Must have more power. Cranking up the juice!

1000a · « **Reply #40 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: virtue on 28 Jun 2009, 04:26 pm

Cosel makes a 300w PSU (enclosed but needs wires attached) that can be ordered in 30v trim from places like Allied. A supply like this would be Virtue TWO nirvana. If you can't get 300w... go up to 400w or 500w... no harm, no foul. Using 2 power supplies is not a good idea until one of our hypothetical next models (mum's the word).

Thanks Seth

wmoore · « **Reply #41 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 09:52 pm »

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but GR Research has some battery supply kits for the Virtues.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=154

panomaniac · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 Jun 2009, 11:29 pm »

One thing to be careful with on the high watt supplies.
If you don't draw enough power, the PSU will shut down! They do this to conserve energy. On the big supplies, it may think an idle or barely running Virtue is a "no load."
Minimum load is different on different supplies.

I have not yet heard the GR Reseach battery pack, but it should be able to supply plenty of current.

dweekie · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 02:12 am »

Quote from: panomaniac on 28 Jun 2009, 11:29 pm

One thing to be careful with on the high watt supplies.
If you don't draw enough power, the PSU will shut down! They do this to conserve energy. On the big supplies, it may think an idle or barely running Virtue is a "no load."
Minimum load is different on different supplies.

Interesting. My 648W Cosel doesn't shut down, so I guess I'm in luck.

panomaniac · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 04:32 am »

That's good news, glad to hear it. I just got one, have not tried it yet.

How do you like it?

dweekie · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 07:58 am »

The sound is pretty good; it's easy to notice that the additional power is there. There's a fan in it that is too loud, and I'm a bit leary of switching it out to a slower model. The connectors are attached to the board via steel bars - very industrial and non-audiophile I suppose. Overall, it makes the Redrocks SMPS seem light and cheap in your hands. The only major negative is that fan. I suppose it's harder to avoid as the power increases. Even the Redrocks has one, but it is silent next to how loud that Cosel fan is.

virtue · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 03:19 pm »

Silenx makes a very quiet fan. I wonder if it could be swapped out for one...

Occam · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 04:31 pm »

The Virtue amp with its supplied 130watt switching supply responded extremely well to an old Volex/Felix conditioned powercord -

The benefits were the typical, not elimination of perceptable line noise (my ac circuits are very clean), but rather an increase in resolution, dynamics, (fill in your own audiophile terminology here), etc.....

I believe the benefits were a result of the power supplied to the amp itself, rather than minimizing contamination by switching artefacts effecting other components as all other components were isolated via their own series inductive conditioners.

Experimentation with more sophisticated conditioning offered a noticable improvement, as did aftermarket cords. But given the cost of the Virtue amp, I believe the sweet spot is a simple diy conditioner as detailed in the Lab Circle. Simply do a search on 'Felix'.

The Felix used was a whole system Felix, one capable of passing the full current of a 15amp circuit. I did not experiment with a 'horses for courses' Felix, one based upon a higher inductance coil which would provide stronger filtering at the expense of maximum current capabilty. BradJudy ran a group buy for Felix printed circuit board and parts that can acommodate these specifically sized coils. Perhaps, if there was enough interest, and if he feeling masochistic, he might offer another run.

FWIW,
Paul

panomaniac · « **Reply #48 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 04:37 pm »

Cosell (Howard) was always very loud, so maybe the Cosel PSU was inspired?

Occam, thanks for the post and the discription. I certianly found AC isolation transformers to help a great deal. The Volex/Felix may be doing something similar.

dweekie · « **Reply #49 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 05:42 pm »

Since I have two of these, I may try replacing the fan on one of them. I don't have any devices that will pull as much current as thing thing can provide, so hopefully it will be okay. It is a very nice looking supply inside. I noticed Cosel also sells a noise filter that is recommended with a few of their supplies, so I assume some improvements could be found by adding additional filters.

dweekie · « **Reply #50 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 05:48 pm »

I'm also curious if anyone has experience with the Skynet Z30 series.
http://www.skynetusa.com/index.php?page=shop.flypage&product_id=38&category_id=7862bc2c012dcf0e6ac5a2c015fd476e&option=com_phpshop

It is rated for 300W with passive cooling.

dvenardos · « **Reply #51 on:** 29 Jun 2009, 06:02 pm »

Were you able to compare the sound of the Cosel to the Redrocks?

