AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: Tyson on 12 Oct 2004, 12:16 am
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RMAF - wow, what a cool weekend. This was my first audioshow and it was a blast, but it was also exhausing and a heck of a lot of work. I spent a big part of 2 days (Saturday and Sunday) going from room to room, listening to the test tracks on my compilation CD's.
I'm going to post some impressions of some rooms, mainly about rooms that sounded particularly good, or rooms that didn't sound as good as I know they could have (ie, I've heard the equipment in other settings that sounded better than the rooms at the show).
Before starting, I should point out that after hearing a slew of digital amps, I DO NOT LIKE THE WAY DIGITAL AMPS SOUND. That means any room with a digital amp in the chain is going to get, at best, a thumbs sideways vote (most get thumbs down). This is strictly my personal opinion, so take it for what its worth (not much, obvously). I also have a preference for large speakers, and tend to dislike horns and single-driver speakers.
First room I hit was the Bolder/VMPS room. I'm a friend of Wayne, and I helped do some of the initial setup (Hagerman tube preamp, JaZZ digital amps, Trinaural processor). I came back by on Saturday after the system had been tuned by Brian Cheney (VMPS Prez & Owner). I thought it sounded pretty bad, not nearly as good as it sounded back when I heard them in a stereo setup a week before. I figured it was just the Trinaural setup screwing everything up. But I was wrong. Came back the next day after all the equipment had been on for 24 hours and the sound was "much" better. I'm still not convinced about the Trinaural setup being an improvement over stereo (especially in a room as small as the hotel's), but it didn't sound worse than the stereo setup I'd heard the week before.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1940)
One room that was a big disappointment - the Rowland Design Group, with Rowland digital amps (the 201's, I think) and Cabasse speakers (the ones that look like War of the Worlds aliens). Sounded terrible. Not the worst sound of the show, but not far from it either. Vocals alternated between chesty and nasaly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1965)
A room that really stood out to me was the SP Tech room. They had a HT setup in one room and a 2 channel setup in another. The 2 channel setup is what really got my attention. These things could play LOUD and CLEAN. Very dynamic (macro and micro) and very smooth. They were the most impressive speakers at the show. My only criticism would be a touch of hardness in the 1khz-2khz region. Overall I was very impressed. Pic borrowed from zybar :-)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=3826)
The Boulder amps and Avalon Acoustics room sounded good, but the dynamics were rounded off. It was certainly a musical and pleasant sound, but quite phasey sounding (ie, backup vocals sounded like they were in a seperate room from the main vocalist, etc). Some people might really like this ("Wow, listen to that HUGE soundstage"), but I thought that particular aspect was pretty unnatural.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1936)
My vote for most musical room of the show goes to Red Rock audio, they were running ESP loud speakers (really excellent speakers, IMO), and their own Renaissance Power Amplifier. Normally I'd consider the sound too laid back for my tastes, but it was so involving and seductive. Superlative sound.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=3837)
The room that gets my vote for 2nd most musical and overall best value goes to the Odyssey rooms (both of them). The big room running all Odyssey gear (Stratos, Tempest, SL CDP and SL turntable, and a pair of Lorelei speakers) was very musical and involving and way, way cheaper than the Red Rocks room. And to top it off, they had a 2nd room with speakers (Epiphony), amp (Khartago), preamp (Etesian), and cables (Groneberg) for under $1500 total that was almost as good as their main room. My non-audiophile friend who I brough along said point blank he liked the sound of that room better than anything else he heard.
