AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => VMPS Speakers => Topic started by: levlhed on 9 Jan 2006, 01:04 am
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My brother-in-law just brought over these monter speakers. He didn't want them anymore and I couldn't stand to see him throw them out!
My understanding is he bought these from a guy (in the 80's?) who'd built them from a kit. Some of the driver surrounds have rotted and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.
So, I've been looking around online to try and figure out just what these are and what the specs are/etc...so I can begin to figure out what sort of drivers I should be putting in them.
thank you!
(http://www.levlhed.com/images/VMPSbfg.jpg)
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I would guess those are the SuperTower II/R. Almost bought a kit of these back in 1987 when I was heading off to college.
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thanks for the info
Do you know where I can get more info on them?
I'm googling now and will probably eventually find what I need..but if some one could confirm thats what these are and send me where to get more info..I'd appreciate it!
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I'm sure Brian can give you more information when he returns from CES. I doubt identical replacement drivers are available, but there may be alternatives you can use -- maybe contact Madisound. Or you can send the woofers off for repair.
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Well you certainly got a good deal on those. You shouldn't have to replace the drivers. I'd just put new surrounds on them. Odds are good the speakers are ok and surrounds are easy to put on. You can get kits off the net or ebay. Also you may be able to send the drivers to Vmps to have them refoamed. It's worth getting them fixed. If you have the room they'd make great home theater speakers. You don't need a subwoofer with those either.
In the slot in the bottom is a passive radiator. You should check the surround on that driver too. Those speakers will also make killer rock n roll speakers. Don't throw them away as you could sell them. What part of the country are you in?
Brian is at CES and will be back Tuesday. You can call or email him. I'm sure at least the woofers are proprietary and the best thing to do is the refoam.
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I'm in Wisconsin about an hour North of Milwaukee.
don't worry..wouldn't even think of throwing them out! I'm actually a mobile DJ and am very fond of bass;)
I also think you're right, may just need to replace the surrounds. The one speaker I opened up is the worst, the 15" 12" and both 5" are shot...not sure if the 15 is blown, the surround is completely off and it makes contact inside when I press the cone in...but it could just be that things are a bit crooked due to the missing surround.
the other speaker just looks like the 5" surrounds are junk.
The passive radiators seem ok, as much as I can tell by feeling around down there.
What else can you tell me about these speakers?
What would they have cost back in the day? what are they actually worth now once back in working order?
I don't think I'll sell them any time soon..but its good to know these things right?
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Looks like an old pair of Supertower/R's (I have a 9 year old pair)...however, the ribbon is not stock and someone has added it at a latter date.
I upgraded the 15" actives in mine last year. The lower section of these are pretty much the large VMPS subs...15"/12" actives and 15" passive.
Dave
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I'm intersted in at least the ballpark specs for these..RMS/MAX, freq. response..
and how the bi-amp part works...assuming thats stock.
two speaker inputs. the top one has a 2-way switch and a fuse, bottom has a pot. are there seperate wattage ratings for these? whats the switch do?
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They look a lot like mine except much older. I'll take a guess going by mine...-3db@17hz bass section. Switch goes down...single amp, up...bi-amp.
Switch down and lower speaker inputs for full range operation. Rated at 91db sensitivity, My pair has the pots located in the rear. When I upgraded the 15's in mine last year they were a drop in...don't know about yours though?
Hope this helps a little
Dave
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yes that helps a bit...though I just sussed out the bi-amp/switch part on my own before sitting back down here to look for replys:)
thanks.
I'll probably try to replace the surrounds first and hope it does the trick.
I like to order from partsexpress.com because they are nice and close..never had a problem with them in the past...their surround-kits seem reasonable.
can I get away with using their "general purpose surround kits"? or would that be a hi-fi travesty..any suggestions on repair kits?
I'll probably wait to hear from this Brian cat before doing anything too.
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flintstone, what speakers did you use to upgrade? worst-case I think is I'll have to put new 15"s in them. that one is rather sketchy...but the rest just need new foam.
what kind of wattage ratings do these have? the whole speakers I mean not just the 15's
and what did they cost back when they were new?
