AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: TAULISA on 27 May 2015, 11:35 am
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DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121770)
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Err, ok, I guess..........
Shakey
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I turned off the lights,but I can't turn off the other things as "I've fallen & I can't get up"
(Hey !, I just followed the diagram !) :o
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Klaus always turns off the lights when system is in use :thumb:
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Klaus always turns off the lights when system is in use :thumb:
I always knew Santa was a responsible guy !!! (what else does he have to do the other 11 months of the year !) :roll:
(I was able to crawl over to my laptop & send this message, but I think I may have injured my other leg in the process )
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All 4 amps are on 24/7, but I feed the grid with Solar, and I produce way more than I use. :)
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I am curious, if I am playing my music way louder than necessary, is this wasteful? :green:
If so, I am wasting a lot of energy right now.
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All 4 amps are on 24/7, but I feed the grid with Solar, and I produce way more than I use. :)
:thumb:
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Here's an interesting low energy impact house: http://www.ecocapsule.sk
For audiophiles, low energy approach would be laptop > DAC/digital headphone amp > headphones
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I have Solar as well and even with a pool pump running 8 hours I don't consume much electricity from the grid.
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I have Solar as well and even with a pool pump running 8 hours I don't consume much electricity from the grid.
:thumb:
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My audio system as well as a lot of other items in the house are on 24/7. My pool pump runs 9-5. My grid-tied solar system produces approximately 900kwh/month and thus my electric bill and carbon footprint is ZERO!
8)
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Same here. A small 4.32 KW PV system producing between 600 and 750 KWH/month provides nearly double the electricity we consume. It's only been in service for 6 months but that period includes the weakest solar months of the year so the future looks good. Since we are grid-tied we still get a small electric bill ($8.11/mo.) but that is offset by a rebate pegged to our production. This month I received a check for $18.18. That allows $10.07 to be put toward our small natural gas bill.
We are making money from electricity production while spending no money and keeping a carbon footprint of zero. I'm very pleased with my investment so far. Lower monthly overhead eases the apprehension associated with retirement. I'd like to get an electric car to use all our extra watts but the Prius uses very little gas for the little driving we do that the trade would work against us. Too bad - I really like the idea but can't justify it financially.
If everything goes as planned, I should be getting gas, electric, water, sewer and trash and recycling pickup all for about $80/month. Behind food and mortgage, cell phones will be our biggest monthly bill at $124.
Doesn't matter what amps I use or whether I ever shut them off or not. Central air conditioning and free electricity take care of any concerns in that area. LED bulbs help too.
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macro, you could look into plug-in conversions for the Prius. I know they exist and were expensive years ago but the price may have come down by now...
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I just drove a couple of miles to eat lunch in my (electric) hot rod. Didn't impress any chicks though :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117052)
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I just drove a couple of miles to eat lunch in my (electric) hot rod. Didn't impress any chicks though :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117052)
They probably took your picture, Phil. Watch for yourself on Facebook. Crazy old goat driving a golf cart on the highway.
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They probably took your picture, Phil. Watch for yourself on Facebook. Crazy old goat driving a golf cart on the highway.
Actually I'm on Faceliftbook.com :lol:
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Actually I'm on Faceliftbook.com :lol:
Good one, Phil.
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macro, you could look into plug-in conversions for the Prius. I know they exist and were expensive years ago but the price may have come down by now...
Thanks, Dave. I just looked into it. The conversion kit I saw goes for $8800 installed. Recently I saw a Chevy Volt at a dealer in Broomfield for $18,000 with 36,000 miles. I could sell my Prius for about $10K and spend the other $8K on a car I would rather own.
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I hum all my favorite songs to myself, that's how responsible I am!
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Thanks, Dave. I just looked into it. The conversion kit I saw goes for $8800 installed. Recently I saw a Chevy Volt at a dealer in Broomfield for $18,000 with 36,000 miles. I could sell my Prius for about $10K and spend the other $8K on a car I would rather own.
Volt prices may come way down for the outgoing 2015 model which could get you a better deal on a used one as well:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/26/chevy-has-6000-unsold-2015-volts/
BMW was just showing off their new plug-in hybrid in Boulder over the weekend, it looks great but is about $100k more than the Volt unfortunately....
http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8
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Volt prices may come way down for the outgoing 2015 model which could get you a better deal on a used one as well:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/26/chevy-has-6000-unsold-2015-volts/
BMW was just showing off their new plug-in hybrid in Boulder over the weekend, it looks great but is about $100k more than the Volt unfortunately....
http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8
That's more than the Tesla. Why does BMW think that will compete? Just because of their name?
I can't do anything for awhile. Figuring I'll just wait it out for a couple of years and see if anything changes favorably. Right now, between the Prius and my Tacoma we use a whopping 90 gallons per year. As you can see, gas would need to triple in price to motivate a change in cars for us. Going to one car would mean more to our budget.
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Please post your off topic posts elsewhere. This is a forum for Odyssey Audio products, NOT blu rays, Class D amplifiers and kindergarten level pictures regarding your notions of how everyone should be living.
Thank you.
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Please post your off topic posts elsewhere. This is a forum for Odyssey Audio products, NOT blu rays, Class D amplifiers and kindergarten level pictures regarding your notions of how everyone should be living.
Thank you.
The thread has stayed on topic pretty well.
Apparently you feel violated in some way because the subject matter does not deal explicitly with Odyssey Audio products. The appropriateness of such a thread is for Klaus, as moderator, to determine. I don't spend much time here so perhaps I am unaware that Klaus has put you in charge. If that is not the case, I have to ask by what authority you choose to scold us.
The subject matter of this thread is of great importance to all of us whether we know it or not. I wish more people saw fit to join in. As for Klaus, I hope he feels that this topic is not misplaced in his circle.
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Macro, my apologies if you felt my post was directed at you. It was not. The original poster has been cluttering up this forum with his drivel recently, I am not the first person to ask him to stop.
