The Bully

jmimac351 · « **on:** 14 Oct 2023, 08:38 pm »

The Bully looks cool!

https://youtu.be/8gWVGNU9yUg?si=axiIXdiUkdqFQZqK

Something I have wondered about when the Brute came out... Danny has mentioned that he wondered how the Brute would image / do the special stuff compared with other speakers offered that have a more narrow baffle. He's mentioned that it actually does very well. That made me wonder... if someone wanted to, would it help even more to felt around the upper drivers, or would that have some other effect that you wouldn't want?

If you have have your 94.5dB sensitivity, servo sub, and imaging cake too.... WOW!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Oct 2023, 09:52 pm »

We tried felting around the drivers on the Brute. It didn't need it.

Tyson · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Oct 2023, 10:07 pm »

The Bully looks amazing, congrats on designing a killer speaker, Danny!

If I didn't already have the Super 7's, I'd order them.

BrandonB · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Oct 2023, 01:13 am »

Quote from: Danny Richie on 14 Oct 2023, 09:52 pm

We tried felting around the drivers on the Brute. It didn't need it.

Danny how close is the Bully getting to NX-Series in clarity, separation and soundstage. Does it hit harder with mid base sense it is closed baffle. How are voices acoustical instrument and piano sound etc compared to the NX-Series? I love the fact that it has such a high efficiency.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Oct 2023, 02:44 am »

It's almost apples and oranges.
The NX series will win in terms of clarity & soundstage layering/separation. Overall its more refined and spacious with a more 3 dimensional soundstage.
The Brute offers more impact and slam, they're a loud rock out speaker.
They don't quite disappear in the same way, but they still have excellent imaging & layering between the speakers and a wide soundstage.
The Bully will be similar to the Brute in those regards, but it will offer improved clarity in the midrange since the work is split between the 2 woofers but It's a very different type of sound it's more forward & impactful.

BrandonB · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Oct 2023, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 15 Oct 2023, 02:44 am

It's almost apples and oranges.
The NX series will win in terms of clarity & soundstage layering/separation. Overall its more refined and spacious with a more 3 dimensional soundstage.
The Brute offers more impact and slam, they're a loud rock out speaker.
They don't quite disappear in the same way, but they still have excellent imaging & layering between the speakers and a wide soundstage.
The Bully will be similar to the Brute in those regards, but it will offer improved clarity in the midrange since the work is split between the 2 woofers but It's a very different type of sound it's more forward & impactful.

I know decisions decisions. They are for two different moods. I need two separate rooms....

mkrawcz · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Oct 2023, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: BrandonB on 15 Oct 2023, 02:05 pm

I know decisions decisions. They are for two different moods. I need two separate rooms....

I love both and have them in separate rooms. For a typical living room, unless you want a complete wall of OB subs and speakers dominating the room (generally not approved by spouse), the Brute/Bully is perfect. I can listen to the NX-Oticas in my listening room, then go upstairs and listen to the Brutes in my Livingroom and not be disappointed at all. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing enough to stop listening and go back to the NX-Oticas. I think it's the liveliness and fun factor making the music more "emotional".

jmimac351 · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Oct 2023, 09:37 pm »

I remember...

BrandonB · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Oct 2023, 03:26 pm »

This is a question for Danny, Hobbs or some of the other experienced people in the forum. If you took the Bully and separated the MTM from the Sub would it still be the same? Would it have the same 94.5 sensitivity? Is the sub connected to the other drivers in the crossover?

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Oct 2023, 03:44 pm »

It would only maintain the 94dB sensitivity if the baffle width remains the same.
If you separated them, and used a narrow baffle on the MTM section, you will only get about 90.5dB sensitivity. (see the X-CS Bravo which uses the same drivers)
The 12" subwoofer has it's own amplifier, but you can run jumpers from the speaker inputs to the high-level inputs of the amp, or you can use the low-level RCA inputs.

mkrawcz · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Oct 2023, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 17 Oct 2023, 03:44 pm

It would only maintain the 94dB sensitivity if the baffle width remains the same.
If you separated them, and used a narrow baffle on the MTM section, you will only get about 90.5dB sensitivity. (see the X-CS Bravo which uses the same drivers)
The 12" subwoofer has it's own amplifier, but you can run jumpers from the speaker inputs to the high-level inputs of the amp, or you can use the low-level RCA inputs.

Also, remember that with the Sub inside a cabinet on a stand is a couple feet away from the floor, it’s not interacting with the room as much.