I'm almost obsessed over finding out everything there is to know about these things. is it tuesday yet?
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Hi levlhed, you can download 1989 review for Supertower/R at
http://www.vmpsaudio.com/str.zip.
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I ordered mine new in 1996...around $2,000 if I recall. Yours, if they are Supertower/R's look a good bit older. I bought mine at Todays Audio here in Michigan.
The 15" upgrade I did last year were the VMPS 15's...they dropped right in with no cutting at all, a bit of luck I guess as Brian had told me he thought I would need to inlarge the cutout a bit for the newer 15's.
Power: I've used 90 watt Onkyo receiver with good results, Onkyo 165 watt M-504 with better results, Krell Kav-500 better yet...and Krell Ksa-250 a few times...more than enough power.
Mine are rated at 4 ohm and 91db efficient...the old Onkyo M-504 has plenty of power for them and that is what drives them fullrange as front L+R speakers in my homtheater.
I use the older VMPS QSO-626's as center and rears with one older VMPS tallboy sub in the rear of the room...great hometheater setup IMO.
Dave
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awesome, thanks guys.
Will Brian likely check this forum this week?
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These are Super Tower/R's from the early 90's. You can refoam or get modern updates. They should sound very good when fixed.
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check out this thread for surround and re cone service:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=24589.msg218291#218291
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thanks.
My budget dictates that I attempt to re-foam myself.
Are the kits from Parts Express sufficient?
Are there any particular surround-foam kits you can recommend (and why)?
Any tips/tricks I might like to know about?
I'm very glad I found this forum. You've been a big help.
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levlhed,
Let me know if you decide to sell them., may be interested. I'm 25 miles west of milwaukee.
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That review said these things cost $2,000 back when they were new.
Can someone who knows current market give me an estimate of what these would be worth in proper working condition (after I replace the surrounds) today?
Cosmetically they are pretty good, just normal kind of wear..nothing glaring, no big scrapes/dents/gouges...mostly scuffed edges.
And I realize its hard to say for sure without actually seeing them yourself. I'm only interested in knowing a ballpark at this point.
I don't intend to sell them, but since I intend to use them as studio monitors in my (small!) a/v project studio, if could get rid of them and get nice proper active near-field studio monitors instead, I'd have to consider the offer.
Thank you!
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Their value is undetermined till money changes hands. IMO it's really kind of a naive question. You haven't even apparently heard them working properly, so you don't even know what they sound like.
You gotta find someone who has a desire to own such large boxy speakers. They are out there, but not as many as who want in walls or wall mounts, one speaker producing surround.
The person, IMO, who may want them, has a big basement or family room & gets to play music with the wifey out of the house...The air those things move at 20 Hz will shock you. They moved me & my couch around, & I am 6-3 & not a lightweight.
I worked at the Plant when those were produced. I may have assembled the parts for your speakers. The kits have lower value. Kits did NOT cost $2k new. New factory assembled were $1938 pair full MSRP, kits about $1298 pr. So don't get ahead of yourself, & be realistic.
I'd estimate value between $500-$750pr absolute tops, but then again, I'm not a prospective buyer. And that's only if they were in perfect working order, which yours aren't apparently.
If you don't get them in proper OEM condition, they probably will sound awful & you'll never sell them, unless you find a kid who freaks out over the bass, but you gotta get them working properly.
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Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic. Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals. I'll admit I have limited experience in this realm of hi-fi, to date the best speakers I've owned is a pair of Advent Heritage..this of course is not due to a lack of interest! This stuff is expensive and my priorities have lied elsewhere. To some extent I could say my DJ P.A. is hi-fi as well..but thats a whole different realm. I've heard quite a few different studio monitors and I can appreciate the importance of accurate audio reproduction.
I really am just trying to get better informed so I can make wise choices.
I appreciate and value your opinion, esp. as someone who probably helped build them! thats cool.
If you or anyone else has more info/opinions on my situation, I'm very receptive!
Thanks
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Mine were made near the end of that model I think....somewhat like yours but different in several ways. Like I said, I paid around $2,000 at the time because I added a couple of upgrades...I don't recall what they were now?
