[Jason T]

Droht

I would have to say that Pano is the man to best answer this question
I to have been scratching my head about allot of this stuff and finally took the leap.

I can say honestly that what I feel the Cosel PS is doing for me is
more, bigger, better bass
quieter and I'm talking dead silent ! or maybe the background is just blacker and further back ? I'm still kinda lost on this one lol
I can say that the difference is good and I like it as well I should. the Cosel PS I got sells for $399 on average I just found a guy on ebay selling them for $45

I believe that the power running into the amp is a very important part of getting the sound we all long after.
saying it's not important is tossing power cables, power filtration and such equipment out the window.
I'm a firm believer in power filtration and have heard tremendous differences by just adding a good conditioner so it's hard to say that some of this stuff isn't or is voodoo

I don't believe that the Cosel power supply I bought was a significant improvement but I would call it a small improvement worth $45, although I do believe you might be missing something as well but dont want you to try something and be disappointed.

I'm not the experienced logic guy, I just like experimenting
Pano will have to chime in with logic and facts

[rhing]

Thanks Jason for the update.

I wonder if something like this with a quality toroidal power transformer would make a good linear supply for the Virtue Two:

http://connexelectronic.com/product_info.php/cPath/25/products_id/72?osCsid=hs6dc97b3mocq5t03796qle5t0

[dvenardos]

My take is that one type of power supply is not inherently better than any other type. You can have a good smps, linear, and battery and conversely a bad smps, linear, and battery. A poor power supply is dirty, it introduces noise into the amp. The available smps for the Virtue are clean, but underpowered so that you can get an improvement by going with a good higher powered supply of any type. Battery has the advantage of also effectively working as a filtration device because you are producing only clean dc power, so if you have particularly dirty power, the battery might be a good bang for the buck, however, good smps or linear also have filtration built in so it may not make a difference either. Bottom line, there is no one answer.

I have been  my head with all this power talk.  I am under the impression that switching power supplies tend to provide lowest quality (vs linear or batteries).  Seems odd to me that emphasis is mostly on bigger SPS and not something different.  Maybe I have that all wrong?  I am just trying to assimilate the variety of info I have read.

One thing I do know from first hand experience came with the King Rex t-amp.  I purchased one new for maybe $269.  I really didn't want to drop the extra $179 or so on the linear PSU, but I did, because after reading lots of reviews I knew I'd be wanting one badly if I didn't get one.  I set up the amp with the full expectation that I would be completely underwhelmed by the PSU, and that I'd be sending it back for a refund.  The King Rex sans PSU sounded pretty good to me.  With it the sound was amazing.  I still don't necessarily believe it, as I can't fathom how the power running into the amp can make that much difference.

So, I wonder if maybe the King Rex was just poorly designed in terms of use with SPS?  That would make sense to me.  But with all the discussion around power supplies and t-amps I am stuck on the idea that I am missing an improvement with Virtue amps that might be in the same ballpark as what I experienced with the King Rex.  Considering that I find the ONE with 90w PSU to be better than the King Rex with linear PSU, a significant improvement would be almost beyond belief.  I don't mind experimenting a little, but I'm really looking for some clear logic as to what should sound better.

[panomaniac]

I still don't necessarily believe it, as I can't fathom how the power running into the amp can make that much difference.

An amplifier IS just a fancy power supply.  In the case of the T-Amps, a switching power supply.
Having lots of current on tap tends to translate into a feeling of power and ease in the music.  Beyond that, there are a lot of variables.  How clean the supply is, how well regulated, speed, etc.  Some of these effect the sound, others don't.

Switching power supplies aren't always better - it's just that in the supplies you are likely to find, they tend to work very well with the T-Amps.  A good battery supply or linear supply can work well, too.  The power supply is half the amp.

