AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: Pez on 14 Oct 2010, 11:17 pm
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For everyone who is kind enough to share pics, impressions and any other RMAF related info please do so here. For coherence sake I will appreciate it if people do not open there own topics for 2010 RMAF coverage. If necessary please pm me if you have any concerns or questions.
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Today was move in and set up for vendors.
Lou and I had a bit of a late start. Once we finally arrived at the Marriott, there were a few changes in how the hotel dealt with the exhibitors. We had to leave our ID with security while we were moving in gear. The freight elevators had some glitch where only one of two would move at a time.
We did have quite a bit of help, including PEZ, so it really did not take too long to put all the gear in the room.
Lou has his speakers showing in two other rooms. Lots of boxes to store.
We had Rod of Soundings, local hi-fi store, in to do a Master Set speaker position. Very interesting theory. It really improved the low end response and integration of the speakers to the room.
After initial set-up we starting changing cables, room treatment position and some gear.
What we ended up the night with was to add in my modded EE DAC in place of the AMR transport DAC. In our opinion the modded EE was the way to go.
Please stop by tomorrow and let us know what you think.
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What we ended up the night with was to add in my modded EE DAC in place of the AMR transport DAC. In our opinion the modded EE was the way to go.
I was there when they changed out some cables and added Wayne's modded EE DAC. Bringing the modded EE DAC into the system really improved the clarity, detail and tonal balance of the system. The bass was a little boomy with the AMR DAC, but smoothed out nicely with the modded EE DAC. The room sounded really good tonight :thumb:
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We had Rod of Soundings, local hi-fi store, in to do a Master Set speaker position. Very interesting theory. It really improved the low end response and integration of the speakers to the room.
I'd be very interested in seeing a pic of master set from the sweet spot and the back of the room.
Good luck at the show, Wayne. Hi pez.
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I'd be very interested in seeing a pic of master set from the sweet spot and the back of the room.
Good luck at the show, Wayne. Hi pez.
I will take a couple today. Good morning from Denver :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37107)
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Good morning Laura! 8)
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I am really hung over and can't find my camera.... :icon_lol: :duh:
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I'm probably not as hung over as Arthurs, but didn't get much sleep, so my focus need adjusting. Will take some photos today.
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I am really hung over and can't find my camera.... :icon_lol: :duh:
I think I'm glad I missed that :wink:
Just arrived at the hotel and looking forward to day 1.
Tom
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I'll add some old images from the 2008 show.... :lol: NOT!
Thanks Pez. Please keep dispensing!
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5084247004_f92110386f.jpg)
Just arrived. I've seen a ton of ACers already and have started wandering around. I will be posting periodic updates. Trying to go strictly iPhone and iPad for the whole show. I will occasionally pull out the DSLR to take some quality pics with. Looks like it's going to be a phenomenal show this year!
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I respectfully request images and a report concerning Duke LeJeune's AudioKinesis speakers.
TIA!
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5083732453_1849057363_b.jpg")
The back of my fat shaved head. Poor Pez has this to look forward to for the rest of the day.
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5083732453_1849057363_b.jpg")
The back of my fat shaved head. Poor Pez has this to look forward to for the rest of the day.
Looks okay from here. :lol:
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5083732453_1849057363_b.jpg)
Pic repost
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Thanks for the pics Laura, Tyson, keep them coming along with impressions. Much appreciated by those of us who couldn't make it. :thumb:
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Show director Marjorie attending to last minute changes before the show officially opens. She's the best :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37111)
Lou Hinkley's flagship room (1030) before adding the Galibier TT (his speakers are in 4 rooms this year). The speakers were Master Set by Rod Tomson (Soundings Hi Fi). The left speaker is 22.5" from the wall behind the speakers and the right speaker is 24.5" from that wall.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37118)
Dan Wright's room featuring, among other goodies, his new LS-100 line stage with phono and the Daedalus DA-RMA speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37119)
Back to the show, more later
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Please let me know how the Kaiser Acoustics room sounds this year. :thumb:
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I would greatly appreciate anyone's impressions on the following DACS.
Neko Audio
W4S DAC I & II
EE DAC
or any other "affordable" DACS :thumb:
Thanks,
Randy
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Awesome awesome sound from these!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5084088519_e9feba5f1d.jpg)
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Would be interested to hear what people think of the Legend Acoustics room (room 457 Marriott Hotel). They've dragged their top of the line Tikandi speakers all the way from here in Australia to RMAF.
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In the Empirical room now featuring the Salks. They sound very nice. Dynamics to die for, and great imaging/soundstaging. One of the better rooms I've been in.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5084495211_1c67190b2e.jpg)
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In the Empirical room now featuring the Salks. They sound very nice. Dynamics to die for, and great imaging/soundstaging. One of the better rooms I've been in.
Thanks PEZ! As a SoundScape owner, I have been dying for the "word". Now it has been given. :thumb:
Bob
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I think it goes without saying -- tho I'll say it anyway -- that the AC Members at RMAF 2010 thread is hot and only going to get hotter. It will easily be the most widely read this weekend as those of us who couldn't attend attempt to live vicariously through you. You have a captive audience, friends. Post, post away.
-Jason
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I think it goes without saying -- tho I'll say it anyway -- that the AC Members at RMAF 2010 thread is hot and only going to get hotter. It will easily be the most widely read this weekend as those of us who couldn't attend attempt to live vicariously through you. You have a captive audience, friends. Post, post away.
-Jason
X2 :beer:
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In the Selah audio room right now listening to some very interesting stuff great overall sound and very nice given that they are not the big giant speakers like every other room.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5085260368_ef9e4e257b.jpg)
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If I was voting, I'd vote for members to keep playing their favorite demo software (I know you'll possibly hate that music by the end of the weekend) and keep a running tally of the top three best rooms. Or top five?
I keep suggesting Duke's AudioKinesis room because he's launched a new speaker with new side-firing driver format. My listening experience with the technology is that it is special and worth hearing, especially because there is no similar (to my knowledge) mix of design specifications anywhere else.
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Friday was a casual day at RMAF 2010, the hotel was not crowded and many rooms had just a few people listening. All the rooms I visited had pretty good sound, here are a few highlights:
Classic audio and Atma-Sphere have a very dynamic room
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/classic_audio-atma-sphere-tri-planer.jpg)
The Nola Metro Grand Reference sounded fantastic at $22,000
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/nola_metro_grand_reference.jpg)
The new Von Schweikert VR33 are really as good as the reviews say they are
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/Von_Schweikert_VR33.jpg)
The Von Schweikert VR35 are even better, look at that amp!
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/von_schweikert_vr35.jpg)
Bamberg has some of the best sound at the show
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/bamberg.jpg)
Daedalus sounded terrific too
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/daedalus.jpg)
GR Research rocked the house, the speakers can easily fill a room with great music
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/gr_research.jpg)
JBL had lifelike dynamics
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/jbl.jpg)
The new Jolida Glass electronics are $350 each
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/jolida_glass.jpg)
Wilson - always a class act
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/wilson.jpg)
Zu has a very coherent sound
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/zu.jpg)
Wayne
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The Nola room was fantastic with Audio Research and the DAC8.
The GR room sported the Tranquility Dac. Very nice room.
Zu room with the Essence and Redwine Audio gear was great.
First Watt room was great as well.
Overall, lots of good stuff in day 1. Seems like better sound everywhere this year.
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http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_igallery&view=gallery&id=20&Itemid=202
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Stereophile's RMAF blog http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2010/
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WGH
Daedalus sounded terrific too
That should maybe read The Daedalus Ulysses sounded terrific in the First Sound room.
Cant wait to see pics and hear about Lou's Daedalus room!
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The Audio Alernative room (Ft. Collins CO dealer) featuring the $45,000 Vandersteen 7s driven by Audio Research's top of the line gear. Very nice, coherent sound
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37149)
The Neko Audio/Audio Kinesis room. I thought the speakers had good tonal balance with better than average clarity & detail, excellent dynamics and a wide sweetspot.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37150)
I spent a lot of time in Dan Wright's room listening to CDs on his modded Oppo SE and vinyl on a VPI Classic through the LS 100 preamp with the built in phonostage. The system was powered by Dan's KWA 100 amp and the speakers are the Daedalus DA-RMas. Dan has hit another homerun with the LS 100. He is going to send it around on a tour and I highly recommend you get on the tour list. This room, along with the Galibier room had the best sound of all the rooms I visited on Friday.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37152)
The all vinyl Galibier room with Atma-Sphere electronics driving Daedalus Ulysses speakers. The tone arm on the Galibier is the 2d generation Durand ($7,900). Very sweet sound :thumb: Some of the best vinyl I have heard.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37153)
ACers meeting up in the Atrium bar on Friday evening
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37154)
From left to right, Rob, Ted_b, WGH, me, TomS, Big Red Machine.
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WGH
That should maybe read The Daedalus Ulysses sounded terrific in the First Sound room.
That would be correct. The room did sound terrific. I heard some jazz, Eric Clapton, Black Sabbath, Dead Can Dance and She & Him while in the room and all sounded great. The First Sound pre amp is a very nice unit. I told Emmanuel he needed to make a phonostage next :thumb:
Can't wait to see pics and hear about Lou's Daedalus room
Lou's room had some compatibility issues with some rebuilt Atma-Sphere's that just never sounded right and he finally had to remove the Atma-Sphere's and bring in a third ModWright KWA 150 to power his new Bass Optimization Woofers. When I left the room at 10:30 last night it was sounding great. I will spend some time there today and post my impressions.
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Lou's room had some compatibility issues with some rebuilt Atma-Sphere's that just never sounded right and he finally had to remove the Atma-Sphere's and bring in a third ModWright KWA 150 to power his new Bass Optimization Woofers. When I left the room at 10:30 last night it was sounding great. I will spend some time there today and post my impressions.
Aww thats a bummer... I know all involved were very excited to be running with the Atma-Sphere's. I hope they get everything settled to their liking.
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Pez and Tyson, could you post pictures of you two, so we all know what you look like?
Pez, did you say you are primarily using the iPhone to take pictures? That's a thought... I guess I can try that for a while....
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Good stuff!!!! Nice to put faces to posts...thanks all!!! :thumb: :thumb:
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Pez here, posting photos for Paul. He will add comments later.
Paul here. Thanks Jason for loading the photos. I finally found some free time after dinner with a large group. Here are my quick snapshots culled from notes. All photos are from Friday. My rating with either one or two thumbs up represent what I enjoyed listening most without regard for cost.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5086814298_552ac60fc7.jpg)
Fritz Carbon 7s speakers with Modwright electronics and Modwright modded Oppo cd player. Nice balanced sound for slightly above budget prices. :thumb:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5086815578_dd460b07d4.jpg)
All Marantz, all the time. Decent sound but expensive.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5086221439_0a74ed8ff1.jpg)
For all you streaming freaks - HD audio, 24 bit 192 Khz sound. Wireless, active speakers.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5086222399_ccb6aaa902.jpg)
King Sound electrostatics and VAC electronics - organic sound and expensive.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5086818470_7000b2ce5c.jpg)
Audio Physic speakers and Trigon electronics room - Very smooth, detailed and natural. :thumb:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5086224329_b61e4f5432.jpg)
Duelund electronics and Kaiser Kawero speakers - they were using wav files which produced high resolution and detailed sound.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5086225231_b265800b66.jpg)
These are hand made speakers - Bogdan Audio Creations. The smaller speaker is the Catalina (65 lbs) and the larger one is the Petra (350 lbs). The designer told me it is real wood, not veneer and takes many hours to make. I thought the Catalina was quite good looking in person.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5086821252_3215e10d4d.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5086821904_c544afd4dd.jpg)
PTE speakers - Phoenix model. These are active speakers, driven by 3 130 watt amps $5,400 pr.
Very natural image height. When one is seated, the image height is at least 5 feet, no 3 ft dwarf images here.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5086228011_2b5123ceb9.jpg)
Tubes, tubes, and more tubes from LA Audio. Yummy.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/5086824286_db83513f31.jpg)
LA Audio tube gear.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5086230323_84e4b987d2.jpg)
LessLoss room. Full, balanced sound, with just the right amount of resolution. :thumb:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5086232085_cb26b03c3a.jpg)
Linkwitz Lab - Do it yourself speaker kit, by the famous crossover guy (Linkwitz-Riley). This is the finest sound I heard on the first day, and by a large margin.
This system sounds closer to live music more than any other system I heard on the first day.
Completely assembled speaker with amplifiers start at $9,200 pr, depending on choice of wood cabinet. Kits start at $2,800 pr. If I had the money I would buy the completely assembled speaker, and be done with future speaker buying. For me, the sound is magical. :thumb: :thumb:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5086233011_564f493745.jpg)
Another photo of the Linkwitz speaker.
I will post photos and comments of rooms I visited today (Saturday) sometime tomorrow.
Paul Mah
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Aww thats a bummer... I know all involved were very excited to be running with the Atma-Sphere's. I hope they get everything settled to their liking.
I just came from Lou's room and the sound is fantastic :thumb: His new Bass Optimization Woofers really enhance the low end without it sounding boomy. Much, much better without the Atma-Sphere amps and pre. Something wasn't right with the rebuilt Atma-spheres in Lou's room because a pair of M-60s (I think) sound great driving the Daedalus Ulyesses in the Galibier room. more later
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What does Ralph think about what happened to the amps?
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I agree with Laura, but I'm going to go a step further and say simply that the Atmaspheres are a bad match for the Ulysses period. I heard the other Ulysses/Atmaspehere room just now and was thoroughly unimpressed. The Daedalus room with just Modright amps is vastily superior, and this is coming from a tube guy. Simply put the Daedalus room went from mediocre to best in show with the Modwrights.
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Wonder why the Atma-Sphere wouldn't mate well. :scratch:
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Simply put the Daedalus room went from mediocre to best in show with the Modwrights.
Better then the GR Super V's huh?
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I have a feeling the other room w/Ulysses atma combo didnt have Lou's new bass modules. Not exactly a fair fight. Wish I could hear them :drool:
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According to the Stereophile RMAF blog, the Magico room is very impressive.
I know you folks like to support Lou, Danny and other AC manufacturers, but I'm interested in how they stack up to the Q5s in Tower 9022 and the GMA Calypso HDs in Room 1130.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37158)
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I have a feeling the other room w/Ulysses atma combo didnt have Lou's new bass modules. Not exactly a fair fight. Wish I could hear them :drool:
Yes it had the bass modules.
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Thanks so much for taking time away from auditioning to post!
Someone, if possible, please report on the sound in the Vivid Audio speaker room. Preferred models are the V1.5 (integrated stand) and V1s (stand required). I know they are on display but do not know the location...I think it's a retailer's room.
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Dodd meter bouncing away in the GR research room!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21257840@N02/5086837635/
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Simply put the Daedalus room went from mediocre to best in show with the Modwrights.
Did you listen to the GR Research super Vs in room 2024? Describing the Daedalus room as 'best in show' implies you heard every single room there. :nono:
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Yes I did.
And btw when I say "best in show" I mean among the best, and I would say that the GR stuff is right up there as well.
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Yes I did.
:thumb:
So how did they (Daedalus) compare to your memory of the GedLee speakers when you heard them?
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Anyone happen to see who Clayton Audio was with?
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Hey, if anyone makes it into the Madisound room could you please post pix and info of the two new SEAS drivers of which according to SEAS; "We will solve the mystery of the breathtaking sound experience."
Thanks for all of the reports, and have a great time at the show!
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According to the Stereophile RMAF blog, the Magico room is very impressive.
I know you folks like to support Lou, Danny and other AC manufacturers, but I'm interested in how they stack up to the Q5s in Tower 9022 and the GMA Calypso HDs in Room 1130.
Tyson and I were at the magico room and it sounded very nice indeed, but IMO it wasn't anything to write home about. They have a very Ultra Orthodox hi end speaker sound that tends to do many things right, but nothing memorable. I will say as a caveat I am not much of a solid state amp guy and this system is very much a solid state house sound.
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Tyson and I were at the magico room and it sounded very nice indeed, but IMO it wasn't anything to write home about. They have a very Ultra Orthodox hi end speaker sound that tends to do many things right, but nothing memorable. I will say as a caveat I am not much of a solid state amp guy and this system is very much a solid state house sound.
Pez
Very well expressed. Exactly my impression of the Magico sound as heard at CES. For instance, the sound of the $2500/pr MSRP stand-mount Sonics by Joachim Gerhardt Anima was much preferred vs. the estimate $30k/pr Magico.
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Anyone checked the Anthony Gallo Acoustics room? If so, what are they showing?
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In the Selah audio room right now listening to some very interesting stuff great overall sound and very nice given that they are not the big giant speakers like every other room.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5085260368_ef9e4e257b.jpg)
Can you please repost this pic ... ?
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If someone could let me know what model Sony speakers are playing in the Ed Meitner room?
Looks like a multi channel system.
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Anthony Gallo has se ne small conventional style floorstanding speakers he is debuting in his room. Talk to him a bit last night. Real nice guy
we have a pair of Clayton Audio M300 monos in the Purity Audio Design room
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I know you folks like to support Lou, Danny and other AC manufacturers, but I'm interested in how they stack up to the Q5s in Tower 9022 and the GMA Calypso HDs in Room 1130.
After listening to the Calypsos on Thursday evening, Thom drove home to Erie and brought his Ulysses back and replaced the Calypsos with his Daedalus Ulysses (without the all poly crossover upgrade).
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Can you please repost this pic ... ?
shoot I'm not sure what I dd, but this pic is gone from my flickr account. I'll try to find it on my iPad later, but for now it's MIA. sorry.
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Luckily I had it! Sorry for the low quality.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5087473331_67bb3ce2bd.jpg)
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Hey Pez and everyone who is posting..A hearty Thank You!!! for going above and beyond to bring us pics and info...Cheers!!! :thumb: :thumb:
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Yes, big THANKS for your report and pics ladies and gentleman.
These are always fun to read and fallow.
P.S
Anyone cares to report on the sound in Wyred/Emerald room. Want to know how my dac sounds in there? :lol:
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Thanks a lot, Pez!
Really appreciate all you and others like you are doing in bringing these reports (live!)!!
:thumb: :thumb:
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After listening to the Calypsos on Thursday evening, Thom drove home to Erie and brought his Ulysses back and replaced the Calypsos with his Daedalus Ulysses (without the all poly crossover upgrade).
Probably the Atma-sphere M-60s couldn't drive the Calypsos.
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Great coverage, thanks.
Anyone check out the Arte Forma room. They have the Dayens amps and have come out with a new 150 watt integrated. Would like to know how it stacks up to the Dayans.
Rocket_Ronny
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Probably the Atma-sphere M-60s couldn't drive the Calypsos.
It probably didn't help, but from what I heard the calypsos had other issues unrelated to the amplification. I really wanted to hear them so I'm bummed. :(
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Random quick thoughts.
Salks were excellent in both rooms. The Bamberg room was very very good IMHO.
Anyone else hear the Ayon Blackbird? Seems to use the BMS co-ax compression driver. I thought it sounded very good.
I did a hit-and-run in the GR room. Sounded OK, but they were playing something from 'The Wall' and there was some brightness. Quote possibly the recording. Dynamics were good, but still shy of what I get with my U15's in a 200 sq ft room :-)
The product that may have made the biggest impression was in the Music Hall room. They had a pair of powered monitors with built-in i-pod dock that were really really good for their $700 price tag. Apparently it's basically an Epos speaker with Creek amplification.
The Napa Acoustic room also had some interesting bargain-basement gear - a couple hybrid integrated amps that were rather attractive and sounded better than decent in a quick listen.
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Random quick thoughts.
Salks were excellent in both rooms. The Bamberg room was very very good IMHO.
Anyone else hear the Ayon Blackbird? Seems to use the BMS co-ax compression driver. I thought it sounded very good.
I did a hit-and-run in the GR room. Sounded OK, but they were playing something from 'The Wall' and there was some brightness. Quote possibly the recording. Dynamics were good, but still shy of what I get with my U15's in a 200 sq ft room :-)
The product that may have made the biggest impression was in the Music Hall room. They had a pair of powered monitors with built-in i-pod dock that were really really good for their $700 price tag. Apparently it's basically an Epos speaker with Creek amplification.
The Napa Acoustic room also had some interesting bargain-basement gear - a couple hybrid integrated amps that were rather attractive and sounded better than decent in a quick listen.
Interesting. Thanks everybody for the pics but where are Tyson's comments like last year? Missin those.
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The butcher-block speakers with the Scan woofs and the RAAL are hand-made (no CNC) by 'Bogdan' www.bogdanaudiocreations.com.
Sounded quite good, but pricey. The larger speakers are apparently $17k, but I'm not sure what the ones pictured go for.
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I had a great time at the show. I was there friday and saturday.
Of the rooms that I was able to check out, my favorites were both Salk rooms, Vandersteen, Acapella and J-Corder. I also liked the Zu rooms, Von Schwiekert VR-33, MSB Technology and Nola rooms.
The GR Research room had a big sound, bit a tad bright for my taste. I was not impressed with TiDal speakers. They looked nice but the sound was under whelming. I came from the Aperion room listening to $600 bookshelves into the Tidal room with $40k speakers and I would take the Aperions.
I loved the Salk Soundscapes. The Songtowers and HT2's were equally wonderful to listen to. My wife loves them.
The J-Corder analog reel to reel room was just fun. They were a great bunch to just talk with. It may not be the best sound out there, but it was fun and I would love to have one to play with.
The Nola folks were very friendly and the sound was fantastic.
Just a few of my observations.
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Thanks again everyone for the photo's and comments....
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Thanks for all of the posts, wish I could have made it!
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Wonder why the Atma-Sphere wouldn't mate well. :scratch:
My understanding was they were an older pair with a mix of old tubes and they were simply not functioning properly, tube socket problems, etc.
The M60's drove the other pair just fine in the Galibier vinyl setup and sounded very nice to me. I also think if you didn't know about the new subs you'd never miss them with these speakers.
The Deadalus room I actually liked the best was the smaller one with the First Sound preamp and little Berning OTL. Very nice setup.
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The Deadalus room I actually liked the best was the smaller one with the First Sound preamp and little Berning OTL. Very nice setup.
Wish I could have heard that system, I always wanted to listen to that little Berning amp.
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Wonder why the Atma-Sphere wouldn't mate well. :scratch:
OTL's don't mate well with low impedance. Put the Speltz ZERO Impedance Autoformers in and try again 12, 24 or even 48 ohms. The Atma-Sphere will kick serious butt under the right conditions, but fall equally flat under the wrong conditions.
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OTL's don't mate well with low impedance. Put the Speltz ZERO Impedance Autoformers in and try again 12, 24 or even 48 ohms. The Atma-Sphere will kick serious butt under the right conditions, but fall equally flat under the wrong conditions.
Gotcha. I wonder why Lou didn't use the zero's then. I'm sure Ralph knew what he was going to use them for. Oh well. Glad it all worked out in the end.
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I was able to hit most of the rooms I wanted to get to before leaving the show later today. I enjoyed sledding some time in the Salk room. Everyone was nice and eager to talk and answer questions. I was really looking forward to hearing the SongTowers, which better than I had expected, running off a very nice AVA 30 watt tube amp. I also really enjoyed the Emerald Physics room. It was some of the best sound of what I heard at the show.
Finally, I really enjoyed the Zu Soul Superfly and the Omen. Enjoyed seeing Ron Williams, who I met last year at a Zu Party I hosted. I planned on buying the Omens before the show figuring I had 60 days to to try them out. I spent a lot of time with them in the Peachtree room and they too were better than I expected. So much so that I bought the black show demo. When I found out about the offer, I was also considering the Soul Superfly, which I enjoyed as well. Anyone who wants a nice budget system, get a Peachtree Nova and a pair of Omens.
Some of the best music I heard was a mono version Ben Webster with the Miyajima mono cart on the OMA Anatase turntable in the Rogue room. I forget the speakers that were in the room.
I almost forgot. The Selah Monitors I heard were excellent. I am not sure which model or the electronics but they just disappeared in the room and that was left was the music.
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I have been here since late Thursday night, and I am trying to Finnish going to all the rooms. I see people posting pictures, and I do not remember seeing those rooms, yet I have been on those floors. Yesterday I started going to the first room on a floor, take pics in that room, then, when I leave the room, take a picture of the sign outside, that way I can see which room I was in. I did that for the entire 9th floor, need to finish the 11th today, then go through the 10th. I might have missed some places on the 8th, and I guess I only visited a few vendors on the other side of the hotel. Maybe I should just go to 4 & 5 first, they appear to be smaller floors....
But, so far, the rooms I was most impressed with where Peachtree with the Sonas Fabers (don't remember the model), and other Sonas Fabers (ok, so I don't remember the room off the top of my head), the Super Fly's, The Clues, the High Emotion speakers. The equipment setup in the Magico room looked very expensive, which would make sense..... The guy was dressed nice, and I did not see him smile until one of the show goers started talking to him, at first I thought he would not even listen to anyone, and I did not notice anyone ask if they can play their own music. Oh, and the Acoustic Zen room was fun, I love vendors with an easy going/fun attitude! Acoustic Zen's, like so many of the really good speakers where just too much money..... Maybe I will just get The Clue, and the Zu Omens.... apparently I collect speakers.... I have too many already! Ha! Maybe I will take advantage of the 20% off deal and get a Peachtree Musicbox.... oh and then there where the JH Audio headphones.... bah.... not enough time or money, oh well, I am up early today, so I will hit the show early.... See you there!
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I only heard the cheaper song towers, maybe I will get a chance to hear the bigger ones. What is the special on the Super Fly's? Did they sell the demo Omen's for less than $1k? Also, I think a good budget combo would be the Peachtree Musicbox and the Omens..... just my opinion :)
I was able to hit most of the rooms I wanted to get to before leaving the show later today. I enjoyed sledding some time in the Salk room. Everyone was nice and eager to talk and answer questions. I was really looking forward to hearing the SongTowers, which better than I had expected, running off a very nice AVA 30 watt tube amp. I also really enjoyed the Emerald Physics room. It was some of the best sound of what I heard at the show.
Finally, I really enjoyed the Zu Soul Superfly and the Omen. Enjoyed seeing Ron Williams, who I met last year at a Zu Party I hosted. I planned on buying the Omens before the show figuring I had 60 days to to try them out. I spent a lot of time with them in the Peachtree room and they too were better than I expected. So much so that I bought the black show demo. When I found out about the offer, I was also considering the Soul Superfly, which I enjoyed as well. Anyone who wants a nice budget system, get a Peachtree Nova and a pair of Omens.
Some of the best music I heard was a mono version Ben Webster with the Miyajima mono cart on the OMA Anatase turntable in the Rogue room. I forget the speakers that were in the room.
I almost forgot. The Selah Monitors I heard were excellent. I am not sure which model or the electronics but they just disappeared in the room and that was left was the music.
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Alright, I suck - I didn't take a single shot of anything (and the new iPhone camera isn't that shabby for a built-in one :oops:). But, I have a few comments:
First, I've been audiophool disorder for about 35 years now. When I fully admitted my disorder a few years ago (and rediscovering the joys of vinyl...while digital began to improve immensely), my symptoms abated. So, while I was blown away by the show...I was more blown away meeting folks I've dialoged with here at AudioCircle for almost a decade for some.
Dinner with Tyson, Pez and woodsyi (along with a non-Audio Circle buddy of mine of over 34 years that flew in from SoCal that joined us) was a hoot. Drinking at 5000 feet is quite an experience my dendrites won't forget - ouch :duh:
If any of you are there today (Sunday) and want to hear a thought-provoking talk, my RPI-educated EE and National Sales Manager for Audio Precision test instruments and bud of 34 years from SoCal is speaking.
His topic is 'Lies, Damn Lies, & Specifications' is really thought-provoking. Jon Novick, my bud, did the presentation for me on Saturday morning as a run-thru....it's quite thought-provoking as to what all these specs mean (and don't mean). Non-EE's: It was sufficiently dumbed down so that non-Techies, such as myself, could carry the basic theme home.
Sunday, October 17, 2010
Aspen Amphitheater
12:30 p.m.
60 min
So many fine people met, or seen again, there from AudioCircle. Unfortunately, quite a few were met at at pre-dinner cocktails Friday nite. Being a lightweight and drinking at 5000 feet make for hazy recollections, sadly, so while I'm not sure I could tag a face to the nickname, it was nonetheless wonderful meeting so many of you there :oops:
As I was at the Tech Center for a day and a quarter, I didn't get to meet everyone I planned to. Two conspicuous absentee misses for me was Mike Galusha, and Paul 'Occam' Kaplan, (and Scott F. if he was there and I didn't know it) both known for many years here, will have to be remedied in future years :thumb:
Oops, I missed TONEPUB/Jeff Dorgay, too, and was planning to meet him :duh:
Perhaps later I'll share some thoughts on some of the rooms that made an impression on me.
John
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I only heard the cheaper song towers, maybe I will get a chance to hear the bigger ones. What is the special on the Super Fly's? Did they sell the demo Omen's for less than $1k? Also, I think a good budget combo would be the Peachtree Musicbox and the Omens..... just my opinion :)
The SongTowers I heard had the ribbon tweeter, not sure if anything else was an upgrade other than the veneer. I thought the Zu speakers had some of the vest sound staging of the show, certainly at there price level. I've given up trying to explain in any great detail how something sounds. I'm just not real good at it. Many of the rooms I visited, the music just seemed dead, without emotion, the rooms I liked were the ones that got my toes tapping. The Zu rooms were just a couple that had that effect.
Get the JH 13. I bought mine more than a year ago and it may be the best audio purchase I have made.
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Drinking at 5000 feet is quite an experience my dendrites won't forget - ouch :duh:
John, that's a piece of cake, try it @ 10,000 plus (Leadville, Co for example), two beers @ lunch and I had trouble walking !!
Sounds like it was a good show again this year, sorry I missed it, did you run into Wayner ?
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Rick's (Selah) monitors certainly did sound very nice and extremely coherent. I was very impressed with the reproduction of piano which is notorious for being difficult to do right.
Haven't had much of a chance to wander around this year. We've had a full room pretty much all weekend.
Made a change last night. Anybody that's still here in Denver, make sure to stop by. The Soundscapes are sounding better than ever. We're in the Iris room. Stop by and say hi.
Bryan
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It's been great show so far. I have't hit all the rooms yet. I have been trying to make it a point to visit all the rooms with AC connections. I will catch GR Research and Salk room today. I am here until the end today.
Meeting guys for the first time in person has been the greatest experience so far. Rooming with Big Red Machine has been a hoot too. Great dinner at Shanahans with Tyson, Pez and TCG. A bottle of CDP to start and a Brunello to finish with a Wagyu steak was fabulous. Second night at an Italian restaurant with Ted b, BRM, TomS among others was good too.
Some of the most impressive rooms that sticks in my mind are Vandy 7, TAD Ref 1 as well as the monitor at another room. TAD kicks butt. Soundsmith's Strain Gauge once again impressed despite bad room arrangement. Daedalus Ulysses were everywhere. The one with First Sound preamp and Berning OTL had the most cohesion. Ulysses with the Bow mated to Modwright amps and Wayne1's SB touch/EE DAC was impressive as well. Joseph Audio Pearl2 and Wilson Sophia were good too. The unsuspecting winner IMMO is the Purity Audio room with Rethm speakers augmented by RAAL dipole ribbons. Bill's Silver Statement preamp is quite the real deal. I didn't come intending to buy anything but I may have to get this one. And I already have a MBL and an Aesthetix preamp. :duh:
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Sounds like it was a good show again this year, sorry I missed it, did you run into Wayner ?