Mine are near mint and may bring $1,000-$1,200 at Audiogon if I were to sell. They don't come up for sale often so I'm only judging by what I've saw at Agon in the past.
Mine are used in my hometheater and were also used as my "Rock" speakers in the past...they excell at both for a couple of reasons.
1. They play very loud without strain, and don't require over 100-200 watts to do so (depending on room size of course).
2. The lower section of these are the LARGE VMPS subs...you have two subs...room-lock is a wonderful thing!
HiFi...not as good as the best for sure, but much better than they look, they image very well for such a wide box. They can also be placed near or even well away from the wall with good results...a good thing.
If you can bring them back to life you will have great hometheater/rock speakers...no subs need apply!
Dave
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Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic. Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals. I'll admit I have limited experience in this realm of hi-fi, to date the best speakers I've owned is a pair of Advent Heritage..this of course is not due to a lack of interest! This stuff is expensive and my priorities have lied elsewhere. To some extent I could say my DJ ...
Umm, IMO comparing the value of home-assembled speakers (you stated they were kits) to factory assembled is "unrealistic". That's what you did. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it. We can mutually agree to disagree. Fine. You don't have to agree. No hard feelings. Getting ahead of yourself is speculating about value of something you got free, with them in disrepair & not having heard them in OEM condition.
Oh, & the MSRP assembled was $1938pr. Rounded to the nearest hundred is $1900, not $2000, but hey, who's counting? And models later than yours had better poly 15", better poly 10", improved mids & softdomes, updated crossovers. So that should help you with determining value. IMO, perfect OEM condition for your vintage can't possibly exceed 1/2 MSRP kit price of $1298, or $650, maybe more like $500pr. It would take a moderately advanced speaker builder to be able to confirm the crossover was wired & assembled correctly.
One of my favorite VMPS stories was the guy who bought a pair of that exact model in kit form. After several years he had not assembled them & his cats were using them for cat homes. He called to get a new copy of the crossover assembly instructions.
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WTF? are you picking on me or something?
I never claimed to know MSRP, I stated a figure from the article someone posted a link to earlier in the thread which said they cost over $2,000. I don't have a kit, I have assembled speakers. At that point it was the only real info I've had about these speakers. I didn't just pick that number out of a hat, and I clearly stated thats what I was refering to.
How many times have I said that I know NOTHING about them and I'm here to find out more???
Why am I being faulted for trying to figure out these are worth? clearly they are worth *something*? Are you just pissed that my relative gave them to me? I know they aren't worth even close to MSRP and at no point did I assume otherwise.
Someone posted in this thread that they might be interested in buying them!
I shouldn't be allowed to figure out a fair price and just give them away?
mr ribbonspeakers.net, let me be clear:
I'm not arguing that you don't have your facts straight. I believe you are giving me valid information. And thats all I'm here for.
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Why am I being faulted for trying to figure out these are worth? clearly they are worth *something*?
Everythng is worth something and exactly how much varies every moment. They are worth what someone is willing to pay. I would recommend keeping up with Audio-Gon to see if any appear and what they go for taking in account the condition.
I myself wouln't mind having these speakers. Hell, even your old Advents are desired by many. I like unique products and that is what you have. Granted they will need some work to get back to performing properly but what the hell, isn't this what DIY and this hobby is all about.
Do your research and you should end up with a fair deal for both parties involved. If there is one thing you can be assured of............ list pricing means nothing at this point. Giving that you do not have anything invested into them, you could give them a new home with someone who will treat them right and both make out pretty good. I wouldn't give them away, just be fair. That's all people look for.
Good luck with the venture.
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That review said these things cost $2,000 back when they were new.
&
bought these from a guy (in the 80's?) who'd built them from a kit
1. In the review, "these things" are not "your things". Because "your things" are, in your words, built by two parties removed from you (that would be a 4th party removed from VMPS): 1. VMPS 2. you 3. your bro in law 4. then person X (an alleged kit builder).
That means you got squat, IMO. Because till someone draws out a schematic &/or pictorial, & compares it to inside your speakers (will take a while), you have absolutely no idea on earth what the heck you got. ST/R are quite complex 4-way 9-driver speakers (one passive), with 3 level controls. Does that make sense? A VMPS cabinet with obviously VMPS drivers does not necessarily make it a VMPS SuperTower/R inside. Do you disagree?
