SP2 & HDMI

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Thunder

SP2 & HDMI
« on: 29 Dec 2006, 07:35 pm »
James, when do you expect SP2 to accept an HDMI input to support new lossless audio formats? Even HDMI 1.1 is a good start to support LPCM assuming 1.3 can be supported in the future with firmware update. I realize that if a hidef player has analog out, it can be accomodated that way but not all sources have this.

When HDMI is supported, are you planning on redirecting, without processing, the video signal through HDMI out so that video signal can be sent to video processor or display?   

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #1 on: 29 Dec 2006, 07:59 pm »
HI Thunder,

We have been discussing how we will deal with HDMI and at this point we assume a pass-through to allow video to be passed on.

We are going to wait for 1.3 before we address it.

james

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #2 on: 29 Dec 2006, 08:06 pm »
Thanks for the quick response James. Any guess on timing?

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #3 on: 29 Dec 2006, 08:24 pm »
I would say 10-12 months.

james


assafl

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #4 on: 2 Jan 2007, 06:09 am »
Good job for sweating out the short lived iLink phase, but I think HDMI is a winner: I would like to vote for a HDMI upgrade sooner (perhaps as part of a seperate Video switchbox).

HDMI 1.3 is already here. Sony PS3 has HDMI 1.3, which apart from Dolby DTS and Uncompressed bitstream - also works with the SACD multichannel capability.

My SP1.7 is waiting for it, and I see others waiting for it as well.

-al

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #5 on: 2 Jan 2007, 01:17 pm »
Good job for sweating out the short lived iLink phase, but I think HDMI is a winner: I would like to vote for a HDMI upgrade sooner (perhaps as part of a seperate Video switchbox).

HDMI 1.3 is already here. Sony PS3 has HDMI 1.3, which apart from Dolby DTS and Uncompressed bitstream - also works with the SACD multichannel capability.

My SP1.7 is waiting for it, and I see others waiting for it as well.

-al



Well as I said before there are no 1.3 chips available as yet for small manufacturers and it will be a while after that before we can address HDMI. There are even rumors of the HDMI connector changing because it is such a poor connector as is.

james

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #6 on: 2 Jan 2007, 02:14 pm »



Well as I said before there are no 1.3 chips available as yet for small manufacturers and it will be a while after that before we can address HDMI. There are even rumors of the HDMI connector changing because it is such a poor connector as is.

james

[/quote]

James, can't you gte started with HDMI 1.1 like Anthem and Halcro pre/pros have so that LPCM can be transmitted to the processor and at a later date, move to 1.3?

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #7 on: 2 Jan 2007, 04:44 pm »



Well as I said before there are no 1.3 chips available as yet for small manufacturers and it will be a while after that before we can address HDMI. There are even rumors of the HDMI connector changing because it is such a poor connector as is.

james




James, can't you gte started with HDMI 1.1 like Anthem and Halcro pre/pros have so that LPCM can be transmitted to the processor and at a later date, move to 1.3?

[/quote]


We just feel there is no sense going down that road, given the time and resources it would take, when that technology would become obsolete shortly anyway.

james


brucek

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #8 on: 2 Jan 2007, 04:50 pm »
Quote
James, can't you gte started with HDMI 1.1 like Anthem and Halcro pre/pros have so that LPCM can be transmitted to the processor and at a later date, move to 1.3?

How many owners would be willing to pay ~$1000 to have their processors modified to a outdated spec, only to have to pay again and re-send it in again once the 1.3 parts become available?

Not me. :)

brucek

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #9 on: 2 Jan 2007, 04:53 pm »
Quote
James, can't you gte started with HDMI 1.1 like Anthem and Halcro pre/pros have so that LPCM can be transmitted to the processor and at a later date, move to 1.3?

How many owners would be willing to pay ~$1000 to have their processors modified to a outdated spec, only to have to pay again and re-send it in again once the 1.3 parts become available?

Not me. :)

brucek

Glad you're such an expert at what's involved in supporting 1.3 ... nothing like pulling numbers out of the air ...

JeffO

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #10 on: 2 Jan 2007, 05:09 pm »
Waiting to upgrade my SP1.7 until HDMI input becomes available.  I was hoping for 6 - 8 months.   

James, in another thread you mentioned you were considering two inputs, one passthru and one straight input, is this still your thinking?

I agree with waiting for 1.3 but looking at the back of BR and HDDVD cases and seeing PCM and DTS-MA is killing me.  James, will you be supporting the new codecs or just processing the PCM signal? 

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #11 on: 2 Jan 2007, 05:14 pm »
Hi,

We will be supporting the new codecs.

james

brucek

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #12 on: 2 Jan 2007, 05:22 pm »
Quote
Glad you're such an expert at what's involved in supporting 1.3 ... nothing like pulling numbers out of the air ...

Sorry, I should have referenced my comment to this thread.

Where this Q&A took place.

Quote
James we know that you dont have a crystal ball, but would you say the HDMI upgrade would be in the hundreds or a thousand plus?  I am obviously not speaking about the cost of the SPV just the SP2 upgrade.  Obviously no one can hold you to it, but I would just like to know a ball park so that I can make another buying decision. 

Thanks,

Dwight


Assuming a completely different digital board I would assume around the $1000 range.

james

brucek

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #13 on: 2 Jan 2007, 06:39 pm »
Quote
Glad you're such an expert at what's involved in supporting 1.3 ... nothing like pulling numbers out of the air ...

Sorry, I should have referenced my comment to this thread.

Where this Q&A took place.

