[Guy 13]

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
If I did not post on Audio Circle for quite some time, it’s because I don’t have any GR Research projects right now, but don’t worry, it will come.
My next big project is my listening room that will be in the house that I will (Hopefully) build in 2011.
The listening room will be on the roof of our house or on the fifth floor near heaven/paradise…



I did lots of reading on the subject of room acoustic and this is the result of hours of interesting reading on the wonderful world of Internet.
Since I can do whatever I want, because nothing is built yet, I have the choice between plain angled walls and stepped angled walls.




I think both approaches are good, but I would like to have some opinions from members that have more experience than me on that subject.
One small concern is the fact that my chair will be at 2.5 meters from the back wall, I wonder is that’s a problem?
I will round off all four corners and put some absorbing panels on the side walls (If necessary), however, according to what I read, the experts said that very little absorption/reflective panels are required and bass trap are really not necessary because with the angled walls there are no standing waves.
The ceiling will also be angled from 2.44m to 3m.
Of course a thick carpet with also a thick under carpet will cover around 80% of the floor surface.
Any comments, please feel free to jump in, no comments, jump in anyway, even if it’s just to say: HELLO !
Have a nice day.
Guy 13
Note :
Almost forgot, my speakers will be Danny’s V1/V2.
 

[kp93300]

Hu Guy 13,
i think Robert Harleys book has a chapter on designing hi fi room.
I envy your ability to design the room from scratch.
regards
kp93300

[HT cOz]

Hey Guy,

That looks like an incredable plan. 

Is there any way to smooth the walls vs step?  I would research having a hard floor and putting good obsorbtion on the ceiling.  I have read that people like a floor bounce as we always have it but the ceiling bounce is not desirable.

Kind Regards,
Robert

[Guy 13]

Hey Guy,

That looks like an incredable plan. 

Is there any way to smooth the walls vs step?  I would research having a hard floor and putting good obsorbtion on the ceiling.  I have read that people like a floor bounce as we always have it but the ceiling bounce is not desirable.

Kind Regards,
Robert

Hi Robert and all Audio Circle members.
Dont know exactly what you mean by: '' smooth the walls vs step ''
I have two choices, have the walls smooth or have steps. Right now, I don't know which is better. Sorry to ask, but would you please re-phrase that.
The idea of the stepped walls came from many pictures of opera houses I saw on the Internet.
Here in Vietnam, everything is made of concrete (The Vietnamese thermites love the taste of wood) and for the floor it will be covered with ceramic, but I will add extra thick carpet. For the ceiling I have not decided what I will do, but I might install a few absortion panels...
More suggestions and ideas ?  Throw them my way, they are all welcome.
Guy 13

[jriggy]

This should be interesting... I have always wanted to hear about a room being built this way.
If this was posted in the Acoustics Circle Im sure it would generate a great thread over time for you. There are some very knowledgeable folks for this.

[nickd]

Hi Guy,

Nice room,

Your listening chair may be a little far from the back wall. My room (4.4m wide x 6.4M deep X 2.9 M high) is the same shape as yours and my seat is 1.5m from the back wall, unfortunatley there is a bass null there. You may end up a little shy on the bass with your seat out in the middle of the room.

I was warned not to slope the celing as it can create un-even response. I took the advise and built the celing flat and it does sound quite good. The best I have had to date in there was Dannys LS9 and the Ephipany 20/21 with RBH subs. Super V's are in progress for the next step.

[Zerogravity]

Thats Awesome! I see you have the prototypical elongated rectangle that is the ideal design for acoustics. I also see some jagged lines on the side, is that because room size changes or its not drawn straight, might want to smooth it out there so nothing bounces off in crazy directions. Wow that whole building is your house huh, thats nice!

[Rocket_Ronny]

Hi Guy:

What is more important to me than non parallel walls is having a large room. Make is as big as you can.

12 feet wide is way to narrow for me, and to have the speakers that close to each other, well, why bother. Just saying.

Minimum ideal room would be 16' wide x 24 feet long. Then you have something. Although 18' x 26' is better. 

Slope the ceiling, although not all in one direction like I see in the picture, but have the peak offset from center a bit.

Glad to see you are able to do your own room. But I have to ask, how do your neighbors feel about the loud music, or do you own the whole building?


Rocket_ BIG and  W  I  D  E  _Ronny

[JLM]

This looks alot like Cardas "Golden Trapagon" but be careful modeling a relatively small space after larger spaces (bass loading and reverb times are vastly different).