If you disagree that you are getting ahead of yourself inquiring about value, & that you are being "unrealistic" comparing a VMPS cabinet & drivers to a complete new factory assembled VMPS speaker, you are being, naive, IMO. I'm entitiled to my opinion. If you disagree, fine. I'm repeating myself. You don't have to agree. That's a repeat also. Is everyone who disagrees with you screwing with you? Is this the first time you've ever been on a forum? It looks like it.
Maybe you realize you got ahead of yourself, & that you were being naive, & you just don't like being called on it, & that's why you're acting like your panties were pulled up.
Advertising those uknown quantities as VMPS ST/R, when you have no sure history, is false advertising, IMO. Again, if you want to do it, I don't care. Good luck.
Ask Brian if he has an old schematic or pictorial laying around at the Plant, that has been walked over for the past 15-20 years.
Don't be so cheap. You got them for free. Your bro in law obviously thought their sum total value was zero. Why don't you purchase the Agon blue book service? There you can read that factory assembled ST/R are worth, your vintage, about $35ea. Subtract about $45 for kit value. Anything you are offered over that, as they sit now, is money in the bank, IMO.
That's my opinion. You asked, you received.
Factory assembled almost universally had two pages of setup instructions glued to the rear panel just above the top xo, with a S/N stamped on one of the pages. If the pages are not there, & no sign of the glue remains, they were likely kits. If the pages are there, but no S/N stamped on it, probably kits.
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you seem hell bent on proving what I've said from the beginning
YES, I'm NAIVE
happen to notice the title of this thread?
You could have just given me your opinion/info from the start, without making assumptions about me...am I new to forums? hah, not by a long shot. Because of this I know not to post flame-baited replies based on assumptions derived from more than a few posts.
I'm not advertising anything
I'm asking questions.
I'm receiving some good answers, but having to wade through some attitude to get to it. Go figure, I'm on an online forum.
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Levlhed,
I'm just as mystified as you are. I haven't quite seen this kind of rudeness on the Circles. Got plenty of it on the Asylum though. Hope it doesn't get that way here. Good luck.
The Mad Doctor.
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Are you blind? Can you read? I didn't say the title is naive.
Naive is: requesting value information for something that doesn't function (foam rot), you haven't heard function as the original designer inteded, you don't know it's history & will never know because there is nothing in writing & you can't get testimony from the previous owners, asking for specs (ridiculous IMO because, again, we go in circles, it's not functioning now, so factory specs are less than useless). Should I go on?
Ask your bro in law the value when possession changed from his hands to yours. It's zero. Did you forget already?
Yes, I am giving you attitude based on your belief that it makes sense to ask about value for something as ridiculous as speakers that were apparently sold as five or six cartons of hundreds of loose parts & two cabinets, now at least three people or more removed from the factory, unknown history, unknown assembly skills, unknown if they are anywhere close to OEM...and you already have the most recently established value reference: zero, bupkus, nothing, nada, no-thing...I imagine you had to pay for the gas in the truck to go pick them up. Right? So the last known value is actually minus nothing, or negative dollars.
You are advertising your suspicion or hope that you got something for nothing, the proverbial free lunch. I'm telling you you got what you paid for. Tell your bro in law you changed your mind & ask if he'll come pick them up & tell us what he says.
At least Advents were not sold as kits, & they are an acceptable size, & they are 2-ways that anyone can analyze, plus it's easy to get the xo layout. I'd take a pair of Advents over those anyday. Did you miss the size of your VMPS speakers? That would be consistent with your reading skills. I'll bet you without looking the Advents are worth more in the bb.
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Thank you for your input.
I am not getting ahead of myself or being unrealistic. Being completely uninformed about what I have, I had no basis to determine my best course of action concerning these speakers as they relate to my goals. ...
What are your goals?
This is what you have:
1. VMPS cabinets & components. You have absolutely no idea about the internal wiring. The only way to confirm the internal wiring is to get a copy of the factory specs & compare to inside your speakers.
