[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
Have a look at the link below,
that speaker’s specs look to good to be true,
what do you think?
http://www.brentworth.com/type3.htm

Guy 13

[JLM]

Suspicious, yes.  Impressive (hard to swallow) specs, no new info on a quick search in the past 6 years, and what's there lacks explanation/detail.

Of course all things audio, frankly/especially concerning this end of the pool (high efficiency/wide-bandwidth drivers and SETs), are full of exaggerations.

[GT Audio Works]

20hz to 20khz and 102db from two 158mm drivers in a "normal" looking enclosure.
Tough to accomplish ,,but not impossible.
The web site does not say much about the drivers it employs, other than the need for low mass...
I would add high efficiency and low resonant frequency to the list. A custom unit I would imagine.
The drivers are used full range no crossover, wired direct to the amp...my personal favorite.
It goes on the explain the use of some low frequency response shaping in the upstream electronics chain.
Other companies have gone this route...Merlin comes to mind. Who happens to be based in the same general area of New York state.
Wonder if these guys travel in the same circles ?
The site goes on to explain the use of a unique enclosure loading....I quote..."The technology has been termed Dynamic Loading System (DLS) and refers to the Enclosure’s ability, through an intricate line and valve system to load the driver at low frequencies while simultaneously unloading the driver at higher frequencies. The effect is that low frequencies are coupled to the room with massive amounts of air, thereby negating the necessity for large and uncontrollable woofers (producing bass in this manner is directly analogous to a bass violin creating bass from the relatively small vibrations of a string). At the same time, the driver remains almost completely unrestrained to reproduce high frequencies."
If its anything like a Transmission line I can attest to the bass capability of small driver of the proper low resonance in such an enclosure.

There has been a lot of snake oil sold over the years and folks have reason to be skeptical, but I would not write anyone off on just the numbers. If this speaker performs as promised I am sure there is some proprietary design that he dos not want to reveal. A catch 22 I am well aware of. When you go down the road less traveled and offer something different and better to the customer you want to tell them all about it, but you don't want to reveal secrets that you invested a lot of time , money , and sweat to uncover.

People in this hobby get hung up on the numbers. Personally I don't think they serve much of a purpose to most folks other than to perpetuate feelings of insecurity about their purchase.
Just because a Lamborghini may be .2 sec quicker in the quarter mile than a Ferarri...is it a better car ?
Which one puts a bigger smile on your face on a twisty road on a beautiful day..That's the question.    Greg

[Danny Richie]

102db from two 6.5" driver and a -3db of 20Hz? Nope!

Another problem with running two or more full range drivers with no crossover is that you will have a tremendous amount of comb filtering. So as the listening height changes a few inches up or down the time alignment of the drivers change and cause out of phase cancellations. Just a few inches up from the on axis will cause 15db dips and 6db peaks int he response. The peaks and dips will also move around and swap locations as the vertical off axis moves further. Not a good idea.

[Davey]

102db from two 6.5" driver and a -3db of 20Hz? Nope!

Why not?  As Greg noted, there is electronic equalization utilized and probably some form ("DSL") of a transmission line enclosure.  The claim seems plausible to me.

Also, no claims are made for vertical polar performance in the specs or technical info.  Maybe he doesn't consider this aspect of the design as high on his technical objectives as you would.

Cheers,

Dave.

[Danny Richie]

Why not?  As Greg noted, there is electronic equalization utilized and probably some form ("DSL") of a transmission line enclosure.  The claim seems plausible to me.

Also, no claims are made for vertical polar performance in the specs or technical info.  Maybe he doesn't consider this aspect of the design as high on his technical objectives as you would.

Cheers,

Dave.

If some form of gain or boost is added electronically then it is possible. Passively, nope.

And it is possible that one might find a measuring height that would yield an as advertised +/-3db range, but it would be a very small spot. Any up or down movement would not yield those results. Yeah, I guess swings in the response greater than 20db would be an issue to me, but maybe not to the designer. 

[WC]

These speakers don't seem to pass the smell test. I am skeptical of the claims. Single drivers can't do everything. Interested in what drivers they are using since I am not aware of any 6.5" full range drivers coming close to 102 dB sensitivity. While 6.5" drivers can get down to close to 20Hz, it usually requires a very large enclosure, which these don't appear to be. 

[Davey]

If some form of gain or boost is added electronically then it is possible. Passively, nope.

Obviously.  But the website specifically states this is a line-level EQ'd system.