Yes the two most important rules of thumb for a good sounding space: big and proper proportions. 

I'd think twice about chamfering the corners and instead would design with commerically available diffusion/absorption in mind (the corners make for effective bass absorption treatment).

Off topic: the aethestics of a space shaped like this can be very difficult to live with (like a carnival fun house of unsettling perspectives).

[chlorofille]

Hi G_13,

Amazing house. 5 Storeys ? 

[Guy 13]

Hu Guy 13,
i think Robert Harleys book has a chapter on designing hi fi room.
I envy your ability to design the room from scratch.
regards
kp93300

Hi kp93299, sorry kp93300.
Do not envy my ability to desing a listening room from scratch, because I don't really have any abilities in that field, I am using information found on the web, I am really not an expert on designing listening room, that's why I am asking for opinions and advices from the Audio Circle members.
However starting from scratch, might have some advantages...
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

This should be interesting... I have always wanted to hear about a room being built this way.
If this was posted in the Acoustics Circle Im sure it would generate a great thread over time for you. There are some very knowledgeable folks for this.

Hi jriggy and all Audio Circle members.
(Another funny nick name...)
You can be sure that I will share whatever findings I have with this listening room project.
Since the first day I've started to listent to my GR Research V1 and V2 in my untreated echo living room, I realize that a well designed and acousticly treated listening room is VERY important and count for at least 50% of the good results, room acoustic is more important than what many audiophiles think.
I will have a look at Acoustic Circle to see if I can learn something there, however, I love to post on Danny's site and I will stay here. Friendly guys and Danny is very understanding when he let me post on his site.
I will be back with more...
Guy 13 

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,

Nice room,

Your listening chair may be a little far from the back wall. My room (4.4m wide x 6.4M deep X 2.9 M high) is the same shape as yours and my seat is 1.5m from the back wall, unfortunatley there is a bass null there. You may end up a little shy on the bass with your seat out in the middle of the room.

I was warned not to slope the celing as it can create un-even response. I took the advise and built the celing flat and it does sound quite good. The best I have had to date in there was Dannys LS9 and the Ephipany 20/21 with RBH subs. Super V's are in progress for the next step.

Hi Nick and all Audio Circle members.
Yes, I know, my listing chair is too far from the back wall, I will see what I can do about that when everything is built and I have move in. It's easy to move around a chair and a pair of speakers.
Your listening room dimensions are pretty much the same as my futur listening room, do you mind sharing with me and all Audio Circle members some pictures. PLEASE !
I found on Cardas web site the recommendation about the sloped ceiling, now with what you say, I wonder if I should go that way or your way, of course a flat (Not angeled) ceiling is easier to build.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us and don't forget to post some pictures of your listening room.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Thats Awesome! I see you have the prototypical elongated rectangle that is the ideal design for acoustics. I also see some jagged lines on the side, is that because room size changes or its not drawn straight, might want to smooth it out there so nothing bounces off in crazy directions. Wow that whole building is your house huh, thats nice!

Hi Zerogravity and all Audio Circle members.
(I like your nick name...)
The jagged lines are drawn that way on purpose, it to mimick the walls of a concert hall, however, I am now re-considering that way of doing and maybe go with straight angled walls.
That five floor building will cost us around 100,000 USD.
Here in Vietnam the Vietnamese workers works for peanuts... (Ha, ha....)
A construction worker works for less than 10 USD a day, not an hour, 10 USD per day, no wonder I can afford to build such a big house.
However, the ground floor will be rented to pay for the water, electricity and municipal taxes ( Estimated at 50 USD per year.)
By the way, it will probably take 3 to 4 months to build that palace...
Guy 13 

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy:

What is more important to me than non parallel walls is having a large room. Make is as big as you can.

12 feet wide is way to narrow for me, and to have the speakers that close to each other, well, why bother. Just saying.

Minimum ideal room would be 16' wide x 24 feet long. Then you have something. Although 18' x 26' is better. 

Slope the ceiling, although not all in one direction like I see in the picture, but have the peak offset from center a bit.

Glad to see you are able to do your own room. But I have to ask, how do your neighbors feel about the loud music, or do you own the whole building?