Two associated problems:
a) VMPS I'd bet has no wiring diagrams & isn't very interested in re-writing one for free.
b) The inspector must be quite good at following a pretty dramatic maze of wire & xo components.
Till then, don't plan any other goals, because it makes no sense at all. That would be naive. Anyone who says different is wrong. I used to work there & may have assembled the parts for that exact speaker kit.
Not being able to perform the above, just forget about learning anything about them, enjoy them, do whatever you like with them, perform whatever repairs or stuff any drivers in there you prefer.
That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it.
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Two questions....can you draw? do you have access to a scanner? Draw out the xo, like you see it and try to write out any values you can read and pm/email it to me and I'll try to help you out.
I am not going to comment on the rest of the posts in this thread as I'd say something unnice to a few posting here.
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Josh, I bet I could one up you after reading this thread. Shall we give it a try :oops: :lol:
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My guess is that there is someone outthere that would be interested in these as a "project". As long as you are honest (as you seem to be) about what they are, or are not, someone will want to play with them.
Obvioulsy they will never be back to "original" form as we will never know what that truly was nor will we probably ever know their history........ but so what.
DIY'ers have brought a lot worse back from the dead. Hey look at it this way, if your resurection doesn't work out, at least you not starting with a large investment :mrgreen:
I am not going to comment on the rest of the posts in this thread as I'd say something unnice to a few posting here.
KUDOS!!!
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Hi,
As per previous advice i would suggest getting the cones repaired professionally and perhaps you might be surprised
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=24589.msg218291#218291 :)
Regards
Rod
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Jim, I don't get what you're trying to say...how much are these worth? :lol:
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If you want to make them work like new again all you need to do is get ahold of Brian. He can tell you what you need and may even have what you need. They will surprise you how good they sound when you're done. Certainly well worth the investment in time and money. The crossovers should be fine which just leaves the drivers.
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Oops!
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If the xo in those cabinets is OEM, & if levelhd can copy it by looking at it, I'll bet on the Steelers to win the superbowl.
The xo components must be held down either with hot glue or silicone. Either way the values are hidden. It's not the values anyway that are of concern, because the cap banks were bundled together by Brian. It's the wiring. It's a huge mess in there. The bass/mid is qso, the rest are first order, but the three level controls make it difficult to follow & the sheer number of wires & components & series/parallel, etc, plus the top firing piezo, etc, etc, plus the 10" woofer resistor, plus the biamp single amp switch plus the fuse. Each xo took Brian well over an hour. The time wasn't because of complexity (it was complex but he knew it well from repetition) but rather just because of the sheer volume of work. It was fairly common to have to fix minor errors during final assembly.
If Josh knows what the xo was originally, he should draw it & send it to levelhd. Maybe levelhd can read it & compare the two.
Saying the "crossover should be fine" is way bad info imo. I have heard kit builder's questions about assembling those xo's. To say the instructions could have been better is being gracious to B. It is not the peice of cake implied by that statement. I'd say the chances of them being incorrect are greater than 50-50. Building that xo for the first time would be daunting for most kit builders. The seond one would be no easier than the first. I worked there. The biggest model I built by myself was the smaller Tower II. My kit building days ended after that (yes the fact I didn't pay full retail affected that decision). The $300 or so saved on kits (assmebled were discounted) was not a picnic for buyers.
It would take even B well over an hour to draw out that xo & be absolutely sure every detail was correct. Even B made errors drawing out the qso xo, it's esp bad with the switch & two inputs & all the rest stated above. I truly believe the instructions for that speaker were never accurately completed. They are more than double the complexity of Josh's RM40s.
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thanks everyone.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
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I never said I knew the orig xo in that design. I was just offering help if he had a problem with his xo, since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.
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since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.
Hi Josh, actually, I sent him a PM offering the same. If anything, it would be a fun project regardless of the outcome.
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I never said I knew the orig xo in that design. I was just offering help if he had a problem with his xo, since it looks as though noone was willing to help him out.
