[Early B.]

And one defense of high priced cables is:Money. If you got it, why should some poor slob who does not have any..matter to you? Does the naysayer go around condemning $250,000 jewelry as it 'is not better; than costum jewelry? Is the Ferrari really just the same as a Ford Focus? After all the both get you from A to B.

Yep. And most dissenters aren't heavily invested in a high end audio system. Rarely do you run across someone who has a $20K system complain about other audiophiles who paid too much.

The big challenge with audio is you gotta be open minded and try different stuff out all of the time to see if it works for you. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. That requires constant buying and selling until you reach a saturation point. This process could take many years. Some naysayers aren't willing to invest the time and money to do this, so they have to justify it to themselves by vehemently expressing their lack of knowledge and experience. 

[jea48]

LOL 'Jr', you quote my post and then clearly show with your post that you either didn't read mine or have no comprehension ability ........

go back and read it again for I said that a difference can in fact occur !

As for 'practical hands on experience' with respect to receptacles, yes I do and I clearly understand their need....... simply an electro-mechanical connection between two pieces of 'wire' with a function of maintaining voltage / current through their connection.

As for the hubbell duplex, I agree and that's what I've been using for many years.

LOL,Jr... 

Well older than dirt fart, lol, maybe I miss understood your post. Lets break it down.


"I think what a lot of you are missing here is a lot of us 'dissenters' as you call us are not going to say cabling can't make a difference (it can), rather it's some of the ludicrous claims made not only by the manufacturer but by some of the end users as well. Spending some of the absurd amounts of money for receptacles , IC's, speaker wire and power cords (70k for MIT top of the line speaker cables as an example) just proves that insanity is not confined to those already locked up in an institution !


"I think what a lot of you are missing here is a lot of us 'dissenters' as you call us are not going to say cabling can't make a difference (it can), rather it's some of the ludicrous claims made not only by the manufacturer but by some of the end users as well.

Well you put yourself in the same camp as a being among the 'dissenters' but then you go on to counter-dict yourself. So is you is or is you ain't?


"Spending some of the absurd amounts of money for receptacles ,"

Who are you to say the price of an outlet is absurd? Nobody is twisting your arm to buy one, are they? Are you jealous that someone else might have the disposable income to buy one if they so choose? How about the guy spends $100K or $200K on an audio system? Do you have a problem with that too? 

You have a good day old fart. Thanks for the compliment of calling me Jr.

[Early B.]

A woman who gets a face lift and loses a few pounds is the same woman she was before.  But the reaction to her has changed.   Sometimes getting something that is simply better made gives the audiophile a better feeling about what he hears.  No science needed.  Satisfaction of ownership of having something better made effects sound quality in that way.   

And this is perfectly fine, but it's also scientific. Lots of studies have been done on this. Remember -- audio is a perceptual and emotional endeavor. In fact, a significant amount of the cost associated with building high end audio is purely aesthetics. 

[Genez]

The problem is that nobody here has any proof.  A listening test isn't proof, that's called an opinion as it's not being done scientifically whatsoever.  That's fact.

That is what self righteous scientists who want to control other peoples lives will tell you.  The Beatles were rejected by some record companies until someone with the ears for talent went with them.  It was always there.   Some things?  We can hear for ourselves.

Science is not to tell us we are imagining things because they have not found the means to explain what is going on. That's a form of tyranny.... When audio is for the hearing.

If an amplifier with a higher level of a certain measured distortion sounds superior to another component with lower distortion in that area?  And,  science can only make assumptions based on things known to measure?   Where does that leave you? 

I can remember back in the 70's all the frustrating BS I had to endure when the measurements came out to show me that my tube amp should not sound as good as a more powerful SS Crown amp. The scientific measurements won.  But, my ears determined the real winner.

Science can becomes hated by those who have ears to hear.  Be careful not to alienate people from science with self righteousness.   After all... its science that has given us GMO foods. Careful.  Science is a means. Its not intrinsically a virtue in itself as some seem to think.

[twitch54]

LOL,Jr... 

Well older than dirt fart, lol, maybe I miss understood your post. Lets break it down.