WC,

Since two drivers are used a transducer sensitivity of 96db would be required to achieve the claim.  (I've seen a number of drivers that are in that range.)  Some of the newer Neo drivers are fairly high efficiency.  Here's just one that I can think of off the top of my head.

https://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-344

Anyways, it seems pretty silly to comment on the capabilities of this system without bothering to read the information on their website.

Cheers,

Dave.
 

[BobRex]

Art Dudley reviewed these years ago in Listener.  He tried real hard to be nice, but in the end he couldn't.  The specs are truly overblown, and apparently they didn't sound that good either!

[GT Audio Works]

Art Dudley reviewed these years ago in Listener.  He tried real hard to be nice, but in the end he couldn't.  The specs are truly overblown, and apparently they didn't sound that good either!

If these were listened to objectively, that's one thing..I just wanted to stress whatever the numbers say..nothing should be ruled out until given a fair shot. If he is telling tales..then buyer beware...Greg

[doorman]

I would take any reviewers comments with a large grain of salt too.
Because Mr. Dudley's review may have been unfavourable, doesn't
necessarily make it so---
Still, one would be wise to approach these claims with a healthy dose of scepticism!
Don

[Danny Richie]

Obviously.  But the website specifically states this is a line-level EQ'd system.

Anyways, it seems pretty silly to comment on the capabilities of this system without bothering to read the information on their website.

Silly me. I only went to the page that a link was posted to, and there was nothing mentioned there about a line level EQ system. But a  20Hz - 20kHz +/- 3db was listed. 

[WC]

Obviously.  But the website specifically states this is a line-level EQ'd system.

WC,

Since two drivers are used a transducer sensitivity of 96db would be required to achieve the claim.  (I've seen a number of drivers that are in that range.)  Some of the newer Neo drivers are fairly high efficiency.  Here's just one that I can think of off the top of my head.

https://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-344

Anyways, it seems pretty silly to comment on the capabilities of this system without bothering to read the information on their website.

Cheers,

Dave.

I did read the info. I just didn't agree with it. If they had mentioned  96-98 dB sensitivity, I may not have had an issue with it. To make a single driver or a pair of them do 20 - 20K at a high efficiency I guess is possible, but I'm not sure it is one that I would want to listen to. Would be interested to see how flat of a profile you get. EQ could help make it sound better.

[JLM]

How many really "bad" reviews have you read?  (I can only recall one and it was for a extended range driver based speaker.)  Plus Danny's point about all that comb filtering.  And that all that snake oil mumbo-jumbo in the description don't have a good smell.

EQ in the right cabinet might generate these numbers but the ultimate output would have to suffer severely.

It they did everything promised wouldn't there be some evidence of at least a degree of acceptance (sales, good reviews)?  Not saying that being a speaker genius is a guarantee of success, but nothing in 6 years? 

[GT Audio Works]

I would take any reviewers comments with a large grain of salt too.
Because Mr. Dudley's review may have been unfavourable, doesn't
necessarily make it so---
Still, one would be wise to approach these claims with a healthy dose of scepticism!
Don

Absolutely...

[GT Audio Works]

It they did everything promised wouldn't there be some evidence of at least a degree of acceptance (sales, good reviews)?  Not saying that being a speaker genius is a guarantee of success, but nothing in 6 years?

There is a dealer listed in upstate NY..North Country Audio..Don't know much else about them.

[FullRangeMan]

Pro audio drivers can do this kind of hi spl and hi power and the sound quality is not good.

[roadkingraw]

Any body remember the old Klipsch Horn speakers.  High SPL out of a horn and single driver.  Sounded like dookey though!

[FullRangeMan]

Any body remember the old Klipsch Horn speakers.  High SPL out of a horn and single driver.  Sounded like dookey though!

It was the plastic horns, that material made a duck timbre on the music.
A wood horn or acrylic would do better sound.
Seems it is a 3 way system.
http://www.klipsch.com/klipschorn-floorstanding-speaker

[JLM]

Any body remember the old Klipsch Horn speakers.  High SPL out of a horn and single driver.  Sounded like dookey though!

K-horns, for all their glory, and using two sides of the room for the last horn folds, were only rated down to 40 Hz.  They were designed for use with tubes (the design is so old that was all that was available).  They were so efficient that early solid state amps (that became very popular were a poor match).  The solid state amps had high distortion at low output, and gobs more output than the K-horns needed, and almost no useful volume control range.

Yes, they are a 3-way, all horn design.

Agreed, plastic/metal horns sound horrible, wood (anything inert and really thick) makes better sounding horns.  (The the real downfall of the K-horn, besides the rarity of SETs, is the relatively thin/flexible walls of the bass horn.)