I didn't think you did. The fact is there is no help. B ain't got the schematic &/or pictorial, & no one who knows it is giong to draw it out for free for a speaker that in pristine OEM FACTORY condition is worth a few hundred. Because you don't know the wiring, there is nothing you can do for levelhd. Except to give him suggestions on what you think is a good idea to make it a josh speaker. I have no problem with that.
This is what I've been posting the whole time. He got free speakers, completely unkown quantities except they are VMPS cabinets with what I'd what I'd bet are VMPS drivers, & absolutely nothing more or less. They may or may not be ST/R specs inside. I'd bet money right now they aren't, & if I was closer to levelhd, I'd write out the diagram, get b to check it off (even I'd need help with the switch, which was a mess), & go there to prove that at least one item is miswired to collect my bet. LOOK: Brian & I miswired them regularly & had to redo small parts of the things! Yes, we caught it, but it happened. IMO, the average kit guy would not likely have the patience, stamina & ability to catch it. They might, but might not. I had conversations with these guys & talked with them about the work involved. I felt their pain. One major problem is it takes so long, yet the builder has this intense desire to stuff the drivers in there & listen to music. The anticipation runs directly counter to th erequired patience.
This is what I meant by getting ahead of himself & being naive. Exactly what I just posted in the above paragraph. I apologize if I did not make it clear earlier. Because my news was not fun & exciting (no free lunch) readers thought I was trying to ruin his party. I wasn't, but rather was just telling him the truth. There is a sum total of one forum member who knows the exact wiring inside that thing: B. Asking him to supply the diagram is unrealistic (production stopped almost two decades ago (it's a small company that had no computer databanks for this stuff). I know everything minus the switch, & B would have to help with that. What I'd charge for the work mr levelhd would never ever consider paying, especially considering his investment (0).
So we're right back where everyone started: all he can do is listen to them & have fun, & when he gets sick of them list them here & someone can give him $75 for the pair.
In other words, if his post originally said: hey I got free kit speakers, nothing invested, am going to run them into the ground & have fun till I must park them on the side of the road, I would have said only: Party hearty, enjoy, what a great deal, have fun...But c'mon? Asking for specs? They don't even work right, impossible to confirm what's inside, quoting $2000 in reveiws, wondering what he's going to sell them for? That's nutz. But it's only my opinion, & that's all I've said all along. Read back.
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OK Jim, yes..I get it. Your opinion states something to the effect that these speakers are pieces of shit, best suited as cat boxes, and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise.
If you've got nothing else to add that can help me in my misguided adventure, please move along now.
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OK Jim, yes..I get it. Your opinion states something to the effect that these speakers are pieces of shit, best suited as cat boxes, and I'm a fool for thinking otherwise.
If you've got nothing else to add that can help me in my misguided adventure, please move along now.
Your paraphrase skills match your free speaker expectations. Actually, considering the glass stuffing, which must be removed for your cats (unless you intend to kill them), there are better cat boxes. But they might cost you some M-O-N-E-Y.
PETA will be alerted.
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OK guys, :nono:
While I can't for the life of me figure out what is going on here, I feel it has reached a point to back down.
No need for final words.
If you guys wish to continue discussing Vintage VMPS, fine, I think that is a GREAT Subject, but I will lock the thread (or send a portion to the FIGHT CLUB, if there is any more sniping.
Thanks for understanding. :mrgreen:
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John, I agree, no hard feelings, I'm sorry levelhd for being what may have been perceived as "harsh".
Let's take one last joyful look from a fresh perspective, no sarcasm, no kidding, for real: Those speakers, based on the drivers, can be no newer than '82, '83 tops.
At $1300 pr delivered new for kits (maybe less at that time), divided by 23 years, that's $57/per year depreciation if they are fully depreciated (my position). $57 divided by 365 days per year is 15.4 cents per day. That is really very good considering 23 years of enjoyment, don'tcha all think?
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I never had an appreciation for the sheer size of these speakers until just now, seeing that little girl standing next to one! I would just re-foam all the surrounds anyway, given the age of these speakers. Send the woofers to a hi-fi repair shop to have them re-foamed if you're not confident doing it yourself. Also re-foam the passive radiators in each. Foam that's that old, if it's not already gone, is going. My uncle's Boston A150s that sit in his basement did not appear to have deteriorating surrounds, but when I touched one of them, it seemed to fall apart in my hands.
