AudioCircle

Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => Ender's Game => Topic started by: Rclark on 11 Jun 2013, 07:06 am

Title: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 11 Jun 2013, 07:06 am

Ps4 is $100 cheaper (the Xbox One has all its money in the very, very sophisticated Kinect 2.0 camera), far more powerful (perhaps by twice -better hardware decisions), has no packed in camera (Xbox One has a camera that is mandatory, always connected online, can see you in the total darkness, and has stereo microphones, and can even tell what brand of jeans you're wearing, and can even get your heart rate by reading the capillaries on your face... yeah, sounds like fun.)

PS4 is the more powerful hardware by a mile. Ask me if curious.

Far more games, more developer support, has a 4K movie service on the way as well.

The response on the internet as E3 closes is fairly unanimous. PS4.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 12 Jun 2013, 04:31 am
And preordered. I'll let you know how she runs  8)

Hoping I can use it as my file based music player as well.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: jarcher on 13 Jun 2013, 05:37 am
The $100 difference is not really the deal-breaker for me : we all know that they'll be duking it out price-wise near from the get go, if nothing else in special "packages". And the performance specs don't seem that disimilar to think the PS4 titles are going to substantially play better nor look / sound better.

To me the big Xbox deal-breaker is all the DRM BS.  I've been a fan / owner of the XBOX 360 vs the PS3 - among other reasons because of the comfort of the controller, and initially more & better titles that I wanted to play.  But I've never bought a new game @ $60, and don't plan to now, and I'm not going through all of MSFT's hoops to buy / play used games. Particularly when the old console will not be backwards compatible am I going to play full retail for new games.

And though I can understand MSFT wanting to make the XBOX One appeal to the distracted generation that wants to facebook / surf the web / listen to music AND play a game at the same time, I really want a game console primarily to be about playing a GAME.  You can't get the distracted generation's nose away from their smartphones / tablets anyway - so why try?

P.s. Having a 4K movie service - whether via netflix or Sony - would be a bonus for me w/ the PS4.  Unless they come out w/ 4K blu ray players, don't see how else we will get 4K content.  All that is mute until 4K tv sets / projectors are reasonable cost, but given the pace set by the original HD sets, that could be in as little as a few years.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 13 Jun 2013, 08:59 pm
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 13 Jun 2013, 09:30 pm
I think I'll pass on the launch systems. Might even wait until the GenII systems comes out, just in case they've got wrinkles.
Mostly it's the money. If I get one, I'll have to get my son one too. With the cost of two systems, a game each, and some sales tax you're getting pretty close to $1000.

But I do drool over BF4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIa_7SivM4k
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: jarcher on 13 Jun 2013, 09:35 pm
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Yes - the points you make is what I mean by DRM. And the whole Kinnect thing is creeping people out. I think the press and public consensus is that these issues - which are easily correctable by msft - is what's giving the clear victory to Sony.

The hardware stats are favoring the ps4 - but will be interesting to see if the game developers can make full use of it such that it is a noticeable advantage vs Xbox.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 13 Jun 2013, 10:27 pm
Well, they are both Jaguar APU's, but the PS4's is much better. And instead of being hamstrung by old school slow memory and Esram built on the chip (which has been done for decades), the PS4 just has super high bandwidth unified GDDR5 and no on chip ram. 176 GB/sec versus 60 GB/sec, so that performance gives the PS4 100% access to the 1.84 Tflops in game.

The Xbox One only has 90% access to its 1.2 Tflops. Potentially 6-700 Gflops less performance and slower bandwidth.

Here is an example of the PS4 and what's to come:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAiNUUEFao -all realtime.

pretty spectacular. But yeah, I'm with you, the Xbox, on top of being less powerful and more expensive, has much more going on that will cripple it. I can't believe they thought we all wanted what they have on "offer".

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: HT cOz on 14 Jun 2013, 01:40 am
This is far from over or cut and dry. MSFT added 300,000 servers to Xbox live to handle graphics fuctions for the console in the cloud.

I've been with Xbox from the start and will stay. Here's to hoping the new creepy camera provides hours of fun play with the kids. Different strokes for different folks.   :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 14 Jun 2013, 03:45 am
This is far from over or cut and dry. MSFT added 300,000 servers to Xbox live to handle graphics fuctions for the console in the cloud.

I've been with Xbox from the start and will stay. Here's to hoping the new creepy camera provides hours of fun play with the kids. Different strokes for different folks.   :thumb:

Marketing fluff. Most of those servers are virtual and besides most people have a 5MB / sec, fluctuating connection as is. Not a whole lot you can do with that. Their one "cloud" game has nothing but race car ai being done online. The idea that you're going to get this massive performance boost is marketing and a distant reality, nothing meaningful now.

Sony opted to build a more powerful, gimmick free device that doesn't require the internet. They do now own Gaikai, a cloud service of their own, but will be using it for applications that are actually useful today, not 10 years from now.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: MaxCast on 14 Jun 2013, 11:12 am
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Deal breaker??  I'd say, "you can flat out kiss my a$$, xbox."  Now excuse me while I go cover my isight camera...
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: TF1216 on 14 Jun 2013, 02:43 pm
I read in an article "...Sony has worked to carefully balance the two processors to provide maximum graphics power of 1.843 teraFLOPS at an 800Mhz clock speed while still leaving enough room for computational tasks. "  Can someone please explain exactly what this means? 

Does it mean that the system (if had to) can switch back and forth 8 million times between the two processors to complete 1.8 trillions floating-point operations each second?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 14 Jun 2013, 03:25 pm
It means it's really fast.  :dunno:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Vapor Audio on 14 Jun 2013, 03:42 pm
Serious question - how long before Microsoft capitulates and allows the NSA to watch XBONE owners through their camera's 24/7? 

The current generation of consoles is PS3 for gamers, Xbox for people who aren't.  It sure appears as though that's going to continue with the next generation.  Msft has way too much stuff built in that's going to piss off tech savvy people, licensing and privacy issues.  Sony just concentrates on the hardware, which gamers will love but others won't care about. 

We have an Xbox and a PS3 right now.  I play the PS3 almost exclusively, the only reason the Xbox gets fired up is when guests/parents are over and they want to bowl or dance. 
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 14 Jun 2013, 03:53 pm
You mean >> THIS << (http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/07/new-xbox-by-nsa-partner-microsoft-will-watch-you-247/#ixzz2VYZSDzox)??  :?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 14 Jun 2013, 05:18 pm
It means it's really fast.  :dunno:

Both consoles use an AMD designed APU, which is a large chip that has both the CPU and GPU built in together on the same chip die, which eliminates bottlenecks. In older systems, or in PCs, you have the CPU over here, and the GPU way over here, and they communicate over busses. This gets rid of that for more efficiency.

The PS4 version is also designed so that CPU type stuff, compute and physics, can be shared instantly in the on-die GPU and the GPU portion is also designed to assist in these tasks, which will allow for a lot of cool things to happen on screen in ways not seen before.

The main differences we know of so far is the Xbox version is slower, and has a large portion of its APU taken up by 32 megabytes of on board chip ram, which is a tiny amount, but very fast, and placed there to boost the performance of its slow-by-comparison main ram, which is the older DDR3 type.

The on board chip ram also makes programming much more complicated than the PS4.

