AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: steve f on 27 Oct 2012, 09:01 pm
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Hi Danny,
I am contemplating a new speaker project. The 8" drivers look attractive because I'm trying to keep size down. I want to use a pair of woofers per channel as woofers, not pure subs, and would like the ability to hit jazz & symphony levels, about 105 DB. So do I need 8" or 12" pairs? Also what is the upper frequency range of each pair of drivers? I really want to be able to run them up to about 300 HZ. Thanks in advance.
Steve f
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Steve,
SPL levels that high are not a problem if you are not needing them to play down too low. In other words the lower you set the extension filter and the lower the woofers play then the peak SPL levels will be lower.
The servo subs easily reach 300Hz, but that is a pretty high point for a crossover. 300Hz to 500Hz is the heart of the mid-range. So you are getting up into the mid-range with your woofers. Ideally letting them cover about 200Hz and down it works out real well.
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Danny,
I wanted to try some Bohlander- Grabener ribbons either rd 50's or 75's in a two way, trying to avoid using a mid-woofer, or tweeter. High volume isn't a big priority, just want to have good dynamic peaks. To save space, will the 8" do fine or are the 12" drivers preferred?
A few people tell me multiple neo 10's are better, but I don't need maximum efficiency for this design. And I want to keep it simple.
Steve
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I wanted to try some Bohlander- Grabener ribbons either rd 50's or 75's in a two way, trying to avoid using a mid-woofer, or tweeter. High volume isn't a big priority, just want to have good dynamic peaks. To save space, will the 8" do fine or are the 12" drivers preferred?
That is the bad thing (one of them anyway) about those drivers. They really don't play low enough to crossover over to a sub and don't play low enough to get the crossover point out of the mid-range. The best thing to do is cross them over at about 850Hz or higher to a line of woofers.
A few people tell me multiple neo 10's are better, but I don't need maximum efficiency for this design. And I want to keep it simple.
10 times better. And they can cross as low as 150Hz if using a line of them.
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And they can cross as low as 150Hz if using a line of them.
I've yet to find an explanation of this phenomenon sharp enough to penetrate my thick skull...
How pronounced is the difference versus a single driver (Neo10, in this case)?
I'm particularly interested in how the Neo10 performs as a single driver, as I'm not sure a line array is something I could afford to experiment with right now. (I suppose there's no substitute for just getting one & taking measurements, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can before buying drivers that might end up being ill-suited to the cause).
My application is sealed, and I'd like to avoid hijacking an open-baffle thread, but this specific driver combination is something that has caught my eye. The BG literature indicates that a sealed enclosure boosts the freq range that I'd be interested in using it for (a subset of the boosted 300Hz-6kHz range; I was eyeing roughly 300-3000Hz), but I'm concerned that the associated steep roll-off might make it difficult to get low enough to meet one of these 8" servo wonders (or more, depending on sensitivity. It sure would be nice to reach levels similar to what Steve is aiming for, but I've no idea how realistic that is). Interested in your gut reaction to this pairing, with a single Neo10 + one or more 8" servos...
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I have already tested a single Neo 10 and Neo 3 pdr in a sealed box as a mini-monitor. They can easily cross over to a lower woofer in the 200Hz to 250Hz range.
There is a model in the works for Serenity Acoustics that is a mini-monitor using those drivers. The monitor sets on an integrated stand that has a pair of side firing 8" servo subs in a sealed box.
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There is a model in the works for Serenity Acoustics that is a mini-monitor using those drivers. The monitor sets on an integrated stand that has a pair of side firing 8" servo subs in a sealed box.
Will the mini monitor be available as a separate purchase (i.e., without the integrated stand) for those who already have a sub(s)?
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Will the mini monitor be available as a separate purchase (i.e., without the integrated stand) for those who already have a sub(s)?
No, the stand will be integral to the design.
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I guess that means you won't be making any similar kit designs.
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I guess that means you won't be making any similar kit designs.
Oh, there will be some kits. :thumb:
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I have already tested a single Neo 10 and Neo 3 pdr in a sealed box as a mini-monitor. They can easily cross over to a lower woofer in the 200Hz to 250Hz range. ...monitor sets on an integrated stand that has a pair of side firing 8" servo subs in a sealed box.
Oh, there will be some kits
Awesome! Sounds like the perfect combo; eagerly awaiting their debut.
In the meantime, I think I'll try auditioning the Neo10 and Neo3 in a quick-and-dirty enclosure. I'm very anxious to hear these both, and this seems like something that could be evolved into a center channel to meet mains from a new GR kit... (We'll see; first time project, not counting a build from a design found online a decade ago).
On a separate note (and maybe this belongs in another thread?), my understanding w.r.t. the A370PEQ amp (which I believe is what drives the Rythmik sub I got last year) was that one needed to use the (line-level) LFE-in so as to avoid a low-pass filter. I'd like to do the crossover at speaker-level (so as to avoid buying a new receiver with pre-outs). Am I doomed, should I resign myself to active crossover on this, or is there a quick fix?
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On a separate note (and maybe this belongs in another thread?), my understanding w.r.t. the A370PEQ amp (which I believe is what drives the Rythmik sub I got last year) was that one needed to use the (line-level) LFE-in so as to avoid a low-pass filter. I'd like to do the crossover at speaker-level (so as to avoid buying a new receiver with pre-outs). Am I doomed, should I resign myself to active crossover on this, or is there a quick fix?
Neither the high level or low level input by-passes the low pass filter. The low pass filter is built into the amp and is the purpose of it. It allows only the low frequency signals (adjusted by the controls of the amp) to pass to the servo woofers.
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Thanks Danny & all. I have two follow up questions. If I use two neo 10 drivers per channel, should I order the 12" subs? Can the 8" subs suffice? Costs are close enough to not be a factor, but a narrower baffle width would be a big plus, at least in my room.
Steve
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Thanks Danny & all. I have two follow up questions. If I use two neo 10 drivers per channel, should I order the 12" subs? Can the 8" subs suffice? Costs are close enough to not be a factor, but a narrower baffle width would be a big plus, at least in my room.
Steve
Either the 8" or 12" servo subs will work fine.
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If you use three 8's or two twelves, you will get a similar response. The thing to remember is that the front baffle will be smaller like you wanted and be less obtrusive. I have 3 8's right now, and am really happy. Either way.. they are right, can't go wrong...
Jon
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Thanks guys. Jon did you add another baffle leg to the basic Vee design?
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Not sure what you mean. But my three 8's are set just with two baffle legs similar to the Super V
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I was wondering if the Vee became well a straight sided "S" with each separate driver on it's own baffle.
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I can't say much. You could do them vertical or make a wedge s I guess.
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Steve. Look for the new post by HAL and Pi and Danny tonight under the GR AC site. You'll get it then
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Looks nice, but not for my application.
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Oh, there will be some kits. :thumb:
Danny -- any general idea when the new kits will be available? I'm anxious to see a monitor that uses the Neo10.
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Danny -- any general idea when the new kits will be available? I'm anxious to see a monitor that uses the Neo10.
I have a mini-monitor design using them in the works for Serenity Acoustics. They will not be available as kits though.