IT'S ALIVE!   BWAHA BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA   :D

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158455)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 28 Feb 2017, 10:01 pm
Wow! What a project! The excitement builds . . . .
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Avoosl on 2 Mar 2017, 08:45 pm
     I'm privileged to be, after Rich, the first to hear these long, long time a-waiting MegaLith speakers.  And … ? 
First, some context.

     I just don't like the sound of the open-baffle speakers I've heard, including the SuperVs - so I was prejudiced
against expecting much good from these speakers, though I encouraged Rich over the last 7 years simply because
of the audacity of his extensions to the simple line array idea.

     First, the idea of a small amplifier controlling each, or each pair of drivers in a speaker with more drivers than
most could easily count was ludicrous and hard to believe at first. But this extreme idea began to lessen my prejudice.

     Second, the control of the varying arrival time of elements in a tall vertical array using digital time delay seemed
like an obvious remedy for any failings and further lessened my prejudice. Why bother with a line array without
correcting for the slightly different arrival times?

     Third, the use of a many-channel, active digital crossover seemed to me an optimal approach, especially given
that the problem of an impossibly unwieldy array of big amplifiers had already been solved with the use of the small
chip-amps. My prejudice had now lessened to the point that I was looking forward to a listen, even if a little
anxiously. I'm Rich's friend, but I'm also ruthless about audio matters.

     Since we were scheduled to travel up the road on an unrelated matter, I only heard two tracks, both of which
I've heard many times. The first was a full orchestral piece (Polovtsian Dances?) I've heard so often as a test track,
I've lost certainty of its name. It was as if the music took full control of the room. Instruments were solidly positioned
 here, there and everywhere about the room with what I would judge as exceptional clarity, solidity and an honest,
appropriate tonality for each. Now - the speakers are close up, almost in your face, with plenty of room in back of
them, so the depth should have been good, and, in fact, was all I could ask for. And, close as they were, the speakers
 themselves seemed to vanish! This is a cliché more often written about than heard, but I was there and I heard it.

     The second track I heard was one we've both heard many times, more because we plain like it, than because it's
a test track. This was 'The Gates of Istanbul' from Loreena McKennit's 'An Ancient Muse' collection. Featuring a wild
array of old and new instruments from east and west with Loreena's oddly keening, yet beautiful voice. A test track
for sure. Some of the oddball instruments sounded even purer than on my own system, which I am quite partial to.
Again, the spacing and tightness of the instruments came out admirably well. I would have liked a little more bass,
and Loreena's voice was somewhat spatially disintegrated depending on how high or low her pitch was. Rich
explained that this and other factors would be corrected when the final many, many-channel crossover arrives to refine
the driver coordination. Even so, this is looking like a speaker for the ages. All of them! My sincere congratulations to
Rich for his more than human persistence in getting this done. But then, he is HAL, after all.
 
     I still don't like OB speakers, but this is a notable exception. Ask Rich for a listen.

Avoosl
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Mar 2017, 03:01 am
Avoosl,
The track is from Reference Recordings Exotic Dances, Dance Of The Tumblers by Rimsky-Korsakov.  I like it for full range orchestral dynamics. 

Next time bring Elvis for the next listening session. :)

So far every musical genre I play is reproduced with the sound field I really enjoy. 

Fun listening sessions in the future as more measurements and tweaking occur.  Then dspMusik RevD upgrades will be really interesting.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: ebag4 on 7 Mar 2017, 03:52 am
Congratulations Hal, quite the  achievement!  I look forward to reading more on the sound as you get them tuned up and tweaked.

Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Mar 2017, 04:02 am
Ed,
Thanks! 

Will keep everyone posted as things progress.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: GT Audio Works on 7 Mar 2017, 01:26 pm
Hey Rich,
Glad to hear they are alive and sounding fine.
I remember you blasting those demo tracks at CAF.
On the remote chance during one of your more enthusiastic listening sessions you should blow a tweeter,
don't worry, its just a FedEx shipment away from a rebuild.
But I doubt it will happen, as you recall we clipped the crap out of my amps many times at CAF,  which sent some nasty noise spikes thru the tweeters and they survived well.
Hopefully come November after CAF 2017 I can stop by for a listen.

Greg
GTAW
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Mar 2017, 02:20 pm
Greg,
Thanks again for making these ribbons for me.  They are working out very well!  Getting loud and clean with this setup is not a problem for realistic levels. 