Pic borrowed from zybar :-)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=3908)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=3907)
The Modwright room was a disappointment, running his Truth modded Sony 999 player into the new line stage, to a pair of Channel Island digital monoblock amps and a pair of GR-Research Delucio speakers. I'm pretty sure the hashy and fairly unmusical sound was due to the CI digital amps as I've heard the Delucio's sound excellent in another system, and the warmth of the tubed CD player did not come through at all. Replace the amps and I have no doubt that this would have been one killer sounding room.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1961)
Speaking of GR-Research, I got to hear both of their rooms. Both were using Dodd Audio Electronics and GR-Research speakers. The AV-2 Speakers in their "small" room sounded really excellent. Not quite on the level of their excellent Delucio's, but very good none-the-less. But, the big shocker for me was the Alpha's. I've heard the Alpha's before at a local Denverite's house before and I thought they were seriously flawed and I could hardly listen to them. But at the show, with more room treatments and being run off 120 watt Dodd Audio tubed monoblocks they sounded fantastic. Every criticism I had of them before was gone except for the lack of extension in the very high treble. But other than that they were very musical, very natural, and had GREAT dynamics - my kind of speaker!!! The sound of the Dodd and the Alpha's really embarassed a lot of other very expensive rooms using very, very expensive tube amps and preamps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=3836)
The Audio Federation room was a very pleasant sounding room running Edge Amps, Marten Design Coltrane loudspeakers and Nordost wiring, but I didn't think it sounded appreciably better than a lot of other rooms running much less expensive gear. Very smooth, very musical, but a bit lacking in microdynamics and a bit slow on macrodynamics. Not worth the $150k or so price tag....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1933)
The Usher Audio room had absolutely beautiful looking speakers, superbly finished. The sound was good but not great. In the same price range I think the Odyssey and GR-Research speakers sounded better (but the Usher's win on looks).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1976)
Tyler Acoustics was a bit disappointing. Not sure if it was the small room, or the tube amps, but their Woodmere speakers sound much, much smaller than they were. (zybar's picture)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1615)
I was also disappointed in the AV123 room. At least when I was in there, the RS1000 had bright highs and very boomy bass. But the bass problem was most likely a room issue. And I have to say the midrange was remarkable smooth and free from the ringing I thought the metal driver would have. (zybar's pic)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1614)
The Cherry Creek Audio room was a room I liked a lot. They were running Magnepan 20.1's of a pair of Krell monoblocks. The sound was very good overall. My only criticism would be that there was definitely some ringing to the sound, and there was far more room/speaker interaction than I like.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1947)
I heard the Daedalus Audio room on Saturday, and I thought it was pleasant, but a bit lacking in drive and dynamics. A little soft sounding, but very nice and easy to listen to.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1950)
I skipped the JMLabs room and the B&W rooms because I know from past experience I don't like either of those speaker lines and there was too much else to see & do at the show.
The Kharma/Carey room was also a bit disappointing. Not that it didn't sound good, it did (sounded pretty similar to the Marten Designs Coltrane & Edge amp room), but it was just a bit soft on microdynamics. Tonal balance and smoothness were very good, but honestly overall it was a bit boring sounding.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=1959)
I'm sure I'm forgetting some rooms (I'll check my notes when I get home), and there were quite a few rooms I didn't get to go into, but that's a pretty good list of my impressions.
Other notes, it was very cool to meet my fellow AC'ers (you know who you are) and the various manufacturers, many of them putting on a good show and all of them gracious (they let me play my "room-clearing" music :-) )
Also, I found that there was absolutely NO relation between price and performance. Some very, very expensive high end gear did not perform any better than some much more reasonably priced gear, and that is despite the fact that the expensive gear usually was in bigger and (acoustically) better rooms. My advice to everyone is to listen to as much equipment as possibe and form your own judgements. Some highly touted (and very expensive) gear at the show sounded terrible, and at the same time some relative unknowns sounded excellent.
I also didn't hear any speaker or setup that I liked as much as the RM40's I have at home. The speakers at the show that had the smoothness of the 40's didn't have the dynamics or resolution, and other speakers that did have the dynamics didn't have the musicality and smoothness of the 40's. Of course every piece of gear in my system has been bought based on my personal preferences, so the fact that I like it so much should hardly come as a suprise ;-)
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Excellent impressions - gave me a taste of the show from way over here on the east.
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Glad to hear somebody say - you don't like the sound of digital amps at all, ever.
Cool.
Not my opinion, but honestly great to hear it expressed, with all the love going around for them.
I happen to dig it, and am persuing single driver speakers... Guess Tyson and I are across the fence from each other - hey, the grass looks good over there too!