"I think what a lot of you are missing here is a lot of us 'dissenters' as you call us are not going to say cabling can't make a difference (it can), rather it's some of the ludicrous claims made not only by the manufacturer but by some of the end users as well. Spending some of the absurd amounts of money for receptacles , IC's, speaker wire and power cords (70k for MIT top of the line speaker cables as an example) just proves that insanity is not confined to those already locked up in an institution !


"I think what a lot of you are missing here is a lot of us 'dissenters' as you call us are not going to say cabling can't make a difference (it can), rather it's some of the ludicrous claims made not only by the manufacturer but by some of the end users as well.

Well you put yourself in the same camp as a being among the 'dissenters' but then you go on to counter-dict yourself. So is you is or is you ain't?


"Spending some of the absurd amounts of money for receptacles ,"

Who are you to say the price of an outlet is absurd? Nobody is twisting your arm to buy one, are they? Are you jealous that someone else might have the disposable income to buy one if they so choose? How about the guy spends $100K or $200K on an audio system? Do you have a problem with that too? 

You have a good day old fart. Thanks for the compliment of calling me Jr.

100k for an audio system, hell that's just 'middle of the road' !

as for the 'Jr' .......check out below your jea48 !

with respect to 'dissenter', yeah I thinks it's nuts to buy an expensive duplex and expect it to need to burn in (pure BS) for 400 hrs. and them expect to hear a difference ? Given the subtle difference that could possibly be heard there is no way one could discern that with a 400 hr gap in time !

[Genez]

And this is perfectly fine, but it's also scientific. Lots of studies have been done on this. Remember -- audio is a perceptual and emotional endeavor. In fact, a significant amount of the cost associated with building high end audio is purely aesthetics.

Dam!  lol!   There is even a science to make everything appear to be under the governance of science?

Can science explain why someone paints as an artist, and another artist finds himself playing a musical instrument? 

Science is a tool.   Not everything.  Just because a scientist expresses his opinion,  does not make what he claims to be scientific... though he may try to make it sound that way.  In some cases intuition is superior to science. But it takes knowledge gained from science at times before the intuition is manifested.  And, many things were invented in the lab by mistakes made. 

Science can measure hormone levels when someone kisses another they love.  But, the love/desire must precede the kiss.

Why do we love music?    Can science measure the reason why not all people love music?  Or measure why some love jazz?  Classical? 

Science in the hands of an egomaniac is a dangerous tool.    Envious scientists can build rationales to try to destroy the happiness of those they envy.  Can science measure why some people have much envy, and others do not?

Science is a tool.  Not a master.  A very helpful tool ..as long as it does not try to become your master.  It becomes a secular religion for the domination of men when science does not end up being seen as a tool.  My ears hear better sound. 

[Genez]

100k for an audio system, hell that's just 'middle of the road' !

as for the 'Jr' .......check out below your jea48 !

with respect to 'dissenter', yeah I thinks it's nuts to buy an expensive duplex and expect it to need to burn in (pure BS) for 400 hrs. and them expect to hear a difference ? Given the subtle difference that could possibly be heard there is no way one could discern that with a 400 hr gap in time !

There are poor people in this world who can not afford the system you have.   Should you be denied because they can not afford it? 

Some audio manufacturers make equipment for very wealthy people as well. It would be stupid not to.   But, buyer beware.  Because some wealthy are the ones that can easily be sold BS... because the pampered ones are too lazy to study the hobby and only think the most expensive must be the best.   Let them lose, and have their delusion.  You find what will make you happy and not worry about what you do not have.  Unethical marketing preys on the thought that we think we do not have the best. And,  some wealthy people love being envied.  C'est la vie!

[DaveC113]

Science is a tool.  Not a master.  A very helpful tool ..as long as it does not try to become your master.  It becomes a secular religion for the domination of men when science does not end up being seen as a tool. 

+1, Science becomes just like religion for the dogmatic and closed-minded who usually fancy themselves "experts".

[Early B.]

Dam!  lol!   There is even a science to make everything appear to be under the governance of science?

Can science explain why someone paints as an artist, and another artist finds himself playing a musical instrument? 