The PS4 went with 8GB GDDR5 ram, extremely fast, and just blows the xbox away. So fast they don't need the old on-chip ram band aid. So instead of on-chip ram, they increased the performance of the APU, by giving it 18 Compute Units to the Xbox's 12, and 32 Rendering units to the Xbox's 16.

So far and away Sony has the better hardware.

Both have the same amount of main ram, 8GB, but Sony's is much higher performance, and the PS4 gets to use more of it. On the xbox they are trying to create a device that will take over your living room and is more designed to be a fancy cable box more than a games player. The xbox runs THREE operating systems, Xbox live, Windows 8, Internet Explorer, and with its live tv control, this uses a full 3GB of memory. So now all that  OS power will be put to use as you are up at 1AM yelling commands to your xbox while everyone is trying to sleep.

So the xbox has slower ram, and only 5GB available for games.

The ps4 has a much more streamlined  system and has a full 7GB for games, and only 1GB (still a lot) for the operating system.

@Vapor, I wouldn't worry too much, there is a seismic shift happening right now. The new xbox is not very popular and faces a tough road.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: TF1216 on 14 Jun 2013, 05:34 pm
Rclark, that's how you answer a question.  I couldn't have done better if I knew the answer myself  :thumb:

Was I correct in thinking the 800 MHz clock is the timer for switching between the CPU and GPU?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 14 Jun 2013, 05:42 pm
Thanks for that Mr. Clark.
So we pretty much said the same thing, you just said it better.  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 14 Jun 2013, 05:44 pm
Timer? Not sure but I believe its just the clockspeed of the GPU, around 8-900 MHz, and the CPU portion will run at around 1.8 Ghz (possibly 2, there is rumor of an uprating on that).

There is also a rumor that MS is having yield issues with their chip because besides being crappy, the embedded memory for the Xbox One is supposedly causing heat issues and they may have to downclock the Xbox even further. Which if the rumor of a couple hundred Mhz is true, would widen the performance gap considerably. Another rumor is that MS is just going to eat the cost on these bad yields and try to keep its initial 1.2 Tflops.

EDIT: this would make sense as Sony is reportedly not having production problems and stores are getting far higher numbers of preorder allocations, as much as 4:1 over the Xbox, which could very well indicate production issues for the xbox.

Here's where things sit right now:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=82163)


np guys, just here to help  :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 31 Oct 2013, 07:50 pm
I did not know this, but the PS4 will not allow external HDD.  But, users can replace the existing HDD with one that is greater than 160gb, which you will need as the new batch of games clock in above 40gb each.
ALSO NO PLAYING CD's nor MP3's. NO DLNA support.
[url]http://www.playerattack.com/news/2013/10/31/ps4-no-external-storage-pc-streaming-mp3s/[url]
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 31 Oct 2013, 08:08 pm
The dealbreakers for me:

mandatory Kinect V2...... Nuff said. Seriously.
mandatory internet connection or it won't function after 24 hours. See point above about Kinect.
much less powerful. Much less. PS4 has double the rendering capability, and 7GB GDDR5 for software.
severe restrictions on how you use software you've bought. Want to loan a game to a friend? They have to be on your friends list for 30 days, and then once you loan it, you lose rights to play it  :scratch:
No renting games.

And on and on.. plus $100 more expensive due to the Kinect.

An awful system.

Sony also flexed their hardware muscle in another way. The PS4 runs circles around the new Xbox performance wise, but is also tiny in comparison, despite having the power supply built in.

The xbox is a giant boat anchor with a huge power brick.

Basically it sucks in every way possible and is going to get crushed right out the gate.

Ummm...some of your facts are wrong and outdated.

But if you want PS4...that's cool - no issues.

However, do you need to attack the Xbox and its owners to justify your choice??



George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 1 Nov 2013, 08:32 am
Yeah well look at the dates on those posts. Yeah, in just a matter of months they've backtracked on all that due to consumer backlash and getting slaughtered in preorder s by the ps4.

Get whatever you want  :) Maybe the Xbox One will have better synergy in your system than mine.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 1 Nov 2013, 03:14 pm
And preordered. I'll let you know how she runs  8)

Hoping I can use it as my file based music player as well.
So what do you think of the new announcement tht you will not be able to use it as a music player?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 1 Nov 2013, 05:31 pm
Already have Music Unlimited running on my ps3, S4, and Tab 10.2. It is fabulous  :thumb: Can't wait to install ps4 version. Seriously, it sounds awesome. Bigger selection than Spotify. I woukd guess they have some enormous percentage of all music ever recorded at this point. 95%?

It's $60 a year and gives you instant access to far more mp3's than you could ever hope to steal.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 1 Nov 2013, 06:35 pm
$60 now narrows that $100 difference between the consoles to $40.  According to your calculations.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 1 Nov 2013, 11:33 pm
That's fine, because, for gaming, the main purpose, the ps4 absolutely destroys the X1. No contest. I'm happy to pay for the music service,  I use it all day long, wherever I am, it's on hand.

In fact,  I consider $60 a year for such a massive, oceanic catalogue to be basically free. And I don't have to take up hdd space with files.

Had I not tried their 30 day free trial last month, and found out today I can't install files, I'd probably be upset, but no, this is way way better. Very high quality streaming as good as cd, anywhere on all my devices and the ps3/4, and tablet controllable. Win.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 2 Nov 2013, 12:33 am
RClark, how do you justify stating that the PS4 destroys the xbox one.  I have not read one article that states that fact.  What they do say is that if you have the latest Panasonic z60 and you are more than 10 feet away from the screen, you will not be able to discern between the two consoles.
Your raves about the PS4 border on mania, while the rants on the xbox teeter on foolishness. 
Both will be fine machines.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 2 Nov 2013, 12:43 am
But the largest question remains.....will either one of them have an analog out that I can feed my tube amp with.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: AluminatiSound on 2 Nov 2013, 12:47 am
I personally think both units will be great and provide many with the enjoyment they are seeking but some will side with what they are use to.

That being said, I will be getting a PS4.

Best,
Matt
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 2 Nov 2013, 03:06 am
RClark, how do you justify stating that the PS4 destroys the xbox one.  I have not read one article that states that fact.  What they do say is that if you have the latest Panasonic z60 and you are more than 10 feet away from the screen, you will not be able to discern between the two consoles.
Your raves about the PS4 border on mania, while the rants on the xbox teeter on foolishness. 
Both will be fine machines.

This is completely untrue. Everything I have read, from publications that have actually played both versions of battlefield 4 side by side (and not just watched the horribly compressed youtube comparison videos) have stated the PS4 version is unequivocally the better looking version on both single player and multiplayer. The game runs at a higher resolution, with more activated effects, at a more stable frame rate. These are facts.

Graphics aside, Sony dominated Microsoft last generation with amazing quality exclusive games. From 2010-2013 Microsoft released only 12 exclusive games for core gamers. Sony released 56.

If the past has anything to say about the future, the place for games is the Playstation.




