AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: jazzman463 on 6 Aug 2019, 12:27 pm
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DCM time windows gone, Audio Research SP-9 mk III gone, Emerald Physics CS3's gone, Marantz model 18 gone, Marantz 1070 gone, Klipsch KG4 and 5.5 gone, magnepan MG II's gone, Medley SP-3 gone, NAD 3020 gone, Adcom 555 gone, Zu Omen's gone, Thornes TD 125 mk II (backup ) gone, one climate controlled storage facility no longer needed, one happy wife, ...... ONE PAIR OF SPATIAL M-5's COMMING MY WAY ! ONE HAPPY ME.
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Cool. Enjoy !!!
charles
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DCM time windows gone, Audio Research SP-9 mk III gone, Emerald Physics CS3's gone, Marantz model 18 gone, Marantz 1070 gone, Klipsch KG4 and 5.5 gone, magnepan MG II's gone, Medley SP-3 gone, NAD 3020 gone, Adcom 555 gone, Zu Omen's gone, Thornes TD 125 mk II (backup ) gone, one climate controlled storage facility no longer needed, one happy wife, ...... ONE PAIR OF SPATIAL M-5's COMMING MY WAY ! ONE HAPPY ME.
So everything is "gone"? You will just have a pair of speakers all alone in a room?????? :duh:
Shakey
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I think he is simply referring to an unnecessary surplus... :wink:
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Yeah, I figured that. I was just messing with him.
So jazzman, when do your speakers arrive?
Shakey
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I think 3 to 4 weeks. I will be using a Manley Stingray to power. I also keep one set of speakers ( Spica tc 50's ) for old time sake . Looking forward to hearing them , I have a 12 x 13 room so I think the M-5's will be a perfect fit. I did really loved the Emerald Physics CS 3's , Claytons design. He clams the new design will blow them away. The were the only speaker in that room that made me forget the Maggies. The MG II's were way to big for the room. The Zu's were nice but not quite as present. The OB's do put the music "in "the room. Peace guys and happy listening to you also.
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I have owned Maggie 1.6s with modded xovers and stock 3.5rs. They have their strengths, but ultimately (for me) too many weaknesses. I moved on many years ago and haven't looked back.
Shakey
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I have a pair of M3 Sapphires on order and like you I can't wait to hear them. My M3TM are by far the most unique speakers I have ever had. The M5 and M3 are yet even more unique. In fact the direct wired dome has me so curious that I am just counting the days. Then there are the bass improvements over already very satisfying bass. And also they have what I always wished my M3TM had which is a real wood veneer. I just hope they live up to the excitement as I break them in and hear them.
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I’m curious if I’m the only person wondering about the efficiency trade-off of the M3 Turbo S vs the M3 Sapphire.
The M3 Turbo at 94 dB vs M3 Sapphire at 92 dB might be significant for those of us using low powered amps. I know that every 3 dB increase in volume requires double the wattage. Admittedly, 92 dB efficiency in a speaker is still nice and high, but for those of us with low powered amps, I think it’s something to consider.
Thoughts?
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I have wondered about the drop in efficiency as well. Though compared to my M3TM only 1 db loss in efficiency. And I am using a solid state integrated (60 wpc Ragnarok 1st gen) so at 8 ohms vs 12 ohms I am thinking I will break even. That said the M3TS while even more efficient than the M3TM is 4 ohms and it may not work as well with some tube amps as the M Sapphires at 8 Ohms. Based on Claytons feedback for tubes it should be good match. For low power solid state like a Pass First Watt like the F7 it would probably not play as loud as the M3TS. That said I am thinking it would play plenty loud and play with full bandwidth and staging when playing loud. For lower watt SET tube amps the X3 or X5 are going to be a better match. However at least the M5 and M3 can be biamped and thus making a match to tube amp even better. For example get a Schiit Vidar for the bass and a Tube amp to the dome. I may use and idle 225 wpc NAD 218THX to drive the bass of the M3 Sapphire and my SS integrated to drive the dome. I am considering a Raven Blackhawk as an amp upgrade which may be great biamped. Just some thoughts.
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I have wondered about the drop in efficiency as well. Though compared to my M3TM only 1 db loss in efficiency. And I am using a solid state integrated (60 wpc Ragnarok 1st gen) so at 8 ohms vs 12 ohms I am thinking I will break even. That said the M3TS while even more efficient than the M3TM is 4 ohms and it may not work as well with some tube amps as the M Sapphires at 8 Ohms. Based on Claytons feedback for tubes it should be good match. For low power solid state like a Pass First Watt like the F7 it would probably not play as loud as the M3TS. That said I am thinking it would play plenty loud and play with full bandwidth and staging when playing loud. For lower watt SET tube amps the X3 or X5 are going to be a better match. However at least the M5 and M3 can be biamped and thus making a match to tube amp even better. For example get a Schiit Vidar for the bass and a Tube amp to the dome. I may use and idle 225 wpc NAD 218THX to drive the bass of the M3 Sapphire and my SS integrated to drive the dome. I am considering a Raven Blackhawk as an amp upgrade which may be great biamped. Just some thoughts.