In any event, I have resolved this issue on my end.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121795)
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Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle. For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures. That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.
It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.
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Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle. For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures. That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.
It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.
All true.
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Carbon foot prints include everything it takes to maintain your lifestyle. For instance take out of season fruit: manufacturing of the fertilizer and pesticides used; equipment maintenance for planting, harvesting, and everything in between; refrigeration; retailing; waste disposal/recycling; the transportation involved each step of the way; and building/maintaining all the supporting infrastructures. That's just one food, now add all the aspects of clothes, appliances, housing, other products/services we use everyday, along with our personal transportation.
It really gets depressing when you consider all this on a personal level and then the fact that the U.S. has 3% of the world's population but uses 25% of world's energy.
The relationship of food to fossil fuel is pretty interesting. From fertilizer to fuel to produce and transport food, the world's food supply is almost entirely dependent on fossil fuel. Without it much of the world's population would starve. The average piece of food is transported about 1500 miles...
http://www.cuesa.org/learn/how-far-does-your-food-travel-get-your-plate
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My audio system as well as a lot of other items in the house are on 24/7. My pool pump runs 9-5. My grid-tied solar system produces approximately 900kwh/month and thus my electric bill and carbon footprint is ZERO!
8)
:thumb:
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The relationship of food to fossil fuel is pretty interesting. From fertilizer to fuel to produce and transport food, the world's food supply is almost entirely dependent on fossil fuel. Without it much of the world's population would starve. The average piece of food is transported about 1500 miles...
http://www.cuesa.org/learn/how-far-does-your-food-travel-get-your-plate
Yes, and figures have been proposed that we have the ability to feed maybe 2 billion people without using oil. Thus if we ran out of oil today, 5 billion would starve. The figures are arbitrary of course, but it gives an idea of the scale we would be dealing with without petroleum. Running out of gas for our cars will be the least of the problems.
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I already doing my part, I dont whatch TV afew years and I dont have a TV set.
As result I fell much better mentally and emotionally, better reasoning too.
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My audio system as well as a lot of other items in the house are on 24/7. My pool pump runs 9-5. My grid-tied solar system produces approximately 900kwh/month and thus my electric bill and carbon footprint is ZERO!
8)
Pretty positive your carbon footprint isn't zero. A carbon footprint is historically defined as "the total sets of greenhouse gas emissions caused by an organization, event, product or person." One's carbon footprint includes "direct" emissions from one's car (for example) and "indirect" emissions from goods bought/obtained/used where production processes (including vehicular transport) are included.
That's awesome you have solar panels, but the production and transport of those panels don't have a carbon footprint of zero. I'm sure most of your daily household items don't have a carbon footprint of zero. Your house certainly doesn't have a carbon footprint of zero. Your audio system doesn't have a carbon footprint of zero. I think the only people who truly qualify as having a carbon footprint of zero are (primarily tribal) people who still live in their indigenous lands, off the grid, unchanged by modern civilization ; Producing their food, clothing, shelter, way of life, themselves with virtually no impact on the environment any greater than that of earth's other creatures.
Anyway.....Just setting the record straight. If you live in the modern world, you simply don't have a carbon footprint of zero.....but, you can work toward lowering your carbon footprint, which anyone reading this message can do just by being more conscious of it and making even small lifestyle changes.
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^ Correct.
Look in your trash can at the end of a week. That can show you part of your carbon footprint. Food packaging? Processed food wrappers is a big one, too.
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Rdavidson, jriggy - Your points are valid but, in this context, petty.
While the solar array on my roof does not render a zero carbon footprint in absolute terms, it surpasses standard practice in that regard by an enormous margin. For instance, the power you receive at your house is the remaining 20% after fully 80% has been lost to transmission. Just imagine if the tanker truck that delivered your petrol used 80 gallons to deliver 20 gallons to your fuel tank. That's the corollary. It means that for every 100 units of pollution your power plant generates, 80 units may as well have not been produced because it was completely wasted. My panels deliver approximately 99% of what they generate to my meter causing no pollution. Far more efficient and much cleaner. And to the point so often trotted out about the carbon footprint required to produce the solar panels I say so what! The panels only needed to be produced once and will function as they should for 25-30 years. Amortize the production liability of the panels over that duration, and then compare to 25-30 years of 20% efficient power plant production.
The numbers are embarrassing.
Localized production of electricity is clearly the most advantageous approach. And we'll do it despite the misinformation campaigns and legislative hurdles that are certain to continue until big oil falls away or succeeds in co-opting the solar industry.
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Macrojack, facts aren't petty. Facts are facts.
I was just "clearing the air" regarding the misuse of the term "zero carbon footprint." It gets thrown around incorrectly and I can see where people can be marketed this term incorrectly. Then we end up with large numbers of people who ignorantly think they have a zero carbon footprint without really understanding the term. I think that's a problem.
As I stated, anyone living in the modern world can only reduce their carbon footprint. Solar panels obviously help us work toward reductions. Reduction = good. I wasn't bashing solar panels. I was merely saying that just because one has solar panels and isn't using electricity from the grid, does not make one have a zero carbon footprint. Because a zero carbon footprint is really an unattainable ideal for those in the modern world, there's still lots of room (beyond installation of solar panels) to be conscious of in order to perhaps get closer to that ideal.
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Electricity transmission/distribution losses are just over 5% or so, but the total energy contained in fossil fuels vs the energy in the electricity you get is about a 75% loss. This is why heating with electricity should be avoided, if you burn fossil fuels in your home you get nearly 100% of the energy back as heat.
Hopefully we will continue to make advances in renewable energy as well as storage methods...
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Solar panels, plus an electric car and re-usable bags/packaging, and a focus on fresh (not boxed/processed) food that's been locally grown, in season, seems to go a long way toward lowering your overall footprint. These are all things I do or plan on doing in the next few years as budget allows. Are there any other "big" areas I'm missing that I can reduce my footprint?