 
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 04:16 am
It absolutely destroys it and I can go into great detail as to why if you like. The x1 is a joke in comparison.  You are paying for kinect with all its sensors, pure and simple.  The ps4 is all hardware power.

proving so would be trivial.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 04:18 am
But the largest question remains.....will either one of them have an analog out that I can feed my tube amp with.

yes, analogue out is provided by.. I forget which port but I'll get back to you  :)
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: gregcss on 2 Nov 2013, 06:29 am
As a Xbox live member since the first regular xbox - i must say that community is first. That said, I hear PS has a 1up on the online experience. Please discuss...
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 2 Nov 2013, 06:46 am
It absolutely destroys it and I can go into great detail as to why if you like. The x1 is a joke in comparison.  You are paying for kinect with all its sensors, pure and simple.  The ps4 is all hardware power.

proving so would be trivial.
Proof is in the pudding.
60frames a second is all it takes for our eyes to see a difference.
720 vs 1080 is a completely different ball of wax.  Let's not speculate 4k, as both companies will put in smaller, cheaper, cooler hardware later on.
Here is the proof, and there is more to find if you look.  [url]http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/720p-vs-1080p-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-hdtv-resolutions//url]
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 07:00 am
Are you implying these consoles will output in 4k with a hardware refresh? Then I understand you don't really understand how the hardware works.

I promise you I'm not making it up. The ps4 is far, far more powerful.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 2 Nov 2013, 07:06 am
Wait, are you telling me that the PS4 cannot [url]http://www.computerandvideogames.com/436094/sony-4k-movie-support-under-consideration-for-ps4//url]
It is more powerful, I am not arguing that point,  I am telling you that it is not as important as you think is this first edition of the console. 
I must be slow, so please put in graphical points how much more powerful the PS4 is, I really don't understand "far, far"
Thanks
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 07:08 am
As a Xbox live member since the first regular xbox - i must say that community is first. That said, I hear PS has a 1up on the online experience. Please discuss...

Well for starters, you get a headset in the box, and a headset jack on the controller, so that shows they intend to take online more seriously.

As lead console now, for development, and as having the superior multiplatform titles, expect the online presence to grow rapidly. I know a lot of 360 guys jumping ship. $399 and 1080P Call of Duty with dedicated servers is quite a selling point to a lot of gamers.

Sony is moving its online infrastructure for Ps4 to a better server setup, they're renting better servers now for psn, and they have Gaikai for streaming, which set a world speed record, so, they're in great shape for online.

I never really played online with my ps3 because I couldn't ever find my bluetooth headset charger. Will go on, ine with ps4 from day 1.

Edit: think you might have been talking about PlayStation Plus. I belong to it. Nutshell, last year they gave $1000 worth of top tier games away, for $50 a year.

Day 1 on ps4 you get2 games.

When you sign up for PS+ it's their online service and free games.

On top of that, unlike Xbox, you don't have to be a ps+ member to use Netflix or any other service. MS makes you pay $60 a year to access anything,  Netflix, anything. And their free games suck. I've seen them.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 07:17 am
Wait, are you telling me that the PS4 cannot [url]http://www.computerandvideogames.com/436094/sony-4k-movie-support-under-consideration-for-ps4//url]
It is more powerful, I am not arguing that point,  I am telling you that it is not as important as you think is this first edition of the console. 
I must be slow, so please put in graphical points how much more powerful the PS4 is, I really don't understand "far, far"
Thanks

The consoles will get hardware refreshes, as they always do, but it's only to save money, and on the silicon to save heat (and money). The performance never changes, only via firmware updates that affect every console. Often loaded onto games.

But a day 1 ps4 will have the same performance as the last one off the line. That's what differentiate s console from pc. It's a closed box.

On the power difference?

Microsoft bet the farm that nobody cares about graphics,  everyone wants "innovation" I.E., Kinect. They built a super hotrodded Kinect that costs, in their own words, as much as the console itself. It has an array of mics that can track all conversations in a room and focus on individual people. It can see in total darkness. With thermal vision. It can see the capillaries in your face. It can guage your mood, if you've had a beer. It can read your heartbeat from microvibrarions on your skin.


Ok? None of that is cheap. Sony only has a gaming console in the box. I can explain the differences  tommorrow if you want but just, I promise you, I will take a voluntary 6 month ban if there is ever an x1 version of anything that runs better than the ps4, and the slight difference between the two consoles last gen, this is nothing like that, the ps4 is head and shoulders more powerful for running games. A cold fact.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 07:39 am
But the largest question remains.....will either one of them have an analog out that I can feed my tube amp with.

Bob, auxiliary output will be for analogue out. We all thought it would be digital only, and that's why I bought a dac, otherwise I'd be piping the ps4 into my optocoupler, but they've since come out and said analogue output would be supported.

So you're good  :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 2 Nov 2013, 07:20 pm
So game sizes are huge now. Picked up my reserved KZ Shadow Fall and it requires 45 GB. I remember when games came on CD.

Anyway you no longer have to sit through a massive install. Just learned that from the first moment you pop in a new game it's 2.5 minutes until you are playing it, which is impressive enough, bit each subsequent time after that, 15 seconds from insert disc to in game,  playing it. So fast!

So 500 gig s really isn't a problem when you realize never a 20-30 minute or longer install ever again. Erase if you need space, time is no longer an issue.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 2 Nov 2013, 07:30 pm
I used to play an airplane game on Commodore 64 that loaded via an external cassette deck.
It took about 45 minutes to load the game, each time you wanted to play it.  :o
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 8 Nov 2013, 06:05 pm
I have cancelled my xbox one pre-order.  Too many things I do not like about both consoles this session.  Not being able to communicate to my 360 buddies that have not gotten the one, is a major obstacle.  My 360 is doing just fine.  Plus, I might as well wait for the February sales after all the bugs, and long term user fallout get reported, and sales have started to decline and both companies throw in even more freebies for buyers.  :shh:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: MaxCast on 8 Nov 2013, 06:44 pm
Our ps3 tanked.  Tried to talk the boys into getting a ps4.  They said no lets try to get the 3 fixed.   :scratch:
Thought they'd be all up for it.  I guess that's ok except they want a couple new games which we'll have to get for the 3 assuming I can get it fixed for a decent price.  We'll be waiting too.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 9 Nov 2013, 12:40 am
Sometimes it is easier to find a used PS3 on Craigslist, than to fix the PS3.  Mine broke (original) had it fixed, and it broke again.  The amount paid would pay for another one.  I can see PS3 going for $75 in about 3 months, you can get one now for $125.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bemopti123 on 9 Nov 2013, 12:51 am
I used to play an airplane game on Commodore 64 that loaded via an external cassette deck.
It took about 45 minutes to load the game, each time you wanted to play it.  :o

& people moan about content restrictions and the like for the Xbox One and other newer generation consoles.  I think piracy was common especially with the tape format used for data, no? :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 9 Nov 2013, 07:16 am
I have cancelled my xbox one pre-order.  Too many things I do not like about both consoles this session.  Not being able to communicate to my 360 buddies that have not gotten the one, is a major obstacle.  My 360 is doing just fine.  Plus, I might as well wait for the February sales after all the bugs, and long term user fallout get reported, and sales have started to decline and both companies throw in even more freebies for buyers.  :shh:

Don't fret, I think a lot of those players are going to migrate to the ps4. It's cheaper, more powerful, the controller is awesome, seriously,  and they have a whole new online setup going forward. You should consider it to, it's the best one this time, the library is going to be ENORMOUS as well because they have all the Indie support, and making games for the system is reportedly a walk in the park.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: gregcss on 9 Nov 2013, 07:53 pm
I'm undecided between the two. Currently have a 360 which I play from time to time, I would get cod ghosts but waiting to buy for one of the new consoles. My bluray player has been having playback issues lately which doesn't appear to be scratched or dirty discs from netflix and redbox. That said, which ever console I get (if i get) will replace my BD player. The 360 is loud when playing games discs, hopefully both the XB1 and PS4 are quiet when playing discs. My receiver does the decoding and dont care about 3D so either console should be just fine. Is it possible that one console is better than the other for BD playback?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: pardales on 9 Nov 2013, 08:23 pm
My son really wants an XB1. We are coming off a Wii game system and ready to step into the big leagues. He perceives the XB1 as being better if he wants to play with friends who live in other parts of the country who also have 1's or 360's. He believes the XB1 will be able to play all the 360 games; is that true?

