AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Mapletree Audio Design => Topic started by: ricky588 on 18 Apr 2006, 12:19 pm
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Hi to all the forum devotee's,
I just wanted to give my take on my tube experiences. Never tried tube equipment, hell its old fashioned using funny looking bottles that light up when a little power goes through them.
Ask me now what I think and you will see a smile of a cheshire cat across my face that says "Tubes are for me".
I have been in this audio rat race for 25 years just hoping that I can get back that very first real hifi experience (my first system was Dual CS505 turntable, Nad 3020A amp and B&W DM20 speakers). Well I can finally say I am back baby and in full force.
To my ears the Ultra 4A is exactly what I have been missing in music, it presents everything in a emotional and involving manner, try listening to Sarah Brightman and you will know what I mean. Her voice can reach highs you would not believe but the Ultra 4A hangs it all out for all to hear, naturally with no shrillness.
I have had the Ultra for a little over 2 weeks which I guess is hardly enough time to do the Ultra justice, so with that in mind I will save a more indepth review until later.
For now I am just going to listen and enjoy for the first time in years.
Special thanks go out to Donald Glynn for his rave and passion for the Ultra. You have renewed my vigor in music.
Stay tuned for more and if anyone has been contemplating buying one. What are you waiting for? It is a no brainer.
Ricky.javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughing
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Hey Ricky,
You didn't mention what type of amp you're driving with the Ultra. Still on solid state?
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Ricky,
Welcome to AC.
Dr. Lloyd makes a nice preamp.
I had an Ultra 4 - would love to hear an SE, especially with the tubed power supply available now.
Like Garman said - what's the rest of your system?
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Well here we go.
Here is the rest of my system.
Linn Axis TT with K9 cartridge, Museatex CD-D transport, Museatex Bitstream converted to full Data 2 upgrade. Mapletree Ultra 4A SE, Nad S200 Power amp and finished off to perfection with the Klipsch Cornwall (verticle type). My cables are kimber and Cardas.
Still with solid state for the power but believe me when I say that this pre-amp has made my Nad S100 surplus to requirements by a long shot. No competion at all. Plus I get to do some tube rolling.
Better than a massage and a bar of chocolate. Weird I know but that is what this pre amp has done for me. Musical pleasure has been restored.
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How do you like the phono stage on the 4SE?
I'm betting the SE is a good step up over the regular 4
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The phono stage is very good although I will say that it is not the equal of the line stage. My old phono pre amp was a Nad PP2 and the Mapletree betters it in all respects.
I am not sure of the differences between the standard Ultra and the SE version either way its a fantastic pre, especially when you factor in the price.
There was another post from Donald Glynn and he said that with nothing playing and the volume turned way up it is dead silent. I tried it and guess what, just pure black silence.
I have since put in some 12sx7 courtesy of a fellow Ultra fan and I am getting ready to play some tunes this evening at 9.00PM. Really looking forward to this one. I will post my comments after a good lengthy listen.
Until then, keep smiling and playing.
javascript:emoticon(':D')
Very Happy
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The Ultra is a great pre and glad to hear you are enjoying it. It is definitely a great improvement in my own system. You mentioned that a friend of yours gave you some nice 12sx7s. Just curious as to what brand of tubes they are? I am currently using the 12sx7gt RCA black plates. They are probably the best I've tried so far, though there don't seem to be many different 12sx7s to choose from. In my limited experience, changing the rectifier tube seems to have more of a sonic effect in my system than the 12sx7s. I currently use a Mullard EZ35 for the rectifier which I really like. There have been a few posts on tube rolling with the Ultra, but not a whole lot. It would be great to hear of others experiences in this regard. Anyway, keep on enjoying that Ultra; its a great product.
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I have recently aquired some 12sx7GT on Ebay and they ar JAN 12sx7GT from GE. I also have a pair of RCA 12sx7GT.