Thanks for the write up, and expressing your opinions, that is what makes this place fun! :D
Mark in Canada
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Tyson - did you get a chance to stop by the Green Mountain Audio room and hear their new monitors?
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No, that was one room I missed and I'm pretty upset I didn't get to hear them (just ran out of time). I've wanted to hear Green Mountain speakers for a long time :-(
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Tyson, great synopsis. Thanks.
Tell us more about the SP Tech room. They are getting unanimous approval from all the roving AC reports, but no one has detailed why. What kind of music did you bring with you, and how did it sound....that kind of thing? (Listen to me...I feel like I'm demanding a review...sorry....but it's like....Tyson gave us the best review, let's ask Tyson!!) :)
Thanks,
Ted-B
P.S. Very disappointed to hear that the Modwright room was digitally harsh! I absolutely love my Platinum 999ES and looking forward to good things from Dan's linestage.
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Synapse review of the SP Tech room, using Natalie Merchant and Nine Inch Nails:
Merchant's voice was smooth, but still showing the texture that conveys emotion. Very good coherency to the sound, leading to good "boogie" factor (my toes were tapping hard). Very good bass texture and impact. Great tracking of microdynamics. Great imaging. Good high end resolution (Cymbals shimmered and decayed properly). Best thing was that you could move to almost any point of the room and they sounded 90% as good as the sounded in the sweet spot, and tonal balance did not change (that's pretty remarkable).
Nine Inch Nails sounded sinister, just like it should. Part of the track consists of him whispering, and then backing his own vocals with more whispers. The SP Tech speakers let you hear this. When the song got loud, fast, and crazy, the SP Techs kept the instruments seperated and kept a coherent presentation. They weren't the most "musical" speakers at the show, but they were the most impressive. If that touch of hardness in the 1-2 khz range could be ironed out, they would have been best of show for musicallity too (and given my RM40's a serious run for their money, IMO).
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Thanks, Tyson. Great, very frank comments.
What don't you tend to like about digital amps (esp when you've heard them powering more conventional multi-driver speakers)?
Too bad you didn't get to hear the Modwright 999ES powered by an amp you were familiar with - I would have been very interested in your impressions.
Cheers,
- Jay
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Thanks anyway Tyson. So you like the Odyssey Loreleis. They are also on my potential new speaker list. Did you get to listen to them much?
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RMAF - wow, what a cool weekend. This was my first audioshow and it was a blast, but it was also exhausing and a heck of a lot of work. I spent a big part of 2 days (Saturday and Sunday) going from room to room, listening to the test tracks on my compilation CD's.
I'm going to post some impressions of some rooms, mainly about rooms that sounded particularly good, or rooms that didn't sound as good as I know they could have (ie, I've heard the equipment in other settings that sounded better than the r ...
Very nice Tyson.
I am working on a similar write-up, but I spent most of the day sleeping (my body got all screwed up from being in the UK and Denver all week).
I didn't spend anytime in the Rowland room, but I obviously feel very different from you when it comes to the 201's. But that is a great thing about this hobby - very few absolute rights and wrongs.
Sounds like I should have made it back to the Alpha room. What I heard on Friday was so far removed from what you described.
The Daedalus room was sounding very dynamic on Sunday and improved a lot each day. This was achieved with a little better placement, room treatments, and placing Sistrum platforms under the speakers. This room more than others showed what can be achieved by paying attention to the details.
Great meeting you.
George
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Synapse review of the SP Tech room, using Natalie Merchant and Nine Inch Nails:
OK, I'm dying to know which NIN track you were using :lol:
Just so happens I just got done listening to Pretty Hate Machine at absolutely insane SPL's (my wife was at the store). A few days ago I was doing the same thing with The Downward Spiral.
Oh, NIN are getting ready to release a new album...on vinyl :mrgreen:
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The sound of the Rowland room might have been the fault of the speakers, as I also heard the Cabasses in another room (driven by tubes) and they sounded just as bad.
It was definitely cool meeting you, next time we'll have to drink a lot more :-)
Also, your experience with the Daedelus room and my experience with the GR-Research room and the VMPS room just go to show that the vendors with rooms at a show are learning and tweaking to their rooms as the show goes on. What is heard on Friday or Saturday may not be what is heard in the same room on Sunday.
