Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade

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jmimac351

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Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« on: 2 Dec 2023, 01:15 am »
I've owned a pair of Merlin Music VSM speakers for over 20 years.  They are a tower 2-way speaker with Esotar tweeter and Scan-Speak 8545 woofer.  I always thought they were good... but a little "finicky".  You had to pair them with the right stuff for them to sound good. Or, was that really the problem?... more on that... Punchline: "You have to use these speakers with tubes because tubes are the only thing that are going to allow you to deal with the very forward sound due to lack of baffle step correction."

Recently, I acquired a pair of Wilson Audio Duette speakers. They were also "a little finicky"... and even more than a little finicky.  They are very FORWARD and IN YO FACE!  The speakers will actually melt your face, in stock form.  As Danny found via measurement, the Duette did not account for baffle step loss either, and they are very forward sounding.  Revealing, yep. Pleasant?  Not really... but so revealing that after hearing a pair at a friends house I found a pair.  I thought they were different, and they are.  Now, after having a proper crossover designed for them by Danny, they should be much better - for me.

Hmm... I'm noticing a pattern.  What do the Merlin VSM and Wilson Audio Duette have in common?  Well, the Merlin VSM also did not account for baffle step loss.  That's why they sound "finicky"... "will reveal your upstream electronics"... "must be paired with the right gear".  From now on, when I read that in a review (by some person who just happens to have their opinions put into print and it influences your mental health / decision-making), I am going to think... "yeah, they probably didn't account for baffle step loss, lets see the measurements between 700hz and 2khz".  The Merlin VSM is rated at 89db sensitivity.  The Scan-Speak 8545 woofer is rated at 88db... because, yep, no baffle step correction!  The Merlin VSM came with a "BAM" - Bass Augmentation Module which provided 5.2db of boost at 35hz.  Why would you need to artificially boost the bass of a speaker?  Because it's uneven due to... lack of baffle step correction.  I've come to very well realize that BAM was no "feature" of the speaker - it was there because of the glaring flaw of no baffle step correction!  The good news is that I'm very smart, and realizing this patter only took me 20+ years.  :duh: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Batman!  You live and learn... (or you keep doing dumb stuff). This all seems obvious now, in retrospect.

What's more... the measurements for the VSM show it, unfortunately.  Imagine my sheer "joy" to see measurements from Danny for the VSM... after I'd already spent a $$$ number with a comma in it for an "upgraded crossover" for the VSM.   :duh:  Well, sometimes you make your own luck, and this week I have found a new owner for that special, upgraded crossover.  He's a long time Merlin VSM owner, wants it, and I want to move on from that "voicing / sound" (poor crossover design).  Between the Wilson Duette, the Merlin VSM, and the measurements for each, I am quickly learning what I like, and don't like.  TIP: Watch out for the range between 700Hz and 2kHz.  Danny mentions it multiple times in various videos... the answers / secrets are being shared, if you're paying attention.  He's not just filling dead air like commentators for a football game... LISTEN and connect the dots.

Merlin Music VSM Measurements










Now... what to do with this 20+ year old, 2-way tower speaker that weighs 85lbs, now has no crossover, a very good tweeter, and a woofer that appears to have some ringing up into 1khz+ range? 

Well... I gotta idea... the top chamber for the Dynaudio Esotar is sealed.  How about a driver that plays mids / top end coherently and assign the Scan-Speak 8545 the task of handling up to 200hz without whining / honking / shouting about it? 

The LGK 2.0 fitment in the image is to scale.  I'll need to fabricate a plate / something to mount it.  No big deal. 

Anybody wanna bet it will sound better than it does now and not be "finicky about upstream electronics" because it's "ruthelessly revealing" (because it doesn't account for baffle step loss and is in your face...)?

This is gonna happen, unless somebody says "there's just no way that's gonna work, besides, I gotta better idea..."