Good question - the new models are actually easier to drive despite being slightly lower in sensitivity due to the virtual lack of crossover components - just an inductor in the bass section - so much less reactive. Your amp can more effectively deliver power into a low reactivity load like this.
Clayton
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One more thing to consider, if I may... It also seems that the new model may not play as raucously loud and clean as the M3TS. I just wonder if the dome has more finesse than balls, for lack of a better phrase. Just keep these things in mind as you think about upgrading. I do like my music very loud and clean at times. Note to ear police: open floor plan and I listen as I go about the house.
I say this with extreme respect of what Spatial has created. I had 10 people from my audio club over for a listen last month and they were impressed to say the least. My favorite comment: “ The more I listen to these (M3 Turbo S), the more I like them”. No small feat- audio club people look for faults more than anything.
I LOVE my M3 Turbo S speakers.
Carry on...
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Some interesting thoughts and something to consider. There could be some trade offs which we will discover as we learn more about the new Sapphires. I know when I play well recorded orchestra, think Telarc Cincinnati Pops, on my M3TM I play it very loud and it really sounds amazing being very powerful yet controlled, open, and with very good instrumental separation cleanly delineated. Good thing there is another 60 day trial on the Sapphires so me and others can be sure about them. I do have high hopes for them and I do hope they have the same great power with yet more transparency and finesse. My curiosity is at a fever pitch. Can't wait to unpack them.
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In my small I am looking for a bit more transparency and the same,small room bass. If it keeps the musicians in the room with me I am a happy camper.
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Notice that the description of the M5 has been updated on the Spatial Website along with the X5 and X3.
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Any update on the arrival of your speakers guys? I'm dying to hear feedback on these new models - the crossoverless design is very appealing to me if it brings the ultimate transparency with it.
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I know , I am going koo,koo. The idea of open baffle with no crossover is too much. I am very much enjoying some time with my old buddies, the Spica TC 50s but I am ready. The Emerald Physics( sold ) CS3's (Clayton's babies ) filled my space with sound like no other. If he has improved on that , ahhhhh .
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Although I only have about 27 hrs on the X5s, last night playing Playboy Jazz after dark II was enjoyable. The presence in the vocals, positions of the musicians and instruments really great. Because of the presence that these speakers have, I can listen at lower volume levels.
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I too have found that I can enjoy the X-3s at lower volumes than I typically play my khorns at.
Shakey
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I too have found that I can enjoy the X-3s at lower volumes than I typically play my khorns at.
Shakey
That's impressive, as the Klipsch are no slouches at low level detail. At least IME.
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In my small I am looking for a bit more transparency and the same,small room bass. If it keeps the musicians in the room with me I am a happy camper.
How big is your room? That is dependent on the model you select from Spatial. I was actually considering the Sapphire M3s, but I'm not 100% sure yet. It's either the M3s or M5s. My room is 12'11"x13'.
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Hi Stargate, Yes I went with the M5 because my room is 12x13x8. I also really like the simplicity of it. I know one woofer 15” will be plenty in that room. This is a dedicated music room so set up just to accept the system. I will be powering through a Manley Stingray iPod. I am hopeful that 20/40 watts of Manley tubes will be plenty. Happy to let you know how it works.
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Yeah, I’ve decided to buy the M5s. It will provide MORE than enough bass in my 13x13 room. :D
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@bbybaudio - Any listening updates? How are they sounding and which speakers have the M5s replaced?
@jazzman463 - Have you received your M5s yet?
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Have about 67 hrs on them. Placed them 8.5 ft apart center to center. Used laser and tape measure to line up toe-in. Mids have more tone and bass is becoming very good. Heil seemed to get better at 40 hrs. My listening position may be too far back at 10 ft, but I prefer this to closer. I know longer listen in ultra linear only in triode mode. May switch out KT150s to try EL34s. Overall these are amazing speakers which only make you sad when you realize how much music you have been missing. Great job Clayton!
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Heil seemed to get better at 40 hrs.