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The NIN track was "I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally" off The Fragile CD. Great track.
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The NIN track was "I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally" off The Fragile CD. Great track.
Tyson,
What was the cd that had Johnny Cash singing "Hurt"?
George
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The NIN track was "I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally" off The Fragile CD. Great track.
Tyson,
What was the cd that had Johnny Cash singing "Hurt"?
George
That's Johnny Cash's American IV: The Man Comes Around
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Thank you.
George
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Also, your experience with the Daedelus room and my experience with the GR-Research room and the VMPS room just go to show that the vendors with rooms at a show are learning and tweaking to their rooms as the show goes on. What is heard on Friday or Saturday may not be what is heard in the same room on Sunday.
I couldn't agree more. I thought the Alphas sounded no where as good on Fri at the show compared to how I remembered them at Turk's place a few months ago. In my opinion the DA-1's got bettered every day and i was lucky enough to hear them all 3 days
I listened to a lot of the different rooms. There were too many to recount but I will list my standouts. My favorite 3 rooms top to bottom were:
1. Daedalus: DA-1's being driven by the Bultler's
On the last day of the show the DA-1's were sounding very, very good. I had heard track 2 off of The Bad Plus's 'These are Vistas' cd on just about every system I auditioned at the show. No where else did the piano sound more pleasing and for lack of a better description, sound like a piano. The upright bass sounded more natural and real than on any other rig. These speakers are extremely dynamic and powerful. They do something that really draws me into the music, which is come as close to imitating a live performance as possible.
2. SP Technology: Revelations
These speakers sounded great from the first day. They do a lot of things right. They image well and have a large sound field. They are very aggresive and powerful. The bass was the tightest and cleanest I've ever heard.
3. Odyssey: both rooms
I really just enjoyed these rooms. I wasn't so worried about opinions or perceptions here. Two people were overheard using the phrase "I feel like I've come home" when desribing this room, a perfect desription of the sound. These rooms were the easiest to listen to. I can't really think of anything audiophile to say about these systems, they were just pleasing with no fatigue. Like everyone else has already said, they are the best bang for your buck without a doubt.
Sean
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Thanks for all your comments....great info !!! :)
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I didn't make it to the show, but curious about Tysons comments.
Maybe you assume you don't like the amps since they're the component you're least familair with, or just the fact that you don't like "digital" amplifiers (actually, they're completely analog).
I didn't get to hear them with the associated gear, so I really don't know what the system sounded like as a whole, but the amps are simply the best I've heard with my VR-4jr's. Albert Von Schweikert and Dan Wright are the only others to hear them before the show. Albert thought they were amazing and Dan seems to like them as well. Did anyone else hear them at the show? Would love to hear your comments.
Dusty_V
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I'm also scratching my head over Tyson's comments about hating the sound of digital amps, given his raves for the Boulder Modded Panny digital receiver. Perhaps you could elaborate/clarify, Tyson? :scratch:
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Sure, I'll be happy to elaborate. It all started with the modded panny I own. Basically I was very impressed with it the first few times I heard it in my system, dynamic as all get out, smooth as glass, neutral, quiet, very resolving. It did everything "right" and was very "impressive" sounding. But then I noticed as I had it in my main system for a couple of weeks I spent less and less time listening to music. The all-digital panny just wasn't involving me on a musical level. It took me a while to figure out what was going on. There's a certain clinical-ness to the sound and a specific coloration (a certain harmonic thread-bare-ness) that I find bothersome about it. Once I was aware of it I started to hear that on all digital amps I heard, some worse than others.