He wasn't with Frank van Alstine this year ( I asked); so, unless he went solo without telling me, I don't think he was there :scratch:
John
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Funny dealer quote... "The retail is x, the show special is y, and since you live near by, just drive a truck over and I'll give you a really good price", talking about a pair of speakers I liked :)
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Two conspicuous absentee misses for me was Mike Galusha, and Paul 'Occam' Kaplan, (and Scott F. if he was there and I didn't know it) both known for many years here, will have to be remedied in future years :thumb:
Hiya John,
I wish I could have attended this year but work got in the way...which in today's climate, is a very good thing.
Get this, believe it or not, after attending with me last year, my wife was wanting to attend again and was disappointed we weren't going. I guess that means we're going for sure next year :thumb: Since there was a large St Louis contingent plus a number of people we know from traveling around our fine country, she felt right at home. It also helps that we regularly hang out with Bryan (bpape) and his lovely wife Sue. Although the girls didn't spend a lot of time in any of the rooms, they spent plenty of time Downtown shopping and hitting the spas.
I know Mike is wandering around somewhere there. I don't which day is his but he mentioned the other day that he was working the Check In Desk for about four hours for CAS (Co audio Society). Not sure if Paul is roaming the halls, I haven't talked to him in a few weeks.
Anyway, wish we were there this year. :green:
Pez, Tyson, Laura and everybody else who are posting pics and reports, MUCHO THANKS for taking some of your show time to keep all of us that can't attend up to date almost in the real time :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Funny dealer quote... "The retail is x, the show special is y, and since you live near by, just drive a truck over and I'll give you a really good price", talking about a pair of speakers I liked :)
...and the speaker is?
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I thought I would leave that part out... but he is in San Diego... I actually forget the company name right now....
...and the speaker is?
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Any chance someone could post pics of Pez, Tyson and Laura? I have been taking allot of pictures myself, and will post later in the week (fingers crossed). Also, is Laura the one with the broken camera?
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Any chance someone could post pics of Pez, Tyson and Laura? I have been taking allot of pictures myself, and will post later in the week (fingers crossed). Also, is Laura the one with the broken camera?
Post #32 in THIS thread will answer some of your questions. :thumb:
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could someone please take pictures of the Purity Audio room ? thanks....WCW III
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How awesome is RMAF this year? I'll tell you. I just woke up (9 am) at home because of probably one of te most amazing listening sessions I have ever had went until 3 am. I wake up to my phone ringing and a fellow ACer asking 'where are you???'
I will post some impressions from last night as well as more pics at some point today because it... was.... awesome!!!! (thumbs up smiley guy)
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If you guys are still around today, stop by Room 542.
So far, the responses we have received have been tremendous. :-)
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Pez,
You are really making me wish I had stayed!
It was a real pleasure meeting all of the AC members, especially, Pez, Tyson, kshep, Stew, Big Red Machine, Jim, Mary, Laura, etc. I had a real blast and heard some of the "world's best."
I am in complete agreement with Pez that the Daedalus room sounded leagues better with the Modwright gear on Saturday. I poked my head into the Daedalus room Friday evening and walked right out; but Saturday was a completely different experience. The sound was so much more coherent and musical; a big thumbs up to Daedalus and also Dan Modwright. Dan's electronics are gorgeous to listen to AND look at; a win win for me. His new LS100 preamp is on my short list and is almost as nice as the LS 36.5, in my opinion.
Sorry folks, no pictures, but some of my favorites were:
Vandersteen Model 7's: These speakers sounded better on Friday than Saturday, perhaps because they were spinning vinyl and their choice of musical tracks were much more appealing to me. The front end consisted of almost all Audio Research gear, one of my favorite tube component manufacturers. The 7's have a midrange so gorgeous that hardly any other speaker could keep up IMO. The voices were clear and energetic, and just floated in time and space. The same can be said of the Dynaudio C4's and Salk SoundScape's, but the Vandies slightly edged them out. In case you already didn't know, I am a huge fan of a well implimented ribbon tweeter, and this speaker was one of few that didn't leave me wanting for more in the HF department. I don't know how Richard does it, but his dome tweeter(s) was among the best tweets I heard at the show. And the bass...wow! Let's just say those dual opposed 12-inch active woofers (in each speaker) won't ever leave you wanting! :o
Dynaduio C4's: This is one of three speakers that I could consider my be all, end all speaker. I do feel the midrange was more musical and engaging on the Vandersteen's, but the C4's were more consistent with the various listening positions I chose in the room, with a great overall tone. Off-axis FR stayed linear, which is a pinnacle part of designing a speaker properly, IMO. I found nothing offending with the C4's, and was very engaged by their ability to image and throw a very wide, deep soundstage. This is a speaker I'll never be able to afford but will dream about regularly.
Salk SoundScape's: For me, these speakers provided the best sound stage depth of any speaker at the show. To be fair the speakers did resided in one of the largest and properly treated rooms, so that probably helped. Nonetheless, the SoundScape's hung with the big boys, costing a quarter of the latter's asking prices. They threw a nice, wide sound stage and imaged like a son-of-a-gun. The midrange was spectacular; uncolored, extracting every detail possible. Those dual passive radiators also helped achieve some great bass depth without the usual overhang or port noise found in most bass reflex designs (I assume that is why Salk chose this design instead). Finally, the build quality was unmatched by any other vendor. If price was of insignificance to me I'd take the Dyn's or Vandies over these speakers, but considering the SoundScape's $14,000 price tag I thought they represented one of the best values at the show, if not the best.
Daedalus (see above, but in short: great speaker, with a build quality that rivaled the Salk's. Paired with the right electronics these speakers will have you grinning from ear to ear).
Acoustic Zen Crescendo: In my opinion these speakers are a steal! The easily filled the room with a wall of sound, providing tight, punchy bass and wonderful imaging. The midrange was clear and well defined, and the ribbon tweeter sounded oh so smooth and sweet. I would really love to audition these speakers in a larger listening area.
Evolution Acoustics MMMiniTwo: The fit and finish on these speakers rivaled some of the best, and the down-firing active subwoofer (one in each speaker) was a nice treat. Considering the room size the MiniTwo's threw a nice soundstage, with very commendable depth. Imaging was precise and the mids were detailed and musical. The top end walked the line of being too hot, but this is forgivable considering the sparse room treatments. All in all I really liked this speaker, albeit a steep asking price of $27,000/pair.
More to come later; football starts soon! :thumb:
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More pics later today including the Purity room. It's a great show. There is a pic with me in it earlier in this thread. Right now I'm enjoying breakfast with my 13 month old grandson.
Laura
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Anybody get a chance to sit with the Zu Omens and have any thoughts?? :thumb:
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Anybody get a chance to sit with the Zu Omens and have any thoughts?? :thumb:
I don't remember which speakers Zu had on display (the Omens?), but they were pleasant sounding. We listened to a lot of gear at a pretty quick pace, but I do recall liking what Zu had to offer.
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A big thank you to all for the outstanding coverage. I have seen a couple of mentions of Revel and Wilson. How did they stack up to the Salks, Vandys and C4s???
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I don't remember which speakers Zu had on display (the Omens?), but they were pleasant sounding. We listened to a lot of gear at a pretty quick pace, but I do recall liking what Zu had to offer.
Thanks!!
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... I've given up trying to explain in any great detail how something sounds. I'm just not real good at it. Many of the rooms I visited, the music just seemed dead, without emotion, the rooms I liked were the ones that got my toes tapping. The Zu rooms were just a couple that had that effect...
A better description and/or qualification is unnecessary! Well said! Great comments all! So much better, on most levels, than so-called professional journalist reports. Blessings to the forum, members, moderators, and JohnR.
Get the JH 13. I bought mine more than a year ago and it may be the best audio purchase I have made.
What is it?
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How awesome is RMAF this year? I'll tell you. I just woke up (9 am) at home because of probably one of te most amazing listening sessions I have ever had went until 3 am. I wake up to my phone ringing and a fellow ACer asking 'where are you???'
I will post some impressions from last night as well as more pics at some point today because it... was.... awesome!!!! (thumbs up smiley guy)
Pez
What if something HAPPENS to you before you disclose the system??? You can't wait...you MUST disclose it now!
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He wasn't with Frank van Alstine this year ( I asked); so, unless he went solo without telling me, I don't think he was there :scratch:
John
I'm at home, guarding the factory and working on a new TT project. Sorry I missed, but will try to attend next year. Save some beer for me.
Wayner :D
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Hi all,
I'm heading out to RMAF now, after a crazy 3 am listening session with Pez and a couple of other people last night. Since it's the last day of the show and we've hit a large number of rooms, I'll open things up a bit for requests and do my best to hit those vendors.
Any vendors in particular that you'd like me or Pez to check out? We'll do our best to get them today if we haven't already.
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Here are some more pics. I'll post descriptions and impressions later, assuming I can remember which room I was in when I took the picture :lol:
I was impressed with the sound in the Purity audio room. They have done a great job with the pre amp. Clayton monoblocks and I can't remember who makes the speakers
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37200)
The Odyssey room was a room I could have spent all day listening. The sound was detailed, balanced and non-fatiguing. I can't imagine one could find better sound than this for $5,500. We listened to vinyl on an Alex G modded Technics 1200. Very nice vinyl playback for not a lot of money. Congratualtions to Klaus and Alex on a great sounding room.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37201)
Klaus, Rim (woodsyi), John (The Chair Guy), and Alex in the Odyssey room. I can't remember if Klaus was choking Rim or giving him a shoulder massage :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37202)
The Van Alstine/Salk room. I had a nice visit with Frank and Mary. They have received a lot of good ink in TAS recently. I spent my time visiting with Frank & Mary and didn't do any critical listening.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37203)
The Bamberg Audio room with Modwright KWA 100, transporter & LS 100. I listened to the red speakers on Saturday and the larger speakers on Sunday. Both sounded great but I preferred the larger speakers. The bass was more defined and controlled. A UberBUSS was used to clean the power. I thought this was one of the better sounding rooms I heard.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37204)
The Artemis Labs room. I can't seem to remember what the room sounded like.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37205)
The Bogdan Audio room. Both speakers are hand made by the owner and quite expensive. I believe he wants $18,000 for the small ones. The large speakers were way too big for the small room and the bass was extremely boomy. The small ones had decent, but not great sound.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37206)
the Walker Audio room with the small TAD speakers. I liked the sound of these speakers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37207)
Peter Ledermann of Soundsmith. I spent a lot of time in this room listening to Peter's Strain Guage cartridge on both Teres and VPI turntables. I feel in love with this cartridge :inlove: and it is at or near the top of my short list for the next cartridge I buy. It truly seemed like Neil Young was in the room while listening to Cowgirl in the Sand from the Live at Massey Hall album. One of the most emotionally engaging cartridges I have ever heard.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37208)
The Daedalus Audio room on Saturday with 3 ModWright KWA 150s, the Gill Audio Alana pre amp, AMR CD player, the Bolder Cable modded Eastern Electric DAC, Galibier TT, Durand tonearm, Ortofon A-90 cartridge, Hagerman Trumpet phonostage, Dynamic Design cables and power cords, Furman power conditioner and a UberBUSS. Wayne (Bolder Cable) made the crossovers. The sound in this room late Saturday afternoon was wonderful--detailed, smooth, lots of dynamics, supurb tonal balance and extremely non fatiguing at both soft and loud volume levels.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37209)
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Hi all,
I'm heading out to RMAF now, after a crazy 3 am listening session with Pez and a couple of other people last night. Since it's the last day of the show and we've hit a large number of rooms, I'll open things up a bit for requests and do my best to hit those vendors.
Any vendors in particular that you'd like me or Pez to check out? We'll do our best to get them today if we haven't already.
In no particular order:
Vivid Audio Giya speakers, any, but preferably the smaller/stand-mounts.
Duke's Audio Kinesis new model with side-firing ambiance drivers.
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Hi all,
I'm heading out to RMAF now, after a crazy 3 am listening session with Pez and a couple of other people last night. Since it's the last day of the show and we've hit a large number of rooms, I'll open things up a bit for requests and do my best to hit those vendors.
Any vendors in particular that you'd like me or Pez to check out? We'll do our best to get them today if we haven't already.
I would love to hear about any outstanding monitors under $4K. Has anyone listened to the JM Reynaud room? I understand that the J-Corder room had a credible set of very inexpensive monitors. I love the Audio Note AN-E speakers but they are a bit pricey. And active monitors (if any) are also on my list of potential purchases. Thanks for taking the time to post here. WISH I was there!
Gregg
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Hi all,
I'm heading out to RMAF now, after a crazy 3 am listening session with Pez and a couple of other people last night. Since it's the last day of the show and we've hit a large number of rooms, I'll open things up a bit for requests and do my best to hit those vendors.
Any vendors in particular that you'd like me or Pez to check out? We'll do our best to get them today if we haven't already.
That's very generous of you to offer. I'd love to hear your impressions of the AudioKinesis room.
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If possible, would be much appreciated to read your audio impressions of the Vivid Audio Speakers:
Vendor/retailer "Tweak Geek" (303 653 6341) showing circa $7500/pr MSRP Vivid Audio V1.5 stand-mount, room 9013. I'm much more interested in this stand mount vs. the floor stander below. (There was once a dealer named Tweak Geek in Santa Rosa, CA.)
Vendor "On A Higher Note" showing Vivid Audio G2 Giya floor stander, Long's Peak on the Mezzanine Level.
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What is it?
JH Audio JH13 Pro inner ear monitor.
Ended up ordering the Zu Soul Superfly. I really liked the Omen but the Soul SF were just that much better. As good as the dynamics were with the Omen, the Soul SF were even better.
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Any opinions on the LessLoss setup (room 437) with Kasier speakers?
Thanks,
AP
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It's too bad Chris couldn't make it this year. The LoneWolf leaning against these SongTowers would have been perfect.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37210)
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It's too bad Chris couldn't make it this year. The LoneWolf leaning against these SongTowers would have been perfect.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37210)
Chris (Lonewolf) leaning against any loudspeaker with a beer in his hand is perfect. :lol:
Cheers,
Robin
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Here are the second batch of photos I took, there are a lot more coming later today.
TAD - I think I liked them, I don't have any notes for this room.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/TAD.jpg)
Tyler Acoustics D2- good sound and Ty was fun to talk to, a great guy.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/tyler_acoustics_d2.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/Ty.jpg)
Burmester had a warm inviting sound, I was pleasantly surprised.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/burmester.jpg)
Estelon was a bit to detailed for me.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/estelon.jpg)
Fritz Speakers sounded wonderful, one of the best sounding small speaker at the show. Fritz Heiler happily posed with the terrific sounding Carbon 7.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/fritz_speakers.jpg)
Horns were popular this year, the speakers were either Horning or Asparas the amps are by Thoress.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/horns1_thoress_amps.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/thoress_amps.jpg)
Wayne
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J-Corder had a very popular room, they revealed their new speakers too. The room was always crowded but I got lucky and got a shot of Kim Anderson, Jeff and Lorin Jacobs.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/j-corder.jpg)
Another photo of the Rethm speakers. Full range speakers just don't do it for me, they have a great coherency and center image but add their own coloration to everything they play that I can't ignore.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/rethm.jpg)
Rogue Audio
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/rogue_audio.jpg)
Roger Sanders next to his electrostatic/dynamic loudspeakers. The sound was very clear and open with good bass integration.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/sanders_sound.jpg)
Silverline speakers are new to me. The Sonatina MK IV (center) have nice deep, tight bass and sounded darn good.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/silverline.jpg)
Stello Electronics
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/stello.JPG)
Ron Sutherland proudly holding his new 20/20 phono pre-amp ($2020). No batteries here folks the amp is AC powered and includes a separate external AC power modules for each channel, followed by 10 sections of passive RC filtering and finalized with local constant voltage shunt regulation. Ron says the power supply can be as simple as a couple of wall warts.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/sutherland,ron%20phono.jpg)
As always the YG Acoustics room had plenty of detail, interesting to listing to but not relaxing. I went from the YG room into the Fritz Speakers room and my brain thanked me.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/yg_acoustics.jpg)
Wayne
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Those Thoress amps look so World War II!
Any comments on the Rogue Audio room???
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Great pictures! Thanks.
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Any comments on the Rogue Audio room???
I spent a decent amount of time in the Rogue room because a friend was interested in the OMA turntable and the mono cart (forget the brand of cart) and was also high on my list with the Revel Salon speakers. I heard a mono version of Ben Webster's Soulville in this room and it was some of the best music I heard. I never heard Rogue gear before RMAF and I was impressed with the sound. A number of rooms were real peaky and this room was not. I was talking to one of the guys manning the room and he said they spent a lot of time setting up the room and it paid off imo.
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Duke LeJeune of Audiokinesis next to his new Strato Prism speakers. A natural sounding horn speaker, it had a little too much bass for the small room but an interesting design that should be checked out in a larger room. Duke was fun to chat with too.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/audio_kinesis.jpg)
Audio Physic had a detailed presentation with deep low bass but the upper bass was lacking and sounded tonally thin.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/audio_physic.jpg)
Benchmark demoed their DAC through some speakers that were too small for an audio show, they were over driven and sounded bad at levels other speakers easily handled. I did enter the raffle for the free Benchmark DAC anyway.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/benchmark.jpg)
Lou Hinkley of Daedalus looking cool. His room on Saturday was one of the best sounding rooms at this years RMAF. The room also featured cables by Boulder and one of Wayne's modded DAC's.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/daedalus_with_lou_hinkley.jpg)
Emerald Physics CS2.7 with Wired4Sound Electronics - I'm still not a full range sound guy so no comment on the sound.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/emerald_physics%20cs2-7.jpg)
EJ Sarmento holding the new Wired4Sound DAC he designed.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/wired4sound-ej_sarmento.jpg)
Even though these speakers featured full range drivers they also included a crossover for the tweeter and woofer and they sounded great, this is how full range speakers are supposed to sound. The speakers use field coil drivers with excellent results.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/field_coil1.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/field_coil2.jpg)
Hiniwa speakers used active DSP and imaged great but they also had the highest detail of any speakers I heard at the show, they have limited low range so the sound was ultimately fatiguing.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/haniwa_speakers.jpg)
JBL knows how to do horns right, the Synthesis 1400 was a pleasure to listen to.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/jbl_synthesis_1400.jpg)
Jeff Joseph got a great big sound out of his Joseph Audio Pulsar speakers.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/joseph_audio_pulsar_with%20Jeff.jpg)
I liked the Kawero! speakers, they used premium parts including a Raal tweeter, Mundorf, and Duelund caps.
Many rooms used the Steinmusic Ambient Harmonizer in all four corners. I have no idea if they work or what they are supposed to do.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/kawero_speaker.jpg)
Wayne
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Question
Were Zu Omen playing or was it a stationary display ? From stereophile blog pictures, it appears that there were just standing there looking pretty.
Also
Any feadback on new technologies, DACs etc.
Soundsmith cartridge setup tool looks interesting, quick solution for those silly vinyl lovers. :wink:
Any thoughts on that?
Mariusz
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Question
Were Zu Omen playing or was it a stationary display ? From stereophile blog pictures, it appears that there were just standing there looking pretty.
Also
Any feadback on new technologies, DACs etc.
Soundsmith cartridge setup tool looks interesting, quick solution for those silly vinyl lovers. :wink:
Any thoughts on that?
Mariusz
They (Zu) had several pairs in the room. They had a bunch lined up when you entered the room and then the main listening ones. I liked them alot. But I actually liked the Zu Soul Superfly's more for some reason.
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I'm very surprised with all the pics that have been posted with the lack of room acoustic treatments. :scratch: Makes no sense to me.
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I'd assume some are hidden.
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Wayne,
Great pics. It was interesting those open baffle speakers from the FirstWatt/Lowther room above had Rythmik sealed servo subs and plate amps in them. I could be wrong but I thought he also said those field coil drivers were $15k+ :o
Vinnie from RWA had a very nice all battery system with his pre/dac, 70.2's and one of the various Zu's (Essence maybe?). It was a very enjoyable system to listen to as it all seemed to just work together really well. I'd never been all that impressed with Zu's, but they sounded quite good in his room Saturday.
Actually on room treatments that was one of the notable efforts to improve small rooms this year. GIK was well represented in a lot of places. I think ASC may have offered some kind of deal to place a set of half high full round traps in people's rooms if they wanted then. I saw lots of rooms with just 2 of those. I'm sure they helped some, but it's not comparable to the more complete GIK setups in some rooms. And yes, many were hidden behind drapes and posters.
Tom
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They (Zu) had several pairs in the room. They had a bunch lined up when you entered the room and then the main listening ones. I liked them alot. But I actually liked the Zu Soul Superfly's more for some reason.
Thanks!!!!!!!
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Just wanted to say Wayne, awesome coverage man! I heard a lot of the rooms you did and I have to say I agree while heartfelt with pretty much everything you've said. Thanks for the great effort!
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Almost all the rooms used room treatments, I cropped the photos. On average the sound this year was better than last year.
TomS, I think you are close on the price though it may be the total price of the speakers. I don't remember the price of the field coil drivers but they are in the thousands.
Wayne
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Just wanted to say Wayne, awesome coverage man! I heard a lot of the rooms you did and I have to say I agree while heartfelt with pretty much everything you've said. Thanks for the great effort!
There are more photos coming, I haven't even got the the vinyl installment yet.
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I'm all ready to start posting impressions, just waiting for Jason to start uploading the pics from Friday & Sat ;)
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Magico was playing a long recording of a piano solo using a reel-to-reel, the recording was dynamic and the speakers revealed every nuance. I would have liked to stay longer to hear other music but it was late in the day and my time was limited. I'm looking forward to reading Tyson's impressions.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/magico.jpg)
This is my mystery speaker #1.
Note to self: take better notes next year.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/mystery_speaker2.jpg)
Mystery speaker #2
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/mystery_speaker3.jpg)
Vitus Audio had a nice spacious sound.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/vitus_audio.jpg)
The Tweek Geek room featured the Vivid V1.5 and Mike Galusha. I was prepared not to like the small pods but they won me over. I'm thinking $10,000?
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/vivid_v1-5.jpg)
Steve Dobbins was featuring 'The Beat' direct drive turntable. The MBL speakers were his personal pair and not for sale. Needless to say vinyl plaback was excellent.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/the_beat_turntable.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/the_beat_turntable2.jpg)
A lot more turntables coming up tomorrow.
Wayne
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The mystery speaker #1 is the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme (T) speaker. It is $26k. It is supposed to be good but for 26 it should be. The sensitivity is 94 db.
How did they sound?
Bob
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Mystery speaker #2 were some Genesis's in the PS Audio room.
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I almost forgot. The Selah Monitors I heard were excellent. I am not sure which model or the electronics but they just disappeared in the room and that was left was the music.
Selah was showing the Verita powered by Red Dragon ICEPower Amps
http://www.selahaudio.com/id216.html
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The mystery speaker #1 is the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme (T) speaker. It is $26k. It is supposed to be good but for 26 it should be. The sensitivity is 94 db.
How did they sound?
Bob
I think they sounded lively. Those high sensitivity speakers certainly have a jump factor. I forgot what they were so I guess they didn't make a lasting impression.
Mystery speaker #2 were some Genesis's in the PS Audio room.
Thanks, it was the end of the day and I didn't give them a proper listen.
Wayne
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Wow! Great, and much appreciated coverage!
The Vivid Audio V1.5 are $7500/pr USD MSRP, employing the exact same drivers and design architecture as their much larger floor-standing flagship over $50k. Thanks for the image and listening impression. Considering the recommendation from an acquaintance they are a must hear.
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I liked the Vivid 1.5's as well. Forgot to put that in my Best of RMAF thread.
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I can't remember the exact history of the Vivid designer, but suffice to say he has a stellar and extensive record of successful, innovative speakers. Apparently the V1.5 is made with an integrated stand to the floor or a flat pedestal allowing the user's own stand or placement on a shelf, table, etc.
One acquaintance is familiar with my old French ASA Pro Monitors, and remarked the V1.5 have a rare combination of "timbral accuracy and timbral beauty". He also placed them above such premium pieces as the Wilson Benesch A.C.T. (U.K., not to be confused with Dave Wilson, a mix of exotic materials including W.C.F. enclosures) and a very rare Australian speaker with sealed woofer alignment.
For the technology and promised performance they seem to be very moderately priced. Certainly they lack the first octave and head banging SPL, but that might be all they lack.
No idea about the load characteristics.
I've heard and enjoyed the hugest MBL omnis at CES, but they normally play too loud there; it would be great to hear the smaller models and at more normal levels.
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What speaker stood out at a sane price? I dunno...let's say.....$3K-$4K? tops or less hopefully.
From several reports it seems like the Fritz Carbon 7 gets a nod.
Once again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but many of of do not have $20k for speakers alone.
cheers to all
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All,
Still at RMAF (leaving tomorrow)... GREAT SHOW!
Vinnie from RWA had a very nice all battery system with his pre/dac, 70.2's and one of the various Zu's (Essence maybe?). It was a very enjoyable system to listen to as it all seemed to just work together really well. I'd never been all that impressed with Zu's, but they sounded quite good in his room Saturday.
Thanks, Tom!
Yes - those were the Zu Essence. Today Alex Rosson of Audeze brought his iPad full of some amazing electronica that he composed and we fed it to the Cypher Labs AlgoRythm Solo to the Isabella's dac - mega clean, high SPL energy that was a welcome change to keep me smiling and FEELING the love! 8)
I want to thank all the AudioCircle memebers who came to visit - It was great meeting new faces and seeing ones from previous shows! I'm still buzzing from the show, but sooooo lacking on sleep :hyper: :sleep:
Cheers!
Vinnie
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What speaker stood out at a sane price? I dunno...let's say.....$3K-$4K? tops or less hopefully.
From several reports it seems like the Fritz Carbon 7 gets a nod.
Once again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but many of of do not have $20k for speakers alone.
cheers to all
Fritz's Carbon 7's sounded very good...a pretty compelling value at $1750.00 a pair (I think).
2 months ago I heard his room at a much smaller San Francisco audio show....and he was playing his smaller model (don't remember the name) and that was pretty fine, too.
Hefty cabinets, great parts, minimal crossovers...a simple and effective recipe for good sound in a speaker :thumb: (a personable fella' helps things along, too).
John
EDIT: just saw Vinnie's post...so sincerely great to meet you, too, and so pleased business and family life are good for you these days. Tuff to mention everything, but I thought your room sounded rather good, too.
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Thanks, John - it was great to finally meet you! Wish I had more free to chat during the show.
Thanks again,
Vinnie
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What speaker stood out at a sane price? I dunno...let's say.....$3K-$4K? tops or less hopefully.
From several reports it seems like the Fritz Carbon 7 gets a nod.
Once again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but many of of do not have $20k for speakers alone.
cheers to all
Duke's new speakers might be my pick at just over that price point. Easy to drive. Non-bipole version is less but they weren't at the show. A bigger room would probably do them more justice but very nice overall.
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Pics for ltr317, sorry Paul couldn't figure out a better way to do this for you!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5091612541_d753a9d99c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5091613049_b27cbf8d46.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5091613777_6e9814ca97.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5091614259_f296e0668c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092212724_876b6e604c.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5091615073_c9192bb586.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5091615801_860ec7a744.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5091616203_a98003b356.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5091616779_ca2b6d25cb.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5092216068_e8682899c6.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5092216450_5c6f9109a3.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5092217234_20f96c95d7.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4153/5091619685_df4a69e26d.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5091620115_fc50b6bc46.jpg
He will be on later of course to add comments.
I will be on later as well, but I have to tell you, I am exhausted. I'll probably be posting tomorrow. Until then I believe Tyson is working something up.
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From WGH, "Burmester had a warm inviting sound, I was pleasantly surprised". I appreciate your pleasure, but am surprised that you found the Burmester to be anything but warm and inviting. :) I just purchased the Burmester 089 CD/DAC/PRE, and consider it to be my most important audio instrument in my life. And a big thanks to all who shared their pics!
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Were Zu Omen playing or was it a stationary display ? From stereophile blog pictures, it appears that there were just standing there looking pretty.
Zu didn't have the Omens playing in their room. They had 3 of them on static display and had the Soul Superflys playing for the entire show.
A pair of Omens were playing in the Peachtree Audio room. The focus of the room was more about integrating digital files into your system. The demo was done using an iPad, a MacBook, 3 separate Apple TVs and 3 separate systems. The demonstrator defaulted to using the system with the Sonus Faber Stradivari for most of the time, but I did manage to sneak in on Saturday morning and get the Omens going for a while.
Based on what I heard, I like the Omen's driver more than the Soul's driver. The Soul may be more detailed, but the Omen seems more natural to me. I've also found that the Superfly develops a somewhat nasal sound quality under certain conditions, although I haven't had enough time with them to figure out exactly what those conditions are (I don't own any Zu brand equipment, but I did have a pair of Superflys in my house for 3 days). I didn't detect this same sound quality with the Omens, although my audition time was brief.
My only concern with the speaker is that it is fairly short and the tweeter is placed below the full-range driver. In the demo room this definitely pulled the entire soundstage down and gave the feeling of sitting on a balcony overlooking the stage. Sitting at home on my couch, though, and looking at where the speakers would sit makes me think that this wouldn't be too big an issue for me. My couch isn't all that tall and I sit pretty far away.
The choice for me is pretty easy because I can afford $1000 for a pair of Omens, but not $2600 for a pair of Superflys. If my budget were higher, I'd probably hold out and see what Zu releases in the next few months. I tried to get the guys to say what they had planned but didn't have any luck. It did sound like there was a lot more planned for the next 6 months, though.
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- Excellent coverage. Thanks goes out to those who have taken the time to provide pics and feedback. I'm real pissed that I missed this show. My friend was 40 minutes late in taking me to the airport, causing me to miss my flight. $@#!@$@!!!!
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OK, it took a while, but here's my take on this year's RMAF.
General Impressions and Notes
This year's RMAF was an absolute blast. Meeting all the fellow AC people was a GREAT experience for me. All of you rock, best group of people at the show, bar none!
I especially enjoyed this year because Jason and I were focused on just hitting rooms we thought would be fun/interesting, unlike last year when we were frantically trying to listen to, photograph, and document every single room at RMAF. We didn't hit every room this year, but then again, we didn't even try to.
It also seems like most rooms go through 3 distinct phases - Friday is either mediocre or poor sound, Saturday is sounding pretty darn good, and Sunday people have the systems really dialed in very nicely. Sunday is supposed to go till 6pm, but everyone at the show started packing it in at 4pm and heading out like rats from a sinking ship.
On a different note, some rooms were much better this year than they were last year. But, oddly enough, some of the really great rooms from last year were only mediocre this year. On the other hand, some rooms (like Odyssey) are so consistently good from year to year that it's easy to kinda take them for granted.
Last observation - I'm a bit shocked how passive many of our fellow audiophiles are. They sort of quietly shuffle from room to room, slip in, and meekly sit down. I have a feeling that Jason and I were the only bit of life and laughter that had entered the room all day, many times.