Will have to setup a listening session here for folks after CAF2017 in November.  Let me know what day works for you.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: GT Audio Works on 7 Mar 2017, 02:47 pm
Greg,
Thanks again for making these ribbons for me.  They are working out very well!  Getting loud and clean with this setup is not a problem for realistic levels. 

Will have to setup a listening session here for folks after CAF2017 in November.  Let me know what day works for you.
Looking forward to it...The only time I would be available,  would be that Sunday evening after the show ends.
After that its back to Jersey in the morning.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Mar 2017, 03:00 pm
Greg,
Will email you the info. 

Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Mar 2017, 06:00 pm
danvprod stopped by today to demo the Super-V's and they are now his.  Installed his 4 servo subs for the listening.  Thanks to Avoosl, who stopped in as well, as it took all 3 of us to get them into the SUV for the trip home.  Glad it all worked out and hopefully many years of happy listening to the Super-V's.

After the Super-V listening and loading, went to the listening room and fired up The Megaliths for a demo.  Put danvprod in the chair and put on some favorite demo tracks.   Think he enjoyed the demo. :)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: danvprod on 12 Mar 2017, 02:35 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159026)

I had the pleasure of visiting @Hal today. In addition to giving his Super Vs a new home, I got a chance to hear these beauties. I had to take two pictures on the iPhone and merge them together to capture the huge-ness of these!

As I told @Hal, if this was my system I would never leave this room. I've never heard anything like these before. The closest experience I've had to this listening experience is Stax headphones. These arrays present a sense of space and envelopment better than nearly everything I have heard in the past and the bass is just perfect. Well-designed speakers, DSP-done right and a properly treated room make these A+ in my book.

Can't wait to hear how this project evolves in the future.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 12 Mar 2017, 04:53 am
So Rich, is this a wrap?  All electronics in place, all measurements taken, all time alignments done... and all the other things that I don't even know exist finished as well? 
Just out of curiosity, how many years has this project been in incubation? 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Mar 2017, 12:57 pm
Scott,
No, still waiting on the 16 channel version of the dspMusik to add the extra digital crossover capabilities.  That date is still TBD.  I call this the stage 2 version.  Even at this stage they sound very good to me.  I still think improvements will occur with more measurements and tweaking. 

First time I was inspired by a planar line array was in 1979 with the Infinity IRS Reference III demo at a show.   Then when you and I were at Danny's for his planar line arrays demo that started these ideas for this build.  The dspMusik capabilities to make this all work started 7 years ago in its first revision.   Greg making the ribbon tweeter arrays was last year when I gave up waiting on the BG Neo3-PDR's being available to go with the Neo10's.  A long time.

Fun stuff!   

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Mar 2017, 01:45 pm
Dan,
Glad you liked The Megaliths demo yesterday. Thanks for the nice write-up!

The HAL MS-3 Music Server and dspMusik RevD digital crossover were driving the amps and controlling the DAC volumes for the system that you heard.  Fun listening to it all working.

   
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 12 Mar 2017, 02:15 pm
HAL,

I am mighty impressed by your persistence to push forward. It gives me impetus on my own projects.

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Mar 2017, 02:35 pm
Anand,
Glad it inspires you to make progress with your projects! 

It is definitely a fun project!   :D
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Peter J on 12 Mar 2017, 03:35 pm
These scare me...
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: S Clark on 12 Mar 2017, 04:39 pm
These scare me...
Indeed they should!  Audiophile spouses everywhere fear the coming of the Megaliths.  After hearing them, audiophiles will cry quietly upon returning to their pitiful and completely inadequate rigs, sitting empty eyed and slack jawed with tonearms running endlessly at records end or with file servers set on random.   :o
After hearing Danny's planar line array, it took years of therapy to regain a semblance of audiophile normality.   
Sad to say, Rich never recovered...  I don't know if I could survive the Megaliths. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Mar 2017, 05:26 pm
Scott,
I have not recovered since the 1979 listening session to the IRS Ref III's!   :o
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: rollo on 12 Mar 2017, 07:26 pm
  Well done Hal. I'm sure the GTA tweeters helped greatly. Actually just ordered a pair of GTA speakers. Now OB sub time. Only two per side.


charles
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Mar 2017, 11:23 pm
Charles,
Really like Greg's ribbons in the system.

My friend George and his wife stopped by for a quick listen to the system.   Had fun with some RR Pomps & Pipes Organ playback.  Just amazingly clean from ribbons to bass.   