Now, specifically with the Modwright room, the sound had a certain "white noise" coloration that rode on the back of the music, and the sound again was somewhat threadbare harmonically, which I figured was most likely due to the digital amps (at least Dan said they were digital). Anyway, if the amps weren't the culprit, then something else had to be, as I've heard those specific speakers sound very good in a different system. My attribution of the problem to the amps was just an educated guess based on my admitted bias against the sound of digital amps. I figured that would be more helpful than just making a blanket statement to the effect of "the sound in the Modwright room was not very good". I don't want to do that because I'm sure most, if not all, of the equipment is excellent. Hell, it may be just a synergy thing, and it just didn't produce a sound that I personally like. Obviously others have commented that they thought the room sounded great. I don't think they are "wrong" anymore than I think I am "right", it's all personal preference, and off-the-cuff impressions based on very brief demo time, and I hope everyone reading these posts realizes that. In truth, the only way to really be sure what was causing the sound to not be pleasing TO ME would be to take the amps out and replace them, then replace the preamp, and then the source, until the sound filled out and solidified. But of course all that would tell us in the end is that I personally didn't like it, which more than likely would have little to no bearing on whether another person would like it. Whew! It's a lot of work pulling your foot out of your mouth and your head out of your a$$ at the same time, glad I don't have to do it very often :-D
As for the whole digital amp thing, don't get me wrong, lots of people seem to love digital amps, I used to be one of them. But I'm not anymore.
I will say that the panny does an outstanding job in my HT, where I don't really care about musicality or harmonic richness, but I do care about dynamics, clarity, and impact. The Panny supplies all of these in spades and I love it in that role.
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Tyson,
Thank you for your RMAF report. Made me feel a bit like I went to the show.
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I thought the CI Audio mono amps were op-amp designs like 47 Labs or Scott Nixon's stuff.
Good write-up Tyson, hopefully we can get some in the next few days from others fortunate enough to attend.
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unless dan-n-dusty were using the yet-to-be-released cia digital amps, then the amps *are* in fact chip amps, like the 47-labs, etc... no resemblance to digital amps.
doug s.
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unless dan-n-dusty were using the yet-to-be-released cia digital amps, then the amps *are* in fact chip amps, like the 47-labs, etc... no resemblance to digital amps.
doug s.
They were.
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unless dan-n-dusty were using the yet-to-be-released cia digital amps, then the amps *are* in fact chip amps, like the 47-labs, etc... no resemblance to digital amps.
doug s.
They were.
they were *what*? dusty said these are the present 40wpc analog amps...
doug s.
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The amps at RMAF were in fact the new D-100's, which are Class D switching amps. I don't know why people seem to think Class D means "digital" when it primarily defines efficiency. Some Class D's are digital, but those are amplifiers that have a digital input and use the amp circuit as for it's D/A.
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This is an interesting write-up as it basically covers the rooms I missed due to time constraints (I tried to hit Odyssey, but they had started packing up by the time I got to them).
My favorite sound of the rooms I caught was the McIntosh XRT28, which was surprising because I've never been a fan of their equipment. It was at least partially because they sounded excellent despite the room.
In many rooms I could be found squating on the ground a few feet in front of the listening position. Lots of the setups sounded much nicer nearfield, presumably because of room interactions.
I agree that the Audio Federation room sounded very nice, but had one of the largest price tags at the show. It seemed a little laid back, but that might have just been the need for a little more volume. Tonally I thought it was right on.
I liked the Tyler room. I didn't hear my stuff in there, but the tape version of Scarborough Fair that was playing sounded very nice. Maybe not a 'big' sound, but very refined.
The RM30s sounded very nice, although maybe a bit bright. They were running as a trio when I listened and I didn't hear them in stereo.
I did get a chuckle out of the German metal music coming from Overkill audio - an unexpected genre. It was interesting to see the wavebender drivers (is that what they're called?) in person.
I wasn't very excited by Ocean Acoustics - I tried Natalie Merchant in there and it seemed a bit thin in the vocals.
The Sonus Faber Stradivari were putting out a very nice piano sound when I was in there. There wasn't a chance to play my own stuff at the moment and we ran out of time to make it back there before 4.
I felt the AV123 RS1Ks sounded better the last time I heard them in a larger room. I'm surprised about the bright highs comment from Tyson on this one though.
I wasn't wowed by the RedRock/ESP room, but it wasn't my music so it's hard to say. It definitely sounded very nice, but I liked other setups more. I agree that it was a bit laid back.