Oh, final note - Jason and I listened to a LOT of rooms, but if I have not commented on your room, it's for one of 3 reasons. Either we didn't get to it (most likely), or we didn't like it (also fairly probable), or it was good but not especially memorable (not very likely).
Friday
CanJam - Spent a lot of time at CanJam on this day. A few surprises, the Sennheiser HD800's do NOT live up to the hype, I like the HD600's quite a bit better. Sure, the 800's have a better soundstage, but IMO the 600's are better in every other way. On the other hand, the Beyerdynamic T1's absolutely live up to the hype. These are GREAT headphones. Clearly better than the HD600's and the super-badass modded 2003 DT880's that Jason owns.
Only other thing worth noting at Canjam is that the JH Audio Pro 13 in ear monitors are da-bomb. They were the best of the JH lineup, even better than the more expensive (and bigger) Pro 16. Easily beat out the best Etymotics, Shures, and Ultimate Ears. Although, I learned that it's bad form to compare them favorably to my Sensaphonic 2x-S IEM's with the designer. He was a wiry, super-tattoo'd dude that designed most of the Shure's, all of the Ultimate Ears, and split out to start JH. When I made the comparison ("Hey, these 13's sound just like my 2x-S!") Jason said he feared for my life :D
Daedalus Room - This is the "main" room, with the Atmasphere amps on the main speakers, and the Modwright amps on the new subs. Sounds terrible. I heard the Atma's last year "after hours" hooked up to the Ulysses speakers. Sounded mediocre then, and sounds much, much worse now. Room sounds terrible. Luckily, the Atma's are kicked to the curb relatively quickly and the room starts to sound good again (see my Saturday update).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37118)
Modwright Room - Here is a room to write home about!! Sure, it's got the "small" Daedalus speakers, and it's solid state amps, but it's got a tubed preamp and a tubed source (modded Sony and modded Oppo), and it sounds FABULOUS! For the first day, this room is my absolute pick for best sound. The Oppo is so good that I think there's very little gap between it and the very nice VPI turntable. As someone that has always felt that analog has a large inherent advantage over digital, this is quite a statement. Dan should be congratulated, he is clearly a badass designer who absolutely knows what the hell he is doing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37119)
Emerald Physics - I was very, very disappointed with the EP room last year at RMAF. Overall boring in the bass/mids and really shouty and bright in the highs. However, this year they were MUCH improved. According to the designer, they were only different in the cabinetry, but my ears told me that they are much better integrated in the mid/tweeter range, and quite a bit more musical.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.com/audio/RMAF2010/day2/emerald_physics%20cs2-7.jpg)
Empirical Audio - The Salk Soundscapes and the BPT power conditioners also shared this room. What can I say, Steve has GREAT taste in music :D Several tracks of Mahler and I'm a very happy boy! Now, understand that I am a dyed in the wool tube guy, and this system is completely solid state. To make matters worse, I absolutely hate metal and ceramic midrange drivers. Of course the Soundscapes use a ceramic mid with an all SS system in front of them. Oh, you can hear me groaning to myself already! How did it sound? Suprisingly good!! While I would prefer a richer tonal balance (being a paper driver and tube guy), I thought the soundstage depth and separation was outstanding, and the overall coherence was also very impressive. I might not be an SS/Ceramic guy, but for those people that are, this is the system for you!!! Details out the wazoo and the speakers did not sound "short", even though they are physically short.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5084495211_1c67190b2e.jpg)
German Physics - I love rooms like this. They are not "perfect" in the traditional cone/dome/planar sense, but they use different technology to do things that are very, very interesting. The strengths are that the soundstage was absolutely stable no matter where you stood or sat in the room. They actually had pretty good deep bass with the downfiring woofer at the base of the speaker. But, the one thing that I missed was the physical thump and visceral impact that a front facing woofer can give you. No pic, sorry that Jason was falling down on the job.
TAD - Awesome room. Jeez, these things are incredibly built. Big, impressive, and highly musical sound. I'll NEVER own a speaker this expensive, but it does not diminsh how great they sound.
Kimber/Sony - A Sony speaker? Are you f'ing kidding me?!? Jason was bored in this room, but I liked it. Not the most dynamic speakers ever, but I thought they were quite musical in an even-handed sort of way. The tweeter (a Scan-Speak 6600) and mids (a Scan-Speak 5.5 inch Illuminator) are very nice. Maybe not the most attention-grabbing setup, they still were quite pleasant.
Quad - Good sounding speakers, but like the crappy Dynaudio speakers last year, these did not image well at all. The performers literally sounded like they were stuck in a pit dug into the floor. These speakers are too short, they really, really need some stands.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4153/5091619685_df4a69e26d.jpg)
GR Research - Danny got a haircut! Missing the curls, buddy ;) The woodwork on the V1's was killer, way, way better than my puny attempts. I thought they were a bit bright and a bit loose in the bass today. On the other hand, they had killer imaging. In fact, the imaging was among the best. I also checked the room out on Saturday, see my update there.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/21257840@N02/5083732453/in/photostream/)
Selah AudioRick is much younger than I pictured in my head. I always imagined a wizened old man with a white flowing beard (no joke!). But he's quite non-old :D He gets major props from me for not locking his door precisely at 6pm on Friday and actually let us in to listen (unlike some of the other jerk-off rooms we tried first). These are really, really good stand mount speakers. I thought from my spot they were a tiny bit boomy, but were otherwise very coherent and very nice sounding. That RAAL tweeter is very nice indeed. The bass issues were almost certainly the room and not the speaker (and I speak from experience here). While the speakers in the room do not displace my favorite Selah speaker (the AWESOME Excelarray that a local Denverite owns), it was really nice for a stand mount. I guess I'm just a tower speaker kinda guy :P
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5087473331_67bb3ce2bd.jpg)
And like I said earlier, if you room is not mentioned, either we didn't get to it, or it sucked bad enough that we didn't want to embarrass you.
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Daedalus Room - This is the "main" room, wiht the Atmasphere amps on the main speakers, and the Modwright amps on the new subs. Sounds terrible. I heard the Atma's last year "after hours" hooked up to the Ulysses speakers. Sounded mediocre then, and sounds much, much worse now. Room sounds terrible. Luckily, the Atma's are kicked to the curb relatively quickly and the room starts to sound good again (see my Saturday update).
OTLs will not perform well with a 6 ohm load.
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HAHA, you are NOT kidding :P And to be honest, I've heard the Atma's in a few different systems and they have pretty much sucked in all of them, IMO.
Of course, I have not heard YOUR system, so maybe you can invite me over (and pay for my plane ticket) to listen to them. Perhaps then I will like them? And maybe you will stop feeling the need to defend them?
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Put THESE (http://www.zeroimpedance.com/) in between the Atma-Spheres and the Ulysses and you have game changer.
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Dude, seriously, the DESIGNER of the Atma's was in the room working on them. If there was anything needed like the autoformers, don't you think the f'ing designer would have insisted on them?
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OTLs will not perform well with a 6 ohm load.
HAHA, you are NOT kidding :P
No, BS you're both wrong. The Berning Amp performed admirably on the Daedalus speakers with the Ulysses. The freakin Atmaspheres were solely to blame and that is the end of it. You can argue that it was a "bad match" but wow, 4 out of 4 rooms I listened to with Atmaspheres were a "bad match"? Damn what are the odds?
And also LOL! Putting OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS into a OUTPUT TRANSFORMER-LESS tube amp? That's like eating a tortilla with a naked burrito. :rotflmao:
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I can't seem to play nice (and neither can Pez), for which I apologize (both to Wind Chaser, as well as the general reader). Anyway, on to Saturday's coverage....
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OK, before WC started crapping on this thread.... let me finish up on Friday's coverage. Chairguy, Pez, me, woodsyi, and some other dude (haha, sorry man, you are a damn liar), went for dinner at Shanahans. I gotta say, this was one of the most incredible nights of bonding ever. Hearing chairguy get drunk off his ass and go on and on about how spectacular the mushrooms are was immensely enjoyable. And hearing woodsyi chew out both the manager and the wine guy to their face was absolutely priceless!!! But I got your back guys, you both ROCK and I LOVE the cajones on BOTH of you. PEZ, not so much.
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But I got your back guys, you both ROCK and I LOVE the cajones on BOTH of you. PEZ, not so much.
Darn, Tyson doesn't like my... Cajones. :duh:
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Zu didn't have the Omens playing in their room. They had 3 of them on static display and had the Soul Superflys playing for the entire show.
A pair of Omens were playing in the Peachtree Audio room. The focus of the room was more about integrating digital files into your system. The demo was done using an iPad, a MacBook, 3 separate Apple TVs and 3 separate systems. The demonstrator defaulted to using the system with the Sonus Faber Stradivari for most of the time, but I did manage to sneak in on Saturday morning and get the Omens going for a while.
Based on what I heard, I like the Omen's driver more than the Soul's driver. The Soul may be more detailed, but the Omen seems more natural to me. I've also found that the Superfly develops a somewhat nasal sound quality under certain conditions, although I haven't had enough time with them to figure out exactly what those conditions are (I don't own any Zu brand equipment, but I did have a pair of Superflys in my house for 3 days). I didn't detect this same sound quality with the Omens, although my audition time was brief.
My only concern with the speaker is that it is fairly short and the tweeter is placed below the full-range driver. In the demo room this definitely pulled the entire soundstage down and gave the feeling of sitting on a balcony overlooking the stage. Sitting at home on my couch, though, and looking at where the speakers would sit makes me think that this wouldn't be too big an issue for me. My couch isn't all that tall and I sit pretty far away.
The choice for me is pretty easy because I can afford $1000 for a pair of Omens, but not $2600 for a pair of Superflys. If my budget were higher, I'd probably hold out and see what Zu releases in the next few months. I tried to get the guys to say what they had planned but didn't have any luck. It did sound like there was a lot more planned for the next 6 months, though.
Thank you for your honest impressions. Seems like there is not a whole lot to cry about in $999 per pair speakers....... However, positioning of the tweeter and the height of the speaker is a little concerning. If something simple as solid base speaker stand could solve the "balcony" staging issue, maybe its performance could be elevated a few notches???
As to differences between the Omens and Souls..... I am with you on less forward presentation.
FWIW - I'll try different amps with my pair ones it arrives, but tube pre and 300b SET is most likely a combo that Omens will be paired with.
Ones again thanks for your impressions
Mariusz :thumb:
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Hearing chairguy get drunk off his ass and go on and on about how spectacular the mushrooms are was immensely enjoyable. And hearing woodsyi chew out both the manager and the wine guy to their face was absolutely priceless!!!
Now.....that's funny...... :lol: :lol: :rotflmao:
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OK, Saturday is a game changer for me in the high end audio realm. We'll start with the normal stuff and get to the extraordinary at the end. Actually, as I think about Saturday, HOLY CRAP what a huge day it was. I can't believe the number of good to great rooms we heard. Like I said earlier, RMAF this year ROCKED!!! I'll try to hit the highlights here.
GR Research - Went back to see how things had changed since Friday. HOLY CRAP the bass on the V1's was out of this world. By far this was the best bass of any room of the entire show. In fact, it's the best bass production of anything I've heard anywhere in my entire life!! The mids were also excellent. But the tweeters were too hot for my tastes, and I thought the room was a bit too bright overall. I think there is an easy fix for this (reticulated foam in the tweeter horn throat), but I don't think Danny had a chance to try it at the show.
Fritz Speakers - The thing I love about this room (besides the super-cool proprietor), is that they don't try to be something they are not. Very good sound, even, balanced, and incredibly musical. If someone asked me to recommend a bookshelf speaker that was great quality, this would be it.
Marantz Room - Marantz, meh.
Linkwitz Orion - One of the great white hopes. Based on the buzz (and my own logical reasoning), I expected to love this room. I do have to say that meeting Linkwitz was a true honor. But if I am honest I must note that I do not like the metal midrange SEAS driver. The bass was too strong. However, them imaging was incredible, as only open baffle speakers can do. Overall it's really close to the best ever sound, but the signifigant gaps really need to be addressed before that can happen.
Jones Amps - A room with speakers that have metal drivers? And SS amplification? Oh no, I am covering my ears already! But, surprisingly they sounded very, very mellow and quite involving/relaxed. Clearly they truncated dynamics, but I am perfeclty OK with that trade off for the smooth sound they produced.
YG Acoustics - Sounded terrible last year, and sounded "meh" this year. From bad to mediocre is still an improvement.
AudioKenesis - Finally! A room to write home about. Meeting Duke was a pleasure, and his speakers were truly musical. Very good dynamics and tonality and great imaging. Loved, LOVED his demo/explanation of multiple ports on his speakers and their "high end" plugs ;)
JBL Horn - I forget the name of the model, but I do know that they are FAR better than the much more expensive models we will hear on Sunday.
Tri-Audio/Acoustic Zen - My vote for best sound at show, bar none. Imaging to die for, and gets to the soul and heart of the music more effortlessly thann anything else I've heard over the last three days. $6k for a friggin 845 SET with 20 watts on tap? You gotta be kidding me!!!
Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):
German Physics - The little brother of the last room. I actually think I liked these better than the bigger GP's. Better mid bass and the same awesome highs and imaging.
Lonely Orphans Feeling No Love - No comment necessary:
Magico Room - Mediocrite personified.
Dynaudio C4 - My vote for biggest improvement year over year. Last year the Dynaudio room was terrible. It was the Consequence Ultimate model and it was absolute sh!t. I mean, WTF were they thinking, this is a seriously flawed and stupid concept. But, this year they bring out the Confidence C4 which is a GREAT speaker. And they hook it up with a tube amp!!! Couple that with dual dac's (YES, DUAL DAC's, you heard that right) from Wadia over a very good music server and you have great, great sound. My vote for 2nd best overall sound at show (caveat - the music sever was awesome but the CD transport was mediocre at best).
Salk Speakers - OK, truth time. Last year I simply hated the Salk room - the combo of bright ribbon tweeter and metal midrange simply drove me out of the room. I didn't say anything at the time because I'm a gentleman. I'm very happy to report that the circular crappy ribbon tweeter has been replaced with a RAAL tweeter this year. This is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement!! For me personally, the SALKS are still not quite my preferred flavor, but the sound did not drive me out of the room. In fact, listening to how coherent and detailed they are from top to bottom, combined with the absoletly STUNNING cabinet work and craftmanship on them, I'd give them the "FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER BARGAIN OF THE SHOW" award. IMO, Salk speakers really need to break away from the mid-fi AVA gear and start showing with true high end gear to really show what they are capable of. I know Jim and Frank are probably friends, but business is business.
GR Research (again) - OK, the V1's kick the sh!t out of my V2's from a bass standpoint. In fact, I will go further. The V1's with their dual parallel active servo subs kick the sh!t out of EVERY speaker I have ever heard in my entire life. Stunning, awesome, incredible, jaw dropping.... I simply run out of superlatives. Mids on this day are also very, very good. But, the highs are even brighter and more shouty today. It's a single flaw but it really bothers me, particularly since my V2's don't have this balance at all (they are NOT bright). I have a theory about the cause of this, but you have to read my V2 build thread to find out what it is :P Again, Danny is an absolute pleasre to talk to and work with, and the value he offers is off the scale. Nothing speaks louder than someone voting with their wallet, and of all the possible speakers I could invest in, I went with the V2's and I'm still absolutely, completely happy with them.
Von Schweikert Audio - OK, before last year at RMAF I'd never heard or seen a VS speaker in real life. My impressions last year were that they were tiny (hobbit-like) speakers that sounded very bad indeed. I did not post that during my show report, because I do not like to bad mouth manufacturer in general, and particularly not ones that are clearly making an attempt to push the envelope of design for their products. But the fact is, I didn't like the VS room at all. But this year? Complete 180. The VS room was musical, soulful, beautiful and involving. Of course, having 45 watts of Cronzilla SET amp power driving your tower speakers does NOT hurt, IMO :)
B&W 802 Diamond - Better than the stock 802, but the massive sibilance still makes them suck.
Grant Fidelity - Very good sound and amazing case work on the equipment for a very modest price. Black Treasures all around (which are the BEST tubes you can get - too bad I blew a quad of KT88's and I did not get the warrantee, so I'm screwed).
Nola Audio - yes, open baffle can actually suck!!
Avalon and Rowland - Hey, here's a great idea, let's put a bunch of our really expensive sh!t on passive display so that NO ONE can listen to it! Yeah, that's a f'ing brilliant idea!
Win Audio / Rockport - One of the rooms that really was amazing last year and took a huge drop this year. I don't care how big your tube amp is, it should NOT be driving this speaker full range. Oh, and I disavow knowing any of these losers in the photo.
Music and Arts - Amazing room!!!!!!!!!!!!! When audiophiles say "it's all about the music", this room is what they mean!!!!! Too awesome for words, so I won't even try. Buy every recording he makes, you won't be sorry! And his speakers/system was super simple, but incredibly musical and involving. As an alternative to a "lifestyle" system, it simply kick's @ss. Even judged on an absolute scale it is very, very impressive.
Aperion Audio - This room, from a sound quality standpoint, gives the Salk room a serios run for the money with regard to value. At least the tower speakers do (at $1700). The bookshelf speakers are pretty meh, but the towers sound very good for very little outlay. Ultimatley I'd go with the Salks becuase of their stunning cabinetry, but the Aperions sound more mellow and would be a good rec for non-audiophiles that just want something that "sounds good".
Fritz Speakers - Ah, finally a bookshelf speaker that I can write about! I find I simply dislike small speakers becuase they sound small, or they are bright and irritating, or they simply lack a sense of scale that I love. But not here! Fritz is a MASTER designer and his speakers sound incredibly musical and involving. Always a man to take the less beaten path, he ignores fashion and picks components that simply make beautiful music. I love the fact that these speakers never try to be more than a bookshelf speaker, but rather they simply are the best bookshelf speaker that can be.
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Your pictures do not show :scratch:
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Yes, PEZ's flickr account is crap, sorry about that! I'll try to get him to rectify it tomorrow. For myself, it is time to sleep and I'll continue tomorrrow.
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And it gets better! Pez is not even out of the room and he's telling me (within earshot of the room reps) "Man, can you believe how bad this room sucked!" Jeez, people say I lack tact!
:lol: .....From last years thread....RMAF 2009...the Win Audio room (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72327.msg677535#msg677535)
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If I'm not mistaken, he's the designer of the B&W seashell speaker.
I can't remember the exact history of the Vivid designer, but suffice to say he has a stellar and extensive record of successful, innovative speakers. Apparently the V1.5 is made with an integrated stand to the floor or a flat pedestal allowing the user's own stand or placement on a shelf, table, etc.
One acquaintance is familiar with my old French ASA Pro Monitors, and remarked the V1.5 have a rare combination of "timbral accuracy and timbral beauty". He also placed them above such premium pieces as the Wilson Benesch A.C.T. (U.K., not to be confused with Dave Wilson, a mix of exotic materials including W.C.F. enclosures) and a very rare Australian speaker with sealed woofer alignment.
For the technology and promised performance they seem to be very moderately priced. Certainly they lack the first octave and head banging SPL, but that might be all they lack.
No idea about the load characteristics.
I've heard and enjoyed the hugest MBL omnis at CES, but they normally play too loud there; it would be great to hear the smaller models and at more normal levels.
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Pics for ltr317, sorry Paul couldn't figure out a better way to do this for you!
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5091612541_d753a9d99c.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5091612541_d753a9d99c.jpg)
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He will be on later of course to add comments.
I will be on later as well, but I have to tell you, I am exhausted. I'll probably be posting tomorrow. Until then I believe Tyson is working something up.
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/satfrat/5091612541_d753a9d99c.jpg?t=1287390092)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/satfrat/5091613049_b27cbf8d46.jpg?t=1287390313)
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Cheers,
Robin
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Awesome pics and words, thanks for posting guys, especially Tyson for the honest opinions. Good to hear the GR Research are as impressive as I hoped, building a pair now. :D
Wish I could be there, maybe next year we'll come over. :)
Are there posts missing? Seems like I get a notification but the post has dissapeared, has the thread been pruned?
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Sometimes people remove their own posts.
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Sometimes people remove their own posts.
Fair enough, was just curious, thanks :)
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OK, Saturday is a game changer for me in the high end audio realm. We'll start with the normal stuff and get to the extraordinary at the end. Actually, as I think about Saturday, HOLY CRAP what a huge day it was. I can't believe the number of good to great rooms we heard. Like I said earlier, RMAF this year ROCKED!!! I'll try to hit the highlights here.
GR Research - Went back to see how things had changed since Friday. HOLY CRAP the bass on the V1's was out of this world. By far this was the best bass of any room of the entire show. In fact, it's the best bass production of anything I've heard anywhere in my entire life!! The mids were also excellent. But the tweeters were too hot for my tastes, and I thought the room was a bit too bright overall. I think there is an easy fix for this (reticulated foam in the tweeter horn throat), but I don't think Danny had a chance to try it at the show.
Fritz Speakers - The thing I love about this room (besides the super-cool proprietor), is that they don't try to be something they are not. Very good sound, even, balanced, and incredibly musical. If someone asked me to recommend a bookshelf speaker that was great quality, this would be it.
Marantz Room - Marantz, meh.
Linkwitz Orion - One of the great white hopes. Based on the buzz (and my own logical reasoning), I expected to love this room. I do have to say that meeting Linkwitz was a true honor. But if I am honest I must note that I do not like the metal midrange SEAS driver. The bass was too strong. However, them imaging was incredible, as only open baffle speakers can do. Overall it's really close to the best ever sound, but the signifigant gaps really need to be addressed before that can happen.
Jones Amps - A room with speakers that have metal drivers? And SS amplification? Oh no, I am covering my ears already! But, surprisingly they sounded very, very mellow and quite involving/relaxed. Clearly they truncated dynamics, but I am perfeclty OK with that trade off for the smooth sound they produced.
YG Acoustics - Sounded terrible last year, and sounded "meh" this year. From bad to mediocre is still an improvement.
AudioKenesis - Finally! A room to write home about. Meeting Duke was a pleasure, and his speakers were truly musical. Very good dynamics and tonality and great imaging. Loved, LOVED his demo/explanation of multiple ports on his speakers and their "high end" plugs ;)
JBL Horn - I forget the name of the model, but I do know that they are FAR better than the much more expensive models we will hear on Sunday.
Tri-Audio/Acoustic Zen - My vote for best sound at show, bar none. Imaging to die for, and gets to the soul and heart of the music more effortlessly thann anything else I've heard over the last three days. $6k for a friggin 845 SET with 20 watts on tap? You gotta be kidding me!!!
Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):
German Physics - The little brother of the last room. I actually think I liked these better than the bigger GP's. Better mid bass and the same awesome highs and imaging.
Lonely Orphans Feeling No Love - No comment necessary:
Magico Room - Mediocrite personified.
Dynaudio C4 - My vote for biggest improvement year over year. Last year the Dynaudio room was terrible. It was the Consequence Ultimate model and it was absolute sh!t. I mean, WTF were they thinking, this is a seriously flawed and stupid concept. But, this year they bring out the Confidence C4 which is a GREAT speaker. And they hook it up with a tube amp!!! Couple that with dual dac's (YES, DUAL DAC's, you heard that right) from Wadia over a very good music server and you have great, great sound. My vote for 2nd best overall sound at show (caveat - the music sever was awesome but the CD transport was mediocre at best).
Salk Speakers - OK, truth time. Last year I simply hated the Salk room - the combo of bright ribbon tweeter and metal midrange simply drove me out of the room. I didn't say anything at the time because I'm a gentleman. I'm very happy to report that the circular crappy ribbon tweeter has been replaced with a RAAL tweeter this year. This is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement!! For me personally, the SALKS are still not quite my preferred flavor, but the sound did not drive me out of the room. In fact, listening to how coherent and detailed they are from top to bottom, combined with the absoletly STUNNING cabinet work and craftmanship on them, I'd give them the "FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER BARGAIN OF THE SHOW" award. IMO, Salk speakers really need to break away from the mid-fi AVA gear and start showing with true high end gear to really show what they are capable of. I know Jim and Frank are probably friends, but business is business.
GR Research (again) - OK, the V1's kick the sh!t out of my V2's from a bass standpoint. In fact, I will go further. The V1's with their dual parallel active servo subs kick the sh!t out of EVERY speaker I have ever heard in my entire life. Stunning, awesome, incredible, jaw dropping.... I simply run out of superlatives. Mids on this day are also very, very good. But, the highs are even brighter and more shouty today. It's a single flaw but it really bothers me, particularly since my V2's don't have this balance at all (they are NOT bright). I have a theory about the cause of this, but you have to read my V2 build thread to find out what it is :P Again, Danny is an absolute pleasre to talk to and work with, and the value he offers is off the scale. Nothing speaks louder than someone voting with their wallet, and of all the possible speakers I could invest in, I went with the V2's and I'm still absolutely, completely happy with them.
Von Schweikert Audio - OK, before last year at RMAF I'd never heard or seen a VS speaker in real life. My impressions last year were that they were tiny (hobbit-like) speakers that sounded very bad indeed. I did not post that during my show report, because I do not like to bad mouth manufacturer in general, and particularly not ones that are clearly making an attempt to push the envelope of design for their products. But the fact is, I didn't like the VS room at all. But this year? Complete 180. The VS room was musical, soulful, beautiful and involving. Of course, having 45 watts of Cronzilla SET amp power driving your tower speakers does NOT hurt, IMO :)
B&W 802 Diamond - Better than the stock 802, but the massive sibilance still makes them suck.
Grant Fidelity - Very good sound and amazing case work on the equipment for a very modest price. Black Treasures all around (which are the BEST tubes you can get - too bad I blew a quad of KT88's and I did not get the warrantee, so I'm screwed).
Nola Audio - yes, open baffle can actually suck!!
Avalon and Rowland - Hey, here's a great idea, let's put a bunch of our really expensive sh!t on passive display so that NO ONE can listen to it! Yeah, that's a f'ing brilliant idea!
Win Audio / Rockport - One of the rooms that really was amazing last year and took a huge drop this year. I don't care how big your tube amp is, it should NOT be driving this speaker full range. Oh, and I disavow knowing any of these losers in the photo.
Music and Arts - Amazing room!!!!!!!!!!!!! When audiophiles say "it's all about the music", this room is what they mean!!!!! Too awesome for words, so I won't even try. Buy every recording he makes, you won't be sorry! And his speakers/system was super simple, but incredibly musical and involving. As an alternative to a "lifestyle" system, it simply kick's @ss. Even judged on an absolute scale it is very, very impressive.
Aperion Audio - This room, from a sound quality standpoint, gives the Salk room a serios run for the money with regard to value. At least the tower speakers do (at $1700). The bookshelf speakers are pretty meh, but the towers sound very good for very little outlay. Ultimatley I'd go with the Salks becuase of their stunning cabinetry, but the Aperions sound more mellow and would be a good rec for non-audiophiles that just want something that "sounds good".
Fritz Speakers - Ah, finally a bookshelf speaker that I can write about! I find I simply dislike small speakers becuase they sound small, or they are bright and irritating, or they simply lack a sense of scale that I love. But not here! Fritz is a MASTER designer and his speakers sound incredibly musical and involving. Always a man to take the less beaten path, he ignores fashion and picks components that simply make beautiful music. I love the fact that these speakers never try to be more than a bookshelf speaker, but rather they simply are the best bookshelf speaker that can be.
Big surprise, I disagree with about half of what you have said here. Another difference in tastes scenario. You are a madman for being so detailed though. You and Pez are tireless, I'll give you that and your combined enthusiasm is refreshing. (Internet is out at my house since I left last week.)
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Duke's new speakers might be my pick at just over that price point. Easy to drive. Non-bipole version is less but they weren't at the show. A bigger room would probably do them more justice but very nice overall.
Man, I hated those things. I thought they were very glaring and overall something I would never listen to for more than 2 minutes. Did you make it home okay?
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No, BS you're both wrong. The Berning Amp performed admirably on the Daedalus speakers with the Ulysses. The freakin Atmaspheres were solely to blame and that is the end of it. You can argue that it was a "bad match" but wow, 4 out of 4 rooms I listened to with Atmaspheres were a "bad match"? Damn what are the odds?
And also LOL! Putting OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS into a OUTPUT TRANSFORMER-LESS tube amp? That's like eating a tortilla with a naked burrito. :rotflmao:
Agree. When Woodsyi and I were in the last room that had Daedelus speakers with the First Sound preamp and Berning OTL, it was magic and made those speakers sing. Most musical room of the show for me. Graceful and effortless combination. All the other rooms with D speakers were tipped up in treble and gave me a headache after 5 minutes.
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Dude, seriously, the DESIGNER of the Atma's was in the room working on them. If there was anything needed like the autoformers, don't you think the f'ing designer would have insisted on them?
:o WOW! I've been looking for a pair of Atma-Sphere amps...now you got me nervous. :scratch: Zybar has a pair of MA-1's and loves them. I've never heard someone so negative about them.
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Empirical Audio - The Salk Soundscapes and the BPT power conditioners also shared this room. What can I say, Steve has GREAT taste in music :D Several tracks of Mahler and I'm a very happy boy! Now, understand that I am a dyed in the wool tube guy, and this system is completely solid state. To make matters worse, I absolutely hate metal and ceramic midrange drivers. Of course the Soundscapes use a ceramic mid with an all SS system in front of them. Oh, you can hear me groaning to myself already! How did it sound? Suprisingly good!! While I would prefer a richer tonal balance (being a paper driver and tube guy), I thought the soundstage depth and separation was outstanding, and the overall coherence was also very impressive. I might not be an SS/Ceramic guy, but for those people that are, this is the system for you!!! Details out the wazoo and the speakers did not sound "short", even though they are physically short.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5084495211_1c67190b2e.jpg)
Here's another way of looking at this room's sound - I think what salvaged the sound WAS the speakers given the all SS/digital sources & amplification in the system. Bryan had the room tuned pretty good. It was passable and some tunes were very fun to listen to. Stopped in there a dozen times and saw many folks turn their nose up at the tune selection and turn right around and leave. I've heard these speakers a million times and if we could have gotten the Purity preamp and a tubed dac in there we would have been over the top.
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I spent a decent amount of time in the Rogue room because a friend was interested in the OMA turntable and the mono cart (forget the brand of cart) and was also high on my list with the Revel Salon speakers. I heard a mono version of Ben Webster's Soulville in this room and it was some of the best music I heard. I never heard Rogue gear before RMAF and I was impressed with the sound. A number of rooms were real peaky and this room was not. I was talking to one of the guys manning the room and he said they spent a lot of time setting up the room and it paid off imo.
I just auditioned that Athena pre a few weeks back and it was fantastic.
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The mystery speaker #1 is the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme (T) speaker. It is $26k. It is supposed to be good but for 26 it should be. The sensitivity is 94 db.
How did they sound?
Bob
Glaring to me. That was a 30 second stay!
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:o WOW! I've been looking for a pair of Atma-Sphere amps...now you got me nervous. :scratch: Zybar has a pair of MA-1's and loves them. I've never heard someone so negative about them.
Listen before you buy then. Atma-Sphere are very well build amps but they never impressed me. Maybe I haven't heard them in the right system. :scratch:
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A big thank you to all for the outstanding coverage. I have seen a couple of mentions of Revel and Wilson. How did they stack up to the Salks, Vandys and C4s???