Fun listening sessions to come.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Apr 2017, 09:10 pm
Have MathAudio RoomEQ running with Foobar2000 on the HAL MS-3 for The Megaliths.   :thumb:

This will be a good system to run until the 16 channel dspMusik is completed.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: danvprod on 14 Aug 2017, 04:51 pm
I see that Danny has started receiving the GR Neo 3s http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.0).

Have you any plans to add these into your arrays or are you pretty happy with the ribbons you are currently using?

Any other progress?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 Aug 2017, 08:23 pm
Dan,
I have the latest 8 channel version of the dspMusik LCD running with The Megaliths.  Still the GT ribbons and Neo10 planars.   

I have a great interest in the new Neo3's when Danny has made his measurements. Would need 48 of the Neo3's.  I really think with both the mods in discussion they will be an improvement. 

Still waiting on the 16 channel version of the dspMusik and no ETA to date.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Sep 2017, 07:47 pm
Dissasembled the two 6x12 servo sub towers to relocate them compared to the main baffles for a more symmetrical setup. 

Next will be changing some time delay settings on the dspMusik LCD crossover for the new sub positions and then run MathAudio RoomEQ measurements for new correction. 

This should be interesting!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 9 Sep 2017, 07:56 pm
I will be interested in your comparison of your Megalith system and the GT Audio Works room with Sound Insight's room with a double 6x12 OB setup, when you attend CAF this November.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Sep 2017, 08:12 pm
HAL will not be in the GT Audioworks room this year.  Will stop by at some point in the show to listen.  They will be using a transport this year from what I was told.

To bad, as I was going to try running MathAudio RoomEQ this time on the MS-3 as well and do a A/B trial.  Oh well.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 9 Sep 2017, 09:11 pm
Rich, I guess it's just GTAW & SI this year, anyway I meant you'll hear the room and be able to make some comparisons. Steve is bringing an Esoteric K01x SACD player & Acoustic Signature TT as sources. With many similarities between the 2 speaker systems, I'm interested to see how the GTAW full range driver and tweeter compare to your planar mids with the same/similar GTAW tweeters, the OB woofers appear to be very similar. I'm looking forward to seeing you again in Rockville, will you be at RMAF?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Sep 2017, 09:16 pm
Kemper,
Yes, that is what I heard from Greg.

Yes, I plan to be at RMAF as well as CAF. 

The 6x12" OB servo subs I have are identical to his as last I heard.

See you soon.

Rich

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 10 Sep 2017, 01:26 pm
I'm looking forward to seeing both you guys (Rich and Kemper) at RMAF. Lunch or dinner on Friday maybe?
Best,
Chuck
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Sep 2017, 01:42 pm
Chuck,
Lunch or dinner Friday work for me.   Will be staying at the Marriott for the show.

Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 10 Sep 2017, 08:32 pm
Rich & Chuck, Friday should work, see you guys there.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 Sep 2017, 12:59 am
Using Wolfram's Mathmatica on a Raspberry Pi3 to do the time domain beamformer delay calculations and found a bug, so that is fixed and new delays calculated.  All this is based on the listening distance from the array.

Updated the dspMusik LCD block diagram and everything is running.

Now to run RoomEQ measurements and get the new correction going.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 20 Sep 2017, 08:47 pm
Updated speaker positions and servo sub grills installed.

dspMusikLCD program updated.  Now boots with the new code running.

Next up MathAudio RoomEQ measurements and then listening.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168730)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 Oct 2017, 11:32 pm
Had my friends Avoosl and Charlie over today for The Megaliths stage 2 listening session. 

Very interesting listening responses on very different sets of responses for the speaker with both RoomEQ running Neutral, Bright and Bypass modes.  Now to build a custom response curve in RoomEQ and see what happens for the next listening session.

Progress continues.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 13 Oct 2017, 01:35 am
Back from RMAF2017 and had a nice dinner visit with THROWBACK, KLH007 and lots of other friends. 

New amplification ideas for The Megaliths planars and ribbons have started.  The ideas will allow no series capacitors for the ribbon drivers.

Have a new RoomEQ curve for the minimum phase room correction to run on the MS-3 in Foobar2000.  Like this idea more than either of the stock RoomEQ Bright or Neutral settings.

More fun listening times ahead. 