[al128]

hi there,

while I do not have too much technical knowledge on power supply, I do have a fair knowledge of solar related stuff... aa

a viable solution would be something like:

BATTERIES:
use 4 "t-105" type batteries (6v each) ... those can be had for decent money at walmart ... those batteries are used for golf carts and they are so called deep cycle batteries ... a good brand is trojan - but those batt's are realy heavy-duty batteries so they should last you a long time

those - fully charged run about 6.4v each (for a total of close to 26V when put in series)

each of the t-105 will give you 225AH (into 6v)... so they have a theoretical 5.800 watt hours in them (meaning you can draw 5.8kw for 1 hour, or 580watts for 10 hrs or 58watts for 100hrs) ... well truth to be told its only half of that, b/c you shouldnt deplete the batt's below 50% (and letting aside the peukert effect, etc...)



SOLAR PANEL:
... throw in a decent 30-50 watt solar panel that should harvest you aprox. 120-200 watthours per day ... which give you 3-6 hours of music (assuming the ONE draws 40w on avg.) ... use more than that and you will start to deplete the batt's ... use less than that and you will refill your batt's ...


CHARGER:

chargers are not too expensive and fairly "smart" today ... a Xantrex c12 can push down 12 amps into the batts (if your panel supplies this) ...


overall, this will be a very unusual but highly sustainable and green setup... not too small (4 t-105 have they weight of a dead backstreet-boy (or so I was told  )) ... and you might want to try to keep the cable between the battery-bank and the amplifier short, as it will run higher than avg amperes (b/c you run 25v and not 110 or 230v (like in "adult" countries))


if someone can give me an avg. wattage of the ONE or TWO (consumption-wise) y could cough up a quick and dirty system design


cheers,
Al

[Jason T]

that could also be quite the fatal setup if the batteries aren't placed in a well ventilated area.
heck I would put them outside the room entirely especially when charging them because they release bad fumes.

I tried using a car audio amplifier when I was younger with a car battery but used a sealed gel cell battery and it worked quit well.

holding 13.2 volts x 2 of them would get you 26.4v
I do believe that the gel cell battery power isn't as clean of power as the other cells used in the kits available for these amps.

[panomaniac]

I've run run small T-amps directly off solar cells.  It was fun.  The sound was very "light"  and "sunny." 

One day when the power went out, I was the only one with music.  Neighbors all wanted to know why I had power.  Solar powered T-amp. Full blown horn + 15" woofer rig. Battery powered CD player.

[al128]

that could also be quite the fatal setup if the batteries aren't placed in a well ventilated area.
heck I would put them outside the room entirely especially when charging them because they release bad fumes.

they do not release bad fumes, they release pure hydrogen ... (which is also found in the air you breathe ... but yes, its  flamable) ... so dont worry, its not like your'e gonna die when you live in the same room ... you just need to be careful not to smoke right at the batt's vent ...

it is however considered "good practice" to have the batts outdoor or at least have a ventilation system if you have them indoors

cheers
al

[al128]

I've run run small T-amps directly off solar cells.  It was fun.  The sound was very "light"  and "sunny." 

One day when the power went out, I was the only one with music.  Neighbors all wanted to know why I had power.  Solar powered T-amp. Full blown horn + 15" woofer rig. Battery powered CD player.

makes a lot of sense, as your avg. (nominal 12V) solar panel puts out around 15-16V DC when loaded down (mostly depending on the panels temperature the physically hotter the panel, the lower its output)

so a series setup of 2 would net you a good 30-32V ... my 75W panels put out a 4.5 amps ... so that should work out just fine giving you extremely clean 140 watts...  and should not sound tinny anymore  aa

[tubesound]

Got my custom made PSU. It has a transformer usually used by tube amps with four big capacitors (15,000 uF each; later added two smaller capacitors to tame highs; around 29V/150W). Connected to TWO and the fuse is burned (The TWO indicated 3A fuse and a 4A fuse is actually installed). Then my friend who designed this PSU paralleled two 3A fuses (We only have 3A fuses at the time). Warning: you have to turn TWO off before switching PSUs, otherwise you'll see sparkles  .

