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The PSR demo that I linked (more than once) used 5 full bandwidth (including sub freq) speakers. Humans can detect spatial effects down to as low as 40hz.
well, obviously I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer But could you direct me to that link. thanks.
I think making one bad and one good is overly simplistic. If music is well recorded and played back on a good system - there is no issue with spacial imaging. By the same token the opposite can be true.On to movie reproduction whether home or a theater - having the appropriate number of front channels whether 2, 3 or 5 reproduces the intended mix. Add sides and rears as well as Atmos ceiling speakers to match room size and it can be a spectacular experience. (Don't forget figuring out how many subs to put in the room!)I had a Lexicon preamp and enjoyed a lot of music in the music surround mode. I also enjoy music in 2 channel stereo. I have a small theater with no center as well as a larger reference room with a full complement of speakers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that 2 channel doesn't suck. It can provide an immersive experience.
First of all thank you for contributing to this thread, and IMO you could build a state of the art immersive system with Evoke Speakers. 5 Evoke Eddie's as bed channels and 5 Evoke Ruby's as height channels would be amazing. I have to agree that two channels doesn't suck when compared to a typical 5.1 or 7.1 "surround" system. In fact many people with surround still prefer two channels for music. Immersing yourself by adding a vertical soundfield is completely different from surround. IMO Auro 3D and Sennheiser AMBEO are designed for music first, HT second. Atmos and DTS-X just the opposite. I hope you get to experience it with your speakers as I described. I would not recommend towers in the L-R position. With 10.1 surround you just don't need it. The engineers at Abbey Road studio mixing immersive audio for Pink Floyd's new show in London describe it as once you hear immersive you can never go back. I think that is a more politically correct way of saying they couldn't go back to two channels because it sucks in comparison, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. But given the choice of the two you know how Pink Floyd and Abbey Road voted...Check out Abbey Road_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMlFN8V4qW4
OK - the Abbey Road system is a complete wet dream. No two ways about it. I think there is something very satisfying to do something that pushes every boundary of technology and perfection. Not because you have to, necessarily, but to say that you did it. I had a client once that wanted a good listening room in his home. He had a very large room / basement. I told him that the problem was the ceiling - it was 8'. He asked me what he should do. I told him that if it were double there would be a lot of room to get creative with the room. I laughed as it seemed insane. He called me later that year. He dug down and added 8' to the room. Well, the room turned out great. How fun is that.
My current bed channels are about the same size as the Evoke Eddies but they are heavier because they are Active and have a 150 watt amp and a 50 watt amp inside. I have the front L-R channels mounted low using Mapleshade Bedrock stands, the rear channels use traditional stands and the matching center channel is also active and mounted on a Mapleshade isolation system. My height channels are also active and much heavier than the Ruby's so I use the same stands you see at Abbey Road because of the weight. The Ruby could be wall mounted with a bracket NP. I use an Auro 3D speaker layout as does Abbey Road. Atmos sounds just fine through this speaker layout. I upmix just about everything using the Auromatic upmixer so encoded software is not an issue. I think you have a GREAT market for immersive audio, it is not going away as far as I can tell:
That's quite a setup -- and a big commitment to a dedicated space! I'm wondering what thoughts you have had about room reflections. Have you experimented? Personally, I can appreciate a "dead" room. John Casler has that and it truly reveals a lot. I tend to go for the LEDE concept - Live End Dead End. Or more loosely 50% absorb, 50% reflect. i.e. Carpet on the floor / leave the ceiling alone. With a flat screen up front in the middle - treat the walls on either side. Treat the walls on either side of the listening position and the entire back wall. For me - this helps with time smear, improves imaging, yet keeps some of the rooms live aspect to it. When I'm experimenting with a room - before I commit to the money - I have a bunch of cheap memory foam mattresses and moving blankets. Moving them around really helps to get an initial idea of what works. Yea, I know, there are very precise scientific methods to work this out. I use them too. But this is a great inexpensive method and fun too.
Thank you. The speaker stands are what take up the space. My front L-R channels are much smaller than traditional towers like the Eddies. When you mount the height channels high on the wall instead of using stands they blend in much more discreetly. I used to use Eighth Nerve room treatment but then I moved. There is an acousitician locally with all those instruments to measure the room I want to bring in as my next "upgrade". Here is how I would install the Ruby:
Looks really nice. What kind of SPLs do you push with in your room? Eddie for example is full range unless you have aggressive organ music or LFE effects. Similarly, Ruby is a good performer into the 40's depending on placement. When pushed in the low end, the volume needs reduced or the shorting rings do their thing for the woofer. Good protection. No damage. Sounds awful LOL... We've used Ruby with a sub as a main music system and it's seriously wonderful... I'm leaning toward REL subwoofers. Not sure if I want to compete in that market. Time will tell... So in a home theater situation, rolling off at 80hz (typically 24db/oct on processors) to subs or LFE channels should work really well. The woofer is almost 90db efficient BEFORE adding the crossover which is pretty complex - hence affects efficiency. So you can get volume with some power. The tweeter is VERY efficient. You're unlikely to run out of headroom there!
The PSR link?http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=9136http://www.onhifi.com/features/20010615.htm
Another example of how 2 channel sucks compared to immersive audio. This guy that wrote the article below didn't even bother with a 5.1 system, he just added two height channels to his stereo and switched on the Dolby Surround upmixer. The end result? regular 2 channel sucked in comparison. He says:The main thing I learned in this process is that, to my ears, pure 2-channel sound was never as good as 2-channel sound with Atmos-enabled speakers and Dolby Surround ambience extraction. Each end every time I compared the two, the improved sense of space the height and ambience was there.For all you guys with a stereo this is easy to do. In the article the guy even used those wacky upfiring atmos speakers... and it still sounded better than stereo. Before you spend a dime on your next upgrade do yourself a favor and get "immersed".http://www.avsforum.com/i-used-dolby-atmos-enabled-speakers-in-a-2-2-2-system-heres-what-happened/
That article seemed intriguing, peaking my interest to further understand dolbyatmos technology.The author seems to favor the upward facing/firing (reflective sound) speaker modules for dolby atmos OVER inwall or ceiling speakers....so my question is which one is better the traditional dolby atmos speaker modules that face up wards and reflects the sound off the ceilings or speakers placed fairly high up and or ceiling speakers that directly radiate the sound downwards?He also states that >The uncanny effect of Dolby Surround upmixing was to create the illusion of listening to larger, taller speakers....why not just get larger taller speakers for 2 channel set up like some huge planars or open baffle speakers if that is the case?
You are a fool who never had a high end 2 channel system properly set up. Your speakers/your room are a big part of the equation. MAK
