Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole

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glynnw

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Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« on: 28 Oct 2012, 06:05 pm »
I am considering trying to add a Neo3 to  my open baffles.  The literature on your site says their sensitivity is 96 but is lower when used in a dipole configuration.  Is it more than 2 or 3 db lower?   My current full range Fostex drivers are listed at 96, but I am sure that rating isn't for dipole usage.  I can easily pad them down a bit, but obviously would like to avoid that if doable.

Danny Richie

Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #1 on: 28 Oct 2012, 08:43 pm »
I am considering trying to add a Neo3 to  my open baffles.  The literature on your site says their sensitivity is 96 but is lower when used in a dipole configuration.  Is it more than 2 or 3 db lower?   My current full range Fostex drivers are listed at 96, but I am sure that rating isn't for dipole usage.  I can easily pad them down a bit, but obviously would like to avoid that if doable.

What happens in an open baffle configuration is that the Neo tweeter looses output in the lower ranges. The top end is virtually unchanged.

The biggest mistake typically when adding a tweeter to a full range driver is letting the full range driver play full bandwidth with no crossover and trying to supplement the top end with a tweeter using a low order network. This typically ruins the response as the comb filtering effects of the short wavelengths ALWAYS cause 15db dips and 6db peaks across the top end.

And as good as some of those full range drivers are the Neo's really outperform them from 2kHz or so and up.

Use a well designed network and cross the Neo's in no higher than 2.5kHz and it will work great. 

glynnw

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Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #2 on: 28 Oct 2012, 10:04 pm »
It's that "well designed network" that is difficult for me.  I really appreciate the advice - I was going to do just what you said not to do. I will order a pair and play with them.

Danny Richie

Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #3 on: 29 Oct 2012, 12:19 am »
When adding a tweeter to a full range driver you can also move the tweeter forward or back less than an inch and cause response swings of 10 to 15db. If you take enough measurements moving the tweeter back and forth and the mic height up and down then you can find a spot where they are in phase, but everywhere outside that spot the comb filtering effects will really disrupt the response. Typically the total in room  response is much worse with the tweeter.

However you can have very good success adding a little air and space to the imaging and not disrupt the response by aiming the tweeter up and sealing the back of it.

glynnw

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Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #4 on: 29 Oct 2012, 01:47 am »
In aiming it up and sealing the back to add a little air (which is my goal - I love the overall sound I am currently getting) do I still crossover at 2500? Currently my response at my seat extends to about 12K and then slowly drops.

Danny Richie

Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #5 on: 29 Oct 2012, 01:40 pm »
In aiming it up and sealing the back to add a little air (which is my goal - I love the overall sound I am currently getting) do I still crossover at 2500? Currently my response at my seat extends to about 12K and then slowly drops.

Aiming the tweeter up doesn't effect the response of the full range driver. So you still run it full range. You can then play with a small cap value on the tweeter and or an inline resistor to adjust the level. It will pick up the in room response above 12kHz without changing the on axis response.

glynnw

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Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #6 on: 29 Oct 2012, 03:50 pm »
Sweet!  Thanks - I look forward to playing with them.

glynnw

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Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #7 on: 30 Oct 2012, 08:32 pm »
Received the Neo3 tweeters today - very fast shipping, thanks.   Glue is drying on the rear cups now. One more question - by aiming them up do you mean straight up ?  I am using wood to mount them and don't want to have to keep recutting at different angles to experiment (so I'm lazy).  If straight forward is 0 degrees and straight up is 90 degrees, what do you suggest?  I plan on using a 1 uF cap to start with and try a few values (so I am not completely lazy).

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Danny Richie

Re: Question about Neo3 sensitivity when used as dipole
« Reply #8 on: 30 Oct 2012, 08:49 pm »
Received the Neo3 tweeters today - very fast shipping, thanks.   Glue is drying on the rear cups now. One more question - by aiming them up do you mean straight up ?  I am using wood to mount them and don't want to have to keep recutting at different angles to experiment (so I'm lazy).  If straight forward is 0 degrees and straight up is 90 degrees, what do you suggest?  I plan on using a 1 uF cap to start with and try a few values (so I am not completely lazy).

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Straight up and a 1uF cap value is a good starting point too.