[BrysTony]

Low impedance causes a headphone to be more difficult to drive.  The BP26 manual states that the headphone output should be used with headphones having an impedance of greater than 50 Ohms.  The BHA-1 must not have that limitation.  The LCD2 impedance of 50 Ohms is at the lower limit of the BP26.

Tony

[James Tanner]

Low impedance causes a headphone to be more difficult to drive.  The BP26 manual states that the headphone output should be used with headphones having an impedance of greater than 50 Ohms.  The BHA-1 must not have that limitation.  The LCD2 impedance of 50 Ohms is at the lower limit of the BP26.

Tony

Hi Tony,

Correct - a lot of phones these days are at 32 ohms.

james

[terrycym]

Low impedance causes a headphone to be more difficult to drive.  The BP26 manual states that the headphone output should be used with headphones having an impedance of greater than 50 Ohms.  The BHA-1 must not have that limitation.  The LCD2 impedance of 50 Ohms is at the lower limit of the BP26.

Tony

Ok then, that's a reason the get the BHA over the socket on the SP3

[SoundGame]

Low impedance causes a headphone to be more difficult to drive.  The BP26 manual states that the headphone output should be used with headphones having an impedance of greater than 50 Ohms.  The BHA-1 must not have that limitation.  The LCD2 impedance of 50 Ohms is at the lower limit of the BP26.

Tony

But you also need to consider that the headphones that typically have less than 50ohms impendence, also don't require much power to operate.  Most headphones designed for mobile devices are 32ohm / 16 ohm but their power requirements are so minimal - I can't see it being difficult for the BP26 to drive.  My Grado SR80's operate fine with the BP6 headphone jack and I don't expect would perform noticeably better on the BHA-1, given there relative ease to drive.

[DaveNote]

I heard the LCD headphones at the Whittlebury Show last September and they were the best sounding headphones at the show, excepting the Stax SR-009's of course.

Terry, years ago I had an entry level Stax, and listened to the top end several years ago and I wasn't blown away. Of course, not having heard the 009's, I can have no opinion, although they are raved about everywhere. And, of course, they cost a King's ransom - certainly more than I could justify for my use.

But the LCD2! After I got mine and used them for a while, I knew I wouldn't be using my other headphones. Gave away my Sennheiser HD800s and Grado RS-1s.

I'm running the LCD2s with a Lyr now - lots of power - but I'd prefer a solid state amp and Bryston has never failed me yet. So I'm hoping the BHA-1 outperforms the Lyr.

Dave

[srb]

So I'm hoping the BHA-1 outperforms the Lyr.

At $999 (?) for the Canadian-built Bryston BHA-1 vs. $449 for the USA-built Schiit Lyr, I would say "I would hope so!"
 
Steve

[DaveNote]

But you also need to consider that the headphones that typically have less than 50ohms impendence, also don't require much power to operate.  Most headphones designed for mobile devices are 32ohm / 16 ohm but their power requirements are so minimal - I can't see it being difficult for the BP26 to drive.  My Grado SR80's operate fine with the BP6 headphone jack and I don't expect would perform noticeably better on the BHA-1, given there relative ease to drive.

Excellent points. I run my LCD2s on my BP26 with no problem and having only to increase the volume setting. And I have used it with my HD800s, RS-1s, SR80s, and KRK KNS3800s (surprisingly good). So I agree entirely that the BP26 has no difficulty driving lower impedance headphones. But my problem is that the BP26, like the Grace Designs m902 I used to have, is this in terms of headphones: very accurate, but cold, analytical and quite frankly, not as enjoyable as listening to cans on the Lyr.

My 7BSST2s while being very accurate, are not cold, and have a lot of the warmth I like in the Lyr.

Bottom line: I'm hoping the BHA-1 does more than simply being able to dive low impedance cans. I want it to do with my headphones what the 7BSST2s have done for my MB2is.

Dave

[James Tanner]

Headphones work exactly like speakers - as the impedance goes down you need more current - as the impedance goes up you need more voltage. Distortion increases drastically if the headphone section can not provide the proper voltage or current as needed.

james

[SoundGame]

Excellent points. I run my LCD2s on my BP26 with no problem and having only to increase the volume setting. And I have used it with my HD800s, RS-1s, SR80s, and KRK KNS3800s (surprisingly good). So I agree entirely that the BP26 has no difficulty driving lower impedance headphones. But my problem is that the BP26, like the Grace Designs m902 I used to have, is this in terms of headphones: very accurate, but cold, analytical and quite frankly, not as enjoyable as listening to cans on the Lyr.