Science is a tool.   Not everything.  Just because a scientist expresses his opinion,  does not make what he claims to be scientific... though he may try to make it sound that way.  In some cases intuition is superior to science. But it takes knowledge gained from science at times before the intuition is manifested.  And, many things were invented in the lab by mistakes made. 

Science can measure hormone levels when someone kisses another they love.  But, the love/desire must precede the kiss.

Why do we love music?    Can science measure the reason why not all people love music?  Or measure why some love jazz?  Classical? 

Science in the hands of an egomaniac is a dangerous tool.    Envious scientists can build rationales to try to destroy the happiness of those they envy.  Can science measure why some people have much envy, and others do not?

Science is a tool.  Not a master.  A very helpful tool ..as long as it does not try to become your master.  It becomes a secular religion for the domination of men when science does not end up being seen as a tool.  My ears hear better sound.

Science simply means, "to know." Science is based on facts, reasoning and experimentation. In audio, the concept of "science" is fraught with difficulties because audio is largely subjective. Nevertheless, there's an experimentation element in audio that's critical to getting the best sound. So I listen to people on this forum who have more experience in experimenting than I do such as DaveC113. That's how I discovered the value of using high end receptacles. And it doesn't take 400 hours of burn-in to figure it out. If the improvements aren't immediate or take only a few hours to hear, I move on.

[twitch54]

There are poor people in this world who can not afford the system you have.   

give me their addresses I'll send them one ! ............

seriously though, I was just being a 'smart azz' ! But in the world of 'high end' audio, 100k is in fact 'middle of the road' these days !

[Genez]

give me their addresses I'll send them one ! ............

seriously though, I was just being a 'smart azz' ! But in the world of 'high end' audio, 100k is in fact 'middle of the road' these days !

I try to buy used when I can... Two reasons.   Already burned in.  And, being sold for what I can afford.

And,  some of the smartest audiophiles I have had contact with are wealthy.  They are the movers that will cause us to benefit ten years after they do, as the technology finally trickles down to us.

So, there is a balance.

[A_shah]

100k for an audio system, hell that's just 'middle of the road' !

as for the 'Jr' .......check out below your jea48 !

with respect to 'dissenter', yeah I thinks it's nuts to buy an expensive duplex and expect it to need to burn in (pure BS) for 400 hrs. and them expect to hear a difference ? Given the subtle difference that could possibly be heard there is no way one could discern that with a 400 hr gap in time !

Any one who believes that it takes 400 hours for a outlet to burn in, to hear the sound quality is not an audiophile ,but a  hobbyist !

[sebrof]

Seeking user experiences. Most claim that there is a "burn in" period (100 to 400 hrs) for AC receptacles, a sonic roller-coaster during that period if you will. Usually starts off somewhat muffled and veiled...then it starts to open up. Bass fills in etc etc.

Has anyone experienced somewhat the reverse? Starts off somewhat aggressive and brightish....gets progressively brightish whilst opening up...then it settles down...gets more musical, fuller and more relaxed/smooth especially in the upper mids on up.

I have the Furutech GTX D (g). Your experiences on any brand would be most welcomed as well. Thanks.

I have an opinion on whether or not anyone can hear a new outlet vs. a burned-in outlet, but I didn't post because clearly the OP was looking for people with experience.
Obviously the OP believes he has heard his outlet's sound change as it breaks in.

There are thousands of opportunities on the internet to give opinions when it wasn't asked for or wanted. My question is, "Why bother?"

[jea48]

100k for an audio system, hell that's just 'middle of the road' !

as for the 'Jr' .......check out below your jea48 !

with respect to 'dissenter', yeah I thinks it's nuts to buy an expensive duplex and expect it to need to burn in (pure BS) for 400 hrs. and them expect to hear a difference ? Given the subtle difference that could possibly be heard there is no way one could discern that with a 400 hr gap in time !

as for the 'Jr' .......check out below your jea48 !

LOL, measured by the number of posts on this forum.   You're kidding right.
My is bigger than yours. I registered here on AC before you did, jr.

with respect to 'dissenter', yeah I thinks it's nuts to buy an expensive duplex and expect it to need to burn in (pure BS) for 400 hrs.