Wilson's are overrated in my book and did nothing special on the two rooms I listened to. But brand recognition means they're good, right? And I was hoping for good things from the few rooms with Revels but left unimpressed with their sound. The Vandersteen 7's were the best of show for me. Sure they had $100k of electronics driving them, but I could imagine me being able to drive them just as well and they seemed to do everything well. Coherent from top to bottom with no missing pieces. Loved them!!
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Dude, seriously, the DESIGNER of the Atma's was in the room working on them. If there was anything needed like the autoformers, don't you think the f'ing designer would have insisted on them?
No, not at all. And it doesn't surprise me in the least. Sometimes designers are just so focused they cannot see the forest for the trees. Case in point, most speaker designers I talk to about diffraction are totally clueless and ignorant about it. When asked how they deal with it, they just draw blank or ignore the question altogether. Then there's the matter of cables and the break in phenomena, which some electronic designers (okay I can only think of one) who will say that stuff doesn't make the least bit of difference. There's such a plethora of ignorance, denial and stupidity in high places it makes the head spin.
If you read the testimonial page at ZERO Impedance, you'll quickly see that the majority of people who buy these are using OTL amplifiers. And there's a good reason for that despite the blissful ignorance of the designer.
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Hearing chairguy get drunk off his ass and go on and on about how spectacular the mushrooms are was immensely enjoyable. And hearing woodsyi chew out both the manager and the wine guy to their face was absolutely priceless!!!
I TOTALLY missed that as I was, apparently, drunk off my ass :o
For the most part, I agree with your lengthy summary of things (keeping in mind I only spent half the time at the show you have and it was my first)
Nola - Yup, was running out of there. My buddy Jon made me stay because he thought it impolite to leave immediately after filling out their raffle/free drawing. I gotta' believe it was room or equipment related issues that made a speaker with such pedigree and accolades sound like hell; but it was a place I wanted to bolt from in the first three seconds there.
FritzSpeakers - Good, just damn good. Maybe that Modwright modded OPPO is wonderful, but it would never be able to make up for lousy speakers and, bro, I thought the room sounded great. Fritz is no fan of metal drivers and I keep finding much the same in my audio travels.
JBL Horn - Another huge speaker in a small room - oh, no, it's gonna' suuuuuuuck...and, it DIDN'T (at all). Sounded very fine in there....damned if I know how those alchemists did it :scratch:
Linkwitz - I really wanted to like this room too (Dr. Linkwitz lives up the road from me and has offered to do a demo for me in the past at his place...I've not taken him up on it). Unfortunately, there was some 127 year old reviewer requesting so-so sounding CD's...so we all had to be too completely quiet while said centenarian listened to his mp3-like drivel. So, what I heard sucked...but it may have been the particular circumstance rather than the product itself.
High Emotion Audio - I'm a big Lineaum fan...I rarely hear treble as faithfully naturally rendered as the Linaeum tweeters can (I own modded Linaeum Towers....and were it not for their thin, light and poorly braced and damped cabinetry, would be the giant killer of giant killers. As it stands they are merely competent budget speaker with an amazing tweeter). The Pyra Bella had two (I think, proprietery) figure-8 shaped tweeters that the designer indicated operated more alike than different from the Linaeums. Wide open sounding at the top and well integrated woofer/midwoofer cones. Both my buddy Jon and I were impressed with the sound. It was $10K for the stereo pair we were listening to...so, no giveaway deals here, but there were alot of pricier speakers at this show that sounded poor, too.
John
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Here's a Harry Pearson story for you: I was first to board the Supershuttle at 8 Am Sunday morning and grabbed the shotgun location for the comfort(legroom). The driver said he was full up with 10 passengers so that meant we had no stops on the way to the airport. Folks start showing up for the bus and just about everybody is on board when Harry comes out with an entourage and takes one look at the shuttle and says, "Is THAT what you ordered for me?" in disgust. A fellow in the group says yes that he prepaid for this. Harry looks around and sees an empty bus in front of us from a competing company and asks how much to ride. He hears it is only about $20 and decides to take the more empty shuttle so he doesn't have to squeeze in with the common people. I'm wondering how many folks actually got on that bus and how many stops the driver made to fill it up as they want to pack them full for maximizing revenues. Maybe he was driving all around Denver for an hour.
I'd heard stories about this guy and this firsthand experience validated some of those traits he has been known for. Interesting.
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I spent more time listening to the Omens as I thought I was buying them and at one point, I was going to be taking home the black pair in the Peachtree room. I didn't notice the soundstage issue described by themadmilkman. This is not a criticism of what he heard as we all perceive things different. I have had speakers in the past that have had this issue and it would make me nuts, so I did pay attention to it while I was listening. I also read on the Zu site that they can be adjusted to lean back to raise the sound stage so it would seem that this was a consideration when designing them and another reason not to dismiss what themadmilkman heard.
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Great show reports! One of these days I need to attend. Any additional comments on the larger Bamberg Audio speakers and the Modwright amp? In the past I've heard good things about the quality of the sound and negatives about the music selection. Any changes this time around? Also, these speakers had amazing bass in a large room, what was it like in a small hotel suite?
Thanks! I hope more people took pictures, especially of the strange exotic looking speakers.
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Yes, PEZ's flickr account is crap, sorry about that! I'll try to get him to rectify it tomorrow. For myself, it is time to sleep and I'll continue tomorrrow.
I am, for once, in total agreement with Tyson. The new flickr is terrible. They decided that people wanted them to make it harder for people to pull the photos from their site. I guess people were getting pissed that strangers were stealing pictures of their dog. I am working now to get these photos posted.
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Quoted from Tyson's post
OK, Saturday is a game changer for me in the high end audio realm. We'll start with the normal stuff and get to the extraordinary at the end. Actually, as I think about Saturday, HOLY CRAP what a huge day it was. I can't believe the number of good to great rooms we heard. Like I said earlier, RMAF this year ROCKED!!! I'll try to hit the highlights here.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5092223872_50a1c972ca_b.jpg)
GR Research - Went back to see how things had changed since Friday. HOLY CRAP the bass on the V1's was out of this world. By far this was the best bass of any room of the entire show. In fact, it's the best bass production of anything I've heard anywhere in my entire life!! The mids were also excellent. But the tweeters were too hot for my tastes, and I thought the room was a bit too bright overall. I think there is an easy fix for this (reticulated foam in the tweeter horn throat), but I don't think Danny had a chance to try it at the show.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5091635015_e16732532e_b.jpg)
Fritz Speakers - The thing I love about this room (besides the super-cool proprietor), is that they don't try to be something they are not. Very good sound, even, balanced, and incredibly musical. If someone asked me to recommend a bookshelf speaker that was great quality, this would be it.
Marantz Room - Marantz, meh.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/5092234242_1649bb1471_b.jpg)
Linkwitz Orion - One of the great white hopes. Based on the buzz (and my own logical reasoning), I expected to love this room. I do have to say that meeting Linkwitz was a true honor. But if I am honest I must note that I do not like the metal midrange SEAS driver. The bass was too strong. However, them imaging was incredible, as only open baffle speakers can do. Overall it's really close to the best ever sound, but the signifigant gaps really need to be addressed before that can happen.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5091600881_ddd55dda3b_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5092199808_1f2c1d2c41_b.jpg)
Jones Amps - A room with speakers that have metal drivers? And SS amplification? Oh no, I am covering my ears already! But, surprisingly they sounded very, very mellow and quite involving/relaxed. Clearly they truncated dynamics, but I am perfeclty OK with that trade off for the smooth sound they produced.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5092200102_20a96d670e_b.jpg)
YG Acoustics - Sounded terrible last year, and sounded "meh" this year. From bad to mediocre is still an improvement.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5092202700_fdd075cc63_b.jpg)
AudioKenesis - Finally! A room to write home about. Meeting Duke was a pleasure, and his speakers were truly musical. Very good dynamics and tonality and great imaging. Loved, LOVED his demo/explanation of multiple ports on his speakers and their "high end" plugs ;)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5091605051_040c41cf67_b.jpg)
JBL Horn - I forget the name of the model, but I do know that they are FAR better than the much more expensive models we will hear on Sunday.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092203498_8dacfd3e5d_b.jpg)
Tri-Audio/Acoustic Zen - My vote for best sound at show, bar none. Imaging to die for, and gets to the soul and heart of the music more effortlessly thann anything else I've heard over the last three days. $6k for a friggin 845 SET with 20 watts on tap? You gotta be kidding me!!!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092203498_8dacfd3e5d_b.jpg)
Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):
German Physics - The little brother of the last room. I actually think I liked these better than the bigger GP's. Better mid bass and the same awesome highs and imaging.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5091621427_2436e22e10_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5091622919_cfc2fd3548_b.jpg)
Magico Room - Mediocrite personified.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/5092221982_92bea5927f_b.jpg)
Dynaudio C4 - My vote for biggest improvement year over year. Last year the Dynaudio room was terrible. It was the Consequence Ultimate model and it was absolute sh!t. I mean, WTF were they thinking, this is a seriously flawed and stupid concept. But, this year they bring out the Confidence C4 which is a GREAT speaker. And they hook it up with a tube amp!!! Couple that with dual dac's (YES, DUAL DAC's, you heard that right) from Wadia over a very good music server and you have great, great sound. My vote for 2nd best overall sound at show (caveat - the music sever was awesome but the CD transport was mediocre at best).
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5091624125_6cd7f4c886_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5092223172_35465e6691_b.jpg)
Salk Speakers - OK, truth time. Last year I simply hated the Salk room - the combo of bright ribbon tweeter and metal midrange simply drove me out of the room. I didn't say anything at the time because I'm a gentleman. I'm very happy to report that the circular crappy ribbon tweeter has been replaced with a RAAL tweeter this year. This is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement!! For me personally, the SALKS are still not quite my preferred flavor, but the sound did not drive me out of the room. In fact, listening to how coherent and detailed they are from top to bottom, combined with the absoletly STUNNING cabinet work and craftmanship on them, I'd give them the "FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER BARGAIN OF THE SHOW" award. IMO, Salk speakers really need to break away from the mid-fi AVA gear and start showing with true high end gear to really show what they are capable of. I know Jim and Frank are probably friends, but business is business.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5091626023_580641e073_b.jpg)
GR Research (again) - OK, the V1's kick the sh!t out of my V2's from a bass standpoint. In fact, I will go further. The V1's with their dual parallel active servo subs kick the sh!t out of EVERY speaker I have ever heard in my entire life. Stunning, awesome, incredible, jaw dropping.... I simply run out of superlatives. Mids on this day are also very, very good. But, the highs are even brighter and more shouty today. It's a single flaw but it really bothers me, particularly since my V2's don't have this balance at all (they are NOT bright). I have a theory about the cause of this, but you have to read my V2 build thread to find out what it is :P Again, Danny is an absolute pleasre to talk to and work with, and the value he offers is off the scale. Nothing speaks louder than someone voting with their wallet, and of all the possible speakers I could invest in, I went with the V2's and I'm still absolutely, completely happy with them.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5091626655_a1a92ae158_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5092225360_a8c7c9f22c_b.jpg)
Von Schweikert Audio - OK, before last year at RMAF I'd never heard or seen a VS speaker in real life. My impressions last year were that they were tiny (hobbit-like) speakers that sounded very bad indeed. I did not post that during my show report, because I do not like to bad mouth manufacturer in general, and particularly not ones that are clearly making an attempt to push the envelope of design for their products. But the fact is, I didn't like the VS room at all. But this year? Complete 180. The VS room was musical, soulful, beautiful and involving. Of course, having 45 watts of Cronzilla SET amp power driving your tower speakers does NOT hurt, IMO :)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5091627283_3916a6da84_b.jpg)
B&W 802 Diamond - Better than the stock 802, but the massive sibilance still makes them suck.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5092226514_095cc077c7_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092227158_289a26a9f7_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5092227546_fb0ccd6137_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5092227888_cf6182f04a_b.jpg)
Grant Fidelity - Very good sound and amazing case work on the equipment for a very modest price. Black Treasures all around (which are the BEST tubes you can get - too bad I blew a quad of KT88's and I did not get the warrantee, so I'm screwed).
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5091630263_816de9c08f_b.jpg)
Nola Audio - yes, open baffle can actually suck!!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5091630607_470cb74da5_b.jpg)
Avalon and Rowland - Hey, here's a great idea, let's put a bunch of our really expensive sh!t on passive display so that NO ONE can listen to it! Yeah, that's a f'ing brilliant idea!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5092230380_33882db78b_b.jpg)
Win Audio / Rockport - One of the rooms that really was amazing last year and took a huge drop this year. I don't care how big your tube amp is, it should NOT be driving this speaker full range. Oh, and I disavow knowing any of these losers in the photo.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4106/5091633335_ec9f5112b6_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5091633761_ff5f42e06b_b.jpg)
Music and Arts - Amazing room!!!!!!!!!!!!! When audiophiles say "it's all about the music", this room is what they mean!!!!! Too awesome for words, so I won't even try. Buy every recording he makes, you won't be sorry! And his speakers/system was super simple, but incredibly musical and involving. As an alternative to a "lifestyle" system, it simply kick's @ss. Even judged on an absolute scale it is very, very impressive.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5091634067_b0c47acebf_b.jpg)
Aperion Audio - This room, from a sound quality standpoint, gives the Salk room a serios run for the money with regard to value. At least the tower speakers do (at $1700). The bookshelf speakers are pretty meh, but the towers sound very good for very little outlay. Ultimatley I'd go with the Salks becuase of their stunning cabinetry, but the Aperions sound more mellow and would be a good rec for non-audiophiles that just want something that "sounds good".
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5091635015_e16732532e_b.jpg)
Fritz Speakers - Ah, finally a bookshelf speaker that I can write about! I find I simply dislike small speakers becuase they sound small, or they are bright and irritating, or they simply lack a sense of scale that I love. But not here! Fritz is a MASTER designer and his speakers sound incredibly musical and involving. Always a man to take the less beaten path, he ignores fashion and picks components that simply make beautiful music. I love the fact that these speakers never try to be more than a bookshelf speaker, but rather they simply are the best bookshelf speaker that can be.
[/quote]
I (Pez) will be adding my comments and more pics later!!!! Stay tuned... or whatever.
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I TOTALLY missed that as I was, apparently, drunk off my ass :o
John
You weren't. We were all feeling good and buzzed. And I did not dress down the sommelier or the manager. All I said was that the recommended first bottle (a second label from Vieux Telegraph) was too pale and tasted more Cotes du Rhonish than CDP which was not how the sommelier described it. Second bottle was better and it was the mutant Sangiovese from Montalcino ('04 Banfi) that got you to gush over the mushrooms and the wine. They were good. You weren't the only one gushing over food and wine. We all did as the food really was good.
Since Tyson and Pez are picking on us, let me tell a funny story about Jason as you might not remember. When his steak came out, he took one bite and did a perfect imitation of Terry Bradshaw. You know the one where Terry takes one look at a Sushi and says, "Excuse me. This is not cooked?" This was after Jason ordered his steak, "rare." He called the waiter back and requested to have the steak cooked a little more. The chef personally brought out the sizzling "cooked" steak and waited until Jason took a bite and was satisfied before going back to the kitchen. And Jason gushed over the truffle Mac and cheese more than you did with the "shrooms.":lol:
I am uploading pictures and getting all the facts straight before posting my observations. I didn't get back home until 2AM this morning. Sunday sounded better in most rooms than Saturday.
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Sunday sounded better in most rooms than Saturday.
Yes and everyone went home Saturday which is tragic for them. Sunday things were much more dialed in and way more refined.
As far as my "rare" steak encounter like I said at Shennehans, half the steakhouses in colorado bring their "rare" steak out medium rare, which is what I wanted. I just assumed they were following the trend, but apparently at Shennehans rare means still kicking and chewing cud.
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Yes and everyone went home Saturday which is tragic for them. Sunday things were much more dialed in and way more refined.
As far as my "rare" steak encounter like I said at Shennehans, half the steakhouses in colorado bring their "rare" steak out medium rare, which is what I wanted. I just assumed they were following the trend, but apparently at Shennehans rare means still kicking and chewing cud.
If you want rare you ask for black and blue. If you want medium rare you ask for light pink....
Take it from the fat guy. :duh:
:D
Raw — Uncooked. Used in dishes like steak tartare, Carpaccio, gored gored, tiger meat and kitfo.
Seared, Blue rare or very rare — Cooked very quickly; the outside is seared, but the inside is usually cool and barely cooked. The steak will be red on the inside and barely warmed. Sometimes asked for as "blood rare" or "bloody as hell". In the United States, this is also sometimes referred to as 'Black and Blue' or 'Pittsburgh Rare'. It is common for chefs to place the steak in an oven to warm the inside of the steak. This method generally means 'blue' steaks take longer to cook than any other degrees.
Rare — (52 °C [125 °F] core temperature) The outside is gray-brown, and the middle of the steak is red and slightly warm.
Medium rare — (55 °C [130 °F] core temperature) The steak will have a fully red, warm center. This is the standard degree of cooking at most steakhouses, unless specified otherwise.
Medium — (60 °C [140 °F] core temperature) The middle of the steak is hot and red with pink surrounding the center. The outside is gray-brown.
Medium well done — (65 °C [150 °F] core temperature) The meat is light pink surrounding the center.
Well done — (71 °C [160 °F] and above core temperature) The meat is gray-brown throughout and slightly charred.
Overcook — (much more than 71 °C [160 °F] core temperature) The meat is dark throughout and slightly bitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steak
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Man, I hated those things. I thought they were very glaring and overall something I would never listen to for more than 2 minutes. Did you make it home okay?
Yep, back in the saddle on conf calls all day.
Fascinating to note all my gear is crap :wink: Oh, but wait, everyone was drunk and was partaking of funky mushrooms. Maybe that would help me enjoy my system more :lol: You guys are killin' me with some of these comments but I appreciate a little honesty (finally).
More random thoughts as they come to me -
AC stuff:
I mostly agree with GR V1 comments. Not good Friday (which they knew). Saturday was better, bass was great, but I still didn't like the mid-top end much more. They couldn't play my demo material so I couldn't get much of a feel for them which I really wanted to do. Yellow trim cabs were way cool and beautifully built.
Klaus and Alex set up along the long wall this year to optimize imaging and it worked. Candela, mono Khartago's, and Lorelei's. As someone said, they are consistently good every year and it was no different this year. $5k or so with cabling, still a terrific value.
The Empirical Audio/Parasound JC1/Salk SoundScape setup just didn't work for me in 3 tries there. I wanted to like it as I'm thinking of upgrading my front end, but it just wasn't to be. My plain old redbook seemed ok. Maybe the source material and extreme resolving power working to the bad, I dunno :scratch:
I've never listened at great length to VSA speakers. I briefly heard the VR33's and thought they were ok, but the VR35's in the other room with the coolest KR tube amp really sounded great. Nice imaging, smooth mid, fairly even bass for a hotel room.
Fritzspeakers had clean punchy bass and were just fun to listen to. A little round-over on the edges might make them even better, but I liked them quite a lot. $1795 - 'nuff said.
More non-AC stuff:
I really liked the small standmount Joseph Pulsars set up on the long wall with Ayre gear. Jeff played a track with someone whistling in the middle and I looked over to see if it was him doing it. Nice. It was set up as almost a compact "little system" so I was thinking great value, not a lot of moving parts. Then I found out the speakers were $7k plus the cost of the Ayre gear so it dampened my enthusiasm a bit. Actually, they are the top half of the flagship Pearls, which I'd now love to hear again in latest trim. It would also be fun to stack the GR N2x tricked out version I heard recently up against the Pulsars.
It was nice meeting Siegfried Linkwitz, chatting for awhile and hearing the Orions in latest version (I've heard earlier ones and also own the plans/kit). Other comments were spot on -at modest levels, nice diffuse OB image, bass was bumpy in that room and made me appreciate what I have even more. Lovely portrayal on the classical music that was playing.
Emerald Physics CS2.3's sounded good in the Wyred room, a definite improvement on the CS2's I enjoyed for a long time. Being in the other Spatial/CS2.3 room next door with Walter demo'ing reminded me of when our fraternity bought new Klipschorns for the party room :o It almost hurt. Unfortunately, he didn't want to stop demo's long enough to rip/copy my demo cut, so I finally left without any familiar reference. I heard them later at more reasonable volume and they sounded very refined. The multichannel DAC instead of DCX likely had a lot to do with it. Clayton also corrected me in my thinking they use the P-Audio's and indeed they do NOT (custom driver from another manufacturer). $20k (I think he said) for the whole tri'amped system turn key with CS2.3's, Orpheus dac, Modwright KWA100, 2 WFS stereo amps, room tuning, seems like a pretty good deal to me.
I'd never heard any Silverline before and thought those Sonatina MK IV's really kicked. Very dynamic. Astounding bass for a small floor stander. Just looking at them, they seemed very conventional, but who knew? Highly recommended.
Enough for now. Great show, better than in the past for sure. Fun people to be with. Back to sea level now.
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Rare — (52 °C [125 °F] core temperature) The outside is gray-brown, and the middle of the steak is red and slightly warm.
Medium rare — (55 °C [130 °F] core temperature) The steak will have a fully red, warm center. This is the standard degree of cooking at most steakhouses, unless specified otherwise.
Precisely! However the way they served it up to me was cool in the center, definately more seared than cooked. I was shocked. I usually order rare and get a slightly warm middle, this one wasn't even luke warm. When they recooked it was perfection just as you described medium rare.
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I love these reviews. Some of them are like watching "An extemely bias news program". So bias it hurts. Very nice pics though.
(This post has been edited due to stupidity)
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OTLs will not perform well with a 6 ohm load.
My personal experience: Amp was the Atma-Sphere 30W stereo supplied by Duke LeJeune, stand mounted monitor is reflex-loaded w/ one 160mm composite cone and one 28mm soft dome, 8-Ohm nominal/5.2 Ohm minimum/20-Ohm maximum with one peak above the bass range at 2.2 kHz.
As described above the sound was just about perfect with one fatal flaw, being too much output at the 2.2 k impedance peak (exactly as expected, the amp output peaked with the impedance...the higher the impedance the greater an OTL's output).
Duke inserted a very simple outboard parallel XO/EQ device that flattened the 2.2 kHz peak, and it was my favorite amp/speaker matchup ever.
Conclusion: obviously too low an impedance won't work with OTL, but there's more to a good match than avoiding low impedance. Peaks, especially above the bass range, cause audible F.R. anomalies. If the speaker is balanced properly and smoothly to start with, and if it has impedance peaks above the bass range, you're almost certainly to have audible problems with OTL.
IIRC Duke's entire line of speakers are designed with flat impedance, because he loves the OTL sound and prices. I'm pretty sure that any designer not targeting OTL sources will ignore such peaks, because only OTL suffers from this anomaly. It costs money, time, labor, and parts to flatten peaks above the bass range.
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he loves the OTL sound and prices.
As a retailer, I'm sure he does. :rotflmao:
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Yes and everyone went home Saturday which is tragic for them. Sunday things were much more dialed in and way more refined.
As far as my "rare" steak encounter like I said at Shennehans, half the steakhouses in colorado bring their "rare" steak out medium rare, which is what I wanted. I just assumed they were following the trend, but apparently at Shennehans rare means still kicking and chewing cud.
"Hippoburger" in San Francisco on Van Ness, cross street around Green, SW corner (long since closed, last I remember a GAP stood there) used to offer "Cannibal Burger" on the menu. Raw. Completely, utterly...raw. I ate them several times. Lots of onions. Awesome.
Hey, if you ever got stuck in a survival situation, you'd be right at home. I read the book "Alive" with great wonder and curiosity, much better than the movie, and much more graphic. When the medical students and soccer players were rescued much later, they tried to justify their cannibalism by comparing it to the so-called "Holy Eucarist" (sp?), because it saved their lives, but the local constabulary (i.e. Bishop) put a quick end to that comparison!
The really funny kicker was all the medical people standing by when they were rescued, with their prescriptions of giving them only liquid food for several days because they of course thought they had eaten nothing for weeks, but they came down off the mountain crying for hamburgers...Hippoburger anyone?
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I love these reviews. Some of them are like watching Fox News. So bias it hurts. Nice pics though.
Watch it! Fox news is fair and balanced.
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And also LOL! Putting OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS into a OUTPUT TRANSFORMER-LESS tube amp? That's like eating a tortilla with a naked burrito. :rotflmao:
Yes. How's this for an analogy: Like designing a race car, then adding a shaft terminated with a "screw" and calling it a boat.
TYSON, regarding your references for best bass in the whole wide world: Just curious if you've ever heard, properly setup, something with humongous floor to ceiling stereo bass towers, with something like six-12" active drivers per side, in separate free-standing enclosures from the mid-treble range? Preferably in a large room? Just trying to get a handle on your prior references for best bass relative to your show comments.
Immense kudos to all show goers for your tireless efforts!
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Watch it! Fox news is fair and balanced.
+1
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Overall I enjoyed the show but need to stay all 3 days next time. Too much good stuff to see this year. The added content of floors 8 and 9 made it damn near impossible to get through everything in 1.5 days.
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Almost forgot - ask Ted about the bathroom visit at the restaurant. :thumb:
...and the number shall be three....
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Anyone, what are the loudspeakers and what is driving them in the Music and Arts room?
Thanks!
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Thank you to everyone who posted show comments and pictures.
Great job. Thank you for the hard work. I am enjoying RMAF vicariously.
Tyson/Pez, I think there is a picture missing here:
"Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):"
Two pictures of the Acoustic Zen/Triode Corporation room were posted instead of a pic (or name) of the offending room. I am sure you were not referring to the Acoustic Zen room since your other comments on it were very positive.
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I have posted comments/impressions to the pictures I posted Sunday morning http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86946.msg850054#msg850054
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I love these reviews. Some of them are like watching Fox News. So bias it hurts. Nice pics though.
Oh, And what un-biased News do you watch? NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN or MSNBC?? Please, just keep the topic on AUDIO!!!
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I will post photos and comments of rooms I visited today (Saturday) sometime tomorrow.
Paul Mah
I found all my notes and have added comments to my photos on page 4 in bold.
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Its a good thing i didnt go, everybody would've got sick. Right in the middle of bad case of bronchitis. Arithomycin ftw..... It wouldve been like, hey can you play this cd....hack cough all over the cd and gear..... :icon_lol:
Good thing i didnt get air tickets i wouldve gone for sure......
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I love these reviews. Some of them are like watching "An extemely bias news program". So bias it hurts. Very nice pics though.
:roll:
I need to make it to this show sometime. I think it would be overload though. Sort of like going to a wine tasting with 100 wines. After 20 I can't remember the first so good.
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I love these reviews. Some of them are like watching Fox News. So bias it hurts. Nice pics though.
Gosh, Kris, not sure why we should bother saying anything then, if you just like to look at the pictures :roll: We all have biases. Such is life.
After some prodding, I reluctantly shared a few thoughts, some VERY softened, and as a reward my inbox is stuffed with interesting love notes now, some from people I've never heard of. I actually had to look them up. Thanks all for that. Great entertainment for the next couple days. I feel smaller already for your wisdom and "compliments", which is a good thing :thumb:
As usual, the best thing is to go listen for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Better yet, go to the show next year. It's really a lot of fun and meeting people as friends out from behind the barrier of the keyboard is terrific. Fascinating and unique people here.
I also suspect most have no idea how hard these vendors work at these shows to please all of us clowns. They are soooo intense. Amazing stuff, big frustration at times, mostly mixed results under difficult conditions. With a couple exceptions for FOTM situations, probably not too many direct sales either. But they remain passionate. Just watch Eric Hider in action some time - wow.
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Another big thanks to all those who attended and put up photos and comments. Wanted to go this year but surgery and the ensuing bills kept me away. Next year...
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Another big thanks to all those who attended and put up photos and comments. Next year...
+1
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+1
+2 for also sharing your honest feedback based on your personal preferences ... it is really refreshing ...
Super thanks all!
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Clearly, Big Red Machine needs to get reconstructive surgery done to his ears, so that they are shaped exactly like mine. That way he can start to "hear right" :P
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Sorry for the picture double post, but this seems like the most reasonable way to do this. This years show was absolutely the best RMAF I have ever had the great fortune to attend. I think every year all the ACers get closer and closer, not to mention meeting people for the first time ever and having an instant repoire is simply great. And yes this years 'sound' was vastily superior to any other year.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5092223872_50a1c972ca_b.jpg)
GR Research -GR Research room was a lot of fun. Like Tyson said Danny is a great and accessible guy. The equipment looked great and sound great. I think for the most part I'll let what Tyson posted stand with one exception. While it was a little bright I usually forgive this at a show.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5091635015_e16732532e_b.jpg)
Fritz Speakers - Let me tell you a little about the kinda guy Fritz is. When I went by his room I listened to a few of my own cuts. I left the room forgetting one of my newly purchased discs. Not only did Fritz let other ACer's know to let me know he had it, he told the folks at the check in desk as well. I am infinitely thankful that he is such a great guy! If that weren't enough Fritz does among the best woodwork in the show on speakers with very expensive drivers and I'm sure crossover components. For the price he's charging I'm pretty sure he's losing his shirt. If you don't have Fritz get em!
Marantz Room - Marantz, meh. (no edit necessary here)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/5092234242_1649bb1471_b.jpg)
Linkwitz Orion - Not anything to write home about IMO. They are very nice looking indeed, but I didn't have any connection to the "house sound" they provided. Either it was the blurry haze in the crossover region or the smeary imaging/soundstaging either way not something that really grabbed my attention.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5091600881_ddd55dda3b_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5092199808_1f2c1d2c41_b.jpg)
Jones Amps - Surpise!!! All metal, metal, metal speakers do not suck! Not to mention the Jones amps are sci fi sexy.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5092200102_20a96d670e_b.jpg)
YG Acoustics - I don't think YG sounded terrible last year. I think they sounded pretty good on my master of chinese percussion CD. Probably amoung the best dynamically. This year we only made it to the room with the Veloce equipment. I think they were slightly better sounding though obviously not as dynamic as the Anats. Overall though I didn't care for the sound.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5092202700_fdd075cc63_b.jpg)
AudioKenesis - Ok, when I said previously that ALL the Atmasphere rooms where bad, I completely forgot this room. Duke did a great job getting things to sound really really great. You gotta love the rooms that don't have $10,000 stands, room treatment and other tweaks yet still manage to pull off a great performance.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5091605051_040c41cf67_b.jpg)
JBL Horn - I don't even remember hearing these.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092203498_8dacfd3e5d_b.jpg)
Tri-Audio/Acoustic Zen - I agree with Tyson. Probably my best in show, with one glaring exception that I will write about later. A Japanese made 845 integrated amp for $6000? WTF? That's incredible!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5091605763_41bc2a5fd9_b.jpg)
will continue to add more later on.
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Yes. How's this for an analogy: Like designing a race car, then adding a shaft terminated with a "screw" and calling it a boat.
TYSON, regarding your references for best bass in the whole wide world: Just curious if you've ever heard, properly setup, something with humongous floor to ceiling stereo bass towers, with something like six-12" active drivers per side, in separate free-standing enclosures from the mid-treble range? Preferably in a large room? Just trying to get a handle on your prior references for best bass relative to your show comments.
Immense kudos to all show goers for your tireless efforts!