I have been playing around with these tubes and the 12sn7GT which was supplied with the unit but also the Russian 6n8s.
All of these tubes represent a fantastic level of audio to me but I have to say that for all types of music the 6n8s really floats my boat. Dont get me wrong I love them all but for my taste I love what this tube brings to the table.
I have read on other forums that the 6n8s tube is a waste of time. Maybe my ears are plugged from all the years of listening but I like em.
Right now I have the 12sn7GT in the pre and I have decided I am going to do a lengthy listen (over a month for each type of tube) and then I will catagorize my thoughts and observations.
My system has not been off since I have aquired this pre, so I guess I am enjoying my musical days again.
Stay tuned for some more information on this.
Later,
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Never heard of a 6n8. Now I'm curious. I presume from your use that it is interchangeable with the 12sn7 family since you're using it on the Ultra. But, doesn't the "6" designate six volts? I thought the Ultra had to be modified a bit to use six volt tubes, but I may be confusing this with the use of the 6n7s. I really don't know all that much about tubes and still learning.
I know what you mean about not turning off your system. This is a very musical little pre--engaging and involving. Are you using the stock power cord? I tried a few after market cords and found that upgrading the power cord brought increased the dynamics and resolution without losing the warmth. You may want to experiement when time and finances permit.
Keep on enjoying it and I look forward to your future post on your tube rolling experiences.
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hartwerger,
What do you think of the phono section?
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Good question. I changed cartridges on my tonearm around the same time i got the Ultra so its hard to say definitively. I also bought my Ultra used and the previous owner did some mods, particularly to the phono section; essentially, there are some Jensen caps and Vishay Nude resistors in there. I also don't have a lot of phono pres to compare it to, but the Ultra does best the Hagerman Bugle I was using before that which beat out (by a long shot) the Radioshack battery powered pre before the Hagerman. Interestingly, the previous owner of my Ultra used the phono section of the unit almost exclusively over that of the linestage. I am in the opposite camp. I'm also using the tubes in the phono section that he put in which are not the stock tubes (I forget for the moment what kind they are, but you can always email me if you want me to find out as he sent me a bunch of the 12sn7s with the unit). That said, the phono section sounds pretty darn good on my end.
I also recommend (again) that you try rolling some different rectifier tubes as that seemed to make a difference in the phono and linestage together. (I'm assuming that you have the 2T, tubed, power supply, not the solid state version which I'm not sure Dr. Peppard offers anymore.)
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I think the older units had to be modified but the newer units come with a switch for 12 or 6 volt tube types. It makes for a great way to try out all of these tubes, you just have to be careful not to fry any 6 volters on the 12 volt setting.
I am sure there are many other tubes, I think I would like to try some Mullards or Brimars if there is an equivelant tube.
Anyway I will add my thoughts on all of the tube combinations later on.
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Still using the stock cord and yes I have the 2T power supply. I would like to try some different rectifier tubes but will have to do some reading up on ones that can be used.
The plan is to change the power cord later on but I have learnt to do little upgrades at a time because then you can hear and appreciate the differences. One thing is for sure I will not be going back to a solid state pre. I have been bitten and infected with that darn tube bug. Great feeling it is too.
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I just received my ultra4.
I am in disbelief that a tube pre could make such a drastic change for the good.
I am going to order some tubes, I think Dr Lloyd has a newsletter with some tube rolling.
I'll start there. Anyone ever fuss with the rectifier tube?