My 7BSST2s while being very accurate, are not cold, and have a lot of the warmth I like in the Lyr.

Bottom line: I'm hoping the BHA-1 does more than simply being able to dive low impedance cans. I want it to do with my headphones what the 7BSST2s have done for my MB2is.

Dave

That's a very specific question Dave - one that I don't believe has been directly addressed.  In simple general terms, acknowledging that this will vary depending on the headphones, the question then is:
 
Does the BHA-1 sound different, specifically in term of warmth/body and perhaps liquidity/smoothness, than the integrated headphone amps supplied standard in Bryston preamp/processors? 
 
 

[DaveNote]

At $999 (?) for the Canadian-built Bryston BHA-1 vs. $449 for the USA-built Schiit Lyr, I would say "I would hope so!"
 
Steve

Steve, as I understand it, the BHA-1 will come out at about $1300. My experience is that paying more for audio equipment often correlates to better performance, but I've found that a higher priced piece of equipment doesn't always get me more of what I want, or the performance I'm looking for.

Here's a perfect example: I paid over $1500 for a Grace Designs m902 DAC/headphone amp, without a demo (had no choice). It is a beautiful piece of equipment, with lots of features and worked as advertised. I bought the much cheaper Lyr for a lark, but then discovered that I like the sound it produced much more and realized I simply wouldn't be using the Grace. So I gave it away.

Because I've been buying Bryston gear for 33 years, I'm altogether prepared to believe that the BHA-1 will be excellent. That's what Bryston does. But the replacement cost for my BP26 is something like $4000 and it is not giving me what I want in a headphone operation, while the Lyr at about the tenth of the price is giving me more of what I want. If the BHA-1 gives me what I want - sound more like the Lyr but without tubes, and with a balance control and balanced output options - I'll go for it. But my experience with headphone gear tells me that price alone is not the only factor to consider.

Dave

[DaveNote]

That's a very specific question Dave - one that I don't believe has been directly addressed.  In simple general terms, acknowledging that this will vary depending on the headphones, the question then is:
 
Does the BHA-1 sound different, specifically in term of warmth/body and perhaps liquidity/smoothness, than the integrated headphone amps supplied standard in Bryston preamp/processors? 

Thank you, SoundGame. You have asked a question I've tried to get the answer to from James for months, but obviously I have not used the right words and have fumbled the ball. I hope that now that you have expressed it so well, James will be able to answer it.

I've also tried to make the point that unless the BHA-1 is better not only in the terms you have described, but in every other way, then why in hell would Bryston want to have developed it, or, in fact, dare to sell it to its loyal customers?

if it isn't better than the headphone operation on a Bryston integrated device like the SP3 or BP26, then why would Bryston  have spent time, effort and money to develop it and bring it to market? I would like to know what James's ultimate goals were for the BHA-1. A headphone amp for users without Bryston integrated devices? A headphone amp just to add one more device to that growing market?

James is great at keeping his ear to to ground in terms of what Bryston customers want. It seems to me he discovered a lot of us are into headphones. So if his intent was not to do better than the headphone option many of us have already on our Bryston integrated devices, then with respect, what was the point?

And if you owned an SP3 or BP26, went out and bought a BHA-1 on faith (as I did with my BDA and BDP), only to discover that it performed no better than your headphone jack, wouldn't you be pissed off? I would.

Dave

[Fsonicsmith]

I've also tried to make the point that unless the BHA-1 is better not only in the terms you have described, but in every other way, then why in hell would Bryston want to have developed it, or, in fact, dare to sell it to its loyal customers?

I'm new to this Board and I am sorry to make my very first post one in which I disagree with a regular. But, I don't agree. Not every potential customer is "one of it's loyal customers" as you apparently see yourself. Take me. I don't presently have any Bryston gear, but I do have dedicated two channel system that I am quite happy with. Thanks to purchasing a pair of Audeze LCD-2s, I am in the market for a top tier dedicated headphone amp that will drive the Audeze's to their full potential. My pre-amp is an Audioprism Mantissa that has been modified/upgraded by the original designer. It does not possess a headphone out. I love it and see absolutely no need to replace my pre-amp with one that has a headphone output like the Brystons. For me, the Bryston BHA-1 looks like a great candidate for these particular headphones.