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 13 Oct 2017, 12:40 pm
The Marriott dining room was the best room at the show when you guys were in it.
Chuck
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 13 Oct 2017, 10:27 pm
Chuck, What a fun dinner with you, Rich, Mike, Kevin, and new acquaintances so glad I could make it.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 Oct 2017, 12:55 pm
THROWBACK and KLH007,

Always fun to meet up!

Whenever we get folks together at the show it is always the best room. 

Back from multiple travels and time to try some new ideas with The Megaliths.   Also have The Monoliths in work as well.  Lots of open baffle planar speaker fun going on.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 19 Oct 2017, 01:59 pm
Rich, It was a fun dinner, glad you invited me. What is your Monolith? See you in Rockville.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 Oct 2017, 02:01 pm
KLH007,
Here is the description and pictures of the first steps.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153244.msg1638564#new
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 19 Oct 2017, 02:18 pm
Rich, just after I posted I found the Monolith thread, very prolific in your retirement, aren't you? Makes a trip down to see you a must, lots of irons in the fire!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 26 Oct 2017, 12:16 pm
Installed the two Parasound A23 stereo amps for vertically biamping the 8 (four pairs) of GT Audio Works 20" ribbons in The Megaliths last night.  I think 800 watts of tweeter power should be fine.  They are DC coupled servo controlled amps so no DC offset with protection at startup.  Sound very clean!

First test was with just the ribbons and 6x12" servo subs.  Did very well with just the ribbon DC protection caps (single pole highpass) installed.  Next step it to move the crossover before the A23's and direct couple the ribbons. 

Next bring up the Neo10 arrays and integrate them with the ribbons.

More listening to go.



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Nov 2017, 03:35 pm
The order for the next batch of Parasound A23's is in.  They worked very well with the ribbon tweeters!

All the ChipAmp modules are now being replaced by the A23's.  Will be a much more compact setup since the amp chassis can be stacked.  This will lower the DC offset and provide driver protection that the original do not have. 

Now to work on the automatic amp start system.  They have 12VDC start signal inputs with cables. 
 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Nov 2017, 01:14 am
Just got confirmation a pallet of Parasound Halo A23 amps is on the way via 18 wheeler.

My Evil plan is coming along nicely!   Bwahah Bwahahahahahah!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 Nov 2017, 12:25 pm
The anticipation builds.  :o

The amps will be here Friday for installation and testing with the speakers.  Then new room measurements with the improve calibrated mic system.



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 14 Nov 2017, 01:45 pm
Isn't measuring a room using a mike doing it the hard way, Rich? Why not just use a tape measure? Heh heh.

Not funny, eh? OK, OK.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 14 Nov 2017, 02:38 pm
Easier with a MIC.  My arms are not long enough to stretch that far! :)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Nov 2017, 01:03 pm
Tomorrow is the big day!

Hope to get to see the finish test on the 1x12 module #1 for the 6x12's.  Waiting on the phone call.

Truck arrives with a pallet of Parasound A23's.

Another truck arrives with two modular 2x12 H-Frame flat packs.

Emailed Danny about 4 more SW-12-16FR drivers to use with my HX300 servo amps.

Once the amps are installed time for new system measurements! 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Nov 2017, 06:35 pm
First modular 1x12 finished in Hot Rod black and I like it!!!  :D

Next week will start the other 5 modules for finishing to do one 6x12 at a time. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171479)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Tyson on 17 Nov 2017, 06:46 pm
Oh that's niiiiiccee.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Nov 2017, 06:53 pm
Tyson,
Thanks! 

Guess I should have cleaned my phone camera lens.  The smudges are only in the picture.

This is about to be the coolest thing I ever built.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Tyson on 17 Nov 2017, 07:10 pm
People don't understand about the Neo10 and Neo3 combo.  It's magical. 

6 years ago when first I heard the Super V, they had the OB servo bass and that bass was the best I'd ever heard, regardless of price.  But the concentric cone-dome mids/tweeter section did not match the world class bass section. 

Then Danny switched to the Super 7's with the Neo10 and Neo3 combo.  Not only did the mids/highs match the bass, but in some ways actually surpassed it.  And that's with just 4 Neo10's and one Neo3 per side.  My mind boggles at what you'll achieve. 

Edit - I se that you went with different tweeters, some ribbons.  I bet that sounds great too.  But I'd encourage you to give the Neo3's a chance in the future, if you can.  There's just synergy with the Neo10s that's hard to match, IMO. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Nov 2017, 09:30 pm
Tyson,
I have the ribbons since the Neo3's were not available, but the baffles are designed to handle them.