Quote
James we know that you dont have a crystal ball, but would you say the HDMI upgrade would be in the hundreds or a thousand plus?  I am obviously not speaking about the cost of the SPV just the SP2 upgrade.  Obviously no one can hold you to it, but I would just like to know a ball park so that I can make another buying decision. 

Thanks,

Dwight


Assuming a completely different digital board I would assume around the $1000 range.

james

brucek

Fair enough, thanks for the reference. Couple of points to make though:
1. The cost of migrating from HDMI 1.1 to 1.3 may be quite a bit lower than a $1000 - not sure. Would welcome comments on this James, assuming you considered this scenario.
2. The value of HDMI 1.1 is that you can send LOSSLESS audio through it LPCM, you not need 1.3 and anlog out. This way you can choose a Hi-Def player that does not have analog out. In addition, it supports DVDA (need HDMI 1.2 to support SACD). Others may not see value in this but I certainly do, as well as some other high end manufacturers. 

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #14 on: 2 Jan 2007, 06:59 pm »
Ok thanks for all the feedback - we will certainly look at all the possibilities as we move along.

james

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #15 on: 3 Jan 2007, 02:44 am »
Hi,

We will be supporting the new codecs.

james


In case you didn't see this Dec 28 Announcement about new DTS codecs, see below - Planning to use one of these IC's James? Exciting times ahead with hi-rez audio!!!


DTS, Inc. (NASDAQ: DTSI) today announced that 10 major integrated circuit (IC) manufacturers have licensed, DTS-HD Master Audio and / or DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS' high definition multi-channel audio technologies for the next generation optical disc formats, Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. The manufacturers will incorporate DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio into chips they are currently designing for their customers in the consumer electronics industry that are producing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players, A/V receivers and Home Theater In-A-Box components, as well as the PC and automobile markets.

In addition to DTS-HD technology, the IC manufacturers have also licensed DTS-HD LBR (Low Bit Rate) for Secondary / Sub Audio and /or the DTS encoder for transcoder usage within the next generation HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players. The new IC licensees are:

* Analog Devices, Inc.
* Broadcom Corporation
* Cheertek, Inc.
* LSI Logic Corporation
* Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
* MediaTek Incorporation
* NEC Electronics Corporation
* Renesas Technology Corp.
* Sigma Designs, Inc.
* Sunplus Technology Co., Ltd.

"The overwhelming interest on the part of the IC manufacturers to incorporate DTS-HD technologies into their chips speaks to the demand for high definition DTS-HD audio to match the high definition video of the next generation products," said Brian Towne, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Consumer Division at DTS. "The feedback from the industry has been extremely positive, and we expect to see many new players and A/V receivers in the next year that feature our HD audio technology."

About DTS-HD Master Audio™
DTS-HD Master Audio delivers sound that is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master. It can deliver audio at very high variable bit rates which are significantly higher than standard DVDs. DTS-HD Master Audio can provide up to 7.1 audio channels at 96k sampling frequency / 24-bit depths that are identical to the original. The DTS-HD Master Audio bit stream also contains the DTS 1.5 Mbps core for compatibility with existing DTS-enabled home theater systems, and delivery of up to 6.1 channels of sound at twice the resolution found on most standard DVDs.

About DTS-HD High Resolution Audio™
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio can deliver up to 7.1 channels of sound that is virtually indistinguishable from the original soundtrack. It provides audio at high constant bit rates superior to standard DVDs to produce outstanding quality. It can carry up to 7.1 channels at 96k sampling frequency / 24-bit depth resolution, thereby allowing content creators to provide rich, high definition audio on content where disc space may not allow for DTS-HD Master Audio. The DTS-HD High Resolution Audio bit stream also contains the DTS 1.5 Mbps core for compatibility with existing DTS-enabled home theater systems, and delivery of up to 6.1 channels of sound at twice the resolution found on most standard DVDs.

assafl

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #16 on: 3 Jan 2007, 06:49 am »
Even better if the SP3  :wink: does the HDMI switching.

Imagine an AV world in which a preamp had only 5 cables in the back... I could probably finance the upgrade by selling all those crappy copper RCA cables!

assafl

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #17 on: 3 Jan 2007, 07:06 am »
A few sites have pictures of the PS3 board: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

The chip in the Center top is a Silicon Image's VastLane SiI 9133 HDMI Transmitter chip.

The chips been available since August. Surely Silicon Image can provide samples...

(As you can tell, HDMI is important to some of us...).

Thunder

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #18 on: 5 Jan 2007, 05:26 pm »
FYI, regarding new audio formats, I contacted Esoteric about their HI-Def plans with their players given that I'm a big fan of their transport mechanisim. He stated that they are in discussion with both camps but are not going to invest R&D time and expense until there is either a clear winner of this format war or when a universal chipset is developed that plays both formats.
 
He said that there are two different companies developing a universal chip set that will play both formats.  If and when that comes about, ESOTERIC will bring a high definition player to market.
 

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #19 on: 5 Jan 2007, 07:00 pm »
FYI, regarding new audio formats, I contacted Esoteric about their HI-Def plans with their players given that I'm a big fan of their transport mechanisim. He stated that they are in discussion with both camps but are not going to invest R&D time and expense until there is either a clear winner of this format war or when a universal chipset is developed that plays both formats.
 
He said that there are two different companies developing a universal chip set that will play both formats.  If and when that comes about, ESOTERIC will bring a high definition player to market.
 


I fully understand their feelings.  This may be a 1st step towards those universal players:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07004/751258-96.stm

"
But at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas next week, at least one hardware provider, LG Electronics Co., is expected to showcase DVD players that work with either technology. Hewlett-Packard Co. will also have products that support both formats in the marketplace this year, a source close to the company says. Others are expected to follow suit."