Trying to get him to keep an open mind as it appears the PS4 may be the better gaming system, though I am not really sure he would notice the difference. We're coming off the Wii for goodness sake.  :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 9 Nov 2013, 11:33 pm
Neither machine is backwards compatible.  The xbox one will be the centerpiece for your family room, whereas the PS4 is just for gaming and it shows in its capabilities.  Both consoles will be overwhelmed by upcoming pc's and incoming consoles from the likes of Steam. 
The 360 and xbox one owners will not at this time be able to communicate with each other.  Big mistake on Microsofts part.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 9 Nov 2013, 11:46 pm
Question:
Let's say you're playing a game that is available on both the PS3 and PS4, will you be able to join with people playing on the other console, or are the servers console specific?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 9 Nov 2013, 11:47 pm
Ps4 has a lot of strength though, instead of esram they packed a ton of compute hardware in there, far more than the 1 has, plus it has Huma, which will also come into play later. It will be a graphics/physics beast for a long time to come.

Ps4 has all that voice control, etc (if you want that), with the seperately sold camera. It's just not packing thermal cameras and all the extra stuff kinect has.

But as far as gaming, ps4 at least isn't getting left behind anytime soon, it's the x1 with that problem.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 12:01 am
Question:
Let's say you're playing a game that is available on both the PS3 and PS4, will you be able to join with people playing on the other console, or are the servers console specific?

I know there will be cross play Ps4-Pc titles such as Final Fanstasy, where both pc and ps4 gamers can play simultaneously,  and I expect more of that, but doubt there will be ps3-ps4 cross play. Imo the ps4 controller is an unfair advantage against ps3, it's THAT much better.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 12:03 am
 :(
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 12:05 am
Hey, Gamestop will give you normal credit for your ps3's plus another 90% on top of that if you want to credit to a ps4Bob  :)

Edit: tommorrow only!
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 12:18 am
I didn't know that. Still no money though, and you've still got to buy the games on top if it. My son and I seem to have a rule that we won't advance our systems and games unless the other one can. Right now, the money for two consoles and the games to go with it just aren't going to happen.
That's why I was asking if PS3 gamers are still able to link with PS4 "in game". I've got a bunch of fellas on my list that will be climbing to number four in a couple weeks.

Bob

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 12:24 am
I have to disagree with you on the left behind part.  Any game developer will tell you that the latest graphics cards with the latest CPU is above both consoles.  But, both consoles will be able to play all their games, but at lower resolution, and less AI that is just the way it is.  Both consoles are using a CPU that is over a year old in development years compared to what is coming by the 1st quarter of 2014.  Plus, as Rclark has already stated the R9 is awesome as a graphics board.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 12:35 am
You can disagree, but you really don't understand the hardware  :D. The gpgpu compute units on the ps4 gpu are like having dual cpu's. The x1 and ps4 are in no way similar, performance wise. Sorry to break it to you.  :thumb:

Yes, a pc can be better, but it won't be cheap, and ps4 has architecture that will continue to shine through 2016 and beyond.

X1 is weak weak weak.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 12:50 am
You need to prove it rather that spout it.  Where is the proof in all of your fawning over the PS4.  You have not played with the kinect, nor the xbox one.  How can you make your statements without facts.
You keep stating "trust me"  I trust my friends but cut the cards, and I get my information from more than one reliable source.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 01:04 am
Proof, sigh. Ok. Making me work now.

Give me a few miutes.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 01:28 am
Let's start with specs.

X1 and Ps4 both have Jaguar Apu's. An APU is a new concept that bring the cpu and gpu together on one chip, elimination of all the busses and distance that seperate them as in a pc where you have cpu on motherboard, gpu in a seperate card

the difference is the implementation.  Ps4 has a very beefy chip, they were able to jam pack it with hardware, because their memory system is very very very fast, and unified, meaning one pool of memory. Which also enables Huma, a new technology that allows the cpu and gpu to access the same exact data independent ly of each other, without the previous bottlenecks.

Ps4's Jaguar APU has a vastly superior GPU.

It features 32 Rops
18 Compute Units
8 ACE's, 64 que's
1152 texture units

And I could go on.

X1 has have the Rops (rendering units), at only 16
only 12 Compute Units
2 ACE's, 12 ques.
768 texture units.

Secondly, the memory system is far superior on ps4. It has 8GB GDDR5 operating at a very high clockspeed, which enables a consistent 172-176 GB/sec across all 8 gigs.

X1 has 8 gigs of old slow DDR3, which is not suitable for graphics work, and they band aid this by stuffing 32 megabytes of Esram right there on the Apu. It's why the ps4 gpu is so much better. Limited space and esram takes a lot. The DDR3 has a bandwidth of 68GB/sec, the Esram 150 in lab, not real world. And it's complicated to use. Large slow pool, tiny tiny fast pool. No Huma possible in this case.

The games: (so far)


X1

Ryse: 900p 30fps
Dead Rising 3: 720p 30fps
call of duty: 720 p 60fps
battlefield: 720p
Destiny: 720P
forza: 1080p 60fps (but is basically old graphics engine. No dynamic lighting, no weather, no night driving, all static environment. And is quite ugly with bad antialiasing. Very jaggy compared to Drive Club)

Ps4

Killzone;: 1080p 60
call of dury: 1080P 60
Destiny: 1080P
Driveclub 1080P 60
Resogun 1080P 60
The order 1886 900 (but it's 1080P density with black bars for a 21/9 widescreen ratio, not upscaled 900P like Ryse).

And so far everything shown is prettier on ps4.

And it's $100 cheaper. I could go on, there's plenty of proof,  growing day by day, and it's not going away. There is a 55%+ power advantage for ps4.

Hell it has 1.84 Tflops versus xbox 1.18.

Do you understand what that means? The 360 was about a 300gflop machine. The difference in just graphics output, not even counting the other advantages,  is like an x1 with two 360's strapped on.

Let it go  :thumb:

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 01:34 am
Wow.  :o Not even Google can translate that.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 01:39 am
I found something that clear up all my questions.
After this, you should be all set.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gerfj5E3ds
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 01:44 am
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnoiCP4MReU



Hahaha  :thumb:


Yeah forgot to add, Titanfall will also be 720P. Lmao. $500.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 01:49 am
I found something that clear up all my questions.
After this, you should be all set.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gerfj5E3ds

Awesome, Thanks for the link.   :duh:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 02:06 am
Glad I could help.  :wink:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: SoCalWJS on 10 Nov 2013, 02:20 am
Seems pretty clear the the PS4 has more raw processing power. Probably means it will result in a better gaming experience, but time and again, that has not determined which platform succeeded nor which failed.