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Hey Berndt: So glad you like the Ultra. I think Lloyd's products are some of the most underrated and great values in audio today. Don't know if this will be good for Dr. Peppard or not, but the word on MAD products needs to get out. Anyway, I haven't done a tremendous amount of tube rolling on the Ultra, but will briefly report on some findings (assuming my sonic memory is accurate). Again, the usual caveats, my gear, my room, my tastes apply here. There were some NOS GE 12sn7gts that were in the line stage that I replaced with some NOS RCA 12sx7gt and never looked back. The RCAs seemed like solid well balanced performers and I had no need to look further (and was having trouble looking anyway as I couldn't find all that many 12sx7s that I thought would equal or better the RCAs). Also found that the rectifier tube made for more dramatic changes. I currently use a Mullard GZ35 in the 6x5 spot. I have tried a Bendix 6x5 which I found charmingly thick and romantic, but was way too syrupy for my taste. I also tried a Sylvania 6x5, coke bottle shape, which was way cool looking. It was a well balanced tube from top to bottom. Definitely more energy on top than the Mullard. Ultimately, it did not have the midrange warmth and 3D bloom of the Mullard so it did not stay in my system all that long. There was another one I tried, a GE I think, but for the life of me I can't remember. Must not have made an impression. So far, I have liked the Mullard as the rectifier tube the best. Hope some of this helps. Keep on enjoying the Ultra. Its a great procuct and happy listening.
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Great!
any ideas on sourcing?
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Hi Berndt,
I have to let you know that this musical game is brilliant, especially with the Ultra in the loop.
I am really glad you are impressed just as I and many other forum members have been and continue to be. I agree completely with Hartwerger!!!!!
As for tube rolling, I have been buying and using many different types from 12sx7 to 6sn7. The RCA 12sx7 is the most even from treble to bass but you will need to find the tube(s) for your taste.
I have just purchased some Brimar 6sn7 tubes and they sound absolutely fantastic, a slightly different picture than the 12sx7 but still a fantastic sound. The fun in all this is the trying and experimenting. Good luck with the tube rolling.
As for sourcing, I am assuming tube sourcing? If this is the case then eBay, audiogon or canuck audio mart are great places to look.
All the best.
Ricky.
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Berndt,
Glad to hear you got your Ultra 4 up and running. Doc's preamps are something really special and very underrated as Hartwerger says. Hartwerger was instrumental in my buying the Magic 5B and I haven't looked back ever since. It has been like the missing link in my system for total system synergy. I'm also using the RCA 12sx7gt's and quite happy with them over the stock GE and Sylvanias that came with my kit. I bought my RCA's from Jim McShane. They were quite reasonably priced and he is a gentlemen to do business with. Buying 12sn7's sure beats the NOS 9-pin game I used to play. The prices for good NOS 9 pin tubes are ridiculous. Good luck and keep us posted on the burn-in.
steve
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thanks all!
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Got some rcas from Jim Mcshane. they sounded great before warming up!
I have some others on the way.
BTW, I have received a starter set of signal cables, power, ic's, and speaker.
Just hooked up they presented a deeper, blacker, richer presentation, just like advertised!
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What other tubes did you buy? I've read good things about the Hitachis but never heard them.
steve
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2 sets rca 12sn7gt
1 rca 6x5gt
2 majestic 6sn7gt yellow print
4 sylvania chrome top 12sn7gt
2 6x5gt brown base, one sylvania, one los gatos
2 special mica tung sol 6sn7gt
3 green label sylvania 6sn7gt
1 brimar ez35/ 6x5gt black plate
1 tung sol 6x5gt 40's nos
My wife put me on ebay time out.
I really am shooting in the dark, I don't think I made the most educated choices...except my first set was from Jim Mcshane, a matched set of RCA 12sn7gt that are playing right now. They have been in for 4 hours and they just keep getting fuller and richer, blooming, I guess.
I would be happy to swap any extras when I am sitting on a few, if anyone is interested.
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I must say, the RCA tubes make this pre have the ability to make my digital stuff sound rich and warm.
I enjoyed listening to my olive through the ultra, moreso last night than ever before. It almost sounds like vinyl.
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"Sounds like vinyl"
Speaking of vinyl, how do you like the phono stage of the 4se? :idea:
Nice variety of tubes you have there.