Rocket_ BIG and  W  I  D  E  _Ronny

Hi Rocket Ronny or Ronny the Rocket !
... and all Audio Circle members.
I thought my listenming room was big, so you think it's a little on the small side...
That's why I posted this tread.
I like to have opinions of other audiophiles, it make me look at this project from a different perpective and at different angles.
If I make my listening room larger, then I have to cancel/illiminate the kitchenette and the toilet... Not really something I want to do, as I want the whole floor (Roof/penthouse) to be my living quarters...
Are you suggesting that I go for a cathedral ceiling ?
My wife and I will have the whole fourth floor to us and we will be above my wife's family and since the floors are made of 12" armored concrete, no noise go thru floor/ceiling.
Im my present house, the living room/listening room is just below/under our bed room and even with 105db music, can hardly hear the music.
Since my listeing room will be on the roof, I won't have any neighbour close by and they won't be nearby to bother me with their Karaoke at 11pm.
Yes, my wife and I will pay for the whole building, however, the land belong to her family and cannot be sold to anyone.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

This looks alot like Cardas "Golden Trapagon" but be careful modeling a relatively small space after larger spaces (bass loading and reverb times are vastly different).

Yes the two most important rules of thumb for a good sounding space: big and proper proportions. 

I'd think twice about chamfering the corners and instead would design with commerically available diffusion/absorption in mind (the corners make for effective bass absorption treatment).

Off topic: the aethestics of a space shaped like this can be very difficult to live with (like a carnival fun house of unsettling perspectives).

Hi JLM and all Audio Circle mmebers.
Yes, you are right, this desing was taken from Cardas "Golden Trapagon.
Thanks for the warning about trying to design a small space, I will look at my design again.
I am trying to design my listening room in a way that I won't need to use/install bass traps, reflective and absorbing panels, not to save on money, but because I just don't like them. However, I will see...
Thanks for sharing your opinion with me and all Audio Circle members.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Hi G_13,

Amazing house. 5 Storeys ? 

Hi chlorofille and all Audio Circle members.
Yes, it's a huge house with many floors, but it's not all to us.
The ground floor will be rented and a small portion will be a warehouse for my wife's business.
The mezzanine will be for the visitors, relatives from the USA and Canada.
The first floor will be the living room and kitchen for my in laws.
The second floor will be the bedrooms for my in laws.
The whole third floor will be for my wife and I.
The fourth floor or the roof or the penthouse, will be for me:
Listening room, kitchenette, toilet and my office and a small place to do my daily moring 20 minutes exercises.
We will have a seperate stair way for the potential customers that will come to my listening room to buy my V1 and other audio stuff from my Audio 13 company. That's why the acoustic of my futur listening room is very important. I want my audio stuff to sound good...
Guy 13.

[Guy 13]

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
Today (Saturday) I had or I created some spare time and I did some web surfing and found some interesting reading about acoustic treatment for my future listening room.
I want to be well informed before I give to the architect my hand sketch to be integrated into the house's blue prints, because I sure don’t want to screw up the design of the acoustic of my (Close to perfect) future listening room.
I have a question and/or looking for some opinions from the members that are more knowledgeable than me with listening room acoustic.
Behind my GR Research V1 speakers on the smaller wall, I will have some shelving with my Niteshade Audio amplifier, my Rega Apollo CD player, my Rega P-3 turntable and some other miscellaneous audio stuff on them, I will also put some CD, LPs and books so that I will act as a large diffuser. The whole wall will be covered with shelves and stuff...
Does that make sense to you acoustic guru?
Will it do a good job at diffusing?
Unless I am completely wrong, which won’t be the first time and also not the last time, in my opinion, I think you need some reflection/diffusion behind the Open Baffle speakers.
Once more, waiting for some advices from the audio smart cookies or more politely, from the Audio Circle members.
Have a nice weekend.
Guy 13
Note:
As long as Danny won’t mind me posting my stuff on his site,
I will continue.
I would sure like Danny to jump in and write a few words about what he thinks of my project, but I know he’s busy making up good deals for the Audio Circle members…
Note:
I saw that up to know I have 400+ views for my topic, why there's not more Audio Circle members that jump in and share with us their opinions.
Are they shy or what?

[jtwrace]

I think you need to discuss this project with some professionals.  GIK can get you started with some ideas....  This topic is probably best suited for the Acoustic Circle.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=73.0

[TomS]

I think you need to discuss this project with some professionals.  GIK can get you started with some ideas....  This topic is probably best suited for the Acoustic Circle.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=73.0

Absolutely agree.  See the threads by Arthurs and Ted_b on using the services of a pro too.  Reasonable consultation cost compared to construction costs and they can do it all remotely. 

Bpape (GIK) and Ethan Winer have, of course, always been invaluable sources of free advice, even if you choose not to use their products (I use both).  They have tons of real world experience to bring that may end of saving you a lot of money too.