I'm staying out of this one, probably permanently. They both made enough poor decisions with the design and development of these platforms that they are both wanting IMHO
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 02:24 am
I disagree, I think Sony did great for $400. Combined with cpu flops it's nearly 2Tflops. Very respectable. And they will be able to dig stuff out of that architecture in the next 4 years. Gonna be great.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 02:31 am
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5xxi6cjjU

Doubtless this will impress. Ps4 will easily reach these visuals in 2014

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: JoshK on 10 Nov 2013, 02:33 am
I have lots of gamer friends.  (I am not a gamer, although I will play on an off occasion).    I see the PS4 winning out by a landslide amongst my friends.    I couldn't ever get into XBOX 360's controlls, I had to set them to PS3 controls.   That isn't here or there, but its there.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 03:16 am
If they produce a model without the Kinect, just console, imo its value, I would feel comfortable paying $299 for that. The console by itself is no match, but if they produce a kinectless model I would buy one as long as the price is realistic in light of the ps4.

Xbox will have a few fun exclusives and I'd like to dabble.

If they keep kinect in the box, then I will wait until I can get one for a very low price, and toss the kinect in the dumpster.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 03:32 am
See, that is where we diverge.  I believe the Kinect is the best part of the experience.
In time, I want to have a holo deck.  That to me is the true gaming experience.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 03:43 am
Kinect is not the holodeck, lol. The holodeck is a pc with Oculus Rift, or Ps4 VR whenever they launch that. Kinect is a camera, not a projector lol, and it isn't even a useful input for core games, only a gimmick. Playstation Move is way better in that regard. You actually have buttons for each hand, and it's more precise.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 10 Nov 2013, 04:10 am
Everyone keeps talking about power (not just limited to audiocircle), but no one is talking about games. It doesn't matter how many flops you have, if you are not providing people with compelling games to play.

There was a lot of great games this generation, but there was nothing that impacted me like The Last of Us. Exclusive to PS3, a machine that can be "crushed" by any decent PC built in the last four years. Sony brings the exclusives, and provides compelling content not available on another console or PC. I can't say the same for Microsoft.

Consoles as a whole remain effective because they are fixed, and priced for mass market.  The PS3 bombed at launch because of its price.  Do you think people will jump on a steambox or PC at 600 dollars or more, when their PS4 or Xbox One plays Call of Duty at slightly less fidelity for significantly less money? 

Not to mention that 600 dollars does not guarentee you worry free compatibility.  With the wide array of hardware configurations, there is bound to be driver issues, and incompatibility issues. Madden for PS4 works on everyone's PS4.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 04:29 am
Well....the nice thing about a console is that "you're done"....it's plug and play, period.
With a PC, there are variables like the hardware you're rerunning and tweaks and over clocking, and watercooling..bla..bla..bla..

With a console you plug it in, sit your ass in the easy chair and stare at your TV.
With a PC you're in an uncomfortable chair with a keyboard worried about all those variables....

The console is just cleaner. I have nothing against the PC gamers (I'm actually envious) but the console is just "ready to go gaming" unlike PCs.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 04:33 am
......I would add......

A console is like a small reasonably priced sports car that is very reliable.
The PC is like a Lambo, Ferrari, (etc....) that has to have some attention to keep it working at optimal efficiency.

No one will argue the supercar is bigger, better, faster, more.....but when you just want to DRIVE....the other car is sitting there waiting for you.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 06:22 am
My PS3 died, I had an xbox that no longer read dvd.  There is absolutely no such thing as plug and play no worries
I will not be buying into the must have consoles in the first months, that is just dumb dumb dumb. 
When both companies are seeking more revenue, and the hardware goes on sale in February what have I lost?  Nothing, because I can then filter through the quagmire of hyperbole and either buy a PS4, xbox, steam, or build my own gaming HTPC.  I still have a very workable 360. 
Plus, there are no must have games coming in that time period. 
Both of these new consoles require a patch.  Which means to me that they were pushed out the door as fast as possible.  Coincidence that Sony and MS came out with consoles at the same time, hell no.  They know what is coming up, and they panicked. 
Get your PS4 and rave, buy your xbox and control it the way you want. 
 
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: pardales on 10 Nov 2013, 12:27 pm
Neither machine is backwards compatible.  The xbox one will be the centerpiece for your family room, whereas the PS4 is just for gaming and it shows in its capabilities.  Both consoles will be overwhelmed by upcoming pc's and incoming consoles from the likes of Steam. 
The 360 and xbox one owners will not at this time be able to communicate with each other.  Big mistake on Microsofts part.

Eeek. That is important, so you cannot play 360 games on the XB1? You cannot play PS3 games on the PS4? No communication with users in other locations across either platform? Sorry I need to confirm this as it will make a difference in our decision.

Is there another reliable source out there, besides you guys, that explains all this kind of stuff for both systems? I've been reading a lot about these systems and no where did I encounter news that they were NOT backward compatible with games from their previous versions.

Thanks for the discussion everyone. Another reason to love AC!
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 10 Nov 2013, 12:45 pm
There is absolutely no such thing as plug and play no worries
Other than the occasional firmware update, it is plug and play with no worries. What are thinking of?
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 10 Nov 2013, 02:04 pm
My PS3 died, I had an xbox that no longer read dvd.  There is absolutely no such thing as plug and play no worries
I will not be buying into the must have consoles in the first months, that is just dumb dumb dumb. 
When both companies are seeking more revenue, and the hardware goes on sale in February what have I lost?  Nothing, because I can then filter through the quagmire of hyperbole and either buy a PS4, xbox, steam, or build my own gaming HTPC.  I still have a very workable 360. 
Plus, there are no must have games coming in that time period. 
Both of these new consoles require a patch.  Which means to me that they were pushed out the door as fast as possible.  Coincidence that Sony and MS came out with consoles at the same time, hell no.  They know what is coming up, and they panicked. 
Get your PS4 and rave, buy your xbox and control it the way you want.

Seriously?

You are talking about apples and oranges. You think that PC is free from parts failure? Just look online to see how many people get DOA video cards, RAM, and hard drives. It is not an insignificant amount of people. Also, look how many reviews of various video cards talk about the piece failing within the first six months. It is also not insignificant.

You think Sony and Microsoft are scared about what is coming? Have you seen the hype for these consoles? They are both sold out at most major retailers until 2014.

Both Microsoft and Sony have said it is the biggest console launch for their companies ever in the history of console gaming.

Sony says it is on track to sell 5 million PS4s by March-April of 2014. If Microsoft does that well, or better, we are talking about 10 million units in 6 months.

Do you think steam box is going to do that sort of business? 

The only reason Sony and Microsoft waited this long to release a new piece of hardware was because the PS3 and Xbox 360 have been selling like hotcakes for years. Now that the sales of consoles has likely begun to stagnate, and market saturation is almost at its peak, they decided to release new hardware to create a new market, plain and simple.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 05:22 pm
I don't understand your posting kingdeezie.
How is it apples and oranges.  Your argument just implied that all gaming machines inherently are apt to fail.  Apples to Apples.  I love hype because it is all true.  :duh:
Steam will not come near those numbers, but they don't have to.  Because, all they need to do is sell a few hundred thousand, and word gets out.  Plus, all the people with regular PC's are using their service.  They have 3000 games, and have 6,500,000 concurrent players right now. Unlike other consoles, the Steam Machine has no set hardware, as its technology is implemented at the discretion of the manufacturer and is fully customizable in the same lieu as a personal computer.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: pardales on 10 Nov 2013, 06:11 pm
Eeeek!  :icon_surprised: So you cannot play 360 games on the XB1? You cannot play PS3 games on the PS4? No communication with users in other locations across either platform? Sorry I need to confirm this as it will make a difference in our decision.