Dr. Lloyd has a pretty good stash of stuff too - might want to bug him when you're ready to try some more
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I don't have a very deep experience pool with vinyl. I have a 50$ tt and a 50$ tuner. Before the ultra, my tuner sounded better than the turntable, now the turntable has the equivelant margin of superiority over the tuner. It just seems to pull more texture out of the recordings. I look forward to having a more worthy TT.
I am surprised Dr Lloyd doesn't advertise tubes on his websight, his new headphone amp looks bitchin', btw.
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Just tried a tung sol rectifier tube and it was a step up from the rca which was a step up from the oe tube Dr Lloyd supplied.
A similiar change to what I heard from changing the 12s7 that came with the pre to rca 12sx7gts.
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Hi from another ultra 4 se owner.
Were did you get your rectifier tube from? I would like to purchase one.
thanks
mike
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Ebay.
The auction.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/1x-TUNG-SOL-6X5GT-40s-VALVE-VALVES-TUBES-6X5-EZ35_W0QQitemZ150045248397QQihZ005QQcategoryZ39997QQcmdZViewItem
I purchased that one and a Brimar made in GB.
The brimar sounds sylvania esque.
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Hmmm....First time posting in this circle. Yesterday I had a chance to try this preamp with my Butler 2250 amp's, and I must say ...it was very enjoyable. 8)
Added a nice dimension to the music....smooth, yet detailed....quiet as well. I liked what I heard. Checking the cost...fair price for the quality, build , and sound. I hope others give it a try....the more you listen....the more you learn... :thumb:
Good luck.... Chris
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I grew up around home built airplanes so the build of the maptree is "aircraft quality".
Chris, I'm glad you took the time to post your thoughts about the U4. I didn't get to hear one before buying, just had someone shouting "BUY IT" in my ear.
:thumb:
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I just hooked up my Ulta 4 SE with a Butler amp and WOW what synergy!
My system never sounded so good.
Dr. LLoyd be prepared, this pre is going to become a cult classic, mark my words.
It won't be the hype that sells it, but the musical experience.
I will buy and sell many things but that stays!
Thanks
mike
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It did sound good at the Rave Mike.....even better the last few hours.....the night session. 8)
Looks good....sounds good.....and....not expensive.....good bang for the buck !!! :green:
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Mike....Did you notice any difference in the sound with a different power cord ?
Chris
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Actually, I used the lighter colored cord for the pre and the darker slightly thicker cord for the amp.
I switched out the power cord with my Virtual Dynamics beast and found the black sand cable to deliver a cleaner sound with more defined bass, more detail, generally a more pleasing fulfilling sound.
Those Black sand cables truly are great. I didn't really play with the power cord from the pre because I was having such a good time. Really. I just listened to music. oh .. and I smiled :)
It was synergy heaven. Now I have to get my hands on a Butler one day! Then I am done. :thumb:
I hope :wink:
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One more question....you had the Butler....your Mapletree pre.....and the Modwright. Did you compare the preamps at all ? How were they similar or different ? Thanks...... :thumb:
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forgive me, I must say that replacing the oe cord with a 50$ signal cable was nice.
I'd love to hear what tube combos you heard?
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Berndt,
I am using the stock RCA rectifier with Russian gold pin 6sn7 electro harmonix tubes.
I always wondered what a better umbilical would do?
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Berndt,
I am using the stock RCA rectifier with Russian gold pin 6sn7 electro harmonix tubes.
I always wondered what a better umbilical would do?
Dr Lloyd now uses locking 3 pin DIN connections.
I am working on a better umbilical as we speak.
The chair guy had some coolio gucci 3pin p/s i/cs, although 180$ is kinda steep...
revelation?
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Please keep me updated on your umbilical project I would be very interested.
Danke!
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Please keep me updated on your umbilical project I would be very interested.
Danke!
be happy to, man, this thing is so engaging, every tweak makes changes.
The power cable was more night and day than any tube tweek, from oe.