My favorite low noise fans are Yate Loons. They are the manufacturer of the Nexus fan so you can pick up the same fans for very low cost.

I need to get in my parts order tonight so that I can get my Condor ps built this weekend. I will post when complete (if I don't blow anything up).

Quote from: dweekie on 29 Jun 2009, 07:58 am

The sound is pretty good; it's easy to notice that the additional power is there. There's a fan in it that is too loud, and I'm a bit leary of switching it out to a slower model. The connectors are attached to the board via steel bars - very industrial and non-audiophile I suppose. Overall, it makes the Redrocks SMPS seem light and cheap in your hands. The only major negative is that fan. I suppose it's harder to avoid as the power increases. Even the Redrocks has one, but it is silent next to how loud that Cosel fan is.

dweekie · « **Reply #52 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 03:30 am »

Sorry I can't compare the Redrocks (+/- 35V) to the Cosel (+24V). I have no devices that can operate with both supplies.

virtue · « **Reply #53 on:** 2 Jul 2009, 07:31 am »

Silenx makes a great fan. We looked at them closely before settling on the heat-pipe design for the Virtue and Sensation amps.

Welborne · « **Reply #54 on:** 2 Jul 2009, 08:35 am »

My 30v/130w ps just arrived today, now on the way to post office to pick it up, reports later.

1000a · « **Reply #55 on:** 2 Jul 2009, 07:17 pm »

Quote from: Welborne on 2 Jul 2009, 08:35 am

My 30v/130w ps just arrived today, now on the way to post office to pick it up, reports later.

look forward to a full report

seriously thanks for any feed back you can provide!

Welborne · « **Reply #56 on:** 2 Jul 2009, 08:19 pm »

I finally got to listen to the V2 with the 130w smps tonight, but only briefly and seems resolution has seen a quantum jump..but i can't be totally sure as i also made a few other change to the system including changing opamp in my Promitheus DAC from NE5534 to LME49810 (or 48910??) and swapping out the taralabs and in the Virtue Nirvana interconnect. I will try to listen to the whole thing again on the weekend.

A question for Seth : Will my V2 has the same loudness given the same volume knob position with the 30v/130w ps vs 30v/90w? or will it sound louder? I seem to have the need to adjust my active crossover after putting in the new ps, but may be just an illusion..

panomaniac · « **Reply #57 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 12:00 am »

The 130W suplly should not change the volume, as the voltage is the same as the 90W supply.

However - it usually sounds louder, as it has more "authority." It seems to sound bigger and stronger, which of course it is.

Once you get things in your sytem adjusted, go back to the 90W supply for a while. Then return to the 130W with NO other changes (not even volume.) You should easily hear the difference.

EDIT: Occam was kind enough to point out that my statement above is a bit misleading. He's right. The amp gain is not dependant on the supply voltage, the gain is set by the input stage and modulater feedback loops. So you won't hear a volume shift going from a 24V to a 30V supply.

What the higher voltage does get you is more headroom. So you can play the amp louder before it clips. (as long as the supply has enough current to keep up).

Sorry for the lack of clairity above.

Cheerwino · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 01:53 am »

Thanks for the report Welborne. Isn't that always the way things go. You live with a system the same way for months and then change several things all at once. I got the 130w at the same time I got a new Cube "sub" from The Horn Shoppe, so I went from little low end to full on assault. Still, taking the Cube out of my system, the 130w added some serious heft all around.

I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy it. I LOVE mine!

Welborne · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Jul 2009, 08:22 am »

Quote from: panomaniac on 3 Jul 2009, 12:00 am

The 130W suplly should not change the volume, as the voltage is the same as the 90W supply.

However - it usually sounds louder, as it has more "authority." It seems to sound bigger and stronger, which of course it is.

Once you get things in your sytem adjusted, go back to the 90W supply for a while. Then return to the 130W with NO other changes (not even volume.) You should easily hear the difference.

Panomaniac, as you know my system well, i use an active crossover with a separate pop pulse amp for the low end 18" dipole woofer. Will I still get obvious result in other areas except low bass since that has been taken care of by a separate amp already. What do you think?