Is there another reliable source out there, besides you guys, that explains all this kind of stuff for both systems? I've been reading a lot about these systems and no where did I encounter news that they were NOT backward compatible with games from their previous versions.

Thanks for the discussion everyone. Another reason to love AC!
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 10 Nov 2013, 06:32 pm
I don't understand your posting kingdeezie.
How is it apples and oranges.  Your argument just implied that all gaming machines inherently are apt to fail.  Apples to Apples.  I love hype because it is all true.  :duh:
Steam will not come near those numbers, but they don't have to.  Because, all they need to do is sell a few hundred thousand, and word gets out.  Plus, all the people with regular PC's are using their service.  They have 3000 games, and have 6,500,000 concurrent players right now. Unlike other consoles, the Steam Machine has no set hardware, as its technology is implemented at the discretion of the manufacturer and is fully customizable in the same lieu as a personal computer.

 :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:

Seriously?

How are FAILURE RATES and EASE OF USE even REMOTELY related? Apples to Oranges.

The initial point that myself and Bob made, was that with consoles, all games released for a console play on that system with minimal work or fuss on the part of the consumer. Yes there are firmware and software updates for the games, but they are handled by the system infrastructure and are fairly straightforward, IE you load the game, the update downloads, you play the game.

With PC gaming, it is not that simple. Ever have to update your motherboard drivers to play a game more efficiently or even at all? Video drivers? Sound drivers? It is extra steps that your average consumer who just wants to play games does not want to deal with.

Can all electronic components fail, PC and consoles alike? YES.

Are consoles more streamlined, easier to use for the average consumer, and MORE PLUG AND PLAY? YES. <---- Initial point.

Apples to oranges.

As a side note, making the steam box customizable is a huge mistake. It just fragments the machine's hardware, much to the same degree as a computer. In this way developers can't develop within specific parameters, they have to develop for a wide, vast amount of parameters. This usually causes the developer to have to create software that is poorly optimized.

Optimization is the reason GTA V runs on eight year old hardware. Good luck running it on an eight year old computer.     
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 10 Nov 2013, 08:17 pm
deezie you mentioned apples and oranges in regards to parts failure.  Ease of use, I agree.  My macbook pro, except for hardware failure, battery and ssd is extremely easy to use.   Plus, I am running the latest OS. 

Tell me why fragmentation is a bad thing?  This is in regards to the Steam computer.  Right now the gaming console is the one that is steering the game makers.  In two years EA, Ubisoft, and Bungie will be compiling to the lowest common denominator for our games, which will be the Xbox One and then the PS4.  Both of these units only drive industry to push the envelope for a maximum of two years.  The PC market is now just an after thought. 

You vote with your wallet, I am voting away from the 2 party system.  When was the last time an AMD CPU was better than an Intel CPU?  MS and Sony went the cheap route.  Don't get me wrong, I used to be a staunch AMD supporter in the K6 series, but AMD has become a second run.  The Haswell runs circles around the Jaguar, and the next Broadwell generation coming out next year is going to be amazing.  Pair that CPU up with an AMD GPU and you have a juggernaut that will run 4k circles around either console.
I will continue to play with my friends on the 360, until they all upgrade to either machine, and then I will get a new one.  I do not see any reason to buy now.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 11:52 pm
@Deezie, yeah, and Gta 5 isn't even on PC at all. There are shitloads of games that are pretty much console exclusive and or, you have to wait two years for the pc version. Pc isn't all roses, there's a reason consoles are popular. Well, at least the ps4 will be popular. The Wii U is an utter failure and the X1 has been a disaster since its reveal. The only hope MS has is the US and Sony has become the people's favorite again. I predict x1 will be a financial catastrophe for MS.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 10 Nov 2013, 11:55 pm
@ woodsea. Lowest common denominator is a myth. Otherwise we'd be playing wii U up ports! No, it's more like ps4 is lead platform and x1 gets downports from that, if lucky.

Ps4 likely to have five games for every one or two on xbone as ps4 is far easier to dev for. Expect lots of delays for x1, and ultimately a lower fidelity version. Every time.

I've actually met guys from Bungie. Bungie has given an extra hour of gameplay to ps4 for Destiny and has stated ps4 will be the best version.

Everything that happened last gen is now out the window, down is now up.

Or conversely, ps1 sold 130,000,000, ps2 sold 160,000,000, ps3 is on its way to a 100,000,000 close, and ps4 is about to shatter launch records.

Ms, on the other hand, had 1 successful console, the 360, at 78,000,000, and the first was a major flop. 3rd looks to be the same, a dud.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: gregcss on 10 Nov 2013, 11:57 pm
let's face it - no matter what you buy it will be obsolete when you buy it. Cars, TVs, HT receivers, phones, etc. Why fret, just buy and enjoy.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 11 Nov 2013, 07:09 pm
It's a pretty tough  sell though when you're $100 more than the competition which happens to be outputting double the pixels with no need for upscaling, and with better effects and post processing. If the x1 was $299 this wouldn't be a debate, but it's a problem when you're more expensive due to going all in on you preipheral device, but less powerful.

Getting reports now that Assassins Creed 4 is sharper and crisper, with better draw distance on ps4. The embargoes will all be lifted soon and we will get to see just how bad it is.

I can't see anyone with a 1080P television not giving this some thought. Upscaling sucks.

Ps4 out in 4 days.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 14 Nov 2013, 11:58 pm
This article sums it up well for me:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-9020_7-57611406-222/why-you-should-wait-before-buying-an-xbox-one-or-ps4/

I will wait.

George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 15 Nov 2013, 08:22 pm
Been running my ps4 all night. It is an ASTOUNDING machine, and YouTube will not prepare you for it face to face. And everything about the UI and the online experience is beyond the curve. Really amazing.

Full review incoming soon.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: this_is_vv on 15 Nov 2013, 08:33 pm
waiting for the review...
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 15 Nov 2013, 08:39 pm
I will say this, to touch on audio. It's like an Imax 3D movie. Most audiophile quality positional audio, best environmental sounds I've ever heard. Audio is a huge leap forward.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 18 Nov 2013, 08:00 am
Haven't forgotten. Actually have a few reviews to write, but doing ps4 first.

We learned today they moved over a million consoles in 24 hours,  shattering sales records, best launch for any console, ever (ps2 had similar levels of interest and sold a million in 3 days). Europe and Latin America on the 29th, and it is estimated the ps4 will do somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million this month, again, shattering sales records.

It's anticipated xbox 1 will come nowhere even close, with poll after poll showing heavy interest in ps4, and reports on initial preorders an order of magnitude higher than the xbox, which led to MS immediately backstepping on policies and "features" like Michael Jackson.

Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 18 Nov 2013, 12:07 pm
Enough already....just enjoy your PS4.

You made your point, now move on.

It's like the Ncore amps all over again.   :icon_twisted:

George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 18 Nov 2013, 08:45 pm
I guess I just know how to pick the good stuff  :wink:. And some people grow so biased they would buy their favorite manufacturers gear if they took a dump in a box and called it new product. Enjoy your 720P last gen chug fest. I'm sure you will glaze over that and fork over $500 willingly for less performance that your mind will not see.