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Consuming less stuff and being aware of the consequences of our financial decisions is important imo. We are programmed to be good consumers and spend all we make on luxury items, being aware of how happy these decisions makes us is important for both the planet and our own financial well being.
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Tyson, I think those are the "big" areas. Other than overall electricity and water reduction, I think you're doing well. Recycling and composting are also good ways to reduce waste. Being creative with reuse of things is good and can be fun for those who have the time.
I read an article on FastCompany today where there's a startup in Alaska using salmon skin (normally thrown away) for things like wallets. The skins are naturally water repellent too. They're also looking to make other things like shoes. Not only is this a cool use of waste, if the outfit takes off, it could create more jobs as well as more income for fishermen. I believe they have a Kickstarter campaign currently. I love reading about things like this, where ordinary people are solving problems in creative ways.
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Me thinks, yikes that's cause for pause, many posting on this thread are on the left coast. :P :thumb:
I think, as most people think that solar is a great idea, but they don't care for what you go through to have solar panels and their looks, reliability and cost. It's expensive for the average household. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but there are many utility companies that aren't set up to deal with the buy back of unused electric from your system. Look at all the solar companies who are involved in the business that have gone broke even with govt. subsidies.
As for oil companies, most are deeply involved in alternative energy. If they don't they will one day in the not too distant future being out of business. There was a Texas billionaire, who made his money in the oil industry who about 2-3 yrs. ago spent over a billion $ of his own money to build wind farms from Texas up into the Dokotas, the plains states. Unfortunately he wasn't able to get enough utility companies to invest in grids to get the wind energy hooked into the electrical grids to make use of the wind energy. I just had the name come to me, Boone Pickins was the billionaire. My point is that there are companies that want to get the alternative energy industry going but, most people aren't ready to demand to the energy sector to get it going in a big way I feel.
I read the CUESA article and have to say they cherry picked the most extreme instances to make their case. For many yrs. I'd say at least 40 yrs. people have been getting a large portion of their eats from local/regional markets/growers. I don't live in Texas but, their are many roads that are called F/M (farm to market) roads. They've been called such for a long time. An F/M road is a road that the state would normally not allow big trucks to travel on due to weight restrictions. Most of these f/m roads ate only two lanes and have a weight restriction altered/raised to apprx. 56,000 lbs.
To me, it makes no sense for the U.S. and Canada to knock ourselves out and be poorer in the immediate future to place large restrictions on carbon emissions as the world keeps on doing what it's been doing since the industrial age. Not only that, but the cattle on this planet are the largest contributor to nasty emissions and that would have to be dealt with imo, to see significant reduction in green house gases first.
The electric Chevy Volt has been poorly marketed, too pricey and from what I've read/seen too unreliable. When they first came out they were priced over $40k. Yes, the price is dropping as most new innovations do but, that car shouldn't have been brought to market until the price was in the mid $30k's to buy. It was a darn joke at the price they first wanted for them. As we exchange ideas/thoughts on the matter, Honda, I don't drive one, is producing cars in limited quanities that run on natural gas. That's probably gonna be the way to go ultimately. Eighteen wheelers are in prototype running on natural gas. I don't see a big hurry to change out the freight transportation system as this is really expensive and it is going to raise the prices of all transporting of goods. Estimates I last read was apprx. 10% rise in grocery prices. And we all know how much people are going to complain when food prices rise that much in a short amount of time.
Well my fingers and brain are tired now and a storm is moving in so, I'll leave while I still can w/o negative consequences.
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Solar panels, plus an electric car and re-usable bags/packaging, and a focus on fresh (not boxed/processed) food that's been locally grown, in season, seems to go a long way toward lowering your overall footprint. These are all things I do or plan on doing in the next few years as budget allows. Are there any other "big" areas I'm missing that I can reduce my footprint?
LED light bulbs made a big difference here. We recycle and compost resulting in only about a half can of trash per week.
We recently unplugged the old freezer in the garage since we don't seem to need it any more. I had a vapor barrier installed in our crawlspace. At the same time we closed off the vents in the foundation and plugged all the perforations between crawl and main floor.Then we closed all the perforations in the ceiling and blew in R-49 worth of cellulose insulation. Then we bought Graber double cellular blinds for our east and west windows, getting blackout version for the ones facing west. Won't know what we've accomplished until winter but we feel good now. With any luck our good feelings will be vindicated when the heating bills roll in.
One other thing that might seem counter is we installed a ductless mini-split AC system. Calculations indicate that it may not use any more juice than the swamp cooler it replaced. The swamper ran full tilt all the time and was sometimes unable to keep up. The AC has an inverter system that is supposed to greatly reduce electric consumption. We'll see. I'm hoping all these other measures will cause the AC to see only occasional use. In any case, we have so much extra production from the panels. Almost forgot - we installed a roof mounted solar electric attic fan to reduce the AC load, keep humidity out of our new insulation, and prolong the life of our shingles. Also decided to replace overhead bathroom fans with highly efficient Panasonic models with ducting so that they actually exhaust rather than just humidifying the attic. Last year we spent about $650 on natural gas - hoping to cut that down to about $300. We have baseboard hot water heat and gas cooking along with a Rinnai on-demand water heater.
I hope these ideas help you, Tyson.
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I forgot to mention the clothesline. And I've read that there are new heat pump clothes dryers happening. Of course, they won't be cheaper than solar drying but they'll work better in the winter in Denver. Word has it that the heat pump dryers use 50% less electricity and eliminate the dryer vent which is said to compromise temperature stability in your home significantly. If you've ever opened the dryer door and been hit with a cold blast, you should be able to relate. Laundry, cooking and refrigeration are all things you could consider modifying for reduced impact.
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Corrections/confirmations to the last few posts:
RDavidson has the carbon footprint concept down.
Yes, conserve whenever possible. Macrojack, those are great suggestions.