I had heard the GR Research AV-1 in my own home before, so we kind of skipped over the AV-2, but stopped to check out the equipment and chat about Cryotweaks for a minute. The LS was realizing the potential I heard at Jerry's. Definitely a nice setup. Unfortunately Danny wasn't in either room at the time, so I wasn't able to meet up with him like I had hoped. I did get a chance to say hi to Gary though.
I wasn't particularly moved by the Cabasse setup (ones with separate bass modules, not the setup in the Rowland room), but don't recall why at the moment.
The main track I was using for the day was Orland Cachaito Lopez which has a combination of percussion, flute and bass. A good variety of sounds with sections containing a lot of layers. I think I played it down at Jerry's for the AlphaLS/RM40 comparison. There was a huge variation in the prominence of the flute among systems, ranging from nearly lost to piercing. I don't know what the sound was like at the recording, so I can't comment on how accurate each was, but it was an interesting experience none the less.
On the piercing side were the Epiphany 20-21s (holy cow those are tall at 7.5' - see my pic in the other thread). Other than that, they sounded quite good. If I hadn't hit that room just as they were preparing to leave, I would have tried the 12s witht he same track.
If you haven't seen the other thread, my pics are here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13621.msg117549#117549
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Regarding the Modwright room,
Maybe it wasn't the amps, maybe it was the linestage, maybe it was the CDP (although a tubed CDP seems the least likely to cause the slightly bleached out sound). Maybe it was the cables. Maybe it was placement (but I don't think it was, they seemed to be placed pretty well and the room wasn't bad at all). My guess would be either the linestage or the amps as the likely culprit for what I heard.
But, like I said before, I'm just one guy, and I did a quick 10 minute demo, so hopefully no-one takes any of these impressions (for any of the rooms) too seriously. As I said in my first post, the only way to know how something sounds (and whether you like how it sounds), is to listen to it in your own system. Synergy and preferences count for a hell of a lot.
Anyway, that's the last I'm posting on the subject, if anyone wants to talk about it further, please PM me.
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Brad, I missed you at the show :-(
I did get to hear the Stradivaris playing some jazz, and it sounded very good from the upper bass through the high frequencies. But when I was there they had a terrible problem with low bass. This is probably something that would not have been noticable as much on a piano recording as it would have with jazz and an upright acoustic bass. Again, I thought the sound was good, but nowhere near the "transcendental" experience that would be required to justify the system's price, IMO.
Which brings me to another point, based on what I heard at the show, very few rooms "justified" their price from a pure performance standpoint, and even fewer offered "high value" equipment. The VMPS room did (because I know what the 30's can do when not tethered to digital amps), the Odyssey rooms did (in spades), the GR-Research room did (both speakers and Dodd Tube amps were excellent), and the Usher room did. Other than that I can't say I heard many rooms that offered very good bang-for-the-buck. Granted I didn't hear all of the rooms, but this was my impressions of the ones that I did hear.
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I thought the Rowland/ Cabasee combo sounded particularly good. And no the Rowland amps certainly are not digital. Jeff R. was 'in-room' friday, and was as gracious and friendly as ever.
There was nothing 'wrong' with the Maggie's 20r's. It's just that speakers that big they aren't designed to be placed in a 12' wide room with a glass rear wall.
In the Avalon room the speakers were simply too far apart for proper imaging. The actual sound qualtiy when paired with the Boulder amps was astounding for a relatively small 2-way.
There continue to be significant issues with the top-end of the Alpha LA's. And nothing short of a complete redesign is going to fix that. Neo 8's just don't work as tweeters. A chat comparitively long with Ken Bates (Epiphany) was most enlightning in that regard.
One of the most interesting speakers was the Dali Megaline. Possibly the finest top end and midrange on the planet, combined with the worst midbass and absolutely no bottom end.
A completely unexpected surprise with the VRS Audio Systems music server. Completely blew away my preconceptions about using a PC as a source. The price of admission is a little steep, but in time that may mellow out.
Another pleasant surprise were the Lansing 'Hartfield' reproductions. Although not much bottom end, they were a most pleasant listen.