It's like tube amps all over again.

I can be snarky too.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: MaxCast on 18 Nov 2013, 08:59 pm
Rclark, was that really necessary?
I enjoy being updated as to the pros and cons of each system but if the horse is dead in your mind...quit beating it!!
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 18 Nov 2013, 09:13 pm
Let's be honest, that was a pretty salty reply. And how can the horse be dead, that news just came out, and the fact that the x1 has had to change drastically over the past several months is just a fact. If you don't like to hear bad news, that's on you, not me.

Anyway, this thread has run its course.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Folsom on 18 Nov 2013, 09:16 pm
PS4 seems like a no-brainer for me. But I've always preferred a keyboard and mouse. Do you have to be a semi smart monkey instead of just a monkey to use a computer? Sure, but still just a monkey. What I miss is the freedom on games, the big worlds and spaces. My biggest reason for not wanting to participate is because of lack of freedom in games, too much freebies, and no stories. I played during the hay-day before Halo came out. After that it was all consoleitis. Don't get me wrong I like some console games, but they've always been bubbly and fun for the most part. Their restrictions made them fun. The computer... offered a real world of strategy, creativity, room to excel. But that's basically been destroyed. Either everything is like a console or MMORPG that's more EQ styled (don't like them, SWG is awesome before Jedi, but everyone pushed it to become EQ/WOW w/ Jedi and killed it along with an expansion for space that was slow like slug).

I should stay away from this stuff, I get all nostalgic missing the way games use to be, so fun.... 

That said, Rclark you can send me a PS4 and a game you think is good, I'll give a review.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Rclark on 18 Nov 2013, 10:09 pm
The biggest mistake people will make is in thinking x1 will be exactly like 360 was, and that ps4 will be exactly like ps3 was, and therefore base their decision that way.

But when people start seeing that the ps4 online experience is completely awesome (it is), that the new controller is easily equal to or better than xbox (it is, now), the $100 lower price, and the much much higher performance,  especially where it counts, on multiplatfom titles (the gap in fidelity is there and will continue to grow in ps4's favor), then x1 will fizzle.

Remote play on Vita is also a killer app that will explode once it reaches a lower price. Remote play is an amazing feature absent on x1.

Ps4 also has much more content incoming:

PlayStation 4: Awesomenauts: Assemble (Ronimo Games) – Aiming for November 29Backgammon Blitz (The Fyzz Facility) – This WinterBasement Crawl (Bloober Team) – Q4 2013The Binding of Issac: Rebirth (Nicalis) – Early 2014Bound by Flame (Spiders Games, Focus Home Interactive) – Early 2014Daylight (Zombie Studios, Atlus) – Early 2014Divekick (Iron Galaxy, One True Game Studios) – Was supposed to be launchDoki-Doki Universe (HumaNature Studios, Sony Computer Entertainment) – December 2013Driveclub (Evolution Studios, Sony Computer Entertainment) – Early 2014Escape Plan (Fun Bits Interactive, Sony Computer Entertainment) – November 29flOw (Thatgamecompany, Sony Computer Entertainment) – November 29Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta (Square Enix) – February 22N++ (Metanet) - Launch WindowNBA Live 2014 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts) – November 19The Pinball Arcade (System 3, FarSight Studios)PlanetSide 2 (Sony Online Entertainment) – Early 2014Pool Nation FX (Cherry Pop Games)) – Was supposed to be launchPutty Squad (System 3) – Was supposed to be launchSherlock Holmes: Crimes & Punishments (Frogwares Studio, Focus Home Interactive) – Early 2014Tiny Brains (Spearhead Games) – November 26TowerFall: Ascesion (Matt Thorson) – Early 2014War Thunder (Gaijin Entertainment) – November 29

Xbox One: LEGO Marvel Super Heroes (TT Games, Warner Bros. Interactive) – ASAPPeggle 2 (Popcap, Electronic Arts) – December 2013Project Spark Beta (Dakota Team, Microsoft Studios) – January 2014Halo: Spartan Assault (Vanguard Entertainment, Microsoft Studios) – December 2013

 They made their console indie friendly at an early stage and are reaping the benefit, and for AAA games they are much easier to develop on, speedier development.

Sun Tzu said a war is won before it has even begun,  and there has been no more clear textbook example as this console launch.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 18 Nov 2013, 11:43 pm
I am going to close this thread until the Xbox one comes out.
The hyperbole in this thread in regards to the abysmal inadequacy of the Xbox One compared to the PS4 is way over the top.  The PS4 is only 3 days old in the world and the One is just crowning. 
I will either open this back up on Thanksgiving (Nov28 USA), or we can really have a truly fresh educated experiencial (new Word) discussion in another thread.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: SoCalWJS on 26 Nov 2013, 09:39 pm
So now that both machines are out, this thread goes dead??!!???  :scratch:

I just don't understand how some of these things (discussion threads) work I guess.....  :dunno:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 26 Nov 2013, 10:33 pm
I tried to get Rclark to post his thoughts on the PS4, but he doesn't come by anymore  :? and his mailbox is full  :scratch:  I am waiting to buy, so I have nothing to add personally.
I find it ironic, now that they are out, that no one has a voiced their opinions.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 26 Nov 2013, 11:15 pm
I tried to get Rclark to post his thoughts on the PS4, but he doesn't come by anymore  :? and his mailbox is full  :scratch:  I am waiting to buy, so I have nothing to add personally.
I find it ironic, now that they are out, that no one has a voiced their opinions.

I think many of us are waiting on the sidelines.

I did have an XboxOne on pre-order, but decided to cancel it when I looked at the lack of games.  I would say it is pretty much the same thing with the PS4.

While both consoles sold +1,000,000 units right off the bat, I think it will take some time for the majority of folks to upgrade.

George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: SoCalWJS on 26 Nov 2013, 11:22 pm
This morning, I heard on the LA ABC Morning news that a bunch of the Xbox one's were being returned due to excessive fan noise, but Microsoft was swapping them out w/o problems.

Haven't heard much other than that.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 26 Nov 2013, 11:24 pm
This morning, I heard on the LA ABC Morning news that a bunch of the Xbox one's were being returned due to excessive fan noise, but Microsoft was swapping them out w/o problems.

Haven't heard much other than that.

Both consoles have had reported hardware issues and both vendors appear to be handling it.

Not totally unexpected.

George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 26 Nov 2013, 11:51 pm
For what it's worth to anyone, I've had the PS4 since launch day.

When I opened it up on launch day I was a little bit disappointed. Admittedly, my system is significantly less common then most average consumer, and open to quirky complications.

The issue I had? The PS4, unlike its predecessor, doesn't let you choose what sound format to output (stereo versus multichannel). I have a HDMI switcher that decodes HDMI audio codecs to PCM, and then outputs toslink (optical) to my Meitner MA-1 DAC. What the switcher doesn't do is change the signal from 5.1 to 2.0. I have used this method with the Wii U and PS3. So, for the first hour with the machine, I was without useful sound, and was quite frustrated.

After looking for a long time in the settings menu of the PS4 for a way to change the signal to stereo, I eventually had the bright (read should have been the most obvious) idea to plug the PS4 directly into the DAC with toslink. This fixed the issue, as the PS4 automatically detected the DAC was only 2 Channel.