A Dayton Audio DATS measuring system arrives tomorrow.  I have a UMIK microphone and REW will measure actual speaker response - not just room response.  XSIM should be able to plot this out and get it close... then fiddle with low cost parts until... hopefully... it's "right".  And, I know a guy who can probably look at measurements like he's looking at The Matrix is say "swap in and out these 2 caps / resistors".  I know "it's not that easy"... but I should be able to make it better than it is now, I hope. Maybe I can even buy some variation of an LGK kit with some extra parts for measuring / fiddling?

And then there's spreading some Joy in a different way, perhaps another Merlin owner not suffering from Cognitive Dissonance will like it too... I've already spoken to one long time, well known owner who thinks any criticism, and Danny's measurements of this speaker in particular, are completely flawed and heresy: although, he never did dispute the lack of baffle step correction - the core issue with the speaker.  Me, wasting time --> :banghead:

People can be real "funny" about "their chosen speakers".  I don't get it...(well, I do... many people are mental) it's about the Music, and making it sound nice.  That's why I have a pair of Sony SS-CS5 sitting in front of me.  :thumb:

Stay tuned...

:popcorn:




« Last Edit: 7 Dec 2023, 02:17 pm by jmimac351 »

nlitworld

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #1 on: 2 Dec 2023, 01:40 pm »
This sounds like one heck of a fun project. I mean really at the end of the day you're not permanently altering anything that can't be redone and sold as an original Merlin speaker. You'd only be out a couple cost effective drivers, some parts and your time. A few hundred $ is well worth a couple weeks of education and entertainment in the garage and the possibility of a better speaker in the end. Really looking forward to seeing your progress.  :popcorn:
-Lloyd

Tyson

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #2 on: 2 Dec 2023, 06:21 pm »
The LGK 2.0 is a very nice driver indeed.  I find it sounds best when listened to on-axis.

In a room you can measure down to 200hz or so with the time-sliced approach.  For lower than that you can measure them outside.  Not perfect, but better than in a room.  You still have ground bounce, but not any wall or ceiling bounce for bass.  If you raise the speaker off the ground as much as you can, ground bounce is also reduced.

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #3 on: 2 Dec 2023, 08:32 pm »
The other thing I was looking at was swapping in the GR M165 driver to pair with the Esotar tweeter.  The M165 will bolt right into the cabinet and the performance looks like it will be better than the Scan-Speak 8545 driver in the mids / upper mids (less ringing).   What's more, this would be even easier if I just went ahead and swapped in the M165 along with the LGK...  And the baffle width of the VSM is the same as the S-LS Encore tower... soooo  :scratch:

Oh man, another $70 for 2 woofers!  The prices on the drivers from Danny makes all of this possible and less stressful, especially when you have no idea what you're doing! :lol: The removable crossover back plate on the VSM certainly helps.

This is worth saving, and making better. The bottom of the tower is an MDF plug.  When you go to pick this up, the 85lbs makes you pause and regroup.  :green:  The bracing inside the speaker could be better.  The Stereophile review of the speaker mentions some resonance on the front of the baffle, just below the port.  If you look at the picture, there is a 1" x 2" brace right there, and apparently the "weak brace" is doing a "weak job".  I could cut some MDF pieces and finagle them thru the woofer hole / glue in place to reinforce that area, to help that out.  Thanks John Atkinson!  :thumb:





WGH

Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #4 on: 2 Dec 2023, 11:32 pm »
I had the same resonance problem with my old Von Schweikert VR2 speakers so I added braces, lots of them. Overall it was a huge improvement, bass was tighter and deeper and imaging improved because the cabinet wasn't vibrating as much.

The solid wood braces were tapered at the ends to clear the drivers. The triangle shape take up less volume, has a non-parallel face, and are thick in the middle where the speaker sides need the most dampening. Each speaker has 8 braces installed, which measured out to 3 1/2" between each brace. I used three dabs of hot melt glue and Titebond III. The hot melt glue acted as a clamp until the Titebond dried and made a permanent bond. I used Grizzly polyurethane glue with hot melt glue when I installed the resonant control panels, which made the speakers disappear.





The results were so good I added more braces and interlocked them.




Installing Braces

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=44748.0

Resonance Control Panels

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72808.msg683847#msg683847


Have fun!