On a side note it was a hoot watching Steven Rochlin wander around in his usual color (Ferrari red, for those that don't know), but this time wearing a Nomex driving suit. He was making statements about needing to be 'flame-proof' give the nature of the internet .................
Spent time talking with Bruce Edgar, I consider that to be a treat given his age and health. A wonderful gentleman that just delights in his horns and audio in general......
Also quite literally ran into his royal majesty Robert Harley (he's too important to need to watch where he's going) . It was hysterical to see how the dealers would cowtow when he came into a room...Funny thing is that he looks just like what he is, an english major, with no formal training in audio, electronics or engineering. That must explain why the stuff he prints is such nonsense.....
Anyway big time cheers to Ron Welborne, his wife and the gang at C.A.S. for creating this event. Hopefully this it will happen again next year!
Cheers,
Sid
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I mean with 2 Stereophile shows a year, CES, and CEDIA what purpose was the show for?
I'm glad Denver folks got to hear some goods, but not like it's tough to get to SF Nov. 4th.
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I mean with 2 Stereophile shows a year, CES, and CEDIA what purpose was the show for?
I'm glad Denver folks got to hear some goods, but not like it's tough to get to SF Nov. 4th.
Keith,
I think you had some different vendors at this show vs. some of the ones you mentioned above. I know that many vendors were in Denver and not in NYC for the Stereophile show (since I attended both).
To be honest, what is the point of your question?
Does having another show (regardless of the location) cause an issue or problem?
I for one like the fact that these various shows are spread out across the year and across the country. Frankly, I liked going to Denver vs. San Fran.
George
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Edited. Must be in a bad mood or something, didn't mean to take it out on anyone. Sorry.....
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...but not like it's tough to get to SF Nov. 4th.
Not tough? For whom?
Think your position on the RMAF might be a bit egocentric? :o
DU
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From the photo's I've seen, the Denver show looked more interesting to me than the last NYC show I attended (HE 2004). Much more on the "cutting edge" !!! :)
I wish I had the time to attend !!!! :? [/list:u]
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UGH!
I just had a long response and the screwy board software screwed it up!!!
Short of it:
-Odd timing with HE show a month away in a place that is relatively close to it
-many manufacturers same as CES or HE
-is there a particular specialty? like VSASC (?) and horns/sets? smaller manufacturers?
-HE2004E was WAY down in attendance--both on consumer and manuf. level. wondering if so many shows is part of the reason
-CES is my favorite and most fun, definitely should be on everyone's list to go to
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Aren't the other main shows open only to people "in the industry", and not anyone/everyone?
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cixelsid,
Was that your first post?
Very nice, and welcome to the Circle.
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I forgot to than Tyson for such a thorough and insightful writeup. Your comments on the SP Tech seem to validate my review of them, which I believe was one of the first. I told you guys how impressive they were, even though they were not a good match for my room or my amp, but Tyson's observations were right on.
I also share a similar view on digital amplification. Your point about the white noise background was something I've been experiencing also, but couldn't verbalize. And it's so true that once you identify an anomoly, it sticks with you and you know how to recognize it from that point on, but I've been very impressed with certain aspects of digital sound, so I'm still trying to keep an open mind.
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I can only agree than amplifiers using the new ICEpower 500ASP sounds terrible. This is why I have refused to use them in 1,5 years, I HAVE tried to tweak them very much indeed, but those modules are not good. Even when for example the well known Jeff Rowland and for example JJAZ are using them the ASP500 modules can only be used to pro audio and none-audiophile HT systems, IMO. But I am certainly ready to defend to death that NOT all amplifiers with ICEpower technologysounds terrible, but the opporsite. To get a musical amp using the ICEpower technology it is not enough just to buy some modules from Bang & Olufsen ICEpower with switch mode power supply and then believe this is enough, but FAR MORE must be done. When used RIGHT this technology is the absolutely most musical sounding technology, and far beyond any class A amplifier using solid state or tubes. Just that only a few can find out how to use this technology to MUSIC.