Yes, I heard something exactly like that last year at RMAF in the Empirical Audio room. Plus, I also have been over to ThomasW's house several times (from HTGuide forum and the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled), so I've been exposed to some pretty good bass systems (to name just a couple).
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That Tri-Audio amp is pure sexy, and it sounded good too. Of course, that could have been the speakers. :D I'd have to say the Acoustic Zen/Tri-Audio room was my 3rd or 4th favorite. What's the retail price on those speaks?
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That Tri-Audio amp is pure sexy, and it sounded good too. Of course, that could have been the speakers. :D I'd have to say the Acoustic Zen/Tri-Audio room was my 3rd or 4th favorite. What's the retail price on those speaks?
Which model? No way I'm looking back for the image! http://www.acousticzen.com/speakers.html (http://www.acousticzen.com/speakers.html) I really liked talking with the US distributor, great guy. I'll get the price fer ya. They are very reasonable for the product delivered, overall quality, etc. IIRC the stand mount is only about $3k/pr, maybe 3500.
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Here's another way of looking at this room's sound - I think what salvaged the sound WAS the speakers given the all SS/digital sources & amplification in the system. Bryan had the room tuned pretty good. It was passable and some tunes were very fun to listen to. Stopped in there a dozen times and saw many folks turn their nose up at the tune selection and turn right around and leave. I've heard these speakers a million times and if we could have gotten the Purity preamp and a tubed dac in there we would have been over the top.
Unfortunately, the speakers were not broken-in before the show, so we had that to deal with. There was a LOT that was brand new in these speakers and the crossovers, so have you actually heard these speakers before?
We also used some Amarra EQ to deal with some room issues. It was too bright on Friday for my taste, a bit better on Saturday and cooking on Sunday. It seems like it always happens this way when several vendors share a room. All-in-all by Sunday it was sounding very live IMO. Certainly best sound of any show I have done. Capable of sounding like a large concert hall
Its a matter of taste. Some dont want the dynamic live sound. Others do. And BTW, the clarity, dynamics and low-noise was due to the electronics. I use the same electronics at home and it sounds even better with my various speakers. The JC-1 monoblocks are modded, not stock. Most showgoers attribute the sound totally to the speakers, but in fact it is much more a function of the source quality and entire system. The great dispersion and bass was a function of the speakers however. These really didnt have any sweetspot effect and standing SQ was same as sitting. Remarkable for this kind of speaker IMO.
My roommates wanted the sound really loud also, so that was hard to mediate. I think some just liked it that way....
It's too bad that we didnt have tracks that satisfied everyones tastes. When someone requests R&R, the others in the room usually clear-out. Same thing can happen with classical. The best thing is to request a music genre when you enter the room. We had a large collection of good tracks, from 44.1 to 192.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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Okay, after getting home really late because my flight was delayed, I'm sufficiently conscious now to add photos and comments from some rooms I visited on Saturday. Like on Friday's coverage, same :thumb: and :thumb: :thumb: rating for rooms I enjoyed most.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37298)
Vincent electronics feeding Wharfedale speakers. Whafedale is importing speakers again to the U.S.
Decent sound.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37299)
Sjofn HiFi featuring "The Clue," a small monitor speaker which the importer claims the bass can go down to 28 hz on a 3 3/4" mid/bass driver. He demonstrated bass with some bass kick drums cd, which sounded clean and articulate. Overall, "The Clue" produced clean sound, with decent imaging. Show special price: $999 pr. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37300)
JIB cables imported from Germany. This is their top of the line speaker cable. OK sound, but expensive.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37301)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37302)
Simon Yorke TT S9 Flamenco turntable, CAT signature preamp and amp, Ayre QB9 dac, and Lansche #3 speakers. The sound was organic and smooth, but with nice detail, making it a nice musical experience. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37303)
This is the new Von Schweikert VR 33 speaker. The brouchure states: "For the first time ever, own a $15,000 speaker for only $3,750." It's a bold statement, but you listen and be the judge. To my ears, the system produced a nice tonal balance, and was very listenable. :thumb: The other Von Schweirkert room with the VR 35 speaker also sounded very nice.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37304)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37305)
Roger Sanders electronics and electrostatic speaker. This system produced a broad soundstage, with fast transients and punchy bass. Roger set up his speakers diagonally in the room because he found the soundstaging work best that way. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37306)
YG Acoustic speakers. If you like a nice Hifi sound, then you'll like these.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37307)
Bryston electronics and PMC speakers - Nice balanced sound with good but not etched detail. The PMC speaker is the IB2. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37308)
Thor Audio electronics and CD Duevel 'Bella Luna Diamante' omni-directional speakers. The speakers are imported from Germany. This system's sound grabs your attention. If you want a more laid back presentation, get something else. Sound was extremely clean but not harsh, and lightning fast. The soundstage presentation was large and a bit forward, while image specificity was a little vague, which is fairly common with omni-directional speakers. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37309)
Onedof turntable. This is a beautifully made TT, and the sound was quite nice.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37310)
deHavilland electronics and Sonist speakers. This was one of my favorite rooms last year, and it is again this year. Excellent sonics, regardless of price! :thumb: :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37311)
Modwright electronics and Daedulus speakers. Another fine sounding room. Tonality was superbly balanced, and resolution was good but not etched. In the photo, Dan Wright is telling me about the mods made to the OppO BDP-83 DVD player. Both the OppO and a Sony cd player uses 2 6SN7 tubes as part of the mods. :thumb: :thumb:
Sunday's coverage in a little while.
Paul Mah
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Paul - man you are a bonafide review and reporter :thumb:
Great job!
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The Oppo in Dan's room and a few others is the modded Oppo 83 SE Blu Ray/Universal player. After hearing it in several rooms, I told Dan to put me on the list. This will be my next purchase to replace my Denon 3910 so I can watch & listen to Blu Ray concert videos and listen to the occasional CD that gets played in my system. Dan's mods to the analog output of this unit produced a very, very nice sound (for digital :wink:)
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Paul - man you are a bonafide review and reporter :thumb:
Great job!
Thanks Sunil. I appreciate the sentiment.
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The Oppo in Dan's room and a few others is the modded Oppo 83 SE Blu Ray/Universal player. After hearing it in several rooms, I told Dan to put me on the list. This will be my next purchase to replace my Denon 3910 so I can watch & listen to Blu Ray concert videos and listen to the occasional CD that gets played in my system. Dan's mods to the analog output of this unit produced a very, very nice sound (for digital :wink:)
Hi Laura - Great to meet you finally and talk for a spell. I'm thinking of asking Dan for a loaner to demo at a few NY audio club meetings. I thought the modded OppO produced a warmer sound than his modded Sony. I was impressed with the modded OppO in his room and in Fritzspeakers' room.
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Hi folks, this is some nice show coverage. --saw a question posted on the price for the Acoustic Zen Crescendo speakers. Currently at $14,000 msrp. Glad you enjoyed them :), we have them set up here for audition as well. --Neil
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Sorry to say but OPPO is discontinuing the 83 and 83SE. A new model will be released but without a true stereo output. Dan will have to work his magic again.
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Clearly, Big Red Machine needs to get reconstructive surgery done to his ears, so that they are shaped exactly like mine. That way he can start to "hear right" :P
And then I can fly :angel:
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Hi Laura - Great to meet you finally and talk for a spell. I'm thinking of asking Dan for a loaner to demo at a few NY audio club meetings. I thought the modded OppO produced a warmer sound than his modded Sony. I was impressed with the modded OppO in his room and in Fritzspeakers' room.
Same here Paul. I would have liked to have more time to chat. I told Peggy I would try to coordinate one of my DC trips with a Rave. I agree with your assessment of the modded Oppo in both of those rooms.
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Surprisingly, I haven't seen much coverage on music servers at RMAF, yet the Discless Circle is a popular circle here.
Did any of you visit rooms with server-based music up and running? I would love to read your comments.
Thanks.
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Surprisingly, I haven't seen much coverage on music servers at RMAF, yet the Discless Circle is a popular circle here.
Did any of you visit rooms with server-based music up and running? I would love to read your comments.
Thanks.
I also would like to read comments about server-based music and more about DACs in use at the show.
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Any opinions on the LessLoss setup (room 437) with Kasier speakers?
Thanks,
AP
Yes, full balanced sound, with just the right amount of resolution to create a musical experience rather than a Hifi experience.
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Thanks to everyone who took time out of their respective 'trips' to observe and report back to the lot of us.
Knowing what a busy time you have without the reports, there are a lot of us who are truly grateful.
Hoping you all had a safe trip home. (i don't miss driving through kansas!)
Regards,
DeadFish
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Unfortunately, the speakers were not broken-in before the show, so we had that to deal with. There was a LOT that was brand new in these speakers and the crossovers, so have you actually heard these speakers before?
We also used some Amarra EQ to deal with some room issues. It was too bright on Friday for my taste, a bit better on Saturday and cooking on Sunday. It seems like it always happens this way when several vendors share a room. All-in-all by Sunday it was sounding very live IMO. Certainly best sound of any show I have done. Capable of sounding like a large concert hall
Its a matter of taste. Some dont want the dynamic live sound. Others do. And BTW, the clarity, dynamics and low-noise was due to the electronics. I use the same electronics at home and it sounds even better with my various speakers. The JC-1 monoblocks are modded, not stock. Most showgoers attribute the sound totally to the speakers, but in fact it is much more a function of the source quality and entire system. The great dispersion and bass was a function of the speakers however. These really didnt have any sweetspot effect and standing SQ was same as sitting. Remarkable for this kind of speaker IMO.
My roommates wanted the sound really loud also, so that was hard to mediate. I think some just liked it that way....
It's too bad that we didnt have tracks that satisfied everyones tastes. When someone requests R&R, the others in the room usually clear-out. Same thing can happen with classical. The best thing is to request a music genre when you enter the room. We had a large collection of good tracks, from 44.1 to 192.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
I was in the room on Sunday pm and had Steve play Jeff Beck's cover of A Day in the Life. It may have cleared out the room, but I sure enjoyed it :thumb: Although it was a little loud at times, I thought the system had good tonal balance, clarity and dynamics. Steve, it was great meeting you and talking golf as well as audio. Brian, a pleasure to meet you and Sue. Now, if I can just get you to add a turntable . . . . :eyebrows:
Laura
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The Iris room had Mac Mini and Amarra 1.2 (I like it better) until Sunday, when we changed over to the Mach 2 Mac Mini. We are not reps or sell any of these. We were initially skeptical as to whether changing the Mac mini to another one would make any difference, given our asyc USB interfaces. However, once we gave it a try on Saturday after the show close, we were convinced. The imaging was more focused. It was not easy changing computers (Mac should be easier) at a show, but we did it and had it running all day Sunday. Thanks to Mach 2 music:
http://www.mach2music.com
BTW, we also used the EQ functions of Amarra to do some minor tweaks, which I had never done before. Found out that it REALLY works. When I get home, I'm trying it on my home system.
Steve N.
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I was in the room on Sunday pm and had Steve play Jeff Beck's cover of A Day in the Life. It may have cleared out the room, but I sure enjoyed it :thumb: Although it was a little loud at times, I thought the system had good tonal balance, clarity and dynamics. Steve, it was great meeting you and talking golf as well as audio. Brian, a pleasure to meet you and Sue. Now, if I can just get you to add a turntable . . . . :eyebrows:
Laura
Laura - a pleasure to meet you also. Next time you are at BBR, lets get together and play golf (my wife also), maybe at the new Glaze Meadow course.
Steve N.
BBR EM2
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Did anyone see the Sonus Veritas in the Analysis Audio room?
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Which model? No way I'm looking back for the image! http://www.acousticzen.com/speakers.html (http://www.acousticzen.com/speakers.html) I really liked talking with the US distributor, great guy. I'll get the price fer ya. They are very reasonable for the product delivered, overall quality, etc. IIRC the stand mount is only about $3k/pr, maybe 3500.
Thanks, they were the Crescendo; they sounded amazing!
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Thanks, they were the Crescendo; they sounded amazing!
What veneer was used on the Crescendo at the show?
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I spent more time listening to the Omens as I thought I was buying them and at one point, I was going to be taking home the black pair in the Peachtree room. I didn't notice the soundstage issue described by themadmilkman. This is not a criticism of what he heard as we all perceive things different. I have had speakers in the past that have had this issue and it would make me nuts, so I did pay attention to it while I was listening. I also read on the Zu site that they can be adjusted to lean back to raise the sound stage so it would seem that this was a consideration when designing them and another reason not to dismiss what themadmilkman heard.
To be fair, I sat in the front row, which felt a little close, and I have an extremely long torso. My ears were sitting pretty high. It's nothing that aiming the speakers (I wasn't sure this would be possible with the bass loading system they use, apparently it is) or a well-designed stand wouldn't fix. I do think I'll end up purchasing them with my tax return next year.
Since I've had a night to rest after the drive home, I guess I'll post my impressions.
Overall, I thought the sound quality in most rooms was mediocre, but I understand how hard show conditions can be to work with. Still, it felt like a lot of the rooms were set up haphazardly, and a little bit more work would have paid off hugely.
There were a few rooms I really liked, including:
Rogue Audio w/ Revel speakers. Very smooth and natural, at least at low volumes. With the volume pressed the speakers seemed to overload the room and the sound would get harsh. Still, Rogue's electronics seem to be well-designed and produced great sound.
Aperion speakers with Marantz electronics. This room was far from excellent, but their speakers were extremely well-balanced. No glaring errors, nothing obnoxious being thrown in your face. I wouldn't buy them, but I would gladly recommend them to friends looking for a home theater / music speaker.
Audio Note. Very easy to listen to with great detail. I could have sat in this room all day.
Zu Audio. Not perfect, but damn good for the money.
Ayre. Not sure what speakers they were using, but it had a smooth and balanced sound.
Vandersteen & Audio Research. Possibly the best sound of the show. Very quiet system and very neutral. I wish they would have played something that really pushed the Vandies and showed what they were capable of,
Benchmark. Can't remember what speakers they were using, but it was a fun system. It desperately needed to be placed into a smaller room, but it was fun.
Emerald Physics. Remarkably full-bodied sound.
Triode Corp. of Japan. Seriously beautiful gear that sounded great too. Did I mention they look great? Because they really do look GREAT.
Beyond that, I discovered that I still hate ribbon tweeters, Wilson has improved greatly but still isn't to my liking, and there are plenty of designers out there who still don't understand that speakers (and amps, for that matter) need to fit into a house and its accompanying decor. 5" woofers aren't sufficient to reproduce full-bodied bass (although there were a few transmission line speakers that I thought came close) and there was a larger percentage of "young people" (in this case meaning, say, 35 and younger) than I expected.
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...there was a larger percentage of "young people" (in this case meaning, say, 35 and younger) than I expected.
"All you pay a man to do until he's forty is make mistakes!" Horace Vendergeller (played by Walter Mathau) in Hello Dolly!
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I thought the Audio Note room sounded good as well. Another one I forgot on my list of good sounding rooms!
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Here's a few pics I was able to take for the short time I was there. Thanks everyone for posting your pics as I'm getting to see everything I missed. FWIW, the Emerald Physics rooms just held my attention. I've never heard OB's sound sooooo good!!!! I've got to try some DIY ones sometime as I could never afford the EP's. Sanders electrostats sounded very good, almost like having headphones on, but that sweet spot is so small. For horns I'd have to give the nod to Classic Audio. I've heard them before and they never have disappointed me--none of the usual beaming you hear with horns.
Anyway, here's a link to my pics as I'm not going to chew up AC bandwidth. Just go to the slideshow to see bigger pics if you want. Please excuse the bad pics and the fact I haven't got them labeled yet. All I had on me was my little point 'n shoot. Takes fabulous outdoor and macro shots, but that flash is way weak.
http://shanemoorephotography.smugmug.com/Electronics (http://shanemoorephotography.smugmug.com/Electronics)
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Sunday's photos and comments. I had to leave at 1:00 pm to catch my flight, so fewer photos than the coverage of the previous two days. As it turned out, my flight was delayed for 3 hours. There's no justice. The Friday and Saturday ratings of :thumb: and :thumb: :thumb: still apply for Sunday.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37321)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37322)
Rogue electronics and Tel cabling. Nice organic and engaging sound. Forgot I was listening to electronics and just focus on the music. I only heard the system with Lps, so don't know about the cd sound. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37323)
Hammertone Audio, Reed Tonearm, Allnic tube electronics, Xact Audio. The sound in this room was excellent, utilizing Lp playback. Another room that produced natural, organic sound which made you forget about the equipment. One of my favorites. :thumb: :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37324)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37325)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37326)
Joseph speakers with Ayre electronics. Jeff Joseph was debuting his little Pulsar speaker. The Pulsar was by far my favorite small speaker at this year's show. Its dimensions are approximately 15' h x 8.5' w x 13' d and weighs a whopping 36 lbs! Now that's a lot of mass for the size. Mr. Joseph played for me the Jean Guillou organ translations of Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an exhibition" (Dorian recordings) which I own, and the low notes were clean and almost all there. Very impressive bass, and very close to the bass reproduction of my AAD 2001 speakers, my reference for a small speaker. Diane Birch's "Fire Escape" also sounded terrific on the Pulsars. Overall, tonally the sound was fairly neutral with Ayre electronics. If the mid-range was slightly warmer it would be the perfect sound for me. One thumb for the system. :thumb: Two thumbs for the Pulsars. :thumb: :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37328)
I think this is the High Water sound room but am not sure. If it is, the sound was fairly engaging.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37327)
GR Research speakers, Dodd Audio electronics, db Labs dac room. This was the last room I visited, and it was also one of my favorites. I played Diane Birch's "Fire Escape," and the imaging and sound staging was very good. Good tonal balance with some harmonic richness. :thumb: :thumb:
The batteries in my camera crapped out sometime Saturday, so I don't have photos but have comments on the following rooms:
Analysis speakers - realistic imaging and thought the setup sounded better than last year.
AudioKinesis speakers and Neko dac room - This is an interesting room. Duke LaJeune played a song from the Simon & Garfunkel live concert at Central Park (an event which I attended), which totally absorbed me. I was transported back to that concert. He played another piece of music which I didn't know and it sounded bland. Overall, I give it a tentative thumbs up. :thumb:
Grant Fidelity room - Good sounding equipment for reasonable cost, just like last year.
Emerald Physics room - I thought the speakers sounded better this year than last, but it's still not my cup of tea.
Benchmark dac room - I thought the sound was pretty good, until dynamics overwhelm the small speakers Benchmark was using.
Unfortunately, due to the 20+ additional exhibitors this year, and the fact I had to leave early on Sunday, I was only able to visit 85%-90% of the rooms. The one room I wanted to visit but didn't was the TAD/Rockport room. I really wanted to hear the smaller TADs, as the large TADs were one of my favorite speakers last year. Hope they bring them next year.
Paul Mah
p.s. If I find any more notes, I'll post them. I'll summarize my favorites for all 3 days in a little while.
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Chris - See my photo of Jeff Joseph, posing on his Pulsar speaker. It could have been you. :lol:
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Tyson/Pez, I think there is a picture missing here:
"Ah, lest I forget, THE most transparent speakers at the show (too bad they sounded crappy):"
My bad!
Here they are.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/5091610031_774afefc62_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5092204490_f2e67e6d4a_b.jpg)
I wouldn't characterize their sound as "crappy" I would say they were 'clearly awful'. :duh:
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I have a lot of writing to do over the next couple days. Being the first RMAF I have attended in person and as a manufacturer (vendor), I have a lot of thoughts to put together. After traveling for 9 hours today (and dealing with Denver airport on a Monday morning :duh:) my brain is far from ready to do it tonight.
I will say that I am kicking myself in the arse for not being able to get out there sooner. I meet and hing out with some great people over the past 5 days. Here is a qick shot of our Purity Audio Design room. I am working on a full show report for our web site as well. I will also start my own thread going into detail about my first RMAF but like I said, there is a lot to put together and many people to thank for making this fisrt show a success far greater than we could have hoped for.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37353)
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Saturday (cont'd)
So, Lou, Wayne, and I go out to a great local pizza joint called Pasquini's, great time was had all around. We come back and Jason convinces Lou to hook up his 5 watt "Truth and Corruption" SET amp to drive the Ulysses full range. We played it on low volume for about 15 minutes, and started to listen. Jaws hit the floor. By the time we were at 30 minutes, it was just stunning sound. This was VERY surprising to me, because Jason's amps had a bit of difficulty with both my V2's and our friend Mike's Gedlee speakers. Also, the Atmaspheres had done so poorly with the Ulysses earlier. But the Daedalus and the Truth/Corruption amp was a match made in heaven.
Next, we pulled the amp and headed down to the First Sound room. Oh man, it just got better and better! With the tubed preamp and awesome CD player and overall simpler system, it was very synergistic. Don't get me wrong, the Berning OTL amp it replaces is very fine, indeed. But the transformer based SET amp was just magical. We literally stayed up till 3am listening to track after track after track.
Sunday
Pics today are of poor quality because they are from my iPhone. Even though it does good outdoor shots, it's pretty horrid indoors with low or mixed lighting. Apologies up front. But Jason was again falling down on the job :P
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1326.jpg)
Dynaudio Sapphire and T&A Room - I kid you not, the name of the electronics in this room was Theory & Application (T&A). They were hybrid amps driving a really cool looking set of Dyn's. Pretty good overall, nothing stood out as bad, but overall not exceptional.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1330.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1331.jpg)
Sony Speakers and Pass Labs - Speakers from Sony? Yes indeed, and using absolutely first rate drivers from Scan Speak and excellent build quality in the cabinets. They were being played with some Muzak at low levels. Jason fell asleep. I thought they sounde pleasant and way better than anything I would have thought Sony would put out. But the volume and music selection made it impossible to get a real handle on them.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1333.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1335.jpg)
Tyler Audio - A really nice sounding room. Similar to the Dynaudio Sapphire's, but quite a bit better in overall sound, especially in the bass, which was very impressive to me. Also, this room had the most over the top remote control ever. It's actually not a remote, it's my Light Saber.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1338.jpg)
NAPA Acoustics - One of the coolest and most fun rooms all show! Look how absolutely TINY those speakers are! And they sounded good, very good!!! Driven by that tiny CD player and Tiny tube-hybrid integrated amp. $200 for the speakers and $400 for the CDP and $400 for the Integrated. Seriously, if you need an office or a bedroom type system, THIS is what you should be checking out.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1340.jpg)
Less Loss Audio - The only reason I went in this room is that someone on AC requested that we try to hit it. Boy am I glad I did. The speakers and amps sounded PHENOMENAL. I still give the Dynaudio C4 room my vote for best sound at show, but that's mainly cause I'm a tube guy. If I were and SS guy, this room simply kicked @ss. Massive transformers and power supply choke (in an SS amp!), cryo treated of course! This was easily the most tweaked out room I saw at the whole show. I'm not sure how much the tweaks contributed, but the end result was pretty dang stunning.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1345.jpg)
Purity Audio Room - this had the bad luck of coming right after the Less Loss room. Sure, it sounded good, but just was not at the same level. Maybe I'll try to hit it sooner in the show next year.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1351.jpg)
JM Reynaud Room - Not my favorite tweeter in the world, but JM actually manages to implement it very well. The overall presentation of the speaker is a bit light for my tastes, but it really gets the energy of a performance down well. And it was very coherent. So, maybe not something I'd choose for myself, but for someone with a preference for a more lit-up sound, these would be outstanding. Plus, you gotta love any room that is playing Shostakovich when you walk in!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1354.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1355.jpg)
Rogue Audio - Ah, I finally get to hear Rogue! I've read about them for so long and I just happened to see their sign as we were walking by. I went in expecting to love this room. Plus they were spinning vinyl, usually a very good sign. I dunno, it was quite underwhelming. Maybe I'd hit the wall at this point, but it just sounded like another "generically good" hifi presentation. I'll try to hit them sooner as well next year.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1357.jpg)
Gallo Acoustics - Talk about a 180, here was another room I'd always read about but never heard. And based on what I'd read, I expected to be underwhelmed. But in reality they were quite nice! Tonal balance was good (although Jason felt they were bright, but then again he was trying to take a nap), the image was very deep and well defined, and they had really good bass. They are a bit short, but then again, so was the designer :P
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1362.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1360.jpg)
Analysis Plus Room - I don't think these (very cool looking) speakers were actually for sale or even still in production, and the room was focused on selling cables of course. I loved the way these speakers sounded, they were easily the most dynamic of anything I heard at the whole show. Maybe a tad bright, but just killer, killer dynamics.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1364.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1365.jpg)
Tannoy and Velodyne Room - The Tannoys seemed pretty nice. I say "seemed" because the Velodyne rep had the f'ing sub turned up so loud it was impossible to tell. Left this room in a hurry.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1370.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1372.jpg)
JBL and Mark Levinson Room - Jason doing his best Lonewolf :D I wondered if this room would be as bad as I thought it might, with high efficiency horns and high powered SS amplification. It was. The speakers played VERY loud, but only had two gears - very soft and very loud, with no dynamic gradations at all.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1379.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1377.jpg)
Holistic Audio and Virtue Audio - Jason and I did not agree on this room. He thought the imaging was weird, while I actually enjoyed. it. Of course, I own open baffle speakers and he owns direct radiators, so we are probably simply expressing our biases here a bit.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1383.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1385.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1386.jpg)
Duevel and Thor Audio Room - Jason and I felt exactly the same way about this room as we felt about the previous Holistic Audio room.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1348.jpg)
Avatar Acoustics and Feickert Analog - This room is a good example of why you should bring your own source material. We listened to the dealers LP of James Taylor and it was way too sibilant. Then we put on a different LP and it was much better. I put in my CD in and it sounded very good. Maybe a tad on the analytical side, but still well balanced within that type of presenation. Dynamics were very good and bass was suprising in such a modestly sized speaker. Good stuff!
Postscript
I would have even more to report but everyone started packing it up at 4pm on Sunday (the show is supposed to go till 6pm). But, I suppose I can't blame them for wanting to get a jump start, plus it was SLOW all day Sunday (often Jason and I were the only people in a given room). There are FAR too many vendors at RMAF for anyone to hit them all, so this year we did not even try. Based on what we heard last year, we were able to avoid certain rooms and really focus on the more interesting/better rooms. I think that subjectively this made for a much more positive overall show vibe for us.
I'd also like to give some major kudos to the AC based manufacturers. While many rooms were sitting on their hands, the AC guys are clearly trying to push the boundaries in high end, ether from an absolute standpoint, or from a value standpoint (and often both!!). Meeting people like woodsyi, chairguy, Nuance, Vinly Lady, etc... was truly a highlight of the show for me. Being able to immediatly have a bond and rapport with people I'd never met in person before was a real joy and I hope to see you ALL at next year's show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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...Here is a qick shot of our Purity Audio Design room...
I loved the sound in your room.
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[re:AudioKinesis speakers]Man, I hated those things. I thought they were very glaring and overall something I would never listen to for more than 2 minutes.
Big Red, we played anything people brought and some of it made me cringe. It is possible that you were in the room at such a time.
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Tyson....
Less Loss Audio - The only reason I went in this room is that someone on AC requested that we try to hit it. Boy am I glad I did. The speakers and amps sounded PHENOMENAL.
US premiere! NEM AI-50 handmade mono amps from Siberia....with.....Kaiser GmbH Kawero Vivace high performance loudspeakers from Germany.
Told you they were good speakers.... :wink: ....but big bucks... :duh:
Thanks....
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No doubt. The more I listened to them, the better they got.
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Gotcha. I wonder why Lou didn't use the zero's then. I'm sure Ralph knew what he was going to use them for. Oh well. Glad it all worked out in the end.
the problem wasn't a mismatch, ( they worked fine upstairs with the 60's). Ralph and I discussed the 6 ohm impedance and with a very stable impedance there is no problem. there was something going on with the amps there, (they were a used pair). am at Galibiers house now, just did the crossover upgrade on his Ulysses, fired them up with the Atmasphere 60's and they sound fine with that pair.
thanks for all the kind words , lou
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I was surprised how neutral they seemed. I am use to the Essence, since I own a pair. The essence to me see a little forward up top, where the Omens did not at all. The Super Fly's look like they have the same HF driver, but are hotter on the top end. Seems like the Omen is just a good all arounder... nothing offensive. I am also surprised at how high the image hight is considering how short they are.
Anybody get a chance to sit with the Zu Omens and have any thoughts?? :thumb:
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Was there a show special on the SuperFly's? I think I actually like them better than my Essence's
JH Audio JH13 Pro inner ear monitor.
Ended up ordering the Zu Soul Superfly. I really liked the Omen but the Soul SF were just that much better. As good as the dynamics were with the Omen, the Soul SF were even better.
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Okay, this is my favorite rooms list from the three days:
Fritzspeakers and ModWright electronics room. :thumb:
Audio Physic speakers and Trigon electronics room. :thumb:
LessLoss room. :thumb:
Sjofn Hifi - "The Clue" speaker room. :thumb:
Simon Yorke, CAT, Ayre, Lansche room. :thumb:
Von Schweikert VR33 and VR35 rooms. :thumb:
Sanders electronics and electrostatics room. :thumb:
Bryston electronics and PMC speakers room. :thumb:
Thor electronics and CD Deuvel speakers room. :thumb:
Rogue electronics and Tel cables room. :thumb:
AudoKinesis speaker and Neko Dac room. :thumb:
GR Research, Dodd Audio, db Labs room. :thumb: :thumb:
Xact audio, Allnic audio, Hammertone audio, Reed tonearm room. :thumb: :thumb:
ModWright electronics, Daedalus speakers room. :thumb: :thumb:
deHavilland electronics, Sonist speakers room. :thumb: :thumb:
Joseph Audio Pulsar speaker room. :thumb: :thumb:
Linkwitz/Orion room. :thumb: :thumb: This was my favorite room.
Read my earlier comments on these rooms for sound impressions.
Addendum: Wilson Audio Sophia III speaker. :thumb:
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Better pictures:
(http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2010/pics_101510/anaylsis_plus_system.jpg)
(http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2010/pics_101610/jbl_levinson_room_1.jpg)
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the problem wasn't a mismatch, ( they worked fine upstairs with the 60's). Ralph and I discussed the 6 ohm impedance and with a very stable impedance there is no problem. there was something going on with the amps there, (they were a used pair). am at Galibiers house now, just did the crossover upgrade on his Ulysses, fired them up with the Atmasphere 60's and they sound fine with that pair.
thanks for all the kind words , lou
Ahh. Wonder if I can get a deal on these M-60's. :D :scratch:
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Ya'll rock. Thanks for thinking of the rest of us with your fantabulous coverage.
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THANK YOU! for the great pics and other info.
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Great reports by everyone -- many thanks to all contributors. I am definitely going to have to attend next year.
Tony
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I also would like to thank everyone for the pictures and reports of the gear at RMAF. I attended the show a couple of years ago and certainly look forward to the opportunity to go again.
Ken
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Was there a show special on the SuperFly's? I think I actually like them better than my Essence's
I hosted a Zu Party last year in Fort Lauderdale and was certain I would buy the Essence at the time. Circumstances at the time led me to holding off on the purchase. I still like the Essence but after hearing the Omen and the SuperFly, I'm glad I waited. They were offering the SuperFly for $2,000 at the show. Sunday morning I went up to the Zu room to pay them for the show demo Omens and spent some more time with the SuperFly. They were playing some Dead which got my toes tapping and then I gave in and cancelled the Omens, which were bought by a friend and ordered the SuperFly. I am sure I've said this before but the Omen at $1000 is a steal, imo.
