GR Research will be anouncing the BIGGEST developement EVER!

Voodoo Rufus · « **Reply #40 on:** 26 Mar 2006, 01:59 am »

Any updates on these XBL^2 M130s?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #41 on:** 26 Mar 2006, 02:52 am »

Quote

Any updates on these XBL^2 M130s?

They have made a few attempts at it with the 8 ohm and 16 ohm drivers. The response looked good and smooth but was down a few db from where it needs to be. The Qts was a bit large too. They are going to work on the compliance to try to get the numbers up to where they need to be.

I do have samples of the 6.5" 4 ohm woofers for the new LS-6 and LS-9 line source, that has XBL^ motors on them that are on the way. The response curves and parameters finally hit the marks. I am sure they will be approved.

I also have a sample of a 6.5" version of the M-130 woofer (8 ohms) on the way that has an XBL^ motor on it. It's response looked great and parameters look good too. The Qts is a little high but for this larger driver it will be fine. I will likely bring these in too.

jcake5 · « **Reply #42 on:** 26 Mar 2006, 12:45 pm »

Danny,

Could you please share the Thiel and Small parameters for the new drivers even though the production specifications are not final. I would like to know the Rs, Le, Fs, Vas, Qms, and Qme if possible. Or, could you share the targeted Vb and F3 point of the drivers, 5.25- and 6.5-inch versions.

Thank you,
Eric

kfr01 · « **Reply #43 on:** 26 Mar 2006, 04:54 pm »

Pretty exciting stuff. Readers out there, if you haven't heard what XBL^2 drivers are capable of, especially in the lower octaves, you're in for a treat.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #44 on:** 26 Mar 2006, 11:53 pm »

Quote

Could you please share the Thiel and Small parameters for the new drivers even though the production specifications are not final. I would like to know the Rs, Le, Fs, Vas, Qms, and Qme if possible. Or, could you share the targeted Vb and F3 point of the drivers, 5.25- and 6.5-inch versions.

Not approved yet but they will likely be.

Samples for the 6.5" woofers to be used in the line source designs have the following parameters:

"Title: Measured Data"
"DCR mode: Fixed (3.28 ohms)"
"Area (Sd): 137.07 sq cm"
0.601 "RMSE-free Ohms"
34.544 "Fs Hz"
3.280 "Re Ohms"
40.114 "Res Ohms"
5.419 "Qms "
0.443 "Qes "
0.410 "Qts "
0.603 "L1 mH"
1.057 "L2 mH"
9.412 "R2 Ohms"
29.609 "Vas(Sd) liters"
18.918 "Mms(Sd) grams"
1122.068 "Cms(Sd) æM/Newton"
5.513 "Bl(Sd) Tesla-M"
90.102 "SPLref(Sd) dB"

For the 8 ohm 6.5" woofer:

"Title: Measured Data"
"DCR mode: Fixed (5.61 ohms)"
"Area (Sd): 137.07 sq cm"
0.525 "RMSE-free Ohms"
40.109 "Fs Hz"
5.610 "Re Ohms"
35.969 "Res Ohms"
3.684 "Qms "
0.575 "Qes "
0.497 "Qts "
0.452 "L1 mH"
0.903 "L2 mH"
8.786 "R2 Ohms"
35.565 "Vas(Sd) liters"
11.363 "Mms(Sd) grams"
1385.687 "Cms(Sd) æM/Newton"
5.288 "Bl(Sd) Tesla-M"
89.505 "SPLref(Sd) dB"

jcake5 · « **Reply #45 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 01:42 am »

Danny,

Thank you for the up-front information.

Cheers,
Eric

Danny Richie · « **Reply #46 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 09:21 pm »

They just arrived.

Here is the new line source woofer:

Note the truncated frame to allow for stacking them.

Here is the new M-165 (left) pictured next to the standard M-130 (right):

The new M-130 with XBL^ motor will have the same motor as this new driver.

See the response of this new driver:

How's that for a smooth response with no break-up?

JoshK · « **Reply #47 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 09:25 pm »

Do you have an impedance sweep?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #48 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 09:29 pm »

Quote

Do you have an impedance sweep?

Yea, but right now just in the printed literature that came with the drivers. I don't have a .jpg image of any. Looks great all a round though. From the specs posted above you can see the Fs and DRC which is nearly right on the minimum impedance dip.

Jason1 · « **Reply #49 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 10:52 pm »

Are your AV series kits getting the new M-130?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #50 on:** 27 Mar 2006, 10:58 pm »

Quote

Are your AV series kits getting the new M-130?

Don't count on it just yet. I will have to wait and see if they can get the new woofers to hit the numbers needed for it to be optimal in these designs.

mono-tubeleosis · « **Reply #51 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 12:50 am »

What's new about the woofer Danny? Is it something I can replace on my old AV2's / AVR's?

Larry M

I'm picking out the wood right now with Gary for the Battery Pre and 50w mono's. "Me be stoked!!!!"

Danny Richie · « **Reply #52 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 01:23 am »

Quote

What's new about the woofer Danny? Is it something I can replace on my old AV2's / AVR's?

We are trying to implement the XBL^ motor structure onto our woofers. It is not easy. It makes hitting a set of numbers that are otherwise no problem, a little more difficult.

They will NOT likely be drop in replacements for the standard version and I will not be dropping the standard versions either. these will be a new addition, and they will be more expensive too.

RAW · « **Reply #53 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 01:24 am »

Then add a ribbon

JoshK · « **Reply #54 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 01:49 am »

Quote from: RAW

Then add a ribbon

Why so you can add a lot of 2nd order harmonic distortion?

Sorry...the devil made me do it.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #55 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 03:27 am »

Here are some links with distortion measurements of ribbons,domes,and
other drivers.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/standard.html
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/hd.html
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/csd.html
I think the people who have a bias against ribbons are unaware of the whole picture and may have heard poorly designed or utilized ribbons.
The NEO3 PDR has superbly low distortion levels and the tested ribbons in general have a sharply decreasing 3rd harmonic distortion characteristic with increasing frequency. Only a few of the domes tested successfully suppress the 2nd harmonic distortion component to better than -55dB in a narrow bandwidth zone and none of them better this across their entire operating range.
Of course at the end of the day one listens to what they like and for me the planer magnetic tweeters and some ribbons sound more real and less like a mechanical device.
Scotty

Jason1 · « **Reply #56 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 03:28 am »

I would prefer a high quality textile dome that can cross below 2khz, over a ribbon.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #57 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 03:48 am »

Jason1, If you look at the 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion plots on the domes that were tested you will find that they all start to go south below 2kHz.
Compression behavior at lower frequencies is not shown.
This is basically midrange territory from an excursion requirement standpoint
in conventional designs. Line Arrays are another matter of course.

wshuff · « **Reply #58 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:07 am »

That's great news Danny!

Do you have a timetable now?

Jason1 · « **Reply #59 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:13 am »

It's well known that tweeters like the Seas Millennium, and Scan-Speak D2905 series can handle crossover points far below 2khz.

Speakers like the Linkwitz Orion, and everything from North Creek is more than enough proof.