A new way of thinking can get this technology to sound more analog than any amp ever made before, but many just don't know.
With all the best, and have a nice day,
Peter
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Aren't the other main shows open only to people "in the industry", and not anyone/everyone?
Not at all. The Stereophile shows are 100% consumer shows.
CES is more for dealers, but ask your dealer to get you a free pass. Never have heard of anyone having a problem getting in.
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Tyson,
Your observations on the Daedalus DA-1 is actually opposite to these speakers strong point:
You stated “I heard the Daedalus Audio room on Saturday, and I thought it was pleasant, but a bit lacking in drive and dynamics. A little soft sounding, but very nice and easy to listen to.”
These are the most dynamic speakers that I have ever heard. With their 96DB efficiency and the ability to handle 600 watts a side, the produce dynamics almost effortlessly. You might have walked into a quiet passage and left. Those who spend some time with these speakers (including multiple RMAF attendees) have been uniformly impressed with the drive and dynamic capability of the DA-1. They certainly are not soft sounding, but they are very easy to listen to. One RMAF attendee told me that he has not found another speaker that could produce so much sound with so little effort. That observation matches my experience as a Daedalus owner.
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Tyson,
Your observations on the Daedalus DA-1 is actually opposite to these speakers strong point:
You stated “I heard the Daedalus Audio room on Saturday, and I thought it was pleasant, but a bit lacking in drive and dynamics. A little soft sounding, but very nice and easy to listen to.”
These are the most dynamic speakers that I have ever heard. With their 96DB efficiency and the ability to handle 600 watts a side, the produce dynamics almost effortlessly. You might have walked into a quiet passage and left. Those who spend some time with these speakers (including multiple RMAF attendees) have been uniformly impressed with the drive and dynamic capability of the DA-1. They certainly are not soft sounding, but they are very easy to listen to. One RMAF attendee told me that he has not found another speaker that could produce so much sound with so little effort. That observation matches my experience as a Daedalus owner.
JCC-
I understand where you're coming from, but I will attest to the Daedalus sounding much, MUCH better after our late-night tweaking session on Saturday. The DA-1s sounded fairly pedestrian when I heard them on Saturday. I don't know that I'd call them "soft", but they definitely didn't reach out and grab you by the throat. IMO, dynamics were outstanding Sunday, as was definition and clarity.
The biggest change to me, though, was in soundstage and imaging; the phrase "night and day" comes to mind.
And I stand by my statement regarding their ability to produce better dynamics at lower volumes than any speakers I've heard. I also submit they sound more "naturally" dynamic than any speaker I've heard, again probably due to their high efficiency and high power-handling capability.
DU
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Tyson,
Your observations on the Daedalus DA-1 is actually opposite to these speakers strong point:
That may be true, but I heard what I heard, and simply reported what I heard. I used my own music, which is certainly not soft or quiet, on almost all the speakers I reported on.
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That may be true, but I heard what I heard, and simply reported what I heard. I used my own music, which is certainly not soft or quiet, on almost all the speakers I reported on.
Tyson,
I have to apologize for not getting the system tweeked until late in the show, to be honest I was never totally happy with the sound in that room…. I’ve worked with these speakers for several years and in many situations, I know how they sound and we never really got there. Live and learn, next show we’ll get there instead of just showing the potential.
Everyone hears differently and has a unique sense of what they want of music and music reproduction. Because of that I don’t view any of this as a ‘competition’. I mean it’s all pretty far removed from live music and we are just looking for something that excites us and we can live with. (I’m talking about stereo not wives, although the choices are just about as subjective…). I will say that in designing these I went for a sound that one can enjoy for a long time rather than focus on grabbing a listener’s attention, so to me “very nice and easy to listen to.” is a good thing.
Anyhow I hope you get to hear these again, and the next time I plan to do a large room with live music as well as recorded to show off the dynamic capabilities of these speakers.
thanks,
Lou
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Lou,
Well said, and I couldn't agree more. I wish I could have heard the speakers on Sunday, as everyone I talked to said they were sounding much better than they did on Saturday.
And besides that I hope no one is taking my very brief impressions very seriously in the first place....