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Was that TRI TRV-4SE preamp on display in the Acoustic Zen's room???
Sounds like Robert Lee has done it again :thumb: I recalled that he has been showing with TRI corporation for quite a number of years running. Wonder why TRI equipments never really took off in the states, perhaps it's not expensive enough by audiophile standard :green:
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I would have even more to report but everyone started packing it up at 4pm on Sunday (the show is supposed to go till 6pm).
Tyson,
You might have checked the booklet given out at the show to find the hours:
Friday, Saturday and Sunday
October 15-17, 2010
Denver Marriott Tech Center
Denver, CO
Show Times:
Friday, October 15, 2010: 12 PM to 6 PM
Saturday, October 16, 2010: 9 AM to 6 PM
Sunday, October 17, 2010: 9 AM to 4 PM
Thanks to everyone who stopped by room 1030. It took us too long to get the room set up to sound good. To reiterate, I do believe the Atma-Sphere amps can sound good with Daedalus gear. Tom Mackris, who is the Colorado dealer for Atma-Sphere, uses M-60s in his personal system with Ulysses. In fact it WAS his personal system that was showing in room 1130. It was also Tom's decision to pull the Green Mountain speakers and replace them with his personal Ulysses to get the sound he wanted in that room.
The particular pair of MA-1 were supposed to have been factory refurbished. Unfortunately they had been sitting around for many weeks in boxes. A few tubes were bad. Like open filaments. Perhaps they would have sounded good after 11 hours of use (Ralph's suggestion), but we didn't have the time. We spent most of Friday trying to track down why we did not get the type of sound we wanted. In the end we went with what Lou KNEW would sound good, Modwright KWA-150s run in mono for the Ulysses. The new black face Modwright KWA-150 in stereo for the bass modules. The crossover I built for the system ended up working very well.
The modded EE DAC showed up late on Thursday. I asked Lou if wee could try it in the system to see how it worked. One listen and he said it is not leaving :) Saturday afternoon and all day Sunday I was playing mostly 24/96 files through the modded SB Touch into the modded EE DAC. We ran Ethernet cable from a router to the Touch and then to the MacBook Pro. No problem with stuttering.
Steven Stone of Absolute Sound was impressed with the modded Touch and power supply. He will be doing a review of it for Absolute Sound.
I was not able to get out much, but I enjoyed Fritz's room. A very kind and gracious man. I have to agree with the earlier poster that using a roundover on the front of the cabinets might help the sound a bit but definitely improve the aesthetics in my eye.
Jason's build of the TubeLab Simple SE did sound impessive on the Ulysses speakers. Great job, youngster :lol:
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Was that TRI TRV-4SE preamp on display in the Acoustic Zen's room???
Sounds like Robert Lee has done it again :thumb: I recalled that he has been showing with TRI corporation for quite a number of years running. Wonder why TRI equipments never really took off in the states, perhaps it's not expensive enough by audiophile standard :green:
AliG,
I'm pretty sure he was using an integrated when I was in there as I think he said it could also be used as a power amp. I simply forgot to mention the AZ room earlier, but this setup was easily at the top of my list. I could have listened there all day. The TR gear was also beautifully built.
Tom
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Does anyone know how many of the manufacturers bring room measurement equipment to measure the room response to help dial the room in?
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Does anyone know how many of the manufacturers bring room measurement equipment to measure the room response to help dial the room in?
Dunno about the rest, but I can tell you that, in Sonic Studio's suite, a teeny bit of LF correction was applied. About 2 dB was dialed in to their Model Four DAC/prepro. The Focal guys helped set up their Electra 1028 Be pair. FYI, the speakers were driven by a pair of Parasound JC 1s in turn driven by the Model Four fed from Amarra.
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Dunno about the rest, but I can tell you that, in Sonic Studio's suite, a teeny bit of LF correction was applied. About 2 dB was dialed in to their Model Four DAC/prepro. The Focal guys helped set up their Electra 1028 Be pair. FYI, the speakers were driven by a pair of Parasound JC 1s in turn driven by the Model Four fed from Amarra.
Did they use use room measurement software to see the before / after?
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Does anyone know how many of the manufacturers bring room measurement equipment to measure the room response to help dial the room in?
I have used the DEQX to measure the standard RMAF room and like all home listening environments it does have some bass issues. The best way to deal with it is to use room correction / EQ because you're limited to only a few placement options.
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I finally got my pictures uploaded into the gallery. Pardon the quality as I only used a very small P&S. BTW, I had to do a little digging to get all the tags right as I am terrible taking notes. :oops:
RMAF 2010 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=4184)
A sample for you. I will get my thoughts out later. I agree with a lot of what's been said but there are some differences. This work thing has got me all tied up at the moment though.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37264)
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Did they use use room measurement software to see the before / after?
Turns out the Sonic Studio dudes busted out one of their Model 302 A/D/A pre/pros, a calibrated mic and SpectraFoo analysis software. Pink noise and swept tones were used to characterize the room response. The Focal guys made placement suggestions until everyone was happy.
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Anybody have any comments on the Tyler speakers room?
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(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/tyort1/RMAF%202010/IMG_1333.jpg)
Joseph Audio - A really nice sounding room. Similar to the Dynaudio Sapphire's, but quite a bit better in overall sound, especially in the bass, which was very impressive to me. Also, this room had the most over the top remote control ever. It's actually not a remote, it's my Light Saber.
I thought this was Tyler Acoustics' room? With Plinius and Silver Circle Audio.
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Purity Audio Room - this had the bad luck of coming right after the Less Loss room. Sure, it sounded good, but just was not at the same level. Maybe I'll try to hit it sooner in the show next year.
We'll accept that :green: I can tell you that the speaker arrangement was a last minute decission as we had other options that did not work out in this particular room. Lucily Alex from RAAL was gracious enough to let us use his new dipole ribbon which really brough the Rethm speakers up several levels.
Next year will be quite different :eyebrows:
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BTW, I had to do a little digging to get all the tags right as I am terrible taking notes. :oops:
I made the mistake of thinking I could remember each room's sound without taking notes :duh: Who was I trying to kid :lol: Note to self: Take notes next year
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...I can tell you that the speaker arrangement was a last minute decission as we had other options that did not work out in this particular room. Lucily Alex from RAAL was gracious enough to let us use his new dipole ribbon which really brough the Rethm speakers up several levels...
Your room sounded great to me!
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Dude, seriously, the DESIGNER of the Atma's was in the room working on them. If there was anything needed like the autoformers, don't you think the f'ing designer would have insisted on them?
Hi Tyson, just some thoughts on what was happening in the Daedelus room. First off, the MA-1s have no worries driving 5 or 6 ohms. The speaker/amp interface was not the issue. There was a ground loop in the crossover that took some doing to overcome, and on one of the evenings we had that sorted out.
As far as I can tell, the big issue was that the MA-1s overloaded the Furman power conditioner in the room, and despite my insistence that they be plugged into the wall, it never happened. That's a lot of power to go through one power cord (running the entire system!) and one conditioner. We showed with Furman the first time they ever came to CES, and the guy wrote the book on what is important in power line conditioning when he worked at Fluke instruments (one of these days I will put his white paper on line...).
Anyway, the MA-1s could not get decent power and they went right to sleep. I'd say over the last 6 months we spent more time and energy on this room than all of the rooms we have ever done at any show put together, and for naught. But the one thing it was **not** was a speaker/amp incompatibility. Anyone who does these shows a lot knows how important the setup is, and paying attention to important details. Unfortunately, I was not allowed the input that I would have liked to have in this room. So I agree with you on the results.
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Tyson, yes, the speakers in that photo look like Tyler's D- 2s. Nobody seemed to take any notice of the sound other than that short comment.
Hear any good classical music at the demos in Denver? I used to bring my own CDs to play and drove most of the other auditioners out of the rooms. Didn't make it down this year.
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Hi Tyson, just some thoughts on what was happening in the Daedelus room. First off, the MA-1s have no worries driving 5 or 6 ohms. The speaker/amp interface was not the issue. There was a ground loop in the crossover that took some doing to overcome, and on one of the evenings we had that sorted out.
As far as I can tell, the big issue was that the MA-1s overloaded the Furman power conditioner in the room, and despite my insistence that they be plugged into the wall, it never happened. That's a lot of power to go through one power cord (running the entire system!) and one conditioner. We showed with Furman the first time they ever came to CES, and the guy wrote the book on what is important in power line conditioning when he worked at Fluke instruments (one of these days I will put his white paper on line...).
Anyway, the MA-1s could not get decent power and they went right to sleep. I'd say over the last 6 months we spent more time and energy on this room than all of the rooms we have ever done at any show put together, and for naught. But the one thing it was **not** was a speaker/amp incompatibility. Anyone who does these shows a lot knows how important the setup is, and paying attention to important details. Unfortunately, I was not allowed the input that I would have liked to have in this room. So I agree with you on the results.
Thanks for the explanation Ralph. Great to see you here on A.C. :thumb:
On another note, I would be very interested in reading the white paper that the Furman Engineer wrote. Please let us know when you have it posted on your site.
I'm sorry that you didn't get the result that you and your company deserve. Your OTL amps are still VERY HIGH on my purchase list.
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I bet Duke got great results with Atmosphere in his room. Again, very little on Duke's room has been posted.
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Tom,
It was absolutely GREAT to have met YOU after all these times.
I'm sorry we couldn't hook up after hour since I was playing hosts to several events.
Give me a kick in the rear next year please if I'd forget to spend some time with you.
Thanks Tom.
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Sorry for repeating this: the Atma-Sphere S30 driving my monitors (5.2 Ohms minimum) were the best speaker/amp match I've heard, once the 20-Ohm peak at 2.2 kHz (the only peak above the bass range) was flattened. The fact it had audibly more dynamic punch than a very good 50W class A high-50 lb SS amp speaks well for the OTL.
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As far as I can tell, the big issue was that the MA-1s overloaded the Furman power conditioner in the room, and despite my insistence that they be plugged into the wall, it never happened.
As we found out later, even plugging into to wall would not have helped much. At one point, after turning the MA-1s on, the power for that wall went out. So did the power for the room above us. It turned out the hotel had the two rooms wired together. They shared a single 20 amp circuit. With 1 kW draw from the MA-1 and 600 watts from the M-60s above us, there was not much extra current to go around.
The ground loop seemed to manifest itself only when the Atma-sphere gear was used. A Marchand electronic crossover was also tried but it had the same noise. No noise was noticed with the Modwright amps in the system.
This conversation can easily degrade into flaming. I would prefer to avoid that. What it simply comes down to was we couldn't get the Atma-sphere gear to work in that room with what we brought to the show. Ralph did spend quite a bit of time trying to make it work. In the end, we decided to go with gear that had worked before.
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Tom,
It was absolutely GREAT to have met YOU after all these times.
I'm sorry we couldn't hook up after hour since I was playing hosts to several events.
Give me a kick in the rear next year please if I'd forget to spend some time with you.
Thanks Tom.
It was a pleasure to meet you too Hugh. I passed through a few times and you were pretty busy at the room so that seems like good news! Congrats on the show and I hope to be there next year as well.
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OK, I am busted, I should have checked the book for the hours on Sunday instead of relying on Jason :D
Re: my comment on the Atma's, I understand they were removed for a technical difficulty. And my comments on their sound quality are MINE ALONE and represent my OPINION. Others feel differently, and that's cool. Actually I forgot the Atma's were in Duke's AudioKinesis room, so there's one system that I felt was excellent with them.
Mis-labeled the Tyler room, sorry about that, fixing it now.
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We'll accept that :green: I can tell you that the speaker arrangement was a last minute decission as we had other options that did not work out in this particular room. Lucily Alex from RAAL was gracious enough to let us use his new dipole ribbon which really brough the Rethm speakers up several levels.
Next year will be quite different :eyebrows:
I will say I went in to your room expecting to really dislike it, based on the drivers used in the Rethm's (I usually quite dislike "fullrange" drivers of this type). But, the fact that I enjoyed it quite a bit, even after coming directly from a room I absolutely loved, speaks volumes in favor of the sound you were getting. Running the bass modules and the bipolar tweeters really gave the room a nice and full plus spacious sound.
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Thanks to all who provided photos and commentary. I really enjoyed the honest and snarky opinions. Hope to go next year.
AP
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Tyson, yes, the speakers in that photo look like Tyler's D- 2s. Nobody seemed to take any notice of the sound other than that short comment.
Hear any good classical music at the demos in Denver? I used to bring my own CDs to play and drove most of the other auditioners out of the rooms. Didn't make it down this year.
Hey Randy,
To elaborate a bit on the Tylers, I was at the point in the show (on sunday) that I was starting to hit the wall. I looked in and thought, "Oh Great! Another Cone/Dome speaker!". But sitting down and listening to them was very nice, they were clearly better than the very good Dynaudio Sapphires we'd heard just previous. Very tight, strong bass (which was surprisingly rare at the show), smooth almost seductive mids (even with an SS amp), and perfectly integrated highs. And the soundstage was DEEP, especially for a direct radiator speaker. Among the very best cone/dome direct radiating towers I heard all show.
As for music, yes I heard two bits that I really enjoyed - the JM Reynaud room had some Shostakovitch String Quartets performed by the Sorrel Quartet on Chandos that was very good - it focused more on pathos than angst, and it worked pretty well. Also, Jason picked up a CD in the MA Recordings room of Bach on a lute that is simply a stunningly good recording. I'll be getting that one soon too.
-
As we found out later, even plugging into to wall would not have helped much. At one point, after turning the MA-1s on, the power for that wall went out. So did the power for the room above us. It turned out the hotel had the two rooms wired together. They shared a single 20 amp circuit. With 1 kW draw from the MA-1 and 600 watts from the M-60s above us, there was not much extra current to go around.
The ground loop seemed to manifest itself only when the Atma-sphere gear was used. A Marchand electronic crossover was also tried but it had the same noise. No noise was noticed with the Modwright amps in the system.
This conversation can easily degrade into flaming. I would prefer to avoid that. What it simply comes down to was we couldn't get the Atma-sphere gear to work in that room with what we brought to the show. Ralph did spend quite a bit of time trying to make it work. In the end, we decided to go with gear that had worked before.
Thom Makris was using the same speakers with our amps in that room upstairs. Power is always an issue at shows, one reason that we usually have a variac on hand, so we can correct the line voltage, which at this show was often only about 107 VAC. The ground loop issue made things harder, as a ground loop can rob a system of transparency and detail, with the obvious issue of hum for good measure.
However if anyone ever asks us about power line conditioners for the amps, I tell them to avoid them for precisely the reasons that we encountered in this room: the MA-1 (and our larger amps) overload most power conditioners. Anytime the power exceeds 50% of the capacity of the conditioner, the power from the conditioner is suspect. I think I should have been more vocal about it. :duh:
The best power conditioner I have seen was made by a company called Elgar, for industrial purposes. It is mechanically noisy, so is not practical for a show. Usually they are installed near the breakerbox, rather than in the actual listening room. But it is the only one I have seen that can make a true sine wave at full output.
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TURNTABLES !!!
There were sure a lot of spinning black disks this year, they all sounded excellent.
SOTA
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/SOTA.jpg)
VPI Classic
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/VPI.jpg)
Basis
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/basis.jpg)
This table was in the Burmester room, I don't have the name.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/burmester.jpg)
Wally Malewicz demonstrating his Wallyskater
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/dr_feickert_turntable_alignment.jpg)
Galibier had a table in a few rooms, this Stelvio I was in the Daedalus room
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/galibier.jpg)
Linn
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/linn.jpg)
Music Hall MMF-5.1
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/mmf-5_1.jpg)
Musical Life O/ from Germany
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/musical_life.jpg)
Mystery table - identify this table and arm and win a prize (not really)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/mystery_table_1.jpg)
VPI in the Soundsmith room using the Strain Gauge cartridge ($5500)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/soundsmith.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/strain_gauge1.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/strain_gauge2.jpg)
T-W Acustic Raven Black Night
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/tw-acustic_raven_black_night%20.jpg)
Mr. Walker with his Proscenium turntable - to say Mr. Walker is passionate about turntable design would be an understatement, a very interesting person to talk to.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/walker.jpg)
Well Tempered Labs with a new arm
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/well_tempered.jpg)
XactAudio Kodo 'The Beat' direct drive turntable with Reed tonearm
Platter weighs 25.5 lbs, total turntable weight is 94 lbs.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/turntables/xactaudio_reed_tonearm.jpg)
Wayne
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However if anyone ever asks us about power line conditioners for the amps, I tell them to avoid them for precisely the reasons that we encountered in this room: the MA-1 (and our larger amps) overload most power conditioners. Anytime the power exceeds 50% of the capacity of the conditioner, the power from the conditioner is suspect. I think I should have been more vocal about it. :duh:
I'll attest to the fact that the Atma-Sphere's like a lot of current. When my M-60's first arrived I plugged them into my BPT 2.0, which has a 20amp balanced transformer inside. I was horribly disappointed, especially after shelling out considerable cash. Plugged them into the wall and presto, like a whole new amp. I know the MA-1's are even hungrier. I am using a Bybee conditioner with the amps now but it doesn't limit current in any way and would happily pass 30A if the IEC and outlets would support it.
Back to the show reports now. :)
-
Thom Makris was using the same speakers with our amps in that room upstairs. Power is always an issue at shows, one reason that we usually have a variac on hand, so we can correct the line voltage, which at this show was often only about 107 VAC. The ground loop issue made things harder, as a ground loop can rob a system of transparency and detail, with the obvious issue of hum for good measure.
However if anyone ever asks us about power line conditioners for the amps, I tell them to avoid them for precisely the reasons that we encountered in this room: the MA-1 (and our larger amps) overload most power conditioners. Anytime the power exceeds 50% of the capacity of the conditioner, the power from the conditioner is suspect. I think I should have been more vocal about it. :duh:
.......
Ralph,
You might want to talk to Thom Mackris about his experience with the Kaplan Cable Alchemist Power Conditioner that he used in his room 1130 to power your MP-1 preamp and M-60 monoblocs. The consensus was that it was a major improvement over the crappy hotel supplied power. The preamp experienced the greatest improvement (on its individual source component filter), but the amps (on their own 20 amp filter) also improved with no dynamic constraints.
FWIW,
Paul Kaplan
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Ralph,
You might want to talk to Thom Mackris about his experience with the Kaplan Cable Alchemist Power Conditioner that he used in his room 1130 to power your MP-1 preamp and M-60 monoblocs. The consensus was that it was a major improvement over the crappy hotel supplied power. The preamp experienced the greatest improvement (on its individual source component filter), but the amps (on their own 20 amp filter) also improved with no dynamic constraints.
FWIW,
Paul Kaplan
You have a PM.
-
Ralph,
You might want to talk to Thom Mackris about his experience with the Kaplan Cable Alchemist Power Conditioner that he used in his room 1130 to power your MP-1 preamp and M-60 monoblocs. The consensus was that it was a major improvement over the crappy hotel supplied power. The preamp experienced the greatest improvement (on its individual source component filter), but the amps (on their own 20 amp filter) also improved with no dynamic constraints.
FWIW,
Paul Kaplan
Were the M-60s plugged into a power conditioner when they were attempting to drive the GMA Calypso HDs that were supposed to be in room 1130?
-
Ralph,
You might want to talk to Thom Mackris about his experience with the Kaplan Cable Alchemist Power Conditioner that he used in his room 1130 to power your MP-1 preamp and M-60 monoblocs. The consensus was that it was a major improvement over the crappy hotel supplied power. The preamp experienced the greatest improvement (on its individual source component filter), but the amps (on their own 20 amp filter) also improved with no dynamic constraints.
FWIW,
Paul Kaplan
The smaller the amplifier the easier it is. I will talk to him- but if he has a power conditioner that can handle a set of MA-1s it will be the first time I have seen that.
-
The smaller the amplifier the easier it is. I will talk to him- but if he has a power conditioner that can handle a set of MA-1s it will be the first time I have seen that.
Hate to hijack, but since Ralph threw it out there...
Can you expand on using power conditioners with MA-1 amps?
I have MA-1 MK 3 amps and they sound better going into a Furman Sound IT Ref 20i (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=IT-REF_20i) which is connected to a Pi Audio Uberbuss than connected directly to the wall. The MA-1's drive Vandy 5A's.
I am running all of this on a dedicated 20 amp line.
Thanks in advance for your reply Ralph.
George
-
Yeah, I'm going to stop you there Zybar, please repost this in either the tubes circle or the general.
Thanks
-
Yeah, I'm going to stop you there Zybar, please repost this in either the tubes circle or the general.
Thanks
Zybar
Please do start a thread about that as I'm very much interested in what Ralph has to say.
-
The Galibier TT in the Daedalus Audio room was the Stelvio I
I believe that is Wally Malewicz demonstrating his Wallyskater and not Dr. Feickert
-
Zybar
Please do start a thread about that as I'm very much interested in what Ralph has to say.
Done.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87121.msg851169;topicseen#new
Hopefully Ralph will see it and respond.
George
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What veneer was used on the Crescendo at the show?
This Veneer. :)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092203498_8dacfd3e5d_b.jpg)
I just found out their retail price: $16,000
-
Awesome room. definately the best SET setup at the show.
-
Were the M-60s plugged into a power conditioner when they were attempting to drive the GMA Calypso HDs that were supposed to be in room 1130?
No, the M-60s were plugged directly into the wall when powering the
Green Mountain Audio speakers, and the choice of speaker and interconnect cables were the choice of the GMA dude. Only after choosing the speakers were the amps evaluated through the Kaplan Alchemist conditioner and the decision to power all the Atma-Sphere electronics was made.
FWIW,
Paul
Kaplan Cable
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This Veneer. :)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5092203498_8dacfd3e5d_b.jpg)
I just found out their retail price: $16,000
Well...I couldn't tell that veneer from Astroturf in that light....but that's beside the point: WOW! I had no idea they suckers were so huge! I thought $16k/pr might lean toward the high side till seeing this image. That's a lotta meat for your money!
-
Here are a few more pics from the show
The Departure Audio room featured Herron electronics and Canton speakers. I wasn't wild about the sound I heard here although I was captivated by the lava lamp. I think it was the speakers, not my cup of tea because I have heard Herron electronics before and liked them, especially in the mids.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37381)
The Opera Consonance LP6.1 + T988 TT/tone arm combo in the Grant Fidelity room. I did not get to hear this TT.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37382)
One of the TTWeights rim drive TT. I was in this room 4 different times wanting to hear one of Larry's new TT. Each time he was explaining the engineering design to someone and it seemed like he was more interested in talking engineering/design than listening to music so I finally gave up so I can't comment on the TT ability to convey the music in the grroves, but they are beautifully designed and made.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37383)
The Teres Certus set up in the Soundsmith room. As I have said before, the sound with the Strain guage was heavenly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37384)
The "Oh Canada" Listen Up room featuring NAD electronics and PSB speakers. I'm not sure of the model, but the retail is around $5,000. I was quite impressed with the sound in this room, especially for the money. The speakers delivered coherent sound with very good bass.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37385)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37299)
Sjofn HiFi featuring "The Clue," a small monitor speaker which the importer claims the bass can go down to 28 hz on a 3 3/4" mid/bass driver. He demonstrated bass with some bass kick drums cd, which sounded clean and articulate. Overall, "The Clue" produced clean sound, with decent imaging. Show special price: $999 pr. :thumb:
A correction should be noted about the above post. "The Clue" isn't imported, but it's designed and built in Seattle, WA. Seattle native James Croft was at RMAF imparting his crazy audio brilliance to whomever wanted an earful. Here's the link to Sjofn HiFi's store: http://www.sjofnhifi.com/servlet/Categories?category=%28the+clue%29+loudpseakers (http://www.sjofnhifi.com/servlet/Categories?category=%28the+clue%29+loudpseakers)
The Sjofn HiFi room and in particular "the clue" (driven by Supra cables and Hegel electronics) had a great review Saturday night in Stereophile's blog coverage of the show.
Cheers!
-
I could be wrong but.......... aren't those PartsExpress enclosures?
Not that there is something wrong with that (I am using them myself - curved).
Mariusz
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I could be wrong but.......... aren't those PartsExpress enclosures?
Not that there is something wrong with that (I am using them myself - curved).
Mariusz
If you're right, I'll vote you for the A.C 2010 Good Eye Award.
-
Back at the ranch...
Just a few words to thank every one that stopped by...It was great to see many Ac's and meet new faces like John (The Chair Guy - about time), Rim (Woodsyi) and Laura (vinyl_lady)... very much appreciated your kind comments :thumb:
Pez...nice to see you too. I didn't mean to push out the room :lol:
All the best to everyone.
Alex
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Tyson - thanks. I see the MA Bach on lute is in two volumes. I might try one, too. I have an old CD of something similar (perhaps on the Delos label), on guitar, I believe. Here it is.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=paul+galbraith&x=0&y=0
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If you're right, I'll vote you for the A.C 2010 Good Eye Award.
I was already nominated - you obviously haven't look at my avatar. :wink:
And yes, I bet you a bottle those are exactly that.
But like I said - nothing wrong with that. I am aware of at least one other manufacturer who uses stock cabs for his quite successful entry speakers.
Mariusz
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A correction should be noted about the above post. "The Clue" isn't imported, but it's designed and built in Seattle, WA. Seattle native James Croft was at RMAF imparting his crazy audio brilliance to whomever wanted an earful. Here's the link to Sjofn HiFi's store: http://www.sjofnhifi.com/servlet/Categories?category=%28the+clue%29+loudpseakers (http://www.sjofnhifi.com/servlet/Categories?category=%28the+clue%29+loudpseakers)
The Sjofn HiFi room and in particular "the clue" (driven by Supra cables and Hegel electronics) had a great review Saturday night in Stereophile's blog coverage of the show.
Cheers!
Sorry, my bad. I just assumed they are imported because I've bought Supra cables last year from Sjofn Hifi, and have heard Guru speakers several times in the NY metro area. Even the Sjofn Hifi website states: Audio, S/V and Jazz from Sweden.
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One thing I've noticed (or lack of) is that if you are going to cover a show under the badge of "Audiocircles", you might want to pamper those site sponsors that actually pay the bills. I've have notice a rather lack of site sponsor coverage, but rather those that have nothing to do with the Audiocircles.
Just making a point.
Wayner
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Sorry, but there is no reason for anyone to feel obliged to "pamper" anyone. If someone is interested in a specific room, they can always just ask... Thanks... ;)
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The Galibier TT in the Daedalus Audio room was the Stelvio I
I believe that is Wally Malewicz demonstrating his Wallyskater and not Dr. Feickert
Thanks Laura - I didn't take very many notes either.
Wally was so focused on demonstrating his jig I didn't want to interrupt to ask his name.
Wayne
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Sorry, but there is no reason for anyone to feel obliged to "pamper" anyone. If someone is interested in a specific room, they can always just ask... Thanks... ;)
Perhaps the site sponsors have a different opinion.
Wayner
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And perhaps they don't. You're just speculating, whereas I'm making an authoritative statement. If one of them has a problem, then they can contact me directly. Thanks.
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And perhaps they don't. You're just speculating, whereas I'm making an authoritative statement. If one of them has a problem, then they can contact me directly. Thanks.
:notworthy:
As we say at work in my business, it's their sandbox that we play in...
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I think it only fair that site sponsors get at least some coverage. If anyone, Tyson or Pez or who ever is going to cover a show and call it Audiocircle coverage, then I (as a contributing member) expect that every contributing member (manufacturer) get at least fair coverage. While I did enjoy the job the boys did, It was not fair and balanced to those manufacturers that have paid homage to the circles.
Wayner
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I think it only fair that site sponsors get at least some coverage. If anyone, Tyson or Pez or who ever is going to cover a show and call it Audiocircle coverage, then I (as a contributing member) expect that every contributing member (manufacturer) get at least fair coverage. While I did enjoy the job the boys did, It was not fair and balanced to those manufacturers that have paid homage to the circles.
Wayner
But all of the coverage is under RMAF Show and Events that A.C. members have voted for. Right? Important to remember that it's a two way street...without members (buyers) the vendors (you) have nothing.
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The veneer on the Acoustic Zen Crescendo speaker at RMAF is satin Rosewood,same as the pair set up here. We have several new finishes becoming available as well as this beautiful Rosewood... Piano Black, Piano Redwood, and more.. please call 631-848-7455 if you'd like more info...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37396)
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But all of the coverage is under RMAF Show and Events that A.C. members have voted for. Right? Important to remember that it's a two way street...without members (buyers) the vendors (you) have nothing.
And if no one sponsors the Audiocircles, you wouldn't even know when the RMAF was!
-
I think it only fair that site sponsors get at least some coverage. If anyone, Tyson or Pez or who ever is going to cover a show and call it Audiocircle coverage, then I (as a contributing member) expect that every contributing member (manufacturer) get at least fair coverage. While I did enjoy the job the boys did, It was not fair and balanced to those manufacturers that have paid homage to the circles.
Wayner
Thanks for the chuckle from this reader,,, that's one unbelievable outlook you have there. :lol:
Cheers,
Robin
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And if no one sponsors the Audiocircles, you wouldn't even know when the RMAF was!
Really? I guess you should borrow all TAS mags from Frank to see all the ads. :lol:
Yep, without A.C. we're all screwed! Dude, you're funny!!!
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I noticed quite a bit of coverage of the following site sponsors:
AudioKinesis Loudspeakers
Daedalus Audio
Emperical Audio
GR Research
ModWright Instruments
Odyssey Audio
Red Wine Audio
Salk Signature Sound
Selah Audio
Virtue Audio
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I noticed quite a bit of coverage of the following site sponsors:
AudioKinesis Loudspeakers
Daedalus Audio
Emperical Audio
GR Research
ModWright Instruments
Odyssey Audio
Red Wine Audio
Salk Signature Sound
Selah Audio
Virtue Audio
I would also add:
Bryston,
Von Schweikert
There are also RM coverage on the individual manufacturer's circle. I've posted on several of those circles. This thread is really about the entire show, regardless whether a manufacturer has a AC circle or not.
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Wayner, if you don't like the coverage that we (collectively) have worked pretty hard to put up here, you are welcome to do it yourself at the next show. Personally, I think we hit a LOT of AC manufacturers. Is there anyone in particular that we missed that you would liked to have seen?
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Wayner, if you don't like the coverage that we (collectively) have worked pretty hard to put up here, you are welcome to do it yourself at the next show. Personally, I think we hit a LOT of AC manufacturers. Is there anyone in particular that we missed that you would liked to have seen?
:wave: I think I can answer this one....The AVA / Salk room that has had multiple mentions in TAS.
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One thing I've noticed (or lack of) is that if you are going to cover a show under the badge of "Audiocircles", you might want to pamper those site sponsors that actually pay the bills. I've have notice a rather lack of site sponsor coverage, but rather those that have nothing to do with the Audiocircles.
Just making a point.
Wayner
What point are you trying to make? I don't follow. Don't like the coverage, don't read the posts.
-Jim
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I did cover the AVA Salk room in my Saturday post.