With all that you do need some amps, so they have arrived.  Parasound Halo A23's x10.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171485)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Nov 2017, 11:15 am
Two more black Parasound A23 amps unboxed and ready to connect to The Megaliths.  Matches the color of the subs and Neo10's.

Using silver Parasound A23 amps for the GT Audio Works ribbons.

Four more to go and all 10 of the amps will be installed and then testing begins.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171502)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 18 Nov 2017, 01:52 pm
Dang, Rich! You're a 12-year-old kid again (but with a beard). What a terrific project!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Nov 2017, 04:28 pm
That is the plan.  Do what I want and see what happens.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Nov 2017, 06:30 pm
Acquired the correct balanced Y XLR splitter cables for the prototype setup with the 8 channel dspMusikLCD and getting the amps connected.  It was easy with the ChipAmps as I had the XLR Y's built in.

Amp connections continue and wire paths straightened to make easy cable runs to the dspMusikLCD and line arrays.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 18 Nov 2017, 11:37 pm
After 2 days of work with my friend Avoosl, the 10 Parasound A23 amps are installed and making great music. There is no strain ever on any volume level for replay. The system is not even done and it sounds really good!

Here are some first pictures of the system after removing the ChipAmps and installing the A23's.

Thanks go to Avoosl and Richard Schram at Parasound who have helped greatly to get this speaker system to the next stage of existence.

If anyone does not believe DSP crossovers can sound better than a great passive version, they should hear these speakers. That can be arranged!

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171552)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171553)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171554)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 Nov 2017, 03:33 am
Dang, Rich! You're a 12-year-old kid again (but with a beard). What a terrific project!

Chuck,
For some statistics, the ribbon tweeters have 400 watts rms, Class A/B, the midranges have 1200 watts rms, Class A/B and the servo subs have 800 watts rms, Class D per side!  That is a total of 4800 watts rms of power with headroom that never gets reached.  That is the equivalent of 6.4 horsepower of drive.  All being driven by the dspMusikLCD as the entire front end with the MS-3 as the Music Server.  The ADC modules are very clean indeed!

Having a lot of fun listening to this!
Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Phil A on 19 Nov 2017, 01:44 pm
Rich - those speakers are really starting to look scary - reminds me of an old sci-fi movie 'Kronos.'

(http://www.astro.caltech.edu/palomar/images/blog/kronos5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 19 Nov 2017, 02:27 pm
Phil,
Loved that movie! 

I like scary!!!

Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Nov 2017, 01:25 am
The Megaliths 16 channel dspMusikLCD crossover design is ready for testing.  The system arrives next Sunday for measurements and listening trials to begin.

The excitement builds!!!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: jtwrace on 27 Nov 2017, 01:28 am
What's the cost of this whole setup? 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Nov 2017, 01:37 am
Much less than most things I have seen recently at this sound quality. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Tyson on 27 Nov 2017, 04:37 am
You should bring them to one of the audio shows.  I'm thinking RMAF next year would be a good choice :P
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Nov 2017, 12:23 pm
Most likely if I do it will be Capital Audio Fest for 2018.  Waiting on word of large room availability. 

I can drive there in a few hours.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: JohnR on 28 Nov 2017, 09:18 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171552)

Looking pretty awesome  :thumb:

Pity it's such a long drive  :lol:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Dec 2017, 10:40 pm
The 16 channel dspMusikLCD with the first revision The Megaliths crossover is up and running! 

Need to make more measurements and try the room correction with Foobar2000 with the new crossover.

This is getting better all the time!!! :)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172477)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: richidoo on 7 Dec 2017, 11:19 pm
Who let the housekeeper in there!?!  :icon_lol:   Did they vacuum up all those chip amps?

Looks nice Rich, if not a bit intimidating!  :o

Is it a 3 way?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Dec 2017, 11:43 pm
It is a 7 way array speaker design.  :o
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 11 Jan 2018, 01:05 pm
.....  That is the equivalent of 6.4 horsepower of drive.
I've owned lawnmowers with less power.  :o
Great thread, I just caught wind of it.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 11 Jan 2018, 01:10 pm
Glad you are interested.   Always fun to talk about it with others.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 29 Jan 2018, 03:25 am
After a lot of travel, back to The Megaliths and the updated crossover design.