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This is my position, based on working at the place those were manufactured. If the wiring inside those speakers is not confirmed to be exactly per the manufacturer's specs, it was simply a mistake to spend the time & fuel to pick them up. An exception is if some listener with a good idea of the original factory assembled sound could just listen to them & confirm they were good.
Another problem is the apparent belief by members that new surrounds brings 25 year old woofers back to OEM condition. The gauze spider supports & suspends the woofer cones & mids on the back side of the center under the dust cap. That gauze is about a quarter century old. What did you look like 25 years ago compared to today? Think about a piece of hard gauze. It had particular qualities 25 years ago that it does not have now. It will not support the cone like it did then. It is also most probably highly unsymmetrical in its elastic qualities because it's been sitting so long with the cone's weight on one side (possibly turning the cones 180 degrees may help). It may be rotted out. IMO those drivers are all toast, even with new surrounds. I'm less certain regarding this than the wiring, but common sense & my understanding of their construction tells me the woofer's stroke & compliance is totally off OEM specs.
If they were confirmed to be factory assembled (they are said to be kits & I believe the visual cues are consistent with that claim), it might make sense to simply remove the entire crossover assembly as one piece, & go over any & all solder connections that look oxidized. There are probably about 70 terminations per speaker.
There is no practical way to confirm & compare the differences between Mr. Cheney's intent vs. the alleged kit builder's skills or lack thereof & the ravages of a quarter century. Any even minor solder irregularity, even from the factory, would cause audible problems after 25 years.
I am not trying to be harsh, I am doing what we all do here, sharing an opinion. I'm entitiled to my opinion just as everyone else is entitled to there's included the owner levelhd. Again, I apologize if this comes as a harsh surprise to anyone, including the new owner.
So if the internal state can not be confirmed, it simply makes no sense, IMO, to spend any money on trying to make them sound like the OEM intended, because the chances of that happening are so minimal based on the unknown history. With about 150+ terminations (you would not believe how many tiny parts were dropped into the xo bag), at 98% perfect assembly scoring (unbelievably optimistic) you have 3 internal errors.
If you talked to the guy who assembled them & were thoroughly convinced this guy knew exactly what he was doing, my position might be different.
Here's the only other exception that comes to mind. If the internal wiring can not be confirmed, here's one other use. They could make huge woofer enclosures. I'd consider extra bracing, maybe SoundCoat, maybe adding large internal layers of wood, & maybe Black Whole or some other damping. I also like lining the internal panels with thick dark brown cork 12" tiles. Then plug all mid/tweeter holes.
Get new woofers & passive radiators. VMPS will sell them at a good price toward the goal of recycling those cabinets. You will have to experiment with the passive radiator damping. But I gaurantee enclosures that large will move a 20 Hz waveform with low distortion like you won't believe till you hear it. (Don't say you weren't warned that you may be exciting room modes you didn't know existed in that room.) Be prepared to invest in some EQ to help tame the modes. Be prepared for visits from nearby neighbors. My next door neighbor had a painting fall off our connecting wall.
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I used mine as subs for around a year...They worked great upside down and in the corners in my large room.
If you click my system link there are still some old pic's.
Dave
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If the xo in those cabinets is OEM, & if levelhd can copy it by looking at it, I'll bet on the Steelers to win the superbowl....
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I still have these in the same condition. Haven't done any work on them yet, but I'm finally back to at least thinking about the project.
Finally building out a basement theater room and need to start looking at determining what components to go with.
Part of me wants to revive these and just go with a 2-channel setup, but I'm trying to weigh out the pros/cons.
Cheers!
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Not to resurrect from the dead, but...
I have these speakers. Originally bought them as a kit around 1981.
I am sure, yes sure, they are wired correctly. I am sure because I'm anal about that type of stuff, and also because I've checked them about 5-6 times. I've checked them that much because at various times I replaced the woofers and tweeters and crossover components.
I might be persuaded to make a video of the internal components. From viewing that in slow mo, you could probably determine all the connections.