Best to buy everything locally sourced and stop driving/flying. One of reasons for my retirement was to save 25,000 miles/year of driving.
Yes natural gas powered vehicles (cars, trucks, ships, trains) is the best short term solution. Growing up we had a propane powered truck (that hauled 40,000 pounds of grain). (Natural gas is cleaner, cheaper, and more powerful per cubic foot than propane.)
Electric/hybrid electric cars use lots of batteries that cause huge amounts of environmental damage to produce and dispose of. Consider more fuel efficiency gas cars if doing mostly urban driving or diesel if doing mostly rural driving.
Electrical utility transmission/utilization losses are roughly 80% as stated. Big power plants can't be switched on/off instantly to match demand, so most is wasted during non-peak hours/days. (Natural gas turbines are probably the best peaking power solution.)
Buy back of non-utility generated power is required in many states.
First kids to own the latest and greatest will always be on the bleeding edge of cost, reliability, etc. And honestly the Volt isn't much different than the Prius which is cheaper with proven reliability.
Wind farms aren't feasible (breakdowns, located away from demand - transmission losses, productivity is unpredictable). A local installer estimated 30 year payback and they won't last 30 years. Can't fathom why Pickens would make such a poor investment.
Photovoltaic and heating solar panels make great sense. Greatest power generation coincides with highest demand (daytime/summer afternoons) and its free after installation. Local production saves transmission issues. Every week improvements of solar are announced and prices are coming down. I received a rough estimate of $16,000 for a 6,200 kWh/year system that would provide 85% of our annual demand (12 year payback in a cloudy state). Michigan buyback provisions limit residential systems to less than the annualized demand.
But sunny conditions cannot be guaranteed (especially at night) so we'll need huge storage systems or the grid to be maintained. Fuel cells can be used during sunny conditions to create hydrogen to be stored locally for home or automotive use. Just need to get the cost down and reliability up.
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Corrections/confirmations to the last few posts:
RDavidson has the carbon footprint concept down.
Yes, conserve whenever possible. Macrojack, those are great suggestions.
Best to buy everything locally sourced and stop driving/flying. One of reasons for my retirement was to save 25,000 miles/year of driving.
Yes natural gas powered vehicles (cars, trucks, ships, trains) is the best short term solution. Growing up we had a propane powered truck (that hauled 40,000 pounds of grain). (Natural gas is cleaner, cheaper, and more powerful per cubic foot than propane.)
Electric/hybrid electric cars use lots of batteries that cause huge amounts of environmental damage to produce and dispose of. Consider more fuel efficiency gas cars if doing mostly urban driving or diesel if doing mostly rural driving.
Electrical utility transmission/utilization losses are roughly 80% as stated. Big power plants can't be switched on/off instantly to match demand, so most is wasted during non-peak hours/days. (Natural gas turbines are probably the best peaking power solution.)
Buy back of non-utility generated power is required in many states.
First kids to own the latest and greatest will always be on the bleeding edge of cost, reliability, etc. And honestly the Volt isn't much different than the Prius which is cheaper with proven reliability.
Wind farms aren't feasible (breakdowns, located away from demand - transmission losses, productivity is unpredictable). A local installer estimated 30 year payback and they won't last 30 years. Can't fathom why Pickens would make such a poor investment.
Photovoltaic and heating solar panels make great sense. Greatest power generation coincides with highest demand (daytime/summer afternoons) and its free after installation. Local production saves transmission issues. Every week improvements of solar are announced and prices are coming down. I received a rough estimate of $16,000 for a 6,200 kWh/year system that would provide 85% of our annual demand (12 year payback in a cloudy state). Michigan buyback provisions limit residential systems to less than the annualized demand.
But sunny conditions cannot be guaranteed (especially at night) so we'll need huge storage systems or the grid to be maintained. Fuel cells can be used during sunny conditions to create hydrogen to be stored locally for home or automotive use. Just need to get the cost down and reliability up.
I have seen numerous statements that the price of solar panels has come down 80% since 2008. My payback projection for sunny Colorado is just over 6 years. After that it all stays in my pocket. My working plan has me buying batteries and abandoning the grid within 10 years.
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JLM, not true at all on wind farms if they are located in an area that is windy. Northern Europe gets more than 1/3rd of their power from wind, USA is near 5% but there are initiatives to increase that substantially. Wind farm detractors have the kind of credibility as conspiracy theorists, their points are mostly false although I would say living near a wind farm seems to be a really bad idea.
When considering an energy producing device Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROEI) is the most important factor. The cost to produce and dispose of the item is taken into consideration on EROEI calculations. For wind turbines we were up to over 15:1 when I was working in the field 5+ years ago, the technology is improving VERY rapidly and new turbines are well over 20:1 I'd guess.
Nuclear actually makes sense until you consider EROEI, the inputs to build and decommission a nuclear plant are enormous and the estimates are growing all the time. Nuclear might have an EROEI of 4:1...
Fossil fuels have an EROEI much higher than renewables but it's not sustainable and emits co2.
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LED light bulbs made a big difference here. We recycle and compost resulting in only about a half can of trash per week.
We recently unplugged the old freezer in the garage since we don't seem to need it any more. I had a vapor barrier installed in our crawlspace. At the same time we closed off the vents in the foundation and plugged all the perforations between crawl and main floor.Then we closed all the perforations in the ceiling and blew in R-49 worth of cellulose insulation. Then we bought Graber double cellular blinds for our east and west windows, getting blackout version for the ones facing west. Won't know what we've accomplished until winter but we feel good now. With any luck our good feelings will be vindicated when the heating bills roll in.