-
I think it only fair that site sponsors get at least some coverage. If anyone, Tyson or Pez or who ever is going to cover a show and call it Audiocircle coverage, then I (as a contributing member) expect that every contributing member (manufacturer) get at least fair coverage. While I did enjoy the job the boys did, It was not fair and balanced to those manufacturers that have paid homage to the circles.
Wayner,
No one gets paid for this coverage and we're free to mention and cover who we want. I don't understand the nature of your gripe here :scratch:
Earlier in the opus / topic or in another I mentioned the room I thought best in show...and it happened to be a non-sponsor (as there were many more non sponsors than sponsors at the show this should not be so out-of-the-ordinary).
The runner-up to me happened to be a sponsor (Purity Audio). Sorry, but the AVA room sounded good, but not exceptional. I respect Frank a lot and wanted to like it and I only mildly enjoyed it.
Certainly, his hi-fallutin' claim that his newest Hybrid DAC obsoleting vinyl was not at all in evidence. Competent, yes, but it didn't obsolete vinyl in there :|
Personally, I wanted to avoid overt mention of Audio by van Alstine or any sight sponsor at AudioCircle that I wasn't thrilled with. But, you now asked for coverage of Audio by van Alstine and you've been given it.
In summary: the AVA room (on Friday) sounded competent, not kinetic, exciting or thrilling. I think it was only about $7,500-$8,000 total for all the products listened to - so the reasonable price was considered and was a pittance next to many - but, I heard a couple other rooms with product priced less that was as good to my ears.
Those two rooms happened to be other site sponsors if you feel they've been slighted too...they were Odyssey Audio and Grant Fidelity.
Sorry, but there you have it - my honest and actual appraisal of the AVA room at RMAF 2010.
John
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Actually Purity and Grant are not site sponsors
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Purity is not a site sponsor only because it is a newer company. I have been speaking with my partners regarding this as we find AC to be an exceptional site and I am very interested in possibly getting back to becoming a site sponsor but now with Purity Audio design but this is not a decission I can make on my own any longer. We'll see :D
Now back to our regular scheduled RMAF coverage by Audio Circle members
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The veneer on the Acoustic Zen Crescendo speaker at RMAF is satin Rosewood,same as the pair set up here. We have several new finishes becoming available as well as this beautiful Rosewood... Piano Black, Piano Redwood, and more..
Do you know when their web site will be updated with the additional finishes?
-
One thing I've noticed (or lack of) is that if you are going to cover a show under the badge of "Audiocircles", you might want to pamper those site sponsors that actually pay the bills. I've have notice a rather lack of site sponsor coverage, but rather those that have nothing to do with the Audiocircles.
Just making a point.
Wayner
Overall, I'd agree more of the coverage was for non-sponsors than sponsors, but I read every post and saw what seems like decent (or more than decent) sponsor coverage. :)
The overall coverage here is exceptionally wonderfully fine!
Do you know when their web site will be updated with the additional finishes?
Especially for a floorstander (for various reasons I prefer monitors/multiple subs) I heartily endorse the Crescendo's overall size and proportions; it's a well-balanced look.
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Ok so I thought I could hit everything I wanted to if I just went all day Sunday. I was wrong, boy was I rushing at the end just to hear some rooms for a min or two. :duh: So i'll post the rooms I remember most in about the order I saw them.
Selah Audio
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37416)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37417)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37418)
I first made my way quickly to Rick's room for my first listen of Selah speakers, and boy did it live up to what I was hoping for. Also he was using some of my favorite amps, ICE amps (in the form of Red Dragon here). The RAAL lives up to reputation as just being very very good, the cymbals on my test track sounded like the real thing. The only thing I was missing was the SS revelator woofer which I still think is a better driver than the new illuminator. The pre-amp had a rather cool volume indicator on it; the red circle around what I believe is the on button.
PS Audio
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37413)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37414)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37415)
So I waited about 10 minutes to hear anything in this room as their $3000 disc player choked on a guys DVD audio disc and wasn't ejecting it. :roll: Any ways the girl working the place just let me have the Ipad and use the Perfect Wave Dac and some computer storage to listen to music. Which is good seeing as how that's what I wanted to check out. I have to say it's a pretty sweet music server set up, and thankfully she informed me that a more reasonable $1500 version of this will be coming out soon. And if you're wondering about the sound coming out of those funky looking speakers.......well it was funky, not sure why they would pick those.
AudioKinesis/Neko Audio
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37403)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37404)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37405)
I figured no one else would take a shot of the side set up on Duke's new speaker so I snapped one. This was my first time hearing wave guide speakers, and I've got to say they were pretty good. Tone wise I think they matched anything I heard at the show. I wasn't getting great imaging, I think these guys need a bigger room. In fact I would love to hear them in a larger room.
E.A.R. USA
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37407)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37408)
The curious case of accutron drivers. So after hearing so much about these drivers I had to stop in to hear them for myself. This was the first room to be using them. There was already some one in here listening to a great jazz clarinet track. I was blown away at how good it sounded, then again these cost over $20,000 so they should. The funny part is that for the rest of the day I thought all the other accutron speakers I heard were just ok, not sure what it was about this room that made them sound so great. *puts on flame suit* Also this is the only room where I didn't wonder why the hell any one would spend so much money on a turn table. :nono:
ModWright/Daedalus
My first time hearing either of these companies gear, and wow was it good. I can't really think of any good descriptions other than these sounded right. If I was a two channel guy and not a home theater guy I could easily live with this set up for the rest of my life.
Gamut
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37409)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37410)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37412)
Last year Gamut had their $90,000 S9s in one of the large ballrooms, I felt these where by far the best speakers there. This year they had the more reasonable, "only" $30,000 S5s. So there is one large guy sitting in the room who puts on Money For Nothing and proceeds to play it very very loudly. And once again I think these are my favorite speaker of the show, minus the Vandy 7s, which are the best speaker ever :icon_lol:. After the song is over I start talking to him only to find out it's Lars Goller, yes the man who designed the ScanSpeaker revelator. Not only is this guy super smart but very friendly, and I ended up talking to him for about half an hour. For most of which he explained why the revelator is better than the illuminator and how Tymphany is run by idiots.
DEQX/Legend
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37406)
Not going to say much other than i'm buying two of the DEQX express's for my home theater. This is far and away the best add on ever. It made some rather simple(ok very well made but still simple) speakers compete with any of the super expensive big boys IMHO.
Fritz Speakers
At this point I'm starting to rush to try to hit every thing I wanted to see so I didn't get any pics. Wow Fritz is a great guy first off. He said he loved discovering new music at these shows, well it's a good thing I had my Alex Skolnick Trio track with me, he liked it quite a bit. I have to say I was a bit worried at first seeing a soft dome tweeter and no rounding on the edges of the speaker. Then the music started to play and wow these thing threw the best image and sound stage of the show for me. I could close my eyes the speakers seemed to disappear into the room. However I was still missing some detail due to the soft dome tweeter. While talking to him before leaving he mentioned he has some RAAL lying around that he hadn't gotten to yet. If he brings those next year, his maybe the first room I go to.
Bryston/PMC
So walking down the hallway a few doors down from Fritz's I heard some the best bass i've heard at the show and rushing to this room. PMC has it's FACT 3 and 8 showing and I can't believe how small they are for the bass I just heard. After a few seconds of chit chat I found out the PMC guys are metal heads as well, so they break out their stash of metal CDs. I spend the next few minutes listening to some of the best sound metal i've heard, I mean you can not believe the bass these things put out. Finally they inform me that the 3's are $8000 and the 8's are $10000, this is when I went from thinking about buying these to wondering who the hell was going to buy these things at this price point.
Salk Sound
I finally make my way down stairs to the ball rooms to hear one of my most anticipated speakers of the show; the SoundScape 12s! As some other have said here, something was up with this room. I listen for a while and start to think I recall the Song Towers and HT2's sounding better than this. I know Jim and Dennis wouldn't have spend all this time on a speaker that doesn't sound as good as their lower offerings. So I ran over to the Salk room with the other speakers, and sure enough, to me they sounded better than the SoundScapes. I can't say what was up with that.
Other stuff that I didn't spend that much time on.
The good: Joesph Audio/Ayre
GR Research
Marantz
Von-Schweikert
Vandersteen
Tyler/Plinus
Bamberg Audio
The good but over priced: Wilson
Nola
Focal/Accuphase
JBL Everest
Win/Rockport
Magico
Acapella
The harsh: Zu Audio
YG Acoustics
Revel/Mark Levinson
The just plain bad: Coincident, did any one really like this???
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Other stuff that I didn't spend that much time on.
The good: Joesph Audio/Ayre
GR Research
Marantz
Von-Schweikert
Vandersteen
Tyler/Plinus
Bamberg Audio
The good but over priced: Wilson
Nola
Focal/Accuphase
JBL Everest
Win/Rockport
Magico
Acapella
The harsh: Zu Audio
YG Acoustics
Revel/Mark Levinson
The just plain bad: Coincident, did any one really like this???
I agree with your assessments. And I didn't like the Coincident speakers either. It's so hard to go into a room and you hear the speakers but you are not sure what the other gear is doing to the sound if you have never owned any of it before.
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It was great to meet a few of my fellow AC members.
One day is not enough, especially not Friday (only 6 hours).
Pez and Tyson thanks for getting this thread started. Looks like a lot more activity this year than last! Congrats. I think its a better approach to walk the show as a spectator rather than a journalist :D
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I think it only fair that site sponsors get at least some coverage. If anyone, Tyson or Pez or who ever is going to cover a show and call it Audiocircle coverage, then I (as a contributing member) expect that every contributing member (manufacturer) get at least fair coverage. While I did enjoy the job the boys did, It was not fair and balanced to those manufacturers that have paid homage to the circles.
Wayner
A) Life ain't fair
B) pretty sure these dudes arn't paid or representing audiocircle (if they are I want in)
C) I think AC companies have gotten TOO MUCH coverage. That said, who am I to say what they cover? Just say it, you do not think AVA got the coverage you think it should.
D) Just try giving yourself awards for "Best in Show". It seems to work for others :lol:
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D) Just try giving yourself awards for "Best in Show". It seems to work for others :lol:
:rotflmao: So true...
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5092230380_33882db78b_b.jpg)
From left to right, Nuance (Brandon), Stewart (Stew), Pez (Jason) and Tyson (Tyson)
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A) Life ain't fair
B) pretty sure these dudes arn't paid or representing audiocircle (if they are I want in)
C) I think AC companies have gotten TOO MUCH coverage. That said, who am I to say what they cover? Just say it, you do not think AVA got the coverage you think it should.
D) Just try giving yourself awards for "Best in Show". It seems to work for others :lol:
Have to agree with this. These guys can talk about any speakers they want...they can also say nothing at all, is that any better?
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See last year Tyson and I tried our damnedist to cover ALL the AC manufacturers and still failed. This year we left it up to the people to not only cover what they want when they want, but also to actually be honest and give their opinion about the sound of things (unlike last year when we pussyfooted all over the place and were completely disingeniuous) Now people are angry about lack of coverage of certain things. You know what? Come to the show and STFU. You want an honest opinion that you can trust? Nothing works like your own. I'm just glad to see that, just like Tyson and I, people who attended have opinions (sometimes strong ones!) one way or the other.
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See last year Tyson and I tried our damnedist to cover ALL the AC manufacturers and still failed. This year we left it up to the people to not only cover what they want when they want, but also to actually be honest and give their opinion about the sound of things (unlike last year when we pussyfooted all over the place and were completely disingeniuous) Now people are angry about lack of coverage of certain things. You know what? Come to the show and STFU. You want an honest opinion that you can trust? Nothing works like your own. I'm just glad to see that, just like Tyson and I, people who attended have opinions (sometimes strong ones!) one way or the other.
Well said Jason and thanks to both you and Tyson, among others, for captioned pics.
I decided to be lazy and didn't want to screw around with pictures this year. Plus I'm a very lousy photographer. As you know, it's hard enough getting around to everything you want to see yourself (not for others) without stopping for poses and such. I was more worried about getting a chance in the sweet spot with my demo disc. I know, I'm selfish :wink:
Thank you both again for taking the time and showing candor, like it or not. Well done.
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Pez, you, Tyson, Vinyl Lady, and the rest of the AC crew did a finer job than I could imagine. We who couldn't make it owe you all a huge debt of gratitude.
You could have had a lot more fun just hopping from room to room for your own benefit but instead you gave the reader a great tour of the landscape. Fantastic work, all of you!
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I remember reading here on A.C. somewhere that a member said that the Soundscapes sounded good but he thought that Jim Salk needs to break away from AVA equipment to let his speakers "shine". So there was a review of the room.
I didn't see that, but it sure is funny!
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In the bigger picture isn't giving preferential treatment to advertisers/sponsors exactly the problem with the 'big audio press' in the first place? Their position is so undermined by the perception (fair or not) that advertising $$$ buys
a) exposure
b) positive reviews
c) (maybe) bias against competitors/innovation
that their opinions are suspect right from the start. I find the idea that we as free and voluntary participants on a forum have some sort of obligation to bias and slant our coverage repulsive, and counterproductive to the value of the forum in the long run as well. The value in freely shared opinions and perspectives is precisely that they are honest. If you lose that, AC becomes worthless.
D) Just try giving yourself awards for "Best in Show". It seems to work for others :lol:
Just be sure to do it early and avoid the rush.
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To James and everyone else who was thankful for our participation here it means a lot. All of these members put a lot of time and effort into doing this. It is a lot of work, that quite honestly, I didn't put nearly as much effort into this year because everyone else did such an amazing job.
Pez and Tyson thanks for getting this thread started. Looks like a lot more activity this year than last! Congrats. I think its a better approach to walk the show as a spectator rather than a journalist :D
Agreed, it's better to spectate than to be a journalist. For one, I think there was way more coverage this year dispite the fact that Last year Tyson and I ran around like crazy. For another people were honest, brutally so and that is more important than saying everything was great! It's awesome, nothing else needs to be said.
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I finally make my way down stairs to the ball rooms to hear one of my most anticipated speakers of the show; the SoundScape 12s! As some other have said here, something was up with this room. I listen for a while and start to think I recall the Song Towers and HT2's sounding better than this. I know Jim and Dennis wouldn't have spend all this time on a speaker that doesn't sound as good as their lower offerings. So I ran over to the Salk room with the other speakers, and sure enough, to me they sounded better than the SoundScapes. I can't say what was up with that.
Thanks for calling it as you saw it! I have SoundScapes and have had both the HT1’s and the SongTowers in my room. On a level playing field they do sound a level or two better than the Jim’s older designs to me and all that I have shown them too. I hope you get to hear them again under better conditions. YMMV
Bob
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Whining about the coverage by Tyson, Pez, etc is horseshit. I'm grateful they put in hours of work to share with others who couldn't make it to RMAF. The coverage was great. Why mince words Wayner? You're butthurt over the fact AVA was called
"mid-fi".
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Just chiming in to say a hearty "Thanks" to all of you that attended RMAF and have taken the time and effort to share pics and/or your experiences--for those of us not attending, your efforts are a real positive! :thumb:
My opinion is that anyone attending is free to share whatever they choose to share--I don't see any obligation to favor any RMAF vendor over another, AC sponsor or not--don't know that any AC sponsor paid for the member's expenses in attending the show, correct?; I just appreciate the effort.
I hope to attend RMAF soon, next year if all works out--I'm not sure I'm willing to spend my time at the show doing what so many of these AC'ers have done. A hearty thanks and thumbs up to you all.
Heck, we all know (or at least should know) that all anyone can do is share their opinion--I suggest that not everyone happens to prefer the same type of sound, etc., so we all should take the information we are being given in that way!!
Randy
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While we're having a moment of honesty I'll say this, I thought the Bolder cables Eastern electric modded dac and modded touch was the best source at the show period. Yeah, last year I might not have said that (if your were unaware Wayne and I are friends), but this year I think it's important for people to know the truth bias and all. :P
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Also Lou from Daedalus and I are friends and I thought his room sucked the first day. Days two and three were much better though. :lol:
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Salk Speakers - OK, truth time. Last year I simply hated the Salk room - the combo of bright ribbon tweeter and metal midrange simply drove me out of the room. I didn't say anything at the time because I'm a gentleman. I'm very happy to report that the circular crappy ribbon tweeter has been replaced with a RAAL tweeter this year. This is a SUBSTANTIAL improvement!! For me personally, the SALKS are still not quite my preferred flavor, but the sound did not drive me out of the room. In fact, listening to how coherent and detailed they are from top to bottom, combined with the absoletly STUNNING cabinet work and craftmanship on them, I'd give them the "FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER BARGAIN OF THE SHOW" award. IMO, Salk speakers really need to break away from the mid-fi AVA gear and start showing with true high end gear to really show what they are capable of. I know Jim and Frank are probably friends, but business is business.]
I knew I'd find it.
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I, for one, had never really heard Daedalus speakers before. I had been turned on to them years ago by Double Ugly, and had kept a close watch on their progress. When I heard them in the Gabilier room I was quite disappointed but assumed they were set up incorrectly. Then I visited Lou Hinkle's own suite. He was running MW KWA 150 monoblocks (on top), amps I also own, so I thought I could hear these puppies finally in their majesty. He even used Master Set for speaker alignment/positioning which put them fairly close to the back walls (he was setup east/west in this larger suite). I was still slightly underwhelmed, but enjoyed meeting Lou and seeing for myself that he is both proud yet humble, passionate yet laid back in his approach. Great guy. Now I gotta somehow hear these speakers in their glory...maybe they aren't my cup of tea.
Thanks to Woodsyi, I went over to the much smaller First Sound room. The Ulysses were pulled out 5 ft into the room, acoustic treatment was either minimal or nonexistant, and he was using an AMR cd player and a 30 watt OTL amp (Berning). Hmm..could this work? Emmanuel (founder/designer of First Sound pre) had quite an eclectic set of music for demo, and I thought, what the heck, give the Daedalus's one more try. WOW! If not best sounding room, it was in my top 2-3! The soundstage, imaging, depth, tonality, detail, yadayada was something I expect in my own home, not a corner hotel room. Very impressive, very musical and I could have stayed there all day. Pez went as far as naming the preamp his equipment-of-the-show, and I can't argue (assuming you know the pieces parts well enough to pull out one piece...and he does). The Daedalus's shined. Ulysses is a great name for them; they are large, powerful, and show leadership in speaker design. Well done.
My other comments are in the best of show thread. Overall, great show, great people, great dinners, some new found music, and great discussions. To find a few rooms that played wonderful sounding music...real icing on the cake.
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I got to hear the Bolder/Daedalus room a lot. We even went up to the room after our happy meal on Friday to have private listening session after Modwright amps were put in. The room sounded fine but I was feeling good then. Saturday, something was not quite right. The mid/treble was a bit off making it a bit bright and congested in the middle. Sunday morning, it was good. I walked in the room and ted b. and Quest for Sound was already there. They can confirm what they heard. Everything I heard was balanced and music was really flowing. I asked Lou what change he made. He told me changed the input on the preamp. He had several different inputs on his preamp and the silver one used before was to bright. He changed to all copper input and that was the difference I heard. Sunday morning was the best. One of the best at the show. I am sure Wayne's crossover for the Bow contributed to the sound. His modified EE DAC was sounding really good. But I am an analog guy and I have to tell you the vinyl was really good in this room. The new 7k arm from the French composer Joel worked well. The makeshift Hagerman Trumpet was also doing great. The analog sound was just glorious on Sunday morning. The triangles and cymbals just lingered in the air buffeting your senses in just the right way. :thumb:
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Mid-fi gear? Is that why The Absolute Sound rates us as one of the thirty best values in audio?
Frank Van Alstine
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The Daedalus's shined. Ulysses is a great name for them; they are large, powerful, and show leadership in speaker design.
Just having fun here but in Greek literature, while he is definitely "epic," Ulysses (Odysseus) was short, stout, crafty and a terrible leader -- while he survived thanks to his ingenuity, his men perished :)
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Just having fun here but in Greek literature, while he is definitely "epic," Ulysses (Odysseus) was short, stout, crafty and a terrible leader -- while he survived thanks to his ingenuity, his men perished :)
I know, my youngest son told me the same damn thing! Oh well, horrible name for these speakers Lou!!!! :D
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Okay, after getting home really late because my flight was delayed, I'm sufficiently conscious now to add photos and comments from some rooms I visited on Saturday. Like on Friday's coverage, same :thumb: and :thumb: :thumb: rating for rooms I enjoyed most.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37298)
Vincent electronics feeding Wharfedale speakers. Whafedale is importing speakers again to the U.S.
Decent sound.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37299)
Sjofn HiFi featuring "The Clue," a small monitor speaker which the importer claims the bass can go down to 28 hz on a 3 3/4" mid/bass driver. He demonstrated bass with some bass kick drums cd, which sounded clean and articulate. Overall, "The Clue" produced clean sound, with decent imaging. Show special price: $999 pr. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37300)
JIB cables imported from Germany. This is their top of the line speaker cable. OK sound, but expensive. :thumb: :thumb: Actually, the price is great. 2.5M /pair for less than $1K
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37301)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37302)
Simon Yorke TT S9 Flamenco turntable, CAT signature preamp and amp, Ayre QB9 dac, and Lansche #3 speakers. The sound was organic and smooth, but with nice detail, making it a nice musical experience. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37303)
This is the new Von Schweikert VR 33 speaker. The brouchure states: "For the first time ever, own a $15,000 speaker for only $3,750." It's a bold statement, but you listen and be the judge. To my ears, the system produced a nice tonal balance, and was very listenable. :thumb: The other Von Schweirkert room with the VR 35 speaker also sounded very nice.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37304)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37305)
Roger Sanders electronics and electrostatic speaker. This system produced a broad soundstage, with fast transients and punchy bass. Roger set up his speakers diagonally in the room because he found the soundstaging work best that way. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37306)
YG Acoustic speakers. If you like a nice Hifi sound, then you'll like these.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37307)
Bryston electronics and PMC speakers - Nice balanced sound with good but not etched detail. The PMC speaker is the IB2. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37308)
Thor Audio electronics and CD Duevel 'Bella Luna Diamante' omni-directional speakers. The speakers are imported from Germany. This system's sound grabs your attention. If you want a more laid back presentation, get something else. Sound was extremely clean but not harsh, and lightning fast. The soundstage presentation was large and a bit forward, while image specificity was a little vague, which is fairly common with omni-directional speakers. :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37309)
Onedof turntable. This is a beautifully made TT, and the sound was quite nice.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37310)
deHavilland electronics and Sonist speakers. This was one of my favorite rooms last year, and it is again this year. Excellent sonics, regardless of price! :thumb: :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37311)
Modwright electronics and Daedulus speakers. Another fine sounding room. Tonality was superbly balanced, and resolution was good but not etched. In the photo, Dan Wright is telling me about the mods made to the OppO BDP-83 DVD player. Both the OppO and a Sony cd player uses 2 6SN7 tubes as part of the mods. :thumb: :thumb:
Sunday's coverage in a little while.
Paul Mah
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post coverage. I have been to RMAF twice and was not able to attend this year. As the opening date grew nearer, I really wished I could be there and checked this cirlce half a dozen times each day looking for the the latest updates. Thanks, again.
As for you guys with the hurt feelings, just get over it. Audio gear and our perceptions of what we hear and think we hear are subjective, fickled, quirky and so BS-saturated that I just walk away from it sometimes. Let your ears be your guide and you will never be lost.
As for Mr. Van Alstine, I hope you are big enough to ignore the negativity above. I've never heard your stuff but I recommend that you keep doing excactly what you are doing. You apparently are selling a lot of gear and making a lot of people happy. Isn't that the whole point?
Charles
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Mid-fi gear? Is that why The Absolute Sound rates us as one of the thirty best values in audio?
Frank Van Alstine
Frank,
Clearly, you shoot for a higher standard for 40 years...this was an off-the-cuff remark from a passionate audiophile. It may have been his/her honest opinion - probably just not entirely accurate to state this.
We're all guilty of saying flippant things once in a while - yourself included. Hang tuff :thumb:
Nice to have met you, finally.
John
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Paul, I really love your ratings ... :D
Okay, this is my favorite rooms list from the three days:
Fritzspeakers and ModWright electronics room. :thumb:
Audio Physic speakers and Trigon electronics room. :thumb:
LessLoss room. :thumb:
Sjofn Hifi - "The Clue" speaker room. :thumb:
Simon Yorke, CAT, Ayre, Lansche room. :thumb:
Von Schweikert VR33 and VR35 rooms. :thumb:
Sanders electronics and electrostatics room. :thumb:
Bryston electronics and PMC speakers room. :thumb:
Thor electronics and CD Deuvel speakers room. :thumb:
Rogue electronics and Tel cables room. :thumb:
AudoKinesis speaker and Neko Dac room. :thumb:
GR Research, Dodd Audio, db Labs room. :thumb: :thumb:
Xact audio, Allnic audio, Hammertone audio, Reed tonearm room. :thumb: :thumb:
ModWright electronics, Daedalus speakers room. :thumb: :thumb:
deHavilland electronics, Sonist speakers room. :thumb: :thumb:
Joseph Audio Pulsar speaker room. :thumb: :thumb:
Linkwitz/Orion room. :thumb: :thumb: This was my favorite room.
Read my earlier comments on these rooms for sound impressions.
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Its amazing that we equate things to certain level of 'whatever'
1. Tubes = warm, hot so they must sound very warm and tubey, elegant etc.
2. Digital - cold, harsh , on and off, bits so this equates to hard, harsh, solid state sound etc not so elegant.
3. low dollar stuff = crappy, not audiophile
4. high dollar stuff = WOW, great sound, audiophile.
5. 14 ga wire from Home Depot = Crappola sound
6. 6" diameter cables for $2000 or more = Golly Gee it sounds AWESOME!
7. Metal speaker cones = metallic sounding, brittle sound, digital like...
8. Soft speaker cones = Soft sound, nice sound, wonderful sound, warm like tubes
9. Audio Gear < $1000 = lo-fi, mid-fi or NO-fi?
10. Audio gear >$1000 = Hi-Fi ????
I could go on and on...and I am really laughing here...are we human beings so gullible??
and yes I am human as well!!
What a wonderful pastime!!
All the best
Alex
:D
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What do you mean by 'we', Kimosabae? :o
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Its amazing that we equate things to certain level of 'whatever'
....2. Digital - cold, harsh , on and off, bits so this equates to hard, harsh, solid state sound etc not so elegant....
It's so obvious, so very obvious, it doesn't even need to be said, but I'll say it anyway...those little pointy ends to the "bits" have very very sharp edges, leading, obviously, to that "digital" sound effect, every single time. It's an inherent flaw.
...I could go on and on...and I am really laughing here...are we human beings so gullible??
and yes I am human as well!!
What a wonderful pastime!!
All the best
Alex
:D
Roger, that!
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I will add my thanks as well for the coverage. Thank you for giving the facts as you see them and for taking a few shots because you were not diplomatic enough. :thumb:
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I have been in RMAF since the beginning and even when I was a site sponsor, I always enjoyed the coverage of the event as a whole. I think the title says it all. AC members covering RMAF for all to see.
I enjoy the feedback providing by AC members on the overall show as not everyone can make it there and even those who attended are not able to visit every room.
I wish I was able to listen to more rooms but did get around to a few of the AC based manufacturers and enjoyed meeting them all.
It was a pleasure to meet in person and even hang out with a few of the AC based manufacturers as well as those who are known here.
Danny - GR research
Jim Salk and his wife - Salk Sound
Albert VonSchweikert - (only got to the VR33 room but did meet up with Cor)
John - Bent Audio
Hugh - Angle City Audio
Mr and Mrs. Ninja
Dan - ModWright
Lou - Daedalus Audio
Wayne - Bolder Cable
I wish I could have gotten around to all of them.
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I took very few photos and finally have some time and restored internet to post a few.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37456)
The units woodsyi DIDN'T purchase from Bill. They are beautiful. Much more substantial in person than photos relay. A really nice sounding room although too dark to see anything in there guys.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37457)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37459)
I really enjoyed these JBL's with the vertical midrange horn and the horizontal tweeter horn molded into the same subassembly. I was in here twice and the first time they were playing a Spanish Flamenco song and the heel pounding was very realistic. Almost scary realistic. Impressive amounts of bass as well. See woodsyi's feet?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37458)
Those JBL's were driven by the Audio Valve preamp that was on my short list a month ago. Very sexy and well built.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37460)
Analog folks - how'd you miss this? Probably better question is how I found this.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37461)
Mike Garner (tweekgeek) had this soon-to-be-released Synergistic research 4 outlet Tesla box out for viewing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37462)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37463)
Bamboo enclosure, carbon fiber baffle, ribbon tweeters, and barbecue grill - what else could you ask for?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37464)
A color in my future.....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37465)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37466)
The First Sound preamp in with Daedalus speakers and one of top 5 rooms. One of these pre's is on sale on Audiogon right now.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37468)
I loved these Kaiser speakers. Filled the room with sound. In my top 5, maybe even #2. $60,000 and made from 30 mm of Ironwood compressed at 2000 psi and injected with resin under that pressure. Dense? Uh-huh!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37469)
I thought these Audio Physics sounded very good for the money. I sat through 2 tunes cuz it was nice and I was tired.
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Hey Occam...well I guess there has to be at least one person that really knows the truth!!
James, I have had a USB attached digital bit scrubber made in China in line in my system since the late 1980's. If I unhook it the cats in the neighborhood start this 'God" awful wailing sound...maybe they know something as well??
I could not make RMAF, I lost my job this year, and I am in the ranks of the underemployed now, but I join djano11 in thanking everyone for all the pictures and what I would call your opinions as you state them, facts??? well i dont prescribe to things made of metal that move air necseesailry sound metallic!! I will ask the cats later..
Smile
Alex
:D
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Hey Pete,
I did not miss it. He said he bought it at a garage sale for 30 cents and it sounds great
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37470)
Nice to meet you and chat a bit.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37459)
I really enjoyed these JBL's with the vertical midrange horn and the horizontal tweeter horn molded into the same subassembly. I was in here twice and the first time they were playing a Spanish Flamenco song and the heel pounding was very realistic. Almost scary realistic. Impressive amounts of bass as well. See woodsyi's feet? Yeah, but it doesn't look like he's doing the Flamenco stomp. :lol:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37460)
Analog folks - how'd you miss this? Probably better question is how I found this. Did you and Laura fight for the same Lp?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37469)
I thought these Audio Physics sounded very good for the money. I sat through 2 tunes cuz it was nice and I was tired. It was one of my favorite rooms also, very natural, tonally balanced and smooth ss sound.
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I could be wrong but.......... aren't those PartsExpress enclosures?
Not that there is something wrong with that (I am using them myself - curved).
Mariusz
Mariusz,
You are at least partly correct, in that the production enclosures used for (the clue) are being sourced from the same supplier that builds the Parts Express boxes. They are substantially modified relative to the standard PE units, including additional measures to reduce acoustic radiation from the cabinet walls and internal standing waves, but share the same nice veneers and finish that we liked on the PE cabs.
So, I think you should still qualify for your A.C 2010 Good Eye Award.
Cheers,
Jim Croft
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I found some loose notes in the back pocket of my pants. Here goes:
Canton Speakers - Bright and very hifi sounding. They are probably the biggest speaker sellers in Germany. I heard Cantons at several European audio shows in the 1990s and they sounded similar. I thought they may have changed their philosophy, but no luck.
