Analog-Tape-Can-Never-Be-HD

James Tanner · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 11:27 am »

Yes I have to admit when I hear about all the reasons why a particular technology can't work I am surprised when I sit down and listen it does not force me to go screaming from the room

James

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 12:50 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 19 Feb 2012, 11:57 pm

This is an illusion. Everything in the universe is "digital", quantized.

For playback, it's merely of case of vinyl still being competitive, but days are numbered.

Rclark- You are an egghead. Have you no romance? No disagreement about the days being numbered. As soon as listeners from my generation go bye-bye, analog goes bye-bye, accept for a few art lovers, perhaps. I had a Sony player once that could drive by active speakers direct. Nothing else in the line. Playback was clean as a whistle with pinpoint detail. Very noticable when my preamp was in the line, but somethin was missing. Only thing I could come up with to give it a name was feeling. Come to think of it, it was much like my experience mentioned above and my friend's gear is very recent and much more expensive. At that session I had totally forgotten about what I'm sayin here. I think digital fans listen with their brains and I must be listening with my body. I play CD's still, but I just can't for long periods

.

srb · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 03:56 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 21 Feb 2012, 12:50 pm

I play CD's still, but I just can't for long periods .

You probably need to upgrade the digital source from the current DVD player and DAC to something more capable, as there has been some improvement in the last dozen years. Not saying you still won't prefer analog vinyl, but you would likely find the digital a bit richer, smoother and listenable for longer periods.

Steve

*Scotty* · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 06:14 pm »

Rclark thinks the universe is digital because he hasn't encountered Schrodinger's Wave Equation.
Shrodinger's differential equation encases the wavefunction of the of the quantum system also called the quantum state or state vector. The wavefunction is the most complete description that can be given to a physical system within the standard interpretation of quantum mechanics.
The solutions to Schrödinger's equation not only describe molecular, atomic, and subatomic systems, but in addition macroscopic systems as well, and quite possibly even the whole universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger_equation
http://online.redwoods.cc.ca.us/DEPTS/science/chem/storage/Schrod/
He is also unaware of the axiom of Wave–particle duality, that all particles exhibit both wave and particle properties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality
It may be only semantics but I think Rclark will re-discover the romance, if he lost it,when he realizes that the universe is in fact not "digital" but a wavefunction.
Scotty

Rclark · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 08:38 pm »

Schrodinger is old school. The current state of physics states that the universe operates much like a digital computer, at the lowest levels all just like the pixels on a screen.

i read this stuff as a hobbyist, enthusiast.

A soundwave cannot exist without particles. your record player is ultimately just a really good digital player. There is no analogue. Its not real.

Rclark · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 08:40 pm »

The romance for me is in hearing the music, not in ogling my audio rack so much. Do I wish I had a nice vinyl setup, oh heck yeah! But I dont and have no practical interest in investing in one.

For me the target is on digital players like BDP-1.

Laundrew · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 21 Feb 2012, 08:38 pm

Schrodinger is old school.

This probably makes his cat feel much better....

Be well...

Rclark · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 09:13 pm »

Haha yes, Schrodingers cat.. I wish I had a brain like his. I'm also fan of Bohr and Penrose.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 09:52 pm »

Nice, fellas. Good reading to me. First time I took LSD many years ago I saw matter turn to energy and it was in the form of waves thruout my sphere of availablity which I thought at the time was endless. Did I miss something cause pixels were nowhere to be found? Digital is a mechanical thing, man, it just ain't natural.

Digital must have gotten better than my old stuff, I have no doubt about that. Thanks, SRB. But, I'm not just comparing to my stuff. With better gear I imagine I could be better fooled, but I doubt for very long. Not so long as I maintained an analog source nearby. Inspite of all that, I'm just talking about my personal enjoyment. Nothing more, really, and to entertain. Rclark, you inspire me

.

Rclark · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 10:07 pm »

Lol

. All I'm saying is that what you think is this organic, smelly, natural thing, fundamentally, is no different from digital playback and it will be cracked if it hasn't already been.

Seems like hires has levelled the field, no?