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Yeah,
It sort of got me pretty excited as well. What amp do you use?
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The power cable was more night and day than any tube tweek, from oe.
Careful Berndt.....the "voodoo crowd" will be coming around...... :lol:
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It did sound good at the Rave Mike.....even better the last few hours.....the night session. 8)
Looks good....sounds good.....and....not expensive.....good bang for the buck !!! :green:
Well WolfyChris...I imagine later in the evening at those sessions you've got a good 6 pack+ in ya' :wink:, but dang did I find it sound terrific (fueled only by delicious Chinese food and Calistoga spring water) this weekend at Jimbolaya/Ribbonspeakers house :)
Bill/Berndt....as I said, cable swaps have been mostly sideways moves, but the RAL umbilical (both times I commissioned one...from my DAC to power supply and phono amp to power supply), the difference was substantial. I don't want to spend Denise's money :P, but it could matter positively a whole bunch. I'd venture and say far MORE than any power cord swap, overall.
I think you can get substantial bit of the benefit of the Revelation Audio Labs cable if you DIY one yourself (I don't solder, or do so badly, at least). Something 14ga or larger would work...the computer one that came with the overachieving Mapletree is probably 18ga or smaller.
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Wrong John....no 6 pack that night....just a few. :lol:
But I know a good preamp when I hear one....and it was good !!! 8)
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I'll let you all know about how the Revelation umbilical cord improves the Ultra when it arrives. Ordered it over two weeks ago. Apparently, Revelation had to order the threaded pin connector from Lloyd's supplier and its taking them forever to send it. Anyway, I've always wondered if an upgraded umbilical cord would make any difference this little baby; hope to find out soon.
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Man, hartwerger, you saved my Bacon! :D
I'm just going to recede into the backround now.
Must post impressions though :drool:
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The RAL umbilical was an awesome upgrade for my phono preamp. Much more of an impact + long term satisfaction from that tiny cable than from any other aftermarket power cables I've used. No idea why CI audio doesn't have a link on their site....the RAL was like melty cheese and just made everything better.
I hate to mention this but in the past i've made CD's for older guys who aren't into/believers of good cabling (they seem to be older, no offense meant). I can make high resolution cd's from LP's. For the test i run 1 side of an LP as i normally would, then to 'show' folks what stock cabling does I simply install the stock umbilical (remove the RAL) and copy the same side again. Both sides are done with cold equipment - i try not to stack the deck. the power strip & HHB standalone still have DH Labs/Oyaide cables, which lets the differences shine through loud & clear. Anyhoo, just 18" of RAL wire makes or breaks the music.
the differences are easily discernable even when listening to a newer car stereo (stock), which is what i tell the guys to do so the big systems don't color their judgement. the car stereo is the 'control'.
GD
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I own a Mapletree line 3A SE and I'm interested in the RAL umbilical. Could you supply me with a link.
Thanks,
Raja
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sorry, this is a repost from John, the chair GUY....
5 or 6 pin DIN, maybe?
I totally forgot while I was there, but the umbilical between my phono stage and battery supply (that was there this weekend) may have fit your Mapletree straight up. I didn't think of it until I was well on my way home.
Revelation Audio Labs (Brad Vojtech) made a couple umbilicals for me in the past two years....they have absolutely been the most substantial wire changes I've ever bought. Far more benefit than anything derived from speaker cable, power cable or interconnect swaps - which tended to be subjective, rather than objective, changes for the most part.
You just tell Brad what you need, and he makes it custom for you. All silver wire, cryo'ed, air core...great stuff. A 0.5mtr is $169 for the Passge Cryo-Silver umbilical.
Dr. Lloyd, feel free to delete this link (or contact me to do so) if posting Revelation Audio Labs web address is offensive to you on your forum, but I don't think it interferes with your product line, and may even help to enhance it
http://revelationaudiolabs.com/cables-power/index.htm