[terrycym]

It seems to me he discovered a lot of us are into headphones. So if his intent was not to do better than the headphone option many of us have already on our Bryston integrated devices, then with respect, what was the point?

Ah, but there is a point. What about if you don't have a Bryston pre-amp but something else with no headphone output?

[Diamond Dog]

I've also tried to make the point that unless the BHA-1 is better not only in the terms you have described, but in every other way, then why in hell would Bryston want to have developed it, or, in fact, dare to sell it to its loyal customers?

if it isn't better than the headphone operation on a Bryston integrated device like the SP3 or BP26, then why would Bryston  have spent time, effort and money to develop it and bring it to market? I would like to know what James's ultimate goals were for the BHA-1. A headphone amp for users without Bryston integrated devices? A headphone amp just to add one more device to that growing market?

James is great at keeping his ear to to ground in terms of what Bryston customers want. It seems to me he discovered a lot of us are into headphones. So if his intent was not to do better than the headphone option many of us have already on our Bryston integrated devices, then with respect, what was the point?

Dave

Fsonicsmith is the point. You see a growing market in head-fi and you develop a product in the hopes of getting a piece of that market and expand your business and your customer base. You need to bring new customers on board on an ongoing basis to grow and to replace existing customers that are done buying or move to other brands. So you get into digital and into head-fi
and any other niches it makes sense for you to attempt to exploit. Or you just keep on churning out amps that you can't really improve on much more to a mature and shrinking customer base until you can't afford to keep the lights on anymore. The tendency is for existing Bryston customers to see verything Bryston does from the perspective of everything they do being an attempt to further cater to existing customers. It ain't necessarily so.

D.D. 

[DaveNote]

Ah, but there is a point. What about if you don't have a Bryston pre-amp but something else with no headphone output?

Terry, I don't disagree that this would be a valid reason for Bryston to produce a stand-alone headphone amp. But Bryston has been very good at expanding its product line in a way to give its existing customer base a reason to buy something new. James can confirm whether or not this has been part of their product planning. But I would venture to guess that this may have been one of the reasons it felt it could go ahead with a BDA, a BDC and a BDP. Indeed, if you follow this circle you'll find James, from time to time, asking members what they would think about Bryston making this or that kind of gear. Isn't he toying with the idea of Bryston speakers right now, and running a thread about his prototype?

in short, certainly, a BHA-1 would be a good idea for those who don't have other headphone jacks on their systems, but my guess is that Bryston looks first to the support of its existing customers, who, like me, buy and buy again, and who invariably pitch Bryston to friends and family who have yet to discover Bryston.

Dave

[DaveNote]

Fsonicsmith is the point. You see a growing market in head-fi and you develop a product in the hopes of getting a piece of that market and expand your business and your customer base. You need to bring new customers on board on an ongoing basis to grow and to replace existing customers that are done buying or move to other brands. So you get into digital and into head-fi
and any other niches it makes sense for you to attempt to exploit. Or you just keep on churning out amps that you can't really improve on much more to a mature and shrinking customer base until you can't afford to keep the lights on anymore. The tendency is for existing Bryston customers to see verything Bryston does from the perspective of everything they do being an attempt to further cater to existing customers. It ain't necessarily so.

D.D.

D.D. I don't disagree that in developing a new product, Bryston surely must consider the possibility of tapping new markets. But a company that works so hard to please and keep its current customers happy, and more I importantly, keep them coming back to buy more Bryston gear, has to put them into the mix of product development. These two considerations are not either or, they are not mutually exclusive. I'm sure other great companies do the same thing - refinement of older products, introduction of new, and trying not to cheese off existing customers.

But I'm only guessing. What does James have to say?

James, in developing the BHA-1, weren't you interested in how owners of existing Bryston gear might like it? Or were you looking solely into breaking into a new market to attract new customers? Or were you doing both?