One other thing that might seem counter is we installed a ductless mini-split AC system. Calculations indicate that it may not use any more juice than the swamp cooler it replaced. The swamper ran full tilt all the time and was sometimes unable to keep up. The AC has an inverter system that is supposed to greatly reduce electric consumption. We'll see. I'm hoping all these other measures will cause the AC to see only occasional use. In any case, we have so much extra production from the panels. Almost forgot - we installed a roof mounted solar electric attic fan to reduce the AC load, keep humidity out of our new insulation, and prolong the life of our shingles. Also decided to replace overhead bathroom fans with highly efficient Panasonic models with ducting so that they actually exhaust rather than just humidifying the attic. Last year we spent about $650 on natural gas - hoping to cut that down to about $300. We have baseboard hot water heat and gas cooking along with a Rinnai on-demand water heater.
I hope these ideas help you, Tyson.
We compost and recycle - in fact it's crazy, we have way more recycle than "regular" trash nowadays. Gotta try to figure out how to reduce that too, if I can. We do clothesline dry also, and only run the dishwasher when it's really, really full. All new double plane windows came with the house when we bought it (it's a 1954 brick home). We don't have solar panels yet, but I'm hoping the tax credit for them gets extended, especially since prices seem to be coming down over time.
But that begs the question - if you produce all the energy you need from solar panels, do you really have to be conservative with your energy usage in your home? Seems like that's only a concern if you're on the grid...
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Tyson,
The more you conserve, the fewer solar panels you'll need to buy. :thumb: Will your utility buy electricity you generate in excess of what you use? (In Michigan the utilities only have to buy up to what you use on an annual basis.)
We recently gave up curb side trash pickup ($20/month) in favor of driving it to the recycling center ($0.50/bag). Since the kids have moved out we only generate a couple of bags of garbage per week, so its much cheaper, and on the way to the YMCA. Plus we can recycle newspaper, metal, cardboard, and plastics while wondering when/if the pickup service will arrive before the neighbor dogs knock over the can and rip into the bags.
Dave,
Europe is much more densely populated, so transmission losses would be less. In Michigan many of the new windmills (big and small) aren't turning (big ones not needed all the time, small ones broken). Michigan utilities, like in many other states, are required to produce a percentage of their power via renewable means by dates certain. And I'd hate to have to manage the grid with significant wind/solar inputs. Yeah, I worked on coal and nuclear power plants many years ago. Yes, we have yet to solve how to dispose of nuclear waste.
macrojack,
I've thought about leaving the grid, but without something like fuel cells with hydrogen storage or adding a propane whole house generator with a few batteries, I don't see batteries alone being feasible here in Michigan where we routinely have heavy cloud cover for a week or two at a time in the winter. Heck back in the 70's I was thinking of this stuff and living in an underground house. When we built this house 10 years ago considered geothermal, but hated the extra $20,000 up front and the idea of heating with electric resistance in the duct with the furnace fan (the most inefficient system known) when it got below 20F. Now with our propane fireplace and small generator we can get by on 3 gallons of gas per day when we lose power.
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Tyson - There is a lot to learn about solar in Colorado. The fewer panels you have to buy, the shorter your payback time. I've learned quite a bit in the last year and would be glad to help you. If you still have my number, give me a call. Or P.M. me. There will be no extension of the tax credit. The only reason it happened in the first place was it being part of the stimulus. Get it before 12/31/2016 or miss out forever.
Perhaps you should consider just getting a loan for the solar install. If you pay the money to a bank every month instead of Xcel Energy, at least there is a final payment day and you will have something in the end. If you just keep paying the utility, there is never any gain. Also, if the cost of utilities was to triple, you would speed up the payback dramatically.
JLM - You have a very different set of parameters in Michigan than what we work with in Colorado. Maybe you should just move down here. Colorado requires electric utilities to get 30% of their power from renewable sources. Rather than create their own infrastructure, these companies chose to incentivize the public to build it. Now that the goal has been reached, they are not so eager to encourage competition.
Electric heat pumps are claiming 100% efficiency to -5 degrees and 85% at -13 degrees nowadays. That probably doesn't add enough range yet for Michigan but it is nudging the feasible around here.
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Unless I missed it - I have not seen this technology mentioned - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump
Could be good for some areas
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Some newer houses here in South Dakota have them. I think they're even more common in North Dakota.
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Ok, I read the geothermal article and that geothermal is nothing more than the original heat pump that got its heat/ac from pipes buried in the ground. Gee, that was30-35 yrs. ago.
The heat pumps sold here are not capable of holding the temp in a home at 71/72degrees in the winter once it goes below 31/32 degrees. Fortunately, it doesn't get those kind of night time temps much. I even had two installers come to the house and tell me it was functioning properly at the home before this one. I thought well, guess they don't make heat pumps like they did back in the 80's. That incapability is what drove me to purchase a small electric space heater. When I bought this house a heat pump wasn't an option in this development.
I was kind of thinking this thread might turn into a discussion on climate change but, I'm glad it hasn't.
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My motivation in all of this, I'm sorry to say, is personal and selfish. While I am an old hippie with sympathies that lean toward conservation and environmentalism, I never acted toward maximizing the efficiency of my home until the reality of retirement was impossible to ignore.
I'm about to turn 68 and my wife, who is still working, will be 61 later this year. I read somewhere that you can have a greater influence on your security in retirement by reducing the amount of money you need than by amassing great sums. Since I have no prospect of amassing anything on the positive side, I saw a lot of sense in reducing the need side of the equation. My own belief is that the major problems we will confront in terms of monthly bills moving forward will be energy and food. This assumes that Social Security and Medicare remain in place.
Food is not the topic of this thread but would probably be a valuable discussion for another thread.
We buy gas and electric from the same major corporation. Natural gas, for now, is very cheap and efficient. Because of my panels, electricity cost is zero. Most other steps we've taken center on reducing heating and cooling expense by increasing insulation and the integrity of our envelope.
Because of my age and Colorado policy, my property tax is a whopping $453.00 for this year. The city I live in provides sewer service and trash and recycling pickup at a senior rate of $27.40/mo. Domestic water is inexpensive. The bill ranges from $22 to $27 per month. As a result, we expect to pay about $80/month for gas, electric, water, sewer, trash and recycling combined. All of that for 60% of our cell phone bill. We dumped cable, leaving us with $80/mo. for broadband and our landline phone. These last items offer more room for paring going forward.