Finished getting Windows 10 1709 loaded on the MS-3 and software is up and running for measurements.

With the new version of REW, it now has support for 192KHz sample rate operation.  This means all speaker measurements with it are at the native processing rate of the dspMusikLCD 2x16.  Using the Earthworks M550 mic and 1021 mic preamp into the ADC will give full minimum phase measurement capability for the system. 

Will be doing measurement trials on Monday and see what is now possible with the new system.

There is also improved support for MathAudio RoomEQ for HiRez measurements as well.  This will be part of the measurement trials.

First will be finishing the adjustments to the digital crossover for flattest response before any correction is applied.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 29 Jan 2018, 10:39 pm
The measurement system is working with the dspMusikLCD 2x16 and have the subs and mids integrated with a set of measurements.  All measurement are with the 24bit/192KHz capability of the crossover running from the MS-3 Music Server. 

Next is to integrate the ribbon tweeters with the mids and see what happens. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: richidoo on 4 Feb 2018, 05:19 pm
Rich, what combination of servo amps do you use for the 6 driver subs?  Is it three 16 ohm drivers in parallel per amp, with 2 amps per side? Thanks
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 Feb 2018, 07:56 pm
Rich,
The HX800 amps have two 400 watt Class-D amp modules per side, so 3 and 3 for one 6x12.

The subs are the SW-12-16FR's, 16 ohm OB drivers with 3 in parallel per amp module.

Total of two HX800's for the system with the two 6x12's.

Love the 1600 watts of bass power for these!

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: richidoo on 5 Feb 2018, 03:07 pm
Thanks Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Feb 2018, 09:58 pm
Had a day to make some measurements on The Megaliths and do some response tweaking.

The is the Audiomatica Pocket CLIO frequency response of the left speaker at my listening location 8' from the array.  Still have some room interaction to work on, but very nice without any room correction system running at all.  The measurement has 1/3 Octave smoothing, 100mSec time window and 48KHz scale for reference. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175854)

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Feb 2018, 01:28 pm
First listening session with friends last night.  Progress has been made with the new implementation of the crossover.

Now to try the RoomEQ function with the new measurement suite.

One person said they miss the pizza box amp look!  :)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 6 Mar 2018, 03:30 am
Have the MathAudio RoomEQ parameters for the dspMusikLCD 2x16 to run room correction in the DSP with their technique for The Megaliths. 

The signal processing to implement RoomEQ in the DSP is to offload the PC to just play music files. 

The dspMusikLCD 2x16 will make the 24bit/192KHz HiRez room measurements with a calibrated measurement mic through the digital crossover needed to create the room correction with the VST plug-in version of RoomEQ.  The correction data is then loaded into the dspMusikLCD for playback. 

This will then work for any input, analog or digital for the dspMusikLCD for playing music.





Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 9 Mar 2018, 10:42 pm
The Megaliths dspMusik crossover is now updated with the MathAudio RoomEQ signal processing and running both the digital crossover and room correction in realtime.

Will be bringing up the rest of the system for listening trials soon.   
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 16 Apr 2018, 03:36 am
After making new 24bit/192KHz room measurements with MathAudio RoomEQ, the MS-3 and dspMusikLCD 2x16, have The Megaliths sounding great with all the music playback tonight. Classical, Jazz, Pop and Rock all sound wonderful and very open like music in a space.

First test was the original CD version of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Sounds better than I remember it, and now need to get the DSD version online for a comparison.

Almost time for friends to come over for another listening session to gauge progress.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 20 Apr 2018, 08:32 pm
Worked with MathAudio and have the signal processing for RoomEQ running on the dspMusikLCD 2x16 for The Megaliths.

Friends are on the way over with their music for a listening session!  Looking forward to the comments on this stage of the speakers.

Might be some bratwurst and beer involved!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: THROWBACK on 20 Apr 2018, 10:06 pm
Dang, Rich. Wish I could be there to partake of them all. Have a great session!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: ebag4 on 21 Apr 2018, 02:06 am
Dang, Rich. Wish I could be there to partake of them all. Have a great session!
X2!!

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 21 Apr 2018, 05:10 am
THROWBACK and ebag4,

If you get out this direction, let me know.  Listening room is up and running.

It was a fine time indeed with bratwurst and beer.  Listening session was fun as well and good to get feedback from three other folks who are great at expressing what they are hearing.

Progress has been made, but more to do.  Good thing is there was a lot of agreement on where changes are needed. 