Nola Speakers - I had heard some great things about this brand. Even though they are in my neck of the woods (L.I.), I had never heard any of their models until now. At the show, the sound was...bland. I even went back to the room a couple of times to make sure the problem wasn't the music. Each time, different music and it was still...bland. I would like to hear them again in a different environment.
Wilson Sophia III speakers - I actually enjoyed this model. It was smooth, with nice natural detail and not bombastic like other Wilson models I've heard in the past. I was invited to the home of a friend of a friend last week and heard the Sohia III there for the first time. I heard the same sonic qualities there as I did at the show, even with different electronics. It is the first Wilson speaker I've heard in 20+ years that I liked. :thumb:
Vandersteen 7s - When I was in the room, the sound was lean, like most of the mid-range was sucked out. It could have been the music playing. But last year at RM, I thought the Vandersteen 7 room was over-damped, and music had no life to it. A boring sound. I heard the 7s one other time at a dealer, still didn't rock my boat. I would still like to hear them sing, but so far no luck.
Please add these comments to my previous reportage for an overall show report. That's it until next year. Cheers.
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AudioKinesis/Neko Audio
I figured no one else would take a shot of the side set up on Duke's new speaker so I snapped one. This was my first time hearing wave guide speakers, and I've got to say they were pretty good. Tone wise I think they matched anything I heard at the show. I wasn't getting great imaging, I think these guys need a bigger room. In fact I would love to hear them in a larger room.
Yeah, we actually moved them into a larger room after closing time on Sunday and they worked a lot better there.
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The units woodsyi DIDN'T purchase from Bill. They are beautiful. Much more substantial in person than photos relay. A really nice sounding room although too dark to see anything in there guys.
Hi Big Red,
Sorry about the lighting but we usually lit the room based on what those sitting in the chairs wanted. There were many that commented that it was a very relaxing room with the lights down low and the music not so load as to run people out of the room. There were times when we had someone sitting and relaxing for a half an hour and then came back again later in the day. Then there was a younger couple that sat down an listened for about 15 minutes tapping their feet and hollding hand the whole time. I did get a little nervous considering we were in a hotel room. :o
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Agree with ltr317 an all counts.
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I went to the show in Montreal the last two years and my lasting impression was amazement at just how much of this incredibly expensive stuff didn't sound very good...
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Mariusz,
You are at least partly correct, in that the production enclosures used for (the clue) are being sourced from the same supplier that builds the Parts Express boxes. They are substantially modified relative to the standard PE units, including additional measures to reduce acoustic radiation from the cabinet walls and internal standing waves, but share the same nice veneers and finish that we liked on the PE cabs.
So, I think you should still qualify for your A.C 2010 Good Eye Award.
Cheers,
Jim Croft
Hello Jim
First of all, welcome to Audio Circle. :thumb:
Now, as far as the cabs origin/quality is concern....... If outsourcing the cabinets helps in keeping the costs down... by all means, go for it. Those cabinets are not only very well made but look & feel good as well.
Extra bracing and steps taken to lower the cabinet's coloration is certainly welcomed. Your speakers (and room) were one of the most memorable moments of the SHOW several years ago in NYC (I think it was Hilton).
Congratulation for what appears to be another "home run"!!!!! :beer:
......and appreciate the award. :wink:
Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:
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Hi Tyson, just some thoughts on what was happening in the Daedelus room. First off, the MA-1s have no worries driving 5 or 6 ohms. The speaker/amp interface was not the issue. There was a ground loop in the crossover that took some doing to overcome, and on one of the evenings we had that sorted out.
As far as I can tell, the big issue was that the MA-1s overloaded the Furman power conditioner in the room, and despite my insistence that they be plugged into the wall, it never happened. That's a lot of power to go through one power cord (running the entire system!) and one conditioner. We showed with Furman the first time they ever came to CES, and the guy wrote the book on what is important in power line conditioning when he worked at Fluke instruments (one of these days I will put his white paper on line...).
Anyway, the MA-1s could not get decent power and they went right to sleep. I'd say over the last 6 months we spent more time and energy on this room than all of the rooms we have ever done at any show put together, and for naught. But the one thing it was **not** was a speaker/amp incompatibility. Anyone who does these shows a lot knows how important the setup is, and paying attention to important details. Unfortunately, I was not allowed the input that I would have liked to have in this room. So I agree with you on the results.
I have been traveling and this is the first chance I've had to see some of these comments. I won't go into details but Atmasphere input was invited and we wish there was more. at the initial setup thursday they were plugged into the Furman BUT on friday they were in the UberBuss... so no current limiting there. bottom line is that something wasn't right with the used amps that were provided and they were not up to the performance of a new, show ready pair for whatever reason... as for Wayne's crossover, that unit is excellent and dead silent with the Gill audio pre, the hum was an unfortunate mystery.
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I went to the show in Montreal the last two years and my lasting impression was amazement at just how much of this incredibly expensive stuff didn't sound very good...
For those that think it should be easy to place your reference home system in a strange hotel with hundreds of other compnents turned on the same power grid, needs to try it sometime. I went to about 25 CES shows in my lifetime, got a splitting headache every time. I guess I complained every time I went, also.
I took my homre reference system, that I have spent months tweaking, not 24 hours or so, down to LSAF in May and was going to show up everyone. I just knew this was a going to be a piece of cake.
Guess what? It wasn't. At home, I have an incredinle smoothness, soundstage, and depth. At the hotel it was harsh and pretty much a flat soundstage. I was embarrassed to let anyone in my room because of the bad sound. What a 180 degree turn-around.
Finally, someone loaned me a battery supply and a much better version of my amp and the sound started keying in. I was happy for people to hear my system again. But no matter what I tried, in that hotel suite, the system only sounded about 60% of what it actually sounds at my house.
And that was a small show. On the hotel power grid you have your swimming pool, health spa, and all the other guests running their electric at the same time. Then at the bigger shows you have all the other companies running their equipment. Frankly, I now believe it is a miracle for any room and system that will sound good.
High kudos for those that do. :thumb:
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Ozark, that is a killer point. Last house was a tract built in '68 in congested Sonoma County CA, now this gorgeous joint in north Utah built in '07, about 100 homes in a gated community, with new dedicated 20A line installed just for audio when they built the house. I am absolutely convinced the PS here improves the performance. I have never tried and have no desire or inclination to try a PS gizmo of any kind.
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Hi Big Red,
Sorry about the lighting but we usually lit the room based on what those sitting in the chairs wanted. There were many that commented that it was a very relaxing room with the lights down low and the music not so load as to run people out of the room. There were times when we had someone sitting and relaxing for a half an hour and then came back again later in the day. Then there was a younger couple that sat down an listened for about 15 minutes tapping their feet and hollding hand the whole time. I did get a little nervous considering we were in a hotel room. :o
No worries Bill. A dark room for old guys like me makes it hard to approach the gear and snoop for fear of stepping on something. As mentioned it sounded great and I hope you cut me a check on the sale to woodsyi as I hyped your product consistently throughout our stay together!
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For those that think it should be easy to place your reference home system in a strange hotel with hundreds of other compnents turned on the same power grid, needs to try it sometime. I went to about 25 CES shows in my lifetime, got a splitting headache every time. I guess I complained every time I went, also.
I took my homre reference system, that I have spent months tweaking, not 24 hours or so, down to LSAF in May and was going to show up everyone. I just knew this was a going to be a piece of cake.
Guess what? It wasn't. At home, I have an incredinle smoothness, soundstage, and depth. At the hotel it was harsh and pretty much a flat soundstage. I was embarrassed to let anyone in my room because of the bad sound. What a 180 degree turn-around.
Finally, someone loaned me a battery supply and a much netter version of my amp and the sound started keying in. I was happy for people to hear my system again. But no matter what I tried, in that hotel suite, the system only sounded about 60% of what it actually sounds at my house.
And that was a small show. On the hotel power grid you have your swimming pool, health spa, and all the other guests running their electric at the same time. Then at the bigger shows you have all the other companies running their equipment. Frankly, I now believe it is a miracle for any room and system that will sound good.
High kudos for those that do. :thumb:
Your comments and those of the Atmasphere developer (in another thread) are totally in synch and makes a very good point about bad juice in an over-taxed hotel system does not a great environment make.
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Your comments and those of the Atmasphere developer (in another thread) are totally in synch and makes a very good point about bad juice in an over-taxed hotel system does not a great environment make.
I have been to a few CES shows where certain floors had no power at all. I guess those floors way over-taxed the hotel system.
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I wonder what the hotel electric bill goes up for three days...it's actually amazing that the hotel has that much service available.
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I wonder what the hotel electric bill goes up for three days...it's actually amazing that the hotel has that much service available.
That's a great idea - next year we'll ask the electrician to give us a look at the meters and show us what's going on. Between amps puling amps and A/C pulling amps - wow.
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That's a great idea - next year we'll ask the electrician to give us a look at the meters and show us what's going on. Between amps puling amps and A/C pulling amps - wow.
don't forget those elevators. They have a huge draw as well. And all the lights.
It's amazing really.
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Marjorie acually had electricians come into the Marriott to make sure the grid was up to the task. It would be interesting to see what their electric bill is for the time of the show. :duh:
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It went real smooth this year comparing to last time. :)
Morning Bill.
Marjorie acually had electricians come into the Marriott to make sure the grid was up to the task. It would be interesting to see what their electric bill is for the time of the show. :duh:
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Yes, somewhere I remember reading about Marjorie's comments about bringing AC specialists in to make sure the hotel grid would handle it. I think that article may have even speculated on load, etc. I'll try to find it.
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Whatever the bill, I'm sure they can afford to pay it. Trade shows are hugely profitable.
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Whatever the bill, I'm sure they can afford to pay it. Trade shows are hugely profitable.
You really think so? I think about emptying all those rooms. I wonder what the margin really is after Marjorie pays them. The overhead before, during and after the show is got to be pretty big.
I love thinking about numbers. :D
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My first time trip to RMAF. Photos and some commentary here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Got-camera-first-timers-trip-RMAF (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Got-camera-first-timers-trip-RMAF)
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Scot,
Hey. Welcome to AC (I know you've posted a little about an SACD player, but thought I'd welcome you nonetheless). :thumb:
Scot is a regular member of the CA forum threads and it was a pleasure meeting him and other CA folks at RMAF.
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The popularity of RMAF exceeded my expectations, my websites bandwidth limit has been exceeded. I'm working on moving the photos to another site with more bandwidth.
Thanks guys. :)
Wayne
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Whatever the bill, I'm sure they can afford to pay it. Trade shows are hugely profitable.
No comment re. trade shows in general, unknown and unknowable, all privately held institutions with absolutely no obligation to publish profits. You can easily make conclusions by the fact that certain show venues repeat annually. There is the fact that the Chicago summer CES once was and now is not.
IIRC (someone else can confirm) the sum total paid RMAF employee is one. All else are volunteers being the CO audiophile club that started it. The rooms are pretty affordable vs. THE Show, and a freebie compared to CES. The apparent tradeoff vs. THE Show (for vendors) is less foot traffic (I think), but the traffic is dedicated stereo nuts compared to a certain percentage of THE Show aimed at HT/video.
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In the Selah audio room right now listening to some very interesting stuff great overall sound and very nice given that they are not the big giant speakers like every other room.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5085260368_ef9e4e257b.jpg)
Let me first introduce myself. My name is Dragan Solaja and I am the owner Solaja Audio. I come from Serbia and this is my third appearance at the RMAF (2008,2009,2010). The first time sign up here. As I read you liked the sound of RAAL, Selah Audio, Solaja Audio room. I just want to say that I have presented two preamplifiers. First day and the second half of the second day was played vacuum tube preamplifier SA-R (white) and half on the second and third day, he played a passive preamplifier SA-TVC1 (black). I hope that a good sound has to do with my preamplifiers. All the best.
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Scot,
Hey. Welcome to AC (I know you've posted a little about an SACD player, but thought I'd welcome you nonetheless). :thumb:
Scot is a regular member of the CA forum threads and it was a pleasure meeting him and other CA folks at RMAF.
Hi Ted! Likewise -- a pleasure to meet you too!
I don't get over here much, which is a shame. Another problem to rectify!
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Hi Dragan and welcome to Audio Circle. Hope your [long] drive to Chicago didn't scare you too much :wink: It was great meeting and hanging out with you and the rest of the crew. I have to find out what they put in the water in Serbia :rotflmao:
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Hi Dragan and welcome to Audio Circle. Hope your [long] drive to Chicago didn't scare you too much :wink: It was great meeting and hanging out with you and the rest of the crew. I have to find out what they put in the water in Serbia :rotflmao:
Thanks guys from Purity Audio Design. I want to thank you for the generous technical assistance and welcoming. Thanks to the loan unballance to ballance adapter. The drive to Chicago was exciting and I was not scared. I hope that we will see next year. Your room was one of my favorites. Just keep the good work.
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Hi Dragan and welcome to Audio Circle. Hope your [long] drive to Chicago didn't scare you too much :wink: It was great meeting and hanging out with you and the rest of the crew. I have to find out what they put in the water in Serbia :rotflmao:
60% Grappa, 20% Slivovitz, 19% Vodka and 1% of pure water :wink: :lol:
Welcome to Audio Circle :thumb:
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bottom line is that something wasn't right with the used amps that were provided and they were not up to the performance of a new, show ready pair for whatever reason... as for Wayne's crossover, that unit is excellent and dead silent with the Gill audio pre, the hum was an unfortunate mystery.
I can't agree with either of these statements, as the amps were rebuilt to Mk3.1 status and have a new warranty. I had advised Lou to try using Thom Makris' M-60s, as they were on the same speaker in the same type of suite one floor above, and Lou had said to me that he knew that they sounded fine. IOW, apply some scientific principle and see if the amps really were at fault or not, rather than basing it on assumption. That comparison never occurred; the simple fact of the matter is that while the system with the MA-1s did not work to his satisfaction, the reason why remains unknown. However, based on my experience with our product, its unlikely that the amps would have worked with any power conditioner in the vicinity, which is quite common with MA-1s! See my prior post and also a separate thread in the tube forum regarding this subject. I regret that I was not more insistent on this subject at the time.
While Wayne's crossover does sound quite nice, the simple fact is that it was built with an AC ground loop, which will manifest with preamplifiers that are 'properly grounded' into the wall. I use the quotes because what we are talking about here is the ability to meet UL requirements and CE directives, and such practice runs counter to what is good for audio. In fact I have run into a good number of high end audio manufacturers that ignore these practices, which exist for safety reasons only. Since we do ship worldwide, our gear is built to meet these specs. If you have equipment like this crossover that are built without these issues in mind, buzz will result. It is possible to build the equipment in such a way that the CE and UL directives are met, without audible degradation, but in doing so it may well be incompatible with equipment that ignores such practice.
FWIW, since the preamp is the heart of the system, that is the only unit that can be hard grounded into the wall, wherein not only the chassis but the circuitry share the same ground. If succeeding components in the chain also get a ground, you have your ground loop. We separate the circuit ground from the chassis ground by a 100 ohm resistor in our amps, which is a bit conservative; I noticed that ARC for example uses about 10 ohms to successfully do the same thing. For any unit other than the preamp, this is one means that will do the grounds properly, although it is not the only method, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses. But is should be dealt with, especially if international shipping is going to occur.
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No comment re. trade shows in general, unknown and unknowable, all privately held institutions with absolutely no obligation to publish profits. You can easily make conclusions by the fact that certain show venues repeat annually. There is the fact that the Chicago summer CES once was and now is not.
IIRC (someone else can confirm) the sum total paid RMAF employee is one. All else are volunteers being the CO audiophile club that started it. The rooms are pretty affordable vs. THE Show, and a freebie compared to CES. The apparent tradeoff vs. THE Show (for vendors) is less foot traffic (I think), but the traffic is dedicated stereo nuts compared to a certain percentage of THE Show aimed at HT/video.
I am one of the CAS (Colorado Audio Society) members/volunteers and can say that there are a lot more expenses than just paying the hotel. I don't know how much the Marriott is paid but it must be enough as a contract through 2013 was recently inked, so it would seem they like the business. I suspect the bar and restaurant revenues are pretty high for those days as well.
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60% Grappa, 20% Slivovitz, 19% Vodka and 1% of pure water :wink: :lol:
Welcome to Audio Circle :thumb:
Thank you all for welcome. I will send you our secret ingredient, or better carry with me next year.
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60% Grappa, 20% Slivovitz, 19% Vodka and 1% of pure water :wink: :lol:
Welcome to Audio Circle :thumb:
I went to the liquor store by the Marriot, no slivovitz, no soika, nada, zilch :cry:
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I went to the liquor store by the Marriot, no slivovitz, no soika, nada, zilch :cry:
you can't buy first 2 in your regular liquor store . Balkans make their own stuff homemade. Slivovitz is not my thing but grappa........ well :wink:
Tried it once or twice - it is really GOOD!
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the amps were rebuilt to Mk3.1 status and have a new warranty.
I would gladly use them at my house. :green:
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you can't buy first 2 in your regular liquor store . Balkans make their own stuff homemade. Slivovitz is not my thing but grappa........ well :wink:
Tried it once or twice - it is really GOOD!
Is youse implying that any Brooklyn liquor store ain't a regular liquor store? :lol:
Grappa, it must be an acquired taste... I was in Pietrasanta, visiting a friend's family, and was honored when 'Papa' shared his prized grappa with me (none for the women). OMG, a reasonable Slivovitz is VSOP in comparison. YMMV
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Thankyou all for the photos and descriptions. We couldn't attend this year but I feel like I did. BRAVO!
charles
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Anyone see/hear these?...
(http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/images/stories/igallery/daily_coverage___october_17/large/gallo.jpg)
Anthony Gallo Acoustics was getting big sound from a small package -- their specialty these days.
The Classico III loudspeaker ($2000 per pair) stands only 26.5" high, but the company was quick to point out that this speaker is not designed to be placed on a stand.
It features two 6" carbon-fiber woofers and a CDT tweeter in a two-way configuration. (http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_igallery&view=gallery&id=22&Itemid=206)
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Dang Barry...I missed the Gallo room.
$2000 a pair :o I love the old Linaeum tweeter sound...the CDT is likely from the same designer under license. http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/aero/aero.html
I didn't hear them...but wish I had time now that you point this out :(
John
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I was talking to Anthony Gallo outside for a while about his room. He mentioned this new little floor stander was sounding better in the room than his regular design. I didn't get a chance to hear them but others mentioned they sounded really nice. Especially for their cost.
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Yes, I heard those Gallos. They were very nice; physically a bit short for me (felt like they needed stands but Gallo said no) but did a nice job; frankly I liked the sound better than the 3.1's. We heard some uncompressed 2 channel Elvis masters (some early gospel stuff) and it sounded great.
Edit: Bill beat me to it. Glad I felt the same way as designer. :)
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Dang Barry...I missed the Gallo room.
$2000 a pair :o I love the old Linaeum tweeter sound...the CDT is likely from the same designer under license. http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/aero/aero.html
John,
The CDT is Anthony's own design, no and iso-dynamic as in the Linaeum, but uses a peizo-electric plastic membrane, I believe Kynar.
Sorry I missed you at RMAF,
Paul
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Yes, I heard those Gallos. They were very nice; physically a bit short for me (felt like they needed stands but Gallo said no) but did a nice job; frankly I liked the sound better than the 3.1's. We heard some uncompressed 2 channel Elvis masters (some early gospel stuff) and it sounded great.
Edit: Bill beat me to it. Glad I felt the same way as designer. :)
Sweet - thanks, folks. I own Linaeum Towers (only 30" tall measured at the top of the top-mounted Linaeum tweeter). Including the $200 on Craiglist (they were first made in 1997)...I have about $400 into them with mods :icon_lol:
Cheap, wonky black veneer on this thing, I realize - a bit of an eyesore, but they play really well. The 6" driver is a Peerless India unit (from GR Research); it was a drop in replacement for the original Peerless on the speaker.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=12344)
Somehow, at least in this small listening space 10 x 15'....they've dusted several more expensive speakers traipsed in here trying to replace them the past ~ 7 years. I haven't tried for a couple years now
They're just great speakers for small places. I've got a Gallo TR-1 subwoofer( another overperformer for the price) to bolster bottom octaves.
Just what the audio doctor prescribed I think...a set of Classico's in my future :thumb:
John
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Marjorie acually had electricians come into the Marriott to make sure the grid was up to the task. It would be interesting to see what their electric bill is for the time of the show. :duh:
I was worried about the 110 V powernetwork when I made plans to design the Music System sitting at my desk in Holland so far away from Denver. After I arrived I made a quick test on the power on thursday before I started to built the system.
The power was OK for the big KR tubes since they like the juice when the music asks.
Next day when the amps in all rooms suck the network the KR tubes were still going OK. So we decided to use no powercleaner and put the plug right into the wall.
Even the EERA CD-player went well on this way and the system gave us some real music. I am used to 'do' at lot of shows in Europe but the RMAF has real good power, no stress and very fast.
Good job Marjorie ! Thumbs up for the Power Guys&Girls.
Regards from Holland,
Cor Dekker
Musical Reality
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37509)
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I am one of the CAS (Colorado Audio Society) members/volunteers and can say that there are a lot more expenses than just paying the hotel. I don't know how much the Marriott is paid but it must be enough as a contract through 2013 was recently inked, so it would seem they like the business. I suspect the bar and restaurant revenues are pretty high for those days as well.
As long as the Mariott doesn't track me down for bringing bourbon to serve in the room, all is good.
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A belated thank you to Pez, Tyson, Vinyl_Lady, Big Red Machine, Ted_B, Socrates_7 and all of the other AC members who contributed what is obviously considerable time and effort in bringing the latest RMAF into our homes!! :thumb:
I have really enjoyed reading through this thread. The pictures have been great as well as the commentary. Thanks again.
Randy
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Really...Thanks a lot guys and gals!!! :thumb:
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Let me first introduce myself. My name is Dragan Solaja and I am the owner Solaja Audio. I come from Serbia and this is my third appearance at the RMAF (2008,2009,2010). The first time sign up here. As I read you liked the sound of RAAL, Selah Audio, Solaja Audio room. I just want to say that I have presented two preamplifiers. First day and the second half of the second day was played vacuum tube preamplifier SA-R (white) and half on the second and third day, he played a passive preamplifier SA-TVC1 (black). I hope that a good sound has to do with my preamplifiers. All the best.
Dragan, I really liked the Selah/Solaja/Response room. Since I hadn't heard anything in the room before except the amps I can't really give a good review of your pre. It's hard enough for me in a system I know to tell the differences between high end pres :lol: I will say I can tell the SA-TVC1 did no wrong and has the best, IMHO, volume indicator i've seen on a pre.
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the appreciation, it really, really means a lot to me (and I'm sure all the other contributors). It's a lot of work, but it's also very rewarding!
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the appreciation, it really, really means a lot to me (and I'm sure all the other contributors). It's a lot of work, but it's also very rewarding!
+1 The feedback and appreciation is appreciated on this end. It was fun. Next year I'll bring a steno pad so I can take some notes and not rely on my 62 year old brain cells. I think I left too many of them in the 60s & 70s :lol:
It was great meeting Ted, Pete, John, Paul, Klaus, Alex, Bill, Dave, Danny, Tyson, Duke, Fritz, Emmanual, renewing acquaintences with Jason, Wayne, Wayne, Olu, Mark, Frank, Dan, Rim, Lou, Jody, Terri Lynn and many others. It was a great show and I had a blast :thumb: Thanks to all the exhibitors and most of all, THANKS to Marjorie, Terri Lynn and all the CAS volunteers who help make RMAF the best audio show in the world :thumb: :thumb:
Laura
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Likewise Laura, it was an absolute pleasure meeting you and talking with you over the 3 days of RMAF!
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Next year I'll bring a steno pad so I can take some notes and not rely on my 62 year old brain cells. I think I left too many of them in the 60s & 70s :lol:
I know what you mean Laura, I have photos of rooms I don't even remember visiting. A little trick I used this year was to write my comments on the manufacturer's brochure. Next year I'll bring a Sharpie because pens don't write very well on the glossy surface.
Wayne
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Dragan, I really liked the Selah/Solaja/Response room. Since I hadn't heard anything in the room before except the amps I can't really give a good review of your pre. It's hard enough for me in a system I know to tell the differences between high end pres :lol: I will say I can tell the SA-TVC1 did no wrong and has the best, IMHO, volume indicator i've seen on a pre.
It is difficult to evaluate one component in a system that first heard. I know that the SA-TVC1 very neutral and does not add and does not take away anything. And I agree that it is an indicator of volume interesting. I hope there will be an opportunity to learn more about my products
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Morning Dragan,
Glad to see you here.
It's great to have met you.
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Next year I'll bring a steno pad so I can take some notes and not rely on my 62 year old brain cells.
I finally remembered to buy a small notebook this year, very handy. About the size of a 3x5 card, fit nicely in the back pocket and some stubby little pens to go with it. As for lost brain cells... where did I put those???
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As for lost brain cells... where did I put those???
They're up in smoke, Mike...up in smoke. 8)
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Morning Dragan,
Glad to see you here.
It's great to have met you.
Thank you Hugh,pleasure is on my side.
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Maybe this link can help.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60935.100
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i yust wanted to thank each & every one who posted comments and pics about their experiences. it's been 15 years since i have been to an audio show, and i feel like i have yust been to another! :thumb:
wery appreciated, since i am now stuck in latvia on a difficult project. been here about eight weeks, and may be here thru the rest of the year. reading these pages has been a welcome diwersion.
at least i was able to get my company to ship me over a little rig, for some cdc listening, and local fm radio, which is actually quite nice - long live fm! :green: philips 22ah105 tuna and korsun u2 integrated amp are 220v, so no woltage conwersion needed. the nad cdp arrived non-working, so i found a decent jvc cdp on ebay.de which set me back $8, plus ~$30 shipping. now, its a complete 220v rig! :lol: and, the tv that resided where the li'l rig is located, is now safely in the closet where it belongs. 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37688)
regards to everyone for their hard work,
doug s.,
have tunes, will travel
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Doug,
Enjoy your stay and have a safe journey home.
At least your company didn't just send you an iPod and headphones. :icon_lol:
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wery appreciated, since i am now stuck in latvia on a difficult project.
doug s.,
have tunes, will travel
Are you in Riga?
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ya, i am in riga. seems like a nice city & country, but unfortunately work is a bit overwhelming. and what little free time i have is not that fun, due to the fact that i don't know anyone, and i am not all that keen on wenturing out alone. but i am getting by.
the fact that my company agreed to ship me some of my gear of my own choosing has also made things better. i must admit that they did think i was a bit off - oh well, what else is new? if they knew i enjoyed reading 22 pages of rmaf coverage, they would really wonder... :green:
doug s.
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Just to let you all know.... I took over 500 pictures at the show.... I hit almost every room..... Now the question is, where can I put theses pics up so you all can browse them ;)? I have not finished reading through the thread yet..... Once I do that I can work on the pics...
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I use photobucket.com
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Yes, but does photobucket use your images for there own purposes, or can you create direct links only? I could put the pics on my site, but it might get overloaded....
I use photobucket.com
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/5092230380_33882db78b_b.jpg)
From left to right, Nuance (Brandon), Stewart (Stew), Pez (Jason) and Tyson (Tyson)
Ah to put a face to the name, I definitely saw a few of you there. I think Jason was in one of the rooms I was in, probably the Salk room.
This is a pic of myself and family in case I talked to any of you and didn't know it, hah.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/taoggniklat/Adalyn/38838_449324420900_640195900_6708338_1998368_n.jpg)
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More pictures:
http://live.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/ces.pl?&&RoomList&FM&&&&&&RMF10
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Oh yeah! You have the super cute daughter! You are a braver man than I. I told my wife to take the baby and go out of town so I didn't have any extra stuff to worry about, just the show. :green: Your wife is a saint to carry you daughter around in that chest harness the entire show. :o
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Yes, but does photobucket use your images for there own purposes, or can you create direct links only? I could put the pics on my site, but it might get overloaded....
You could just put them in your gallery here. Admittedly the upload interface is not the best, but there won't be a bandwidth problem...
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More pictures:
http://live.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/ces.pl?&&RoomList&FM&&&&&&RMF10
Not only photos....but sound samples as well.... 8)
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+1 The feedback and appreciation is appreciated on this end. It was fun. Next year I'll bring a steno pad so I can take some notes and not rely on my 62 year old brain cells. I think I left too many of them in the 60s & 70s :lol:
It was great meeting Ted, Pete, John, Paul, Klaus, Alex, Bill, Dave, Danny, Tyson, Duke, Fritz, Emmanual, renewing acquaintences with Jason, Wayne, Wayne, Olu, Mark, Frank, Dan, Rim, Lou, Jody, Terri Lynn and many others. It was a great show and I had a blast :thumb: Thanks to all the exhibitors and most of all, THANKS to Marjorie, Terri Lynn and all the CAS volunteers who help make RMAF the best audio show in the world :thumb: :thumb:
Laura
Laura, it really was a great time. Too bad that we were so busy having fun that we didn't have enough time to have fun. I hope to be able to sit down with new friends as well as old next time, but... who knows.
Once again, great meeting you, Pete and all of the ones whose names I can't remember. :scratch:
:thumb:
<><
Dave
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Oh yeah! You have the super cute daughter! You are a braver man than I. I told my wife to take the baby and go out of town so I didn't have any extra stuff to worry about, just the show. :green: Your wife is a saint to carry you daughter around in that chest harness the entire show. :o
Well She had never been to an event like this and I wanted her to just get a glimpse of the world of audio. She actually enjoyed it even tho she was apprehensive about going. It actually was kind of nice to have her with me. She of course did not have any bias or knowledge of the brands so to her each room was a blank canvas...and she was able to share her first impressions, which I found refreshing.
I don't know if she will go next year as it is really "not her thing" but at least she understands my obsession with quality sound now. :)
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That's great that she is willing to go along with you. I always tell my single friends "every man has his BS, whether it's golf, Star Trek, or audiophilia. It's not important that your S.O. embraces your BS, it's just important that she gives you the latitude to enjoy it." Seems you've got one like that. 8)
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Well She had never been to an event like this and I wanted her to just get a glimpse of the world of audio. She actually enjoyed it even tho she was apprehensive about going. It actually was kind of nice to have her with me. She of course did not have any bias or knowledge of the brands so to her each room was a blank canvas...and she was able to share her first impressions, which I found refreshing.
I don't know if she will go next year as it is really "not her thing" but at least she understands my obsession with quality sound now. :)
I think I remember seeing you three. I thought to myself "How cool is that!" You are a blessed man. I am, too. My wife enjoys my hobby/obsession/career as much as I.
Dave
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So, was there no showing of Manley Labs @ this years RMAF??? If not, I wonder why... Just nothing new to show?
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So, was there no showing of Manley Labs @ this years RMAF??? If not, I wonder why... Just nothing new to show?
Not sure about new product intros but, I saw EveAnna at the recent SF AES. Maybe they just wanted to save some $$. There are so many trade shows, marketing folks have to choose carefully which ones to attend.
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The butcher-block speakers with the Scan woofs and the RAAL are hand-made (no CNC) by 'Bogdan' www.bogdanaudiocreations.com.
Sounded quite good, but pricey. The larger speakers are apparently $17k, but I'm not sure what the ones pictured go for.