We are doing good things if not for the most noble of reasons. We are doing them nonetheless. If, like me, you need selfish motives to energize these kind of changes, so be it. Fact is, you will feel better because you are reducing your personal overhead and you might even take some delight in the fact that you are becoming part of the solution. Please consider it.
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Yes, geothermal is a passive groundwater heat pump (the ground being more consistent temperature 6 feet down and water having a much higher thermal coefficient) makes it more efficient to pump water than running an air condenser in a common air to air heat pump (but as macrojack eluded to, newer models are challenging the paradigm). Most installations use a vertical (if land is limited) or horizontal buried water/antifreeze loops that exchange heat with the ground. One of the cool factors is that energy to create hot water in the summer comes from space cooling (doesn't have to loop in the ground (the same system provides hot water and space comforting). But big upfront costs, including lots of insulation and sealing up the leaks for it becomes viable. Systems are optimally sized based on outside design temperature of 20F (below that the upfront cost of the recirculating loops and constant pumping cost become excessive). As mentioned above, the downside is how to heat below 20F. Antidotal accounts of these systems vary widely.
Took a CEU class on super insulated houses last December (complete R 60 exterior envelope = 18 inch walls/floor/ceiling and expensive windows) that heat/cool with a single split system air to air heat pump unit and supplement here in the great white north with in-duct electric coil (the capacity of a hair dryer). 2 inch PVC is used for interior ductwork with a small air to air energy recovery unit. Very few have been built due to extreme upfront costs.
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Tom, you have an excellent retirement strategy. I've done much the same thing (new HVAC, refinanced the house for 15 years, improved insulation, appliances, etc), INVESTING in our retirement by cutting long-term costs. I also buy used cars and keep them for 10+ years. Now is not the problem, the future could be. We are 64 and 61 respectively, and both have health concerns on the horizon. We figure 3-4 years max of full-time work before we have to put up with each other full time.
I even consider my audio system an investment. Music (TURN THAT DAMNED THING DOWN!!!!!) will be an important part of my retirement life so I'm making my system the best I can reasonably afford. :thumb:
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What I did not mention is my 4 mortgages and an equity line. I plan to sell 2 properties to pay off all 4 sometime in the next few years. The condo goes first during 2016 so I can take advantage of my tax credits from the solar install. We don't earn enough to use it otherwise. Selling the condo will eliminate the mortgage on our primary residence. For cars we have a low mileage 2 wheel drive 1997 Tacoma and a 2006 Prius with 107,000 miles. At the rate we drive, they will last us another 20 years but we will probably reduce to one car (possibly electric) in another 5-7 years.
On the audio front I think it is a good idea to set yourself up for the duration now and to concentrate on reliable brands who will continue to exist. Some of our favorites are one guy operations and he is often not young. There are 20 Jeff Rowlands, Nelson Passes and Richard Vandersteens for every Vinnie Rossi or Dan Wright. Turning to headphones could be a good strategy as well. They cost less, require less space, and don't create the same kind of conflict with the spouse, although there is always the issue of ignoring her while strapped in.
My big fear is runaway inflation. I'm pretty well set to endure through the trajectory we are on but a loss of SS or Medicare (or both) and/or a $15/gallon gas price or exponential increases in food pricing will kill us.
That's why I would like to keep at least one rental - it gives us something that is realistically pegged to cost of living increases.
Does anyone else have a strategy to share? We've gone off on a tangent but it's one that applies to a large percentage of us. And the energy angle seems to have been pretty thoroughly covered.
As usual, Thunderbrick and JLM represent the voice of reason. When I offer a reason, my wife calls it an excuse.
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This is a good blog about retirement and consuming less... the guy lives in the Boulder area, I met him a couple weeks ago. There is an associated forum you may be interested in too.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
I'm nowhere near retirement but it's never too early to start planning. I have done a lot of different things in my life which has been great but now it's time to settle down. I intend to continue with ZenWave for the next few decades as I enjoy doing it...
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This is a good blog about retirement and consuming less... the guy lives in the Boulder area, I met him a couple weeks ago. There is an associated forum you may be interested in too.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
I'm nowhere near retirement but it's never too early to start planning. I have done a lot of different things in my life which has been great but now it's time to settle down. I intend to continue with ZenWave for the next few decades as I enjoy doing it...
That is an awesome resource, thanks so much for posting that - much reading ahead of me!
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That is an awesome resource, thanks so much for posting that - much reading ahead of me!
Agree completely. My kind of slacker. And he likes rent properties - just the sort of reinforcement I like.
One thing he mentioned was the importance of recognizing enough when you have it. Also his dwelling on the importance of being happy and always making decisions based on that.
I lived in the mountains just west of Boulder (wallstreet) for a little over 10 years - I wonder if I know this guy.
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There's too many people who don't understand the concept of money (I know some of them) and never learned it and never will (and I've tried helping some of them to no avail). Part of the crisis with the mortgage companies years back was due to lots of people thinking the equity in their house was the same thing as an ATM machine withdrawal. When real estate values went down their investment gains in the home were gone. Some good info at that site.
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Kinda like explaining the difference between spending and investing to my wife.