Dave

[SoundGame]

Terry, I don't disagree that this would be a valid reason for Bryston to produce a stand-alone headphone amp. But Bryston has been very good at expanding its product line in a way to give its existing customer base a reason to buy something new. James can confirm whether or not this has been part of their product planning. But I would venture to guess that this may have been one of the reasons it felt it could go ahead with a BDA, a BDC and a BDP. Indeed, if you follow this circle you'll find James, from time to time, asking members what they would think about Bryston making this or that kind of gear. Isn't he toying with the idea of Bryston speakers right now, and running a thread about his prototype?

in short, certainly, a BHA-1 would be a good idea for those who don't have other headphone jacks on their systems, but my guess is that Bryston looks first to the support of its existing customers, who, like me, buy and buy again, and who invariably pitch Bryston to friends and family who have yet to discover Bryston.

Dave

I believe that Bryston was striving to meet two objectives:
1) satisfy the needs of those who are looking for just a stand-alone headphone amp (whether new or existing Bryston customers).  Even existing Bryston customers with a B26 preamp may also want a dedicated headphone amp for a setup in another room etc. 
 
2) create a headphone amp that went above and beyond the current performance parameters and functionality of it's existing integrated headphone amplifiers.  They could have just taken their existing integrated headphone amplifiers and outboarded it in a separate box...they didn't, they went through the process of increasing it's capabilities, adding functionality e.g. XLR outputs and making it capable of now driving virtually (if not all) headphones on the planet.
 
What I think would be good to have here, to satisfy a number of questions, is a comparison of features + performance specifications between the BHA-1 vs the standard in-board headphone amp in Bryston preamp/processors.  Specs don't say it all but they will help to illustrate the technical performance differences.
 
I assume that the headphone amp in the BP6, BP16, BP26 are identical but I'm not sure if the SP3 is an evolution and enhancement and actually closer to the BHA-1.  I wonder - was there anything learned through the BHA-1 engineering effort that will actually lead now to better in-board headphone amps in Bryston products???

[James Tanner]

D.D. I don't disagree that in developing a new product, Bryston surely must consider the possibility of tapping new markets. But a company that works so hard to please and keep its current customers happy, and more I importantly, keep them coming back to buy more Bryston gear, has to put them into the mix of product development. These two considerations are not either or, they are not mutually exclusive. I'm sure other great companies do the same thing - refinement of older products, introduction of new, and trying not to cheese off existing customers.

But I'm only guessing. What does James have to say?

James, in developing the BHA-1, weren't you interested in how owners of existing Bryston gear might like it? Or were you looking solely into breaking into a new market to attract new customers? Or were you doing both?

Dave

Hi Dave,

I think a bit of both I guess - I always try an listen to existing customers and what they would like to see Bryston develop - ex MONO 300 watt amplifiers. 

The DAC and BDP-1 Player were really my idea based on what would I like to have in my system and my frustration with the operating and quality available through standard computer systems.  The CD was from our customers asking.

The headphone amp though was my idea based on my perception that so many of the younger crowd grew up listening to crappy headphones with compressed music and maybe a way to entice that group into high quality audio was to develop a much better headphone interface for them to experience????

james

[DaveNote]

That's a very specific question Dave - one that I don't believe has been directly addressed.  In simple general terms, acknowledging that this will vary depending on the headphones, the question then is:
 
Does the BHA-1 sound different, specifically in term of warmth/body and perhaps liquidity/smoothness, than the integrated headphone amps supplied standard in Bryston preamp/processors? 

James: Can you answer SoundGame's question that is in bold typeface?

Dave

[SoundGame]

Hi Dave,

I think a bit of both I guess - I always try an listen to existing customers and what they would like to see Bryston develop - ex MONO 300 watt amplifiers. 

The DAC and BDP-1 Player were really my idea based on what would I like to have in my system and my frustration with the operating and quality available through standard computer systems.  The CD was from our customers asking.

The headphone amp though was my idea based on my perception that so many of the younger crowd grew up listening to crappy headphones with compressed music and maybe a way to entice that group into high quality audio was to develop a much better headphone interface for them to experience????

james

Interesting James - so why then go to all the effort in designing something all new.  There is a whole slew of headphone amps out there at different levels of performance for young listeners.  Why not just use the existing integrated headphone amp and outboard it as is in a separate box with separate power supply?  It seems to me that as you got into the initiative the objective evolved and became not only a product for the young listeners but also to create the best headphone amp you could build - above and beyond the current integrated designs.