The speakers we tested: Focal 714V (91dB) and B&W Matrix 805 (87dB).

There was no big difference on Focal (Custom PSU has slightly tighter bass) but night and day difference on B&W (Custom PSU wins big).

[panomaniac]

Thanks for the report!

The Focal need 1/2 the power of the BW, so not taxing the PSU as hard. (my guess)

Warning: you have to turn TWO off before switching PSUs, otherwise you'll see sparkles

Oh yes, for sure!!

[HT cOz]

I wanted to share this one with you guys.
from the looks of this thing it looks to be a killer quality power supply and for the price might be untouchable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260292882720&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&salenotsupported

if someone buys one let me know your thoughts on it.
11Amps is a ton of current

I found the spec sheet on these.  http://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/cosel/UAW_series.pdf 

It has

+V
+V
-V
-V
FG
AC (L)
AC (N)

Can this power two amps that need 24V?

[Jason T]

I don't have a second amp to try that with but I will as soon as I get #2 and let you know the results.
the PS looks stable enough to be able to handle 2 amps no problem. I cant even get it warm on my single TWO

I would suspect that it will split the wattage between the 2 amps so the 500watt would be better but even with the 250watt PS I will get 125 per amp and that should be plenty running them in mono 

[rhing]

I was scanning the Web and stumbled upon this SMPS from Connexelectronic:

http://connexelectronic.com/product_info.php/cPath/25_46/products_id/68?osCsid=dp9n8tj4pidogd0jocmgd8mh46

Looks like an interesting power supply that could work with the Virtue amplifiers.

[virtue]

That SMP supply looks cool.  We got some great quotes on 500w SMP supplies from a subwoofer OEM a while ago after the Red Rocks trail went dark (no certs, no quality assurance).  The problem was no regulation (+/- 30%).  So be sure to check that out before you buy one.  If you're in the DIY mood, buy an SLA battery kit from GR Research (or build your own) and be sure to put a soft-start before the amp.  It's cheap power!

[rhing]

Thanks for the advice Seth. I'll check into it and post back here what I find out. I have to say that I still have a wide smile on my face when I listen through my Virtue Two and 130W/30V SMPS.

[rhing]

The manufacturer of the Connexelectronic SMPS said it has a regulated output voltage.

[virtue]

I was recently turned on to Astron for linear supplies.

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=080&subgroupId=30

3A=$101
10A=$168

The LS series, linear supplies, are apparently quite good and modestly priced.  Looks a little back to the future, and maybe it is.  I'll bet that there are also a bunch of bench supplies coming from China these days that do a similar job.

[neutralos]

I can say honestly that what I feel the Cosel PS is doing for me is
more, bigger, better bass

I agree full with you. The bass is more tight and controlled

quieter and I'm talking dead silent ! or maybe the background is just blacker and further back ? I'm still kinda lost on this one lol

do you mean the silence of the PS or the noise out from the speakers when no music is playing ??
Yes the Cosel PS is dead silent - but I am hearing a noise out of the speakers - maybe more than with the custom 30V/90 W PS from virtueaudio 


After listening about 10 minutes I can tell you from my remind that the custom virtueaudio PS had a better tonality, imaging and the more mellow mids and highs.
Jason can you confirm a better performance of the Cosel after a burn-in time ... ? The Cosel seems to be more complex with more parts and of course should run a while before we give him a grade

[danieljtb]

Hi all   I am burning in my new ONE.2 with the standard power supply and have started looking around for a linear to replace it with.  found this pyramid linear psu on amazon....any thoughts or experiences.  I have used the pyramid 12v on my tripath 2024 with good results
thanks daniel

http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-Adjustable-Laboratory-Supply-PS32LAB/dp/B0002Y8OFC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1267939378&sr=8-5