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #5 on: 3 Dec 2023, 01:15 am »
I had the same resonance problem with my old Von Schweikert VR2 speakers so I added braces, lots of them. Overall it was a huge improvement, bass was tighter and deeper and imaging improved because the cabinet wasn't vibrating as much.


Thank you for taking time to share this info!!!  :thumb:

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #6 on: 7 Dec 2023, 12:48 am »
Update to Update... evidently I misunderstood whether a crossover could be done without another VSM being in house.  It can't be done properly.  So, I'm stuck, unless I send a VSM in. 

We'll see if it makes sense.
« Last Edit: 12 Dec 2023, 12:48 am by jmimac351 »

Tyson

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - LGK 2.0 Mod
« Reply #7 on: 7 Dec 2023, 05:34 am »
Who knew Danny was the 5th member of the A Team?

fencki

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: 30 Dec 2023, 02:59 pm »
Hi jmimac.
Can you please provide some infos which crossover did you use?
i have the drivers here and would like to make some speakers with them.
and your post was very interesting and i need some more help please.

regards from vienna
fencki

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #9 on: 31 Dec 2023, 11:36 pm »
Hi jmimac.
Can you please provide some infos which crossover did you use?
i have the drivers here and would like to make some speakers with them.
and your post was very interesting and i need some more help please.

regards from vienna
fencki

For clarity... the LGK idea and M165 idea expressed above are not happening...

See here for the video Danny posted:  https://youtu.be/dQ78c-6tH7s?si=oGkEL5X2ysstzvXO
« Last Edit: 10 Mar 2024, 02:00 am by jmimac351 »

fencki

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: 8 Jan 2024, 05:17 pm »
For clarity... the LGK idea and M165 idea expressed above are not happening...

However...

1) I have verified the original crossover schematic for the Merlin Music VSM.  Even after purchasing an "upgraded" crossover for the speaker, that info was not forthcoming from the person I did business with.  A fact which I am not shy to say that I am THERMONUCLEAR PI$$ED about.  I'll be abundantly clear... this was not Danny, this was someone else and I have moved on from dealing with that person regarding the Merlin VSM, or anything else.  Whatever the case, I have verified the original crossover schematic for the Merlin VSM, and it's documented.  Even so... it will soon be rendered moot.

2) Unlike the lack of support I received from the person I did business with, I am happy to help you in anyway I can, all the way from the US of A. Folks reading this should remember, this is a speaker long out of production from a company that no longer exists. The designer passed away in 2015.

But...

3) Please be patient... keep your powder dry... cool your jets... I am working on a box to ship 1 Merlin Music VSM to Texas.

4) The end result is not going to be a "regular speaker"... I'm very excited about it... and I'm hopeful the loyal owners of Merlin VSM speakers find it adds to their enjoyment of a speaker many have owned for a long time.  I'm glad there are people like Danny Richie to help other people have fun, and nothing is going to stop this from happening, notwithstanding FedEx.  :lol:

I don't know about ya'll, but I'm here to have fun.

:popcorn:

thank you for your feedback.

can you tell me if you have the original schematics of the crossovers for the speaker?
if yes, can you please share it with me?

or do you still have the original crossovers and are you willing to sell them?

thank you in advance

regards from vienna

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: 9 Jan 2024, 08:22 am »
thank you for your feedback.

can you tell me if you have the original schematics of the crossovers for the speaker?
if yes, can you please share it with me?

or do you still have the original crossovers and are you willing to sell them?

thank you in advance

regards from vienna

Hello, I do not have the original crossovers.  The speakers are currently non-functional.

Below is what I've confirmed is the schematic for the Merlin Music VSM loudspeaker; however, I would not recommend using it...unless your goal is the measured performance posted further up in this thread.

As a reminder for others... this speaker is no longer in production, the company no longer exists, and the owner passed in 2015.

The pics with the yellow Hovland caps are the Merlin VSM "MM" version, which I owned.  It's apparent the various versions of the VSM amounted to different wire / parts / "lead free" / etc... not a fundamental crossover change / redesign.  I have confirmed this fact.  The crossover pics with the Blue caps was the very latest "Black Magic" version, which I owned, never installed, and recently sold. The number of caps on the woofer varied, but their values add up to the same ~17uf. 