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 May 2018, 09:06 pm
Just finished rewiring the two 6x12" servo subs in preparation for moving them in the room.  Will be easier to disassemble the stacks for moving and testing the new spots before setting up all the modules in the new locations.   

Good part is the new 14awg wiring is shorter than the original.

Good checks to do before the CAF2018 show coming in November.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 7 May 2018, 09:42 pm
Rich, Did you get the large room Carver was in for 2017 CAF?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 May 2018, 09:44 pm
KLH007,
Yes, that is the room that HAL and Danville Signal have for CAF2018. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 24 Jul 2018, 01:35 am
After doing some room and sub modeling, decided on a new location for the servo sub towers in my listening room. 

Avoosl came over for the sub tower movement and driver rewire to test them with all the sub drivers facing forward.   Updated the time delay between the subs and lines to work with the new sub positioning.  Audibly much improved over the original response in the low end from the original positions.

Will be making new room response measurements to see what needs adjustment. 

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182740)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: JerryM on 24 Jul 2018, 02:29 am
Sweet.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: rollo on 24 Jul 2018, 01:55 pm
  Cannot wait to hear these. Knowing Ha's work this speaker will sound better than any similar design. Wow !!!


charles
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: mix4fix on 29 Oct 2018, 05:10 am
First modular 1x12 finished in Hot Rod black and I like it!!!  :D

Next week will start the other 5 modules for finishing to do one 6x12 at a time. 

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171479)

Can I has a couple?
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 29 Oct 2018, 12:52 pm
You can buy the servo sub cabinet modules and amp cabinets as flat packs, glue them up and paint them. 

Then you can buy the GR Research open baffle servo sub drivers and Rythmik Audio servo amps to install for use.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: AUDFILE74 on 29 Dec 2018, 01:02 am
Amazing  work HAL !!!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: wshuff on 29 Dec 2018, 01:33 am
This is the kind of insanity I can get behind!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 29 Dec 2018, 01:44 am
Thanks! 

Fun speakers to listen for music. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 22 Jan 2019, 11:00 pm
Avoosl came over today to help with The Megaliths moving to a new location in the listening room.

The prototype MS-5 Music Server is up and running with the dspMusikLCD 2x16 system. 

Next step is to install the modified ribbon tweeters and wire them up.   Then to get it all hooked up and running and try a new crossover idea.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Mar 2019, 06:07 pm
The 8 updated GT Audio Works ribbons are installed and running in The Megaliths.  Making music at this time.

Now for some new measurements to check the dspMusikLCD 2x16 digital crossover with the change to the ribbons.  Tweaking the new positions as well.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192572)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Tyson on 27 Mar 2019, 06:19 pm
That's gotta sound ridiculously good. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: KLH007 on 27 Mar 2019, 07:28 pm
Rich, Let me and Jim G know when it's time to take a road trip down to hear them!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Angaria on 27 Mar 2019, 07:50 pm
Can you say way has changed in terms of materials or sound of the new tweeters?  Curious if you've compared to the neo3.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Mar 2019, 11:19 pm
That's gotta sound ridiculously good.

Tyson,
Just had a friend over that had not heard them in awhile.  Played a live grand piano recording and it has the same large scale sound of the Steinway D.  Effortless is a good description. 

Having a digital crossover of this quality with this setup just does things very well.  Full control over everything right from the computer playing music. 

I think it will continue to improve as more measurements and adjustments are made as the new ribbons break-in. 
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Mar 2019, 11:21 pm
Rich, Let me and Jim G know when it's time to take a road trip down to hear them!
Kemper,

Will be available after AXPONA if you both have time in April.  Let me know dates and can arrange listening time.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 27 Mar 2019, 11:26 pm
Can you say way has changed in terms of materials or sound of the new tweeters?  Curious if you've compared to the neo3.

The new ribbons are Greg's latest design material.  The internal connection scheme has also been updated.

I have the BG Neo3-PDR's in The Monoliths setup in the other listening room.   Need more time with the new ribbons to see what happens.  Best I can say now is I like them both a lot.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 2 Apr 2019, 09:55 pm
Measurements on The Megaliths is done and the dspMusikLCD 2x16 digital crossover is updated. Ran MathAudio RoomEQ on the new HAL MS-5 Music Server and created a new room EQ that sound very good in this setup.

