[Houston1]

Hey guys, I need some advice.  My home theatre room is 18' long x 13' wide x 9' tall.  It has carpet with a very thick pad underneath and thick draping on each end of the room.  I have leather furniture and a large ottoman with a thick cushion in the middle to prop my feet onto.  My wife will not allow me to install room treatments at the moment due to aesthetic acceptance.  So I am stuck with a very average room acoustically.  My music taste range from classical and jazz to rock (Sting/Dave Matthews Band are more my style).  Which speaker will give me the best presentation of this music?  I am considering the Song Tower QWT versus the Veracity HT2-TL.  I want a large soundstage with good imaging.   I just don't want boomy bass.

Right now I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5's for my mains.  It is funny, but when I bought these speakers  I loved the sound and soundstage.  Ten years have passed and I have moved to a house.  I now perceive these speakers as a little muddy and harsh.  I am not sure if it is my ears getting older, room acoustics, or the speakers aging. But I swear these speakers used to sound good when I lived in a condo with cement walls. 

I am a little worried that it is my hearing because I have lost some of the high frequencies compared to when I was younger.  I may have incurred some hearing damage after being in Iraq with the Marines in 2004 and exposure to rocket/mortar explosions.

[adydula]

Number 1 and first of all:  Thank you for your service!!! Semper Fi!

I have a similar room, and have a pair of SongTowers with the Dome Tweeter. There is NO boomy bass with these speakers, its nice and tight.

I have owned many speakers in my 60 yrs and these are the best for the money out there...there a threads about people looking of the best for $2K or so and the Song's are in the sweet spot for sure. This is how I found out about the Salk speakers...I did a search for the best speakers for $2k etc...and met Jim Salk on the web and they are a first class audiophile craftsman.

The HT2L is more of the same, lower low end reponse., etc..you cant go wrong with either.

You will notice a wonderful clear mid-range and awesome vocals.

The bass when its there is taunt, tight and right on.

If price is not a problem I think I would get the HT2 TL's...I wanted to keep the budget down to $2K or so for the speakers...the HT2's were not yet invented when I bought the Song's...but I have NO regrets and they keep surprising me with their capabilites all the time.

Again either one would be great.

All the best

Alex
 aa

[mathgeek97]

Ditto what Alex said.
My room is about the same size and untreated.  The HT2-TLs sound pretty good in my room.  Honestly, they deserve better, but that's another issue.  For music, that's all the bass I'd want.
Bass-wise, the HT2-TLs dig a little lower than the STs and still stay clean, tight, and fast.  For $4K, they'd be hard to beat.  I'd also throw in a mention of the HT1-TL towers for $3K.
Another route to take is a pair of the STs along with a single or pair of Rythmic subs, either directly from Rythmic or custom made by Jim.  I couldn't do subs in my living room and keep it wife/kid friendly, so I happily went with the HT2-TL.

[Houston1]

Thank you adydula and mathgeek for the responding to my thread    I was a little nervous that the speakers would not sound accurate in an untreated room, and it is great to hear that they will still present good imaging.  I want to make sure that this will be a clear upgrade from my RF-5's.  I did not even think about the HT1-TL.  I will look into those also. 

I currently have a Definitive Technology Supercube 1.  Do you know how Jim's Rhythmics compare?

[Wayner]

If you want a large soundstage, then I suggest putting the speakers against the long wall. If you put the center of the front of the speaker 62 5/8" from the side walls and 45 1/4" from the rear, I believe your boomy bass will disappear. Also, if you want to toe your speakers to the center of frontwall (where the listener is) with both speakers, you should have almost no room nodes and a big soundstage. You may have to fool with the toe-in but this should be a good starting place. I also like the ST and HT-2's.

Wayner

[Houston1]

Unfortunately, my system is against the narrow 13 foot wall.  The speakers are currently 34" from each side wall and 32" from the front baffle to the back wall.  I could bring these out further, but my wife will not allow me to change the orientation of the room along the longer wall.  In my old condo, the speakers were along the "long" wall so I wonder if that is the reason they sounded better.  Wayner, do you know how I could reduce the nodes in my current orientation?  Do I need to bring the speakers out another 8-10 inches to do this?

[Wayner]

Put your speakers 45 1/4" from the side walls and 62 5/8" from the rear. If she doesn't like them out that far, you'll have to compromise. Keep pushing them further back against the wall (maintaining the side distance) until she smiles.

Wayner  aa

[Houston1]

Haha....I will go experiment with that configuration.  Thanks for the advice.   

[vintagebob]

Wayner,

Can you share the process you used to come up with those dimensions or is it a state secret?  ; )

[Wayner]

No state secret here. I always share my information. When I was in the lighting industry, we used lots of poles. They would start to vibrate and basically commit suicide, along with every light fixture on top. It just so happens that there is a simple formula for canceling wavelenght nodes and their harmonics x multiplying the distance by .29. I have also seen this done by several other speaker placement gurus so the theory goes across the board. IMHO. So if the room is 20 feet wide, take that times .29 (converting to inches) so that would be 69.6 inches from the side wall. If the room is 15 feet deep, take that times .29, 52.2" from the back wall (of the speaker). This is assuming that the speakers are placed along the long wall (my favorite). If your room is the other way (along the short wall), just reverse the numbers.

Of course, ceiling height, room irregularities, furnishing and room treatment can screw everything up, but this is a place to start.

We did this at RMAF with the new Soundscape 12 speakers and there were no weird bass nodes in this way too small room. We also discovered that it is possible to overdamp a room with absorption as well actually killed the sound stage of a glorious pair of speakers (which we discovered before anyone heard the speakers).

Wayner 

[Wayner]

EXAMPLE: ROOM 16 X 20



Wayner