:scratch:
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Have about 67 hrs on them. Placed them 8.5 ft apart center to center. Used laser and tape measure to line up toe-in. Mids have more tone and bass is becoming very good. Heil seemed to get better at 40 hrs. My listening position may be too far back at 10 ft, but I prefer this to closer. I know longer listen in ultra linear only in triode mode. May switch out KT150s to try EL34s. Overall these are amazing speakers which only make you sad when you realize how much music you have been missing. Great job Clayton!
Just to confirm. You are talking about your X5 speakers not the M5?
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Kheidener, M5 should ship by end of Month.
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Yes, commenting on the X5s. Right now have the subwoofer amps turned up past 3/4 to match output of Primaluma Integrated, which is at 32-35 db.
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jazzman463 I look forward to hearing your feedback then. Good luck!
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The X5s replaced Silverline Sonatina IIIs.
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Jazzman,
Did your M-5's show up, and can you provide a report?
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No just finishing up production. I did a gray tint so took a bit longer to flush out. They should ship next week. I will be happy to report on them. I listen about two to three hours a day. 12 X 13 room with a Manley Stingray/Thorns TD 125/SME 3009/ Grado Gold/Lounge Audio phono.
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No just finishing up production. I did a gray tint so took a bit longer to flush out. They should ship next week. I will be happy to report on them. I listen about two to three hours a day. 12 X 13 room with a Manley Stingray/Thorns TD 125/SME 3009/ Grado Gold/Lounge Audio phono.
Sounds really nice. Please post some pics.
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No just finishing up production. I did a gray tint so took a bit longer to flush out. They should ship next week. I will be happy to report on them. I listen about two to three hours a day. 12 X 13 room with a Manley Stingray/Thorns TD 125/SME 3009/ Grado Gold/Lounge Audio phono.
Mine are in production. My room is about the size of yours, so keen to hear your impressions!
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I have had M3 for about a month. I found that first 20-50 hr is critical. Treble relaxes and bass gets fuller.
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Hey Sockpit, the M 5's are shipping today.
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Hey Sockpit, the M 5's are shipping today.
Congrats!
I bugged Clayton this morning with an email, and says mine will ship Monday or Tuesday.
Can't wait to see for myself what all the OB enthusiasm is about!
Best
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I have had M3 for about a month. I found that first 20-50 hr is critical. Treble relaxes and bass gets fuller.
Any insights on the quality of the mid-range, vocals?
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The mid-range on these speakers are great. Btw I have M5 another M3. My room is about 13x20 but the audio system is set up against the long wall so I am sitting about 8ft from the speakers. First 20-30 hr, I thought mid range was a bit edge but it smoothed out quite a bit after 50 hr. I had a few speakers in the past but I don’t do A-B anymore and i can only compare to Gallo 3.1 that I recently sold and Reference 3a Dulcet in my office. M5 is definitely has clearer mid-range and puncher bass. M5 soundstage is much larger than Gallo too. I always thought something is lacking with Gallo but I don’t feel that anymore with M5. I listen to female vocals a lot and m5 is a joy. Dulcets have a different characteristics than M5 since these are bookshelf speakers which I think more vocal-friendly in general. One thing I can say about M5 is that I can listen to M5 without getting fatigued and that is a lot of value to me.
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If These things sound anywhere near as good as the CS 3’s, one of Clayton,s first OB designs, they will be stunning. That speaker was so “real” sounding that at times it scared me . Many times I busted out in laughter thinking the musicians were in the room with me. The only reason I moved on was because because of all of that off board equipment associated with it. Some of the best percussion drumming sounds I have ever heard.
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The mid-range on these speakers are great. Btw I have M5 another M3. My room is about 13x20 but the audio system is set up against the long wall so I am sitting about 8ft from the speakers. First 20-30 hr, I thought mid range was a bit edge but it smoothed out quite a bit after 50 hr. I had a few speakers in the past but I don’t do A-B anymore and i can only compare to Gallo 3.1 that I recently sold and Reference 3a Dulcet in my office. M5 is definitely has clearer mid-range and puncher bass. M5 soundstage is much larger than Gallo too. I always thought something is lacking with Gallo but I don’t feel that anymore with M5. I listen to female vocals a lot and m5 is a joy. Dulcets have a different characteristics than M5 since these are bookshelf speakers which I think more vocal-friendly in general. One thing I can say about M5 is that I can listen to M5 without getting fatigued and that is a lot of value to me.
Agree with these thoughts on vocals with the M3S. This video review of the Spatial Room at CAF has a good vocal demo with the M3S. I agree with the reviewer's conclusions when I hear good recordings. That full palpable detailed bass in this video is what I am getting in my room.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoHakZ7yhvs
Yes as the reviewer points out when broken in the bass does integrate effectively with the rest of the sonic spectrum. I do not know how Clayton was able to make that little mid integrate so effectively with the huge woofer but he did.