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I hum all my favorite songs to myself, that's how responsible I am!
there's a little more to it than one hybrid electric car verses another. The Volt will easily charge in less than eight hours (over night) for a 50 mile round trip. The current used shows up at about two dollars a day, or two thirds of a gallon of gas. The next generation will probably show a ligit 75 miles per charge, even though several are claiming 100 miles on a charge. We'll just have to see. The battery packs are also climate limited; even though 80% of the end users have no idea about this. Twenty degree and colder weather will shorten the drive radius about 33%. Just the nature of the beast! I worked for the company that made hybrid drives work (others tried prior), and are probably building systems that are a minimum of six levels higher in development right now. The next issue that everyone refuses to address is the internal combustion engine used to get you thru the day. Gasoline engines are at best a compromise, and the best engine is a reconfigured diesel engine ( flat torque cure and a very low rpm). The next issue is the "switching computer". Closely guarded, and now near impossible to steal and copy. Toyota got caught, and ended up with one of the highest fines ever leveled against a company years back. Kinda funny as the technology they stole was flawed! The source is due out of jail in 24 months.
glt
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Yes, and figures have been proposed that we have the ability to feed maybe 2 billion people without using oil. Thus if we ran out of oil today, 5 billion would starve. The figures are arbitrary of course, but it gives an idea of the scale we would be dealing with without petroleum. Running out of gas for our cars will be the least of the problems.
funny you posted that, as I spoke with a friend that is a farmer along with his Dad and Brother In Law. They farm almost 3000 acres. He used one of four tractors almost daily in the warmer months, and one is a big four wheel drive 12 cylinder job ($$$). I thought he was nuts. He tells me in the long run he comes out ahead using it in very large plots. Small plots he uses the other stuff.
gary
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DO NOT WASTE ENERGY !
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=121770)
Good discussion.......however, Taulisa, I find it funny you have a thread about not wasting energy, when you also have a thread about your Symphonic Line Pure Class A mono-blocks, here: :scratch:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132926.msg1433419#new
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Good discussion.......however, Taulisa, I find it funny you have a thread about not wasting energy, when you also have a thread about your Symphonic Line Pure Class A mono-blocks, here: :scratch:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132926.msg1433419#new
This seems like a valid observation. How in hell do you reconcile the obvious contradiction in these two threads?
As Davidson pointed out though, the discussion has been very good. So I have to thank TAULISA for starting it and hope that he can come to grips with his conundrum or hypocrisy or whatever is driving him.
I have a patio door in the east wall of my dining room that represents a pretty big energy drain in the winter. Because the patio is covered, the eastern sun has very little impact in summer but I can feel the cold passing right through the glass in winter. Any suggestions about how to deal with this problem economically? BTW, this is a wood framed assembly with only one side opening on hinges.
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Any suggestions about how to deal with this problem economically? BTW, this is a wood framed assembly with only one side opening on hinges.
Not sure what one defines as economically. In an old house, I wanted more space and a better view of the woods in back and built a 3x7 bump out with Atrium doors and glass side panels (all low E). Other options would be a better door, insulating drapes (e.g. - http://www.amazon.com/Best-Home-Fashion-Insulated-Blackout/dp/B004AKHOXW/ref=sr_1_3?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1433097954&sr=1-3&keywords=thermal+window+curtains) , etc.
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In a former home I made a foam filled plug/cover for the offending door in the winter.
In warm weather the ventilation was of higher value so the door stayed. French doors I believe are a better thermal value then the slider.
My $.02 :thumb:
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Long ago I rented a place with crappy windows and insulated drapes, they do work well. Probably not as well as better windows/doors but much more economical. You could do drapes now and windows down the line as well...
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This seems like a valid observation. How in hell do you reconcile the obvious contradiction in these two threads?
As Davidson pointed out though, the discussion has been very good. So I have to thank TAULISA for starting it and hope that he can come to grips with his conundrum or hypocrisy or whatever is driving him.
I have a patio door in the east wall of my dining room that represents a pretty big energy drain in the winter. Because the patio is covered, the eastern sun has very little impact in summer but I can feel the cold passing right through the glass in winter. Any suggestions about how to deal with this problem economically? BTW, this is a wood framed assembly with only one side opening on hinges.
When I was just out of college and living in an apartment with crappy aluminum frame windows I went to Home Depot and picked up weather proofing shrink wrap. It's double-sticky tape that you put around the molding, then stretch the plastic across the window and attach to the tape, then take a hair dryer to it to pull it taut. Not very attractive, but made a huge difference in the comfort of the room and electric bill (had electric baseboard heaters).
Something to consider if you're not ready to replace the doors with more energy efficient models.
AC
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My preferred remedy is to enclose the patio and create an airlock area. Because of energy regulations, I can't possibly insulate the roof of this place with enough value to allow heating. Between a rock and a hard place, as they say out here in the wild, wild west.
The county building guy told me outright that I can build whatever I want as long as it is unheated --- and we don't care if you bring in an electric heater after inspection. I wanted to run a third zone off my boiler to create radiant floor heat but they won't permit that without R38 in the ceiling. There is a disconnected 220 line out there already so I suppose I could do an end run, but the cost of electric heat sure spits in the face of all my other efforts. Then again, all I want to do is keep plants alive year round. Here in Colorado we take certain crops very seriously.
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My preferred remedy is to enclose the patio and create an airlock area. Because of energy regulations, I can't possibly insulate the roof of this place with enough value to allow heating. Between a rock and a hard place, as they say out here in the wild, wild west.
The county building guy told me outright that I can build whatever I want as long as it is unheated --- and we don't care if you bring in an electric heater after inspection. I wanted to run a third zone off my boiler to create radiant floor heat but they won't permit that without R38 in the ceiling. There is a disconnected 220 line out there already so I suppose I could do an end run, but the cost of electric heat sure spits in the face of all my other efforts. Then again, all I want to do is keep plants alive year round. Here in Colorado we take certain crops very seriously.