Technology marches on, uh, maaan

*Scotty* · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 11:09 pm »

Nothing in the "new" school viewpoint invalidates Schrodinger's equation or wave-particle duality.
We deal with both waves and particles on a macroscopic level. The mirror in my 15in. dob is corrected to better than 1/8 wave at 545 nanometers. It reflects light waves and the eyepieces refract the light waves. Of course my retina reacts to photons.
The point is that much of the time we exploit the wave side of the duality at a macroscopic level in our daily lives.
Vinyl is no exception.

Scotty

Rclark · « **Reply #31 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 11:30 pm »

Wow... Sounds like you have a nice telescope. I have a decent Newtonian. One day I will have a large one like yours for deep space photography, with computer mount.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #32 on:** 21 Feb 2012, 11:40 pm »

I use a Televue binoviewer with an optical corrector to bring the F5 telescope to focus without vignetting. If I was going to proselytize about anything it would be about binoviewing. One pseudo-3D
view of the surface of the Moon will get you hooked.
Scotty

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 02:15 am »

"Seems like hires has levelled the field, no?" Not that I have been able to tell, so far, Clarkster. What I was listening to early in the conversation was all out high res of an album I had heard previously with a quality analog front end in the same room. To use a visual analogy, it came across to me like a fine lithograph comparatively. I intend to give it another shot, tho. My old digital front end is not without some virtues mind you, it's just that my old analog front end is richer to me in all the ways that make listening to music beautiful.

Rclark · « **Reply #34 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 02:22 am »

Well, I can only defer to your experience, but others have reported the opposite. Of course it seems not all high res is the real deal.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #35 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 03:02 am »

Jim,the thing you have to bear in mind is that you are not listening to just the digital medium but also to the DAC and analogue gain stage that makes it possible to recreate an analogue signal from the digital information.
At the very least it is possible that the gain stage in your phono preamp is better than the one in your DAC.
Scotty

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 03:59 am »

Thanks, Scott, you too, Rclark. I'm going to visit with the owner/designer of Silver Circle Audio on Thursday and listen to his system. I may try and take something I have on both vinyl and digital just to see if my experience holds up for a second time, but this is the first time I've been his guest so I'll feel my way along. Harry Pearson has three Silver Circle 5.0 power conditioners in his system and the 5.0 has received some kind of award in TAS' most recent, I think, issue. I feel happy to have just one of our Dave's UberBUSS. The 5.0's are five grand apiece.

Rclark · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 05:38 am »

Damn! 15k just in conditioning, wow!

Mike Nomad · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Feb 2012, 12:58 pm »

+1 on Jim's sentiment: Wonderful reading. What I am seeing (reading > hearing) at the moment brings a smile: To dig into what is being said re: particle & wave theories, it appears that the back and forth is over the arrangement of particles, not their existence. Quantum audio would be cool: 0, 1, 0 & 1, not 0, not 1, etc... If I get the format sorted out, remember you "heard" it here first. Sort of.

It strikes me as very similar to the...fundamental difference between Western and Middle Eastern religious thought. If there is one thing to be said about us audiophiles, we do have a pursuit that seems to be (at times) religious in nature. Stopping here. I've danced with the AC Acceptable Subject Matter train long enough.

vinyl_lady · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Feb 2012, 09:17 pm »

I think this is one of those different strokes for different folks topics. I have a pretty good digital front end with an Oppo 83SE with the ModWright tube mod on the analog output stage (my former digital front end was a Denon 3910 as a transport into a moded Musical Fidelity X-DACv8). I have heard some excellent computer-based hi rez digital front ends at RMAF paired excellent DACs, pre's and power amps and played through some of the best speakers made and I have yet to hear a digital set up that exceeds the musical enjoyment I get from my vinyl front end. Digital playback always seems dry to me without the emotional engagement I feel when I listen to vinyl. For me, the effort of cleaning and taking care of vinyl and putting it on the TT, etc is more than worth it compared to digital. So much so that I listen to vinyl at least 95% of the time. Lou Hinkley (Daedalus Aduio) has been trying to get me to add a computer based digital hi rez playback to my system and I continue to tell him I have no desire. IMO, the highest quality hi rez just can't compete with vinyl. I know others may feel differently, and that's cool. As I said at the beginning, different strokes for different folks.