BrandonB · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Oct 2023, 05:26 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 17 Oct 2023, 03:44 pm

It would only maintain the 94dB sensitivity if the baffle width remains the same.
If you separated them, and used a narrow baffle on the MTM section, you will only get about 90.5dB sensitivity. (see the X-CS Bravo which uses the same drivers)
The 12" subwoofer has it's own amplifier, but you can run jumpers from the speaker inputs to the high-level inputs of the amp, or you can use the low-level RCA inputs.

So sensitivity is something that actually has to be measured from a microphone?

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Oct 2023, 05:52 pm »

Correct. Efficiency typically is measured by the output of a speaker given 1 Watt (or 2.83V) of power and measured at 1 meter away. Though some manufacturers use different metrics.
However, efficiency is determined by the raw efficiency of the drivers after baffle step it taken into account.
On an infinite baffle, a woofer may measure ~90dB at 1W 1M without a network, but if you put that same driver into a narrow baffle, the final efficiency with a network attached may be closer 85-87db.

VinceT · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Oct 2023, 01:20 am »

That big woofer looks beefy and awesome

Have you guys tried a modular design on the MTM section to make the baffle narrower, or do you need all the space for extra box volume for the woofer? *Edit - I noticed there was a video and watched it, answers question about the box volume for the woofer.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Oct 2023, 03:31 am »

Quote from: VinceT on 18 Oct 2023, 01:20 am

That big woofer looks beefy and awesome

Have you guys tried a modular design on the MTM section to make the baffle narrower, or do you need all the space for extra box volume for the woofer? *Edit - I noticed there was a video and watched it, answers question about the box volume for the woofer.

Tbh, the Bully is essentially just a pair of X-CS Bravos and Sealed Servo + kits put into a single, large cabinet so technically, a "modular" version already exists

jmimac351 · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Oct 2023, 03:54 am »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 18 Oct 2023, 03:31 am

Tbh, the Bully is essentially just a pair of X-CS Bravos and Sealed Servo + kits put into a single, large cabinet so technically, a "modular" version already exists

Putting a X-CS Bravo next to this speaker would make for a great visual / video for explaining baffle step loss, what can be different / required about the crossover for each (just as it relates to the MTM portion) such that the Bully is able to be at 94.5db sensitivity compared to the 90.5db of the X-CS Bravo.

The 94.5db sensitivity of the Bully really jumps off the page to me, and the built-in servo sub puts it over the top. It would take more than twice the amplifier power to drive the X-CS Bravo MTM portion to the same output level as the Bully, correct? The only caveat I guess would be how the Bully images compared to a narrow baffle, but it's mentioned that it does very well. And, that's exactly why I asked the question about whether felt would help. If it's all to taste, this speaker does it all. It's probably the kind of speaker that would be so much fun to own just because of everything it can do in a single package.

Very cool.

Jaytor · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Oct 2023, 12:19 am »

Just ordered a Bully kit. I'm going to give it to my daughter for Xmas with the idea of building it with her (hopefully she'll enjoy the process

). We're in the process of rebuilding our detached garage with an apartment above which she will be living in, so this is also a house-warming gift.

I gave my son my NX-Oticas (when I replaced them with Line Forces), so it only seems fair.

. I think this will be a great speaker for her since they can be placed closer to the wall than OB speakers.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Oct 2023, 02:17 am »

I just brought the assembled Bully cabinets up from Denton. So we should be getting started on the build for these very soon.
I think the thing were waiting for now is the pricing of the cabinet flatpack.

nlitworld · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Oct 2023, 02:32 am »

Quote from: Jaytor on 21 Oct 2023, 12:19 am

Just ordered a Bully kit. I'm going to give it to my daughter for Xmas with the idea of building it with her (hopefully she'll enjoy the process ). We're in the process of rebuilding our detached garage with an apartment above which she will be living in, so this is also a house-warming gift.

Projects/gifts like this are too much fun. Earlier this year I finished building out a set of Parts Express speakers with/for my nephew and he got to take some pride in helping with assembly. Now every time I see him the first thing out of his mouth is how much he's enjoying those speakers. That alone is worth all the effort.

I'll definitely be hoping to see a build thread to follow along with your progress.

BrandonB · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Oct 2023, 03:10 am »

Quote from: Jaytor on 21 Oct 2023, 12:19 am

Just ordered a Bully kit. I'm going to give it to my daughter for Xmas with the idea of building it with her (hopefully she'll enjoy the process ). We're in the process of rebuilding our detached garage with an apartment above which she will be living in, so this is also a house-warming gift.

I gave my son my NX-Oticas (when I replaced them with Line Forces), so it only seems fair. . I think this will be a great speaker for her since they can be placed closer to the wall than OB speakers.

Are they or sale now?