Listening sessions are available by appointment for anyone wanting to hear either The Megaliths or The Monoliths systems. Please PM me for setting up a time.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=192816)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 10 Jul 2019, 01:44 am
Just letting folks know The Megaliths are fully operational since some have asked about a listening session. 

PM me for scheduling a demo.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 12 Aug 2019, 01:09 am
Doing some comparison testing with a pair of HX300-12OB servo amps compared to the HX800-XLR3 servo amps on the 6x12's. 

Having the ability to set the Fc on the servo amp to the crossover frequency above 120Hz will give some extra adjustment range that has proven to work well with The Monoliths speakers.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: emailtim on 17 Aug 2019, 05:23 am
@HAL,

What are your XO points/slopes between the NEO10's and ribbon tweeters ???

TIA
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Aug 2019, 10:48 am
emailtim,
PM sent with info.
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: iFi David on 17 Aug 2019, 07:45 pm
@HAL

Very insane, but also very cool project. Keep going!
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 17 Aug 2019, 07:53 pm
Thanks!

Just waiting on the next generation of DSP crossover to try out with them.   That should be fun! :D

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 1 Sep 2019, 12:41 pm
New batch of HX300 flat pack amp boxes arrived from captainhemo.

First pair glued up. Second pair for later use.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198106)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Sep 2019, 04:45 am
glad they glued up nice for you  Rich.
Now we need to get  you  into some  composite cabs for the  Megaliths and sve you  some  drilling   on the  next pair  ,  looked painful buddy  :LOL:

jay
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Sep 2019, 10:58 am
Jay,
Maybe some day.

The Megaliths are available to audition.  PM me for details.  They will change your mind about how good a system can sound!  :D
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: rollo on 3 Sep 2019, 01:47 pm
  Set up an appointment. You will not be disappointed. Hal IMHO is keen on great sound.


charles
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Captainhemo on 3 Sep 2019, 03:17 pm
Jay,
Maybe some day.

The Megaliths are available to audition.  PM me for details.  They will change your mind about how good a system can sound!  :D

I don't  unfortunately see a long trip like that in  my  near future Rich.   However,  Big  Don does get over  that  way at  times, would be cool if one of his trips  takes him close  enough for a listening  session in  "the lab".

Charles,  have no doubt  at  how good it is  :thumb:
jay
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 3 Sep 2019, 05:24 pm
Charles,
Thanks!

Jay,
Anytime Don is around the area will try to catch up with him.

Rich
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 Nov 2019, 05:31 pm
The 6x12 servo subs are being changed from two HX800-12OB servo amps to four HX300-12OB servo amps.  Slightly less power but the crossover controls match up better for my crossover design. 

Amp #3 just arrived and amp #4 will be ordered soon.  The first two HX300-12OB servo amps are already running the lower 3x12 portion of each 6x12 servo sub.

The two used HX800-12OB servo amps will be available for sale once this is completed. 

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200488)
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 4 Jan 2020, 08:24 pm
The last HX300-12OB servo amp is on order from GR-Research and will complete the conversion of the two 6x12 servo subs. 

The used HX800-12OB servo amps are available for sale once it arrives.  I have the original packing for the amps.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 31 Jan 2020, 09:18 pm
The four HX300-12OB servo amps are connected to the two 6x12 OB H-Frames.  Working well at this point.    The HX800-12OB's are now with their new owner.

Getting the HX300-12OB amps dialed in with The Megaliths and Magnetar's in the room with the dspMusikLCD crossovers. 

Time for some new measurements and listening. 



Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Stefan42 on 7 Feb 2021, 04:25 am
Are the megaliths still alive? If yes, I would be interested in the current configuration and options.

Thanks,
Stefan
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: planet10 on 7 Feb 2021, 09:25 pm
Just noticed the name.

Megaliths also specify a specific set of horn designs (Maeshowe, Silbury, Avebury for the Mark Audio drivers).

http://wodendesign.com/MA.html

Some nice megalith pictures too (real ones, not tributes).

dave
Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: HAL on 7 Feb 2021, 09:39 pm
The Megaliths are alive, but the BG NEO10 planar mids are no longer available to purchase.  I cannot build any other speakers.

I posted about a new planar design called The Magnetar that is in work.  More once I have a production ready baffle.  They will be scalable in size.  Will also need the servo subs for below 200Hz.

Title: Re: The Megaliths open baffle line array speakers
Post by: Stefan42 on 8 Feb 2021, 12:09 am
Bummer, thanks for the update, I'll take a look at that thread