Says you.
400 hours was an arbitrary number, but if you had taken anytime to research the Furutech GTX R outlet you would have found those that bought them said it takes for ever to burn-in the Rhodium plated current carrying contacts. And yes some reported several hundred hours. One reason many said to pay the extra few bucks to have them burned-in by the retail seller.

Takes a long, long, long, long time.
https://www.google.com/#q=how+many+hours+does+it+take+to+burn-in+a+Furutech+GTX+R+outlet?

 

[Genez]

Depending upon the utility company the sound of my system can be changed several times a day.   It may also depend on what the streaming channel is sending out at any given time of day.  Its not burning in when the differences can be heard.  But, differences can be heard.

Burning in can be heard.   But not on all components.   I placed a modest audiophile fuse in a preamp the other day and there was "instant burn in."  (it sounded better).

Interconnects,,, power cords.... and mostly components will reveal burning in. Some do not take as long as others.  One new component simply needed to be left on over night and the sound changed in a beautiful way. Cold out of the box I was wondering if I had made a mistake.

The biggest evidence was with speakers.   Its not just mechanical what is happening when breaking in, but its a major part of it.  For I have replaced internal wiring with already broken in speakers and heard the new cables burning in for a while.

Science will finally figure it out someday...

Probably at the time that someone will have invented a way to play portions of air in our rooms instead of speakers. 

 (just don't walk into that zone!  Keep cats and dogs away when playing!)     

[twitch54]

400 hours was an arbitrary number, but if you had taken anytime to research the Furutech GTX R outlet you would have found those that bought them said it takes for ever to burn the Rhodium plated current carrying contacts in. And yes some reported several hundred hours. One reason many said to pay the extra few bucks to have them burned-in by the retail seller.

Takes a long, long, long, long time.
https://www.google.com/#q=how+many+hours+does+it+take+to+burn-in+a+Furutech+GTX+R+outlet?

enjoy your 'Kool Aid' !! ........

[Genez]

Says you.
400 hours was an arbitrary number, but if you had taken anytime to research the Furutech GTX R outlet you would have found those that bought them said it takes for ever to burn the Rhodium plated current carrying contacts in. And yes some reported several hundred hours. One reason many said to pay the extra few bucks to have them burned-in by the retail seller.

Takes a long, long, long, long time.
https://www.google.com/#q=how+many+hours+does+it+take+to+burn-in+a+Furutech+GTX+R+outlet?

Keep in mind. To burn in an outlet for 400 hours it only means having something plugged in for about 16 days.  Leave your equipment on 24/7?  @24 hours in a day?  Just over two weeks.   Right?  Not long at all....   (400 hours in perspective)

[zoom25]

Keep in mind. To burn in an outlet for 400 hours it only means having something plugged in for about 16 days.  Leave your equipment on 24/7?  @24 hours in a day?  Just over two weeks.   Right?  Not long at all....   (400 hours in perspective)

That's what I did during that period and normally do. I leave my gear on 24/7. The converters, computer, transports/players, Class D amps.

[twitch54]

I have no clue how a listener after 100 to 400 hours, could weed out the small change in sound from a receptacle with so many uncontrolled variables causing large changes.

LOL, I decided to read this old thread for a laugh, you are so right ! 'receptacle burn in' ........now I've heard it all !!

[Genez]

LOL, I decided to read this old thread for a laugh, you are so right ! 'receptacle burn in' ........now I've heard it all !!

Apparently....  you can not hear it at all.   

If your system allows you to hear the burn in process, sometimes a new receptacle will need some burn in.  I believe someday a scientist will learn what takes place on the microscopic atomic level.   I am right now burning in a new piece of equipment and its sound has changed very noticeably over the last four days of constantly being turned on.  And, my NuPrime ST-10 amp sounded not so good out of the box.   But leaving it on for a few days changed its sound considerably. 

I wonder why some do hear what takes place, and others do not.  The only way to find out, would be to see how they have their systems set up.  That might solve this controversy. 

I have had systems where I would not have heard equipment burning in.  I am wondering if that may be the case for the naysayers.