Once I got the sound up and running, I was less than happy with the SQ results for the first few hours. It took the PS4 a few hours of play time to open up in the sound department. Before it did, I was remarking to my wife that it sounded worse then the PS3.

At this point in time, I am much happier with the sound.

Other then that little mixup, I am completely thrilled with the machine!

The graphics are IMHO a massive upgrade. I game using a JVC RS50 projector at 100 inches, and the differences in quality and resolution is welcomingly apparent. I sit about 12 feet from my screen, and the change has been dramatic.

A lot of people have made mention that the launch lineup of both consoles has been pretty poor, but I would tend to disagree.

Knowing that the new consoles were launching, I held off on playing COD, Battlefield, Assassins Creed, etc, etc. This has given me a large amount of options to play.

Immediately, and as ridiculous as it sounds, I was snagged right out of the gate with Resogun. It was a free game that came with Playstation Plus, and has been a blast to play. I just finished it completely a few days ago, getting the platinum trophy.

Right now I am enjoying Killzone Shadowfall. The graphics are amazing, but the gameplay is only ok. I like it less then Killzone 3, but still find it overall enjoyable. The multiplayer is awesome (but I suck).

I still have COD to delve into, and Assassins Creed, which from the reviews out, has around 80 hours of content!

The UI is pretty slick, it is definitely an upgrade from the PS3. Updates, friends, invites, are so easily accessible and fluid it makes me excited to have to access the XMB while in game.

I bought two consoles, one for myself, and one for my younger son for Christmas. I popped his open to make sure it was okay, and it worked beautifully. My PS4 works flawlessly, other then slightly louder then other PS4's I have heard fan. My fan can get pretty loud during intense gameplay. Louder then my slim PS3, but not as loud as my launch Xbox 360 was.

I also purchased an Xbox One, but my older son came to me a couple of weeks ago, and asked if he could have one for Christmas. I decided to give him mine so he has one for the holidays.

Once Christmas rolls around, I'll be able to compare the PS4 with his Xbox One.

Either way, I'm pretty happy with the PS4! No regrets.  :thumb:
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Woodsea on 27 Nov 2013, 12:38 am
Thanks for the review Kingdeezie!  Have your son sign up for AC so he can review his X one!
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: highfilter on 27 Nov 2013, 12:59 am
Got a PS4 as well. Slick looking unit - having it sit above my PS3 Slim, the PS3 looks outclassed.

System: The new controller is really nice. Makes you feel good! A friend came over and immediately liked the feel of it, he's a PS3 owner. The PS4 interface and navigation is really nice, very iOS / PC feeling. You can quickly snap between a game and another application by tapping the PS3 button on the controller and everything loads almost instantly. Ethernet speeds seem faster or better managed. Was downloading 4 or 5 game updates at the same time and they were cruising, plus they auto-install in a queue which is nice. The trophy system is much improved on the PS4, they all load very fast when you view your trophies and it doesn't take a life-time to sync your trophies, like the PS3 did. They also added stats for each trophy so you can see how rare they are based on user-stats. Never had any setup issues or hardware issues with the console, works perfectly.

Games: Only retail game we got was Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag. Basically a last-gen console port, but it does look really good and plays well. Sound design/quality in that game is pretty damn good. My favorite title for the PS4 is Resogun. Amazing retro graphics and fantastic sound design/electronic music. If you like Stardust HD, you'll love this game. Might pickup Killzone on Black Friday or something.

There's not a huge selection of games for either PS4 or XBOX ONE (launch title selection for every new console are never really that great), but 2014 is gonna be sweet.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: kingdeezie on 26 Dec 2013, 08:24 pm
So, yesterday was Christmas! Merry belated Christmas to all.

I spent a significant portion of yesterday setting up video game systems for my two children. My younger one received a PS4, while the older one wanted the Xbox One.

I stated last time I posted about my PS4 impressions, that I would come back and give some impressions on the Xbox One once Christmas rolled around. My son and I have gotten a good feel for the system to this point.

At the risk of being called "biased," I have to say that I have been, to this point, massively disappointed with the Xbox One in comparison to the PS4.

Things started off pretty rough. I hooked up both machines before I turned either of them on. They were turned on around the same time (within seconds of each other). Without getting into too many details, my younger son had downloaded the PS4 firmware update, installed Skylanders, and downloaded the game's update, before my older son's Xbox One had even finished downloading the day one firmware.

From there, things just got worse. When we tried to install Battlefield 4 on the Xbox One, the system forces you to wait for the patches to download before the game itself will install. This meant waiting somewhere in the ballpark of 30 minutes to just play the game. This is in comparison to the PS4 which took maybe 3 minutes to install before I could play the single player portion of the game. It was the same story for every game Xbox One game we installed yesterday.

This lengthy installation process was made more frustrating by the fact that, even after being installed, several of the games froze during the menu screens. Battlefield 4 had to be restarted three times before it got past the "battle log" loading screen.

Once the games were stable, they ran perfectly fine. The machine looks quite capable graphically. Since we do not have a lot of duplicate games, it is hard to give a direct comparison, but both of my kids TVs are only 720P, so I do not think there is going to be a noticeable difference between multi platform games without 1080p capable televisions.

The Kinect features are pretty cool, when they work. Any amount of significant background noise makes performance of the Kinect pretty poor. I do not know if there is an issue with the Kinect that my son has specifically, but with my younger son chatting, and his TV volume on reasonably low (they live in the same room), the Kinect often times ignored commands completely.

Even with complete quiet, the Kinect is hit or miss, say maybe getting it right 85 percent of the time. It is pretty sweet being able to control the TV from the Kinect, as well as a significant portion of the Xbox's features, but I don't find it that enticing, and given the rockiness of the  performance of the Kinect, almost frustrating.

We don't have cable television anymore, so we did not get to use any of the features. We also didn't see any reason to use the SNAP multitasking yet, since most of the time, we were installing games.

I would expect that the Xbox One will get better with time, but as of right now, the machine doesn't feel very next generation compared to the PS4. It is packed full of features, but they are features that are either, IMO, superfluous, or not optimally functioning at this point in time.

At this juncture, I would have to recommend the PS4 over the Xbox One, based on just the game installation alone. I have never waited more then 5-10 minutes for any PS4 game to install from a disk. Outside of that, it seems the PS4 to me has been much more intuitive, smooth, refined, and stable. I've only had my PS4 freeze once during the Killzone Shadow Fall menu on day one with the console.

Either way, it is exciting to see what the future brings for both of these machines, I think we are in for some good gaming.  :thumb:



 

   
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: zybar on 26 Dec 2013, 08:55 pm
Very nice review based on real world experience.

Makes me happy that I cancelled my Xbox One order and decided to wait.

George
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: gregcss on 26 Dec 2013, 09:15 pm
Thanks for the review. I'm going to wait a bit before I decided on either one, but leaning towards PS4 since all I want is a gaming system and BD player. A note about BF4 - I've been playing this on the 360 and it has froze numerous times during game play and I fault the developer, not the 360. There are now a total of 4 game patches and with those the game freezes are less frequent. Perhaps the freezes you experienced were caused by an unstable game and not the xb1.
Title: Re: PS4 vs Xbone
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 26 Dec 2013, 10:08 pm
Great review, thank you!