Will they let you run electrical outlets? If so then a plug in baseboard heater is not a big deal (or a window/wall room A/C unit). Building permits are weird in a lot of places. I wanted to smack the plumbing inspector when I finished the basement in my old VA house. I had an area in the basement bedroom that was behind the shower in the bathroom. Rather than leave it as almost unusable (about 3 feet wide) space in the unfinished area, I recessed a 2-level built in desk (one for the monitor and one for the keyboard and mouse). Rather than run wires around the bend (and trip over them), I put PVC in the wall for the printer cable, A/V cable to the receiver and speaker cables from the receiver to the indoor/outdoor speakers on brackets in the corners. He threatened to flunk me for plumbing 3 times for that (I had to legitimately fix a couple of issues) and I was ready to blow my stack as he wasn't really pleasant about it (and they let builders get away with anything). Glad you're into agriculture :lol:
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Will they let you run electrical outlets? If so then a plug in baseboard heater is not a big deal (or a window/wall room A/C unit). Building permits are weird in a lot of places. I wanted to smack the plumbing inspector when I finished the basement in my old VA house. I had an area in the basement bedroom that was behind the shower in the bathroom. Rather than leave it as almost unusable (about 3 feet wide) space in the unfinished area, I recessed a 2-level built in desk (one for the monitor and one for the keyboard and mouse). Rather than run wires around the bend (and trip over them), I put PVC in the wall for the printer cable, A/V cable to the receiver and speaker cables from the receiver to the indoor/outdoor speakers on brackets in the corners. He threatened to flunk me for plumbing 3 times for that (I had to legitimately fix a couple of issues) and I was ready to blow my stack as he wasn't really pleasant about it (and they let builders get away with anything). Glad you're into agriculture :lol:
I'm into this kind of agriculture just because I can be. Haven't yet decided the ultimate fate of the crop. It's been a long time since the stuff played any role in my life.
As for the room, it's a 12 x 12 slab with a post and beam support of a shed roof with 2/12 pitch. I'm thinking of putting in a platform with insulation and decking. Then walls, windows and a door. Crude will be OK. It's not going to be 4 season living space with what we have to spend. Although there is room in my life for crowd funding. If anyone wants to have their name painted prominently inside this structure, contact me for a rate sheet.
Basically, my goals here are greenhouse and air lock support for the patio door. Please let me know if you have a better idea. I'm no builder.
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Macro jack,
I've been an avid tomato gardener (okay, perhaps I get a wee bit carried away at times) for more than a decade. This has resulted in the need to extend my growing season.
There is a double tent method for growing things outside when it's simply too cold for the plants to survive. Use 6 mil plastic. It comes in folded rolls that open out to 20 feet wide (available in different widths) by however long you purchased it. Create a frame using light weight fencing (deer fence, chicken wire, etc.). Drape the plastic sheet over this frame. Construct a similar but smaller frame inside the first frame and drape the plastic over it.
The result is a tent within a tent. Each tent is separated by a dead air space of a few inches - 6" works well. So long as you maintain this dead air space, you'll enjoy an easily heated growing space. As cold as it gets in Colorado, you may wish to first enclose the patio space in a wind block of some sort. I'd have to see photos of the intended space to be sure.
Nutrient requirements for tomato plants are remarkably close to the nutrient requirements of a certain other cash crop that is now legal in both Colorado and Oregon.
I can create an easy to make list of nutrients used to feed tomato plants, how to prepare soil, beds, watering systems, etc, etc. I've been called a tomato head for good reason.
Michael
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One of the best things to do is seal penetrations into your attic and put as much blown in insulation there as possible. If you have a basement, use rigid insulation on the wall and air seal everything. If you ever take a room back to the studs, consider upgrading the insulation. These options aren't as sexy as others, but they work well.
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One of the best things to do is seal penetrations into your attic and put as much blown in insulation there as possible.
That is what I did, more blown insulation.
Here in Tucson we need to keep the house from heating up so I have been working on insulating my place like a thermos bottle, new doors are next but since I have to make them (that is my business after all) they will also be last.
So far I have:
Replace the roof with heavier grade architectural shingles but passed on the radiant barrier underlayment, the cost/gain ratio was not worth it for my small house (750 sq. ft.). The small house was also planned to lower my overall energy usage by not heating and cooling space I never use.
A new 14 SEER Tempstar gas pack sits on top of the roof.
Single glazed steel casement windows were replaced with Marvin Integrity with Low E3-366 glass, the West facing windows have practically zero heat gain, amazing stuff.
The house was outsulated with 1" high density foam and stuccoed with a marble dust plaster with integrated color so I never need to paint, the 1" foam keeps direct sun from heating up the concrete block so there is less indoor radiant heat.
The attic has R30 blown insulation on top of the existing R19 for a total of R49.
During the summer I turn the thermostat up to 84 degrees (from 78) when I leave in the morning, when I return at noon the inside temp is still below 84 and the A/C never went on.
I paid between $32-$41/month for electricity between Oct. and May (8 months)
June, July, August, and Sept. electric costs were between $82 and $92/month.
I have ceiling fans in every room and the house it very comfortable year round.
Wayne
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You can overdo insulation as loose (batt or blown) compresses under it's own weight to the point that trapped air (the essence of most forms of insulation) is squeezed out. About 15 inches is the limit (roughly R50).
Wayne, your concept of a thermos bottle is so true. Consider what effect 1/16 inch styrofoam cup has with 180F coffee on one side and your hand on the other. Eliminating all the gaps (infiltration and short circuits in the insulation) is the key. I used Structural Insulated Panels (SIP) in part of my house. They are nothing more than OSB (flake board) glued to both sides of styrofoam. These can be used for foundation walls, above grade walls, and ceiling/roof panels, even floors. They are amazingly strong (mine span a 16 foot roof in the great white north). When fully developed your house becomes a plywood refrigerator, with no gaps created by framing. Cost is high, but erection time is minimal. Electricians don't like them (the panels have tubes melted into the foam at 18 inches and 48 inches above the floor and vertically every 4 feet so running wires is similar to using conduit without radiused corners). The styrofoam comes in various thicknesses, up to 12 inches (R60).
So sealing against air infiltration, eliminating thermal breaks (short circuits), doors, and especially windows become critical as you go super-insulated. These homes also need air-to-air heat exchangers to efficiently allow a controlled amount of outside air in.