If someone knows better or can point to something to correct / clarify.... please do so.

I am going to send Danny a VSM speaker; however, I have a few tweaks I need to make to the cabinet prior to doing that.  Feel free to build this crossover, but something better is going to happen...

I'm a sucker for 2 way speakers with soft dome tweeters and paper cone woofers... and I really like the Esotar tweeter.

Have fun.









fencki

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: 22 Jan 2024, 11:44 am »
Hi.
Thank you very much.
Now i can start building my crossover.
may I ask you why on your photos there are the resistors and one inductor missing?
or did i miss something?

i am very thankful for your help and all your updates.
keep us updated with your projects...

 :D

Thank you

BR
s.

Danny Richie

Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #13 on: 22 Jan 2024, 07:27 pm »
Hi.
Thank you very much.
Now i can start building my crossover.
may I ask you why on your photos there are the resistors and one inductor missing?
or did i miss something?

i am very thankful for your help and all your updates.
keep us updated with your projects...

 :D

Thank you

BR
s.

That diagram that he posted is not going to work well with those drivers.

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #14 on: 23 Jan 2024, 06:12 am »
Hi.
Thank you very much.
Now i can start building my crossover.
may I ask you why on your photos there are the resistors and one inductor missing?
or did i miss something?

i am very thankful for your help and all your updates.
keep us updated with your projects...

 :D

Thank you

BR
s.

The resistors are there in the picture.  They are Caddock resistors.  The other inductor is INSIDE the speaker cabinet (also pictured above / inside the large, white tube)... and I am finding it is glued in there like a mutha!  I may need to pull out the "BFH"... a precision guided tool for certain circumstances.  It is a descendant of the SawzAll species of tools.  :lol:

You asked for the crossover for the Merlin VSM... and that is it.  As Danny mentioned, you may not want to actually build that crossover.  Why? See the frequency response Danny measured for the Merlin Music VSM, posted further up in this thread. 

I am going to send Danny a Merlin Music VSM speaker and a new crossover is going to be designed. Based on what I'm hearing with the job he did on my Wilson Audio Duette speakers... the Merlin VSM is going sound really, really friggin' good...

So, my advice to you is to wait for that new crossover design. You should be able to get it from Danny when it is done.  Or, you can build the one posted... whatever makes you happy.  :thumb:

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #15 on: 23 Feb 2024, 02:10 am »
Well, sometimes ya gotta bust out the BFH... or even the not so big BFH...  :green:


jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #16 on: 23 Feb 2024, 02:26 am »
So, the hole for the Scan-Speak 8545 woofer has no roundover on the inside.  Time to bust out the grinder.  We'll see if Danny is happy with how much I removed.  Also, at the top of the cavity, there is the bottom of the chamber for the tweeter... and a flat face.  So I put a radius sloping back to the rear.  The picture doesn't quite show it, but it slopes back.  I don't expect the effort will hurt! 


jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #17 on: 23 Feb 2024, 02:29 am »
I think I have found a clue regarding the measurement imbalance Danny found when he measured a VSM years ago.  It appears the speaker really needs to be corner weighted...  :thumb:

This is the weight of 1 VSM... with drivers / crossover parts / back crossover panel removed.

I am heading to Dallas next weekend for a track event at Eagles Canyon Raceway.  I'm carrying the Esotar Tweeter and Scan-Speaker 8545 with me.  I'm coming in a day early and, hopefully, I'll be able to watch Danny make this Merlin VSM speaker sound better than it ever has. 

It has the guts... we'll see...  :popcorn:


Danny Richie

Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #18 on: 24 Feb 2024, 05:15 pm »
An EZ Weigh scale?

I've had a few cars on those.

jmimac351

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Re: Merlin Music VSM - Crossover Upgrade
« Reply #19 on: 25 Feb 2024, 12:32 am »
An EZ Weigh scale?

I've had a few cars on those.

I figured as much...  :thumb: