[whydontumarryit]

Hi,

Here's the problem. Various setups involving speaker and seated locations have not resulted in an acceptable reproduction of music compared to the changes realized when I physically move up or forward in relation to the room/speakers from my normal listening position. The fact is that the listener's physical position in relation to the room/speakers is not exactly the same as the speaker position in the room in relation to the listener.

Just to be clear, I sit on my couch and find that I need to lean forward to improve the sound. Moving the couch forward to that same position does not result in the same sound as my physical movement.

Any ideas as to why this is happening?

[Letitroll98]

Reflection from the back of the couch that goes away when you lean forward.  Try a heavy blanket folded a few times or an overstuffed pillow behind your head.

[John Casler]

If you are talking about "greater clarity", "greater transparency" and or better detail in the highs, some find that lowering their head (looking down slightly) does the same thing.

YMMV   

[toocool4]

By leaning forward, you may be changing your ear hight with relation to the speakers acoustic centre.
Also if the back on your couch is high, you may want to get a couch that has a lower back than your ears. Maybe something that only comes up to your shoulder hight, so you don’t get the reflections back to your ears so quickly.
 

[jtcf]

A coffee table in front of the couch could cause reflections also

[whydontumarryit]

Thanks guys,

I thought the couch and coffee table would be inconsequestial, maybe not. So, I will try the blanket on the couch and  various materials around my listening position to see what difference it makes, if any. About the sound characteristics in relation to the listening position, the closest I can get to quantifying this is to run my ypao room correction software and compare the frequency sweeps in the seated and forward/raised positions. As far as a description of the differences in sound vs position it’s simply a matter of the soundstage filling in beyond that back of the speakers toward the rear wall like it should be.
Yes, simply changing my ear height in relation to the speakers has a dramatic effect but that's because these speakers have a crossover with slow slopes so the gradual transition betwwen the drivers causes abrupt changes in sound due to the change in vertical dispersion. That's complicating things, though.
I will attempt the changes and report back.

thanks for the advice

[mick wolfe]

I would experiment with acoustic room treatments if you haven't already. Sounds like you're dealing with a very fussy speaker as well.

[whydontumarryit]

Hi,
The ypao test showed nothing interesting. A blanket across the couch made no difference. Moving the coffee table out of the line of fire helped alot and made the changes in my positioning less noticeable. The thing is 4x2.5 ft and 30” away from the speakers. The speaker stands are 6” too high and need to be changed.This solves the problem for the most part.

thanks again for the input.

[mick wolfe]

I had a similar issue with GMA Europa's years ago. Tweeter height had to be on the same plane as my ear or mild confusion set in. I believe it was a Morel. Nice tweeter aside from this issue, or maybe it was just me 

[Letitroll98]

How far away from your speakers is your listening position?  First order crossovers generally need a lot of room to breath, sitting too close can be problematic.

[mick wolfe]

How far away from your speakers is your listening position?  First order crossovers generally need a lot of room to breath, sitting too close can be problematic.

That's a solid point as well.  The GMA Europa I mentioned earlier was indeed designed with a first order xover.

[Wayner]

I've learned that for myself, its way better to have the tweeters of the speakers at a much higher elevation then the recommended "ear level". The sound for me is much clearer, more dimensional with a "fun" sound stage. Try it, you might like it.

'ner

[thorman]

 Try shimming your front Spikes 1/4" to raise the firing of the tweeters. Sometimes the rake can make some nice improvements. Also try the reverse...See what happens.....Easy to do and nothing to lose !

[WGH]

Try shimming your front Spikes 1/4" to raise the firing of the tweeters. Sometimes the rake can make some nice improvements.

That's what I did after I got a new sofa with a higher seat. Ace Hardware has a nice selection of both rubber and metal fender washers with 1-1/2" O.D. and 3/8" I.D. to mix and match to get a 1/4" lift. The small change made a big difference in focus and enjoyment.

[whydontumarryit]

I will try the above suggestions, as well. The question is if you sit up straight and move forward a foot from your normal listening position is the sound better or not? As MW said this could very well turn out to be a “ME” problem.

thanks

[whydontumarryit]

Managed a correct description of the higher/ forward listening position.

The stereo effect is diminished so that the soundstage is more homogenous sounding. If you've ever listened to headphones with crossfade to reduce the separation it's exactly like that.

The speakers were moved back (120” vs 100” from the listening position)and tilted up (shimmed only an 1/8”, so far) as suggested. Since I had to go from essentially nearfield to midfield listening and expected the room to have a negative effect without some effort. I used the information from an old article from the Audio Critic to setup the speakers for maximally flat low frequency response in the room.This method is close to, I think, the realtrap 38% instructions, which I already tried and dismissed. It isn't a big deal, correct setup is a matter of inches and I'm just glad that another attempt proved to be fortunate.

Now, how to optimize the sound for correct instrument timbre using room treatments?

thanks everyone, sound is much improved.