[virtue]

I got this email today from Bill Leebens.  Bill was a terrific customer advocate at AudioGon and now works with a variety of audio startups.

Bill teamed up with Gavin Fish over at Da Vinci to make a very cool DAC and they're giving them away right now on Kickstarter for $139 (if you pull the trigger right now).

http://bit.ly/mustgeekout



He writes:

"Since the beginning of this year, I've been closely involved in the creation and development of a new type of product with founder/designer Larry Ho, sales/marketing goofball/genius Gavin Fish, and über-driven project-manager Kim Kaplan: a device with high-end performance, geared to a mainstream marketplace.

The idea was to introduce the virtues of the high-end-- sound with clarity, intelligibility and punch--to an audience with zero tolerance of the usual audiophile bullshit. You can see the results of that effort as a campaign on Kickstarter; in celebration of our inner geek, the product has been called--"GEEK".

Here's the link to the campaign: http://bit.ly/mustgeekout

"GEEK" is a thumb-drive-sized USB portable DAC and headphone amp. "Uh huh", you say, "I've seen that before."

No-- you haven't.

"GEEK" will handle hi-res PCM up to 384k. It will do DSD, DSD 2, DXD. It has a real, powerful headphone amp. It has two headphone jacks. It will have a line-out. It will have proprietary spatialization software to take the image out of your head, and out all around you... all for the low, low price of $299. And did I mention that we met our initial goal in 10 1/2 hours? And tripled that within 48 hours??

--But WAIT! There's MORE !! Had you been one of the first on the scene of the Kickstarter campaign when it launched on  Tuesday, you could've scored a GEEK for freakin' $99..NINETY-NINE BUCKS!!!  At this point, you can still get one at the ludicrously-low pre-launch price of  $139. Seriously: you could spend that much on some damn remastered Diana Krall disc.

This thing comes with a USB-extender, cleverly called "Slacker"--every geek has a slacker best friend, right? In days to come, we'll also announce a ridiculous amount of cool shit that'll come with GEEK.

Anyone who has known me for any time at all knows that I have NO tolerance for deception or disingenuousness. This is the real deal: not only can you score a fabulous product at a bargain price, but you can help underwrite a campaign to bring new life into high-end audio, bring in people who just want to  listen to music and movies, play their damn games, and enjoy the experience without jive or jargon."

For whom doesn't this sound like a no-brainer?  Pile on!

[JohnR]

I really don't like the tiered pricing thing they're doing there, Seth. Now it's $159. Looks like they're running out of steam though.

I'm not in, in other words. If they'd set the same price for all pledgers, maybe it would have been different.

[Phil A]

They indicate they are not shipping until January 2014.  So whether it is $159 now or a few dollars higher a few months from now (especially the fact that during the Holiday system it may slow down even more), it's not a big deal.  I think they would have been better off setting one price too.

[virtue]

Guys,

Price escalation is a scarcity device to reward early adopters and urge people to hit "buy."

Every time-bound sale uses the same technique.  Miss the sale, miss the price.  It makes us more anxious to not miss the sale...

If it weren't for customers taking me up on the Melissa sale in 2010, I would not be married right now.  I had a number to hit and the sale encouraged action.

Perhaps there are too many steps in this escalator but I don't think it's shifty, per se. 

Bill and gang are trying to cover some pretty serious start-up costs and like every entrepreneur/risk-taker, they deserve our good-will.  Creating stuff is hard.

Seth

[JohnR]

Bill and gang are trying to cover some pretty serious start-up costs and like every entrepreneur/risk-taker, they deserve our good-will.  Creating stuff is hard.

But they're not asking for good will, they're asking for money. The way the offer has been structured comes across as cynical and manipulative. It's not a "time-bound sale" at all.

[Bemopti123]

While not outlandish in price, it seems to me that escalating the price within 2 days to that amount it surely decreases the numbers of people willing to try something new.  The fact is that within the price point of $159-300 there are several alternative devices that offer something that this product is attempting to fill.

Dragonfly
Meridian Explorer

and a number of other devices made in the Far East.  Too many to mention, too many forgettable devices that I think seem to exploit the latest and greatest mentality of push out as many pieces out the door before the novelty wears off. 

Well, that is my take on this whole scheme. 

Paul

[virtue]

By a narrow definition, isn't all selling exploitative?

The price escalation concept is a core feature of Kick-starter which is wildly successful.

Anyway, Bill's a good guy and he'll probably hook you up if the $30 is driving you mad.

Seth

[this_is_vv]

While not outlandish in price, it seems to me that escalating the price within 2 days to that amount it surely decreases the numbers of people willing to try something new.  The fact is that within the price point of $159-300 there are several alternative devices that offer something that this product is attempting to fill.

Dragonfly
Meridian Explorer

and a number of other devices made in the Far East.  Too many to mention, too many forgettable devices that I think seem to exploit the latest and greatest mentality of push out as many pieces out the door before the novelty wears off. 

Well, that is my take on this whole scheme. 

Paul

any of above does DSD???

V

[Doublej]

If it makes you feel any better the first 100 units were $99, the second 200 units were $119.

I wonder what the street price will be after they launch.


Yes they claim to do DSD and "any current or anticipated audio format". I am not sure this is possible but it sure seems like great marketing.

[Phil A]

To me it's just unusual that they have tiered prices for pre-launch with no one getting anything before January 2014 (I guess in part since they want to figure out how many to produce with an initial run).  For me, I'm in process of a move and not sure precisely where I'll be at that date.  It's not a big deal if it is $20 or $40 or $50 more, just really strange (almost gives it the feeling of a pyramiding scheme) the way they have pre-launch prices.  I'm not ordering it at least until I have a better feel for where I'll be and where it can be sent to (have the same issue with any other thing I'd order for delivery around that date).

[Bemopti123]

any of above does DSD???

V

This idea that the hardware that has the most codecs, while it might be attractive, for me, it leaves me some key aspects obscured.  Can it do a better job at communicating standard files up to FLAC?  There are many devices out there that tout its ability to understand codecs than their peers but for me, the ability to communicate in the most useful languages and communicate well is the most important quality. 

But, to find this out, we will need to wait to hear the results from the field.

[billleebens]

Seth, thanks for bringing up this topic.

Light Harmonic introduced Geek on Kickstarter in order to gauge the response to the product from a non-audiophile audience that is receptive to new ideas, new projects, and new products. We feel that plenty of folks would enjoy better sound while listening to music, watching movies, or gaming; our sense is that many buyers are kept away from high-quality audio by the amount of jargon and specsmanship contained in most product presentations... and perhaps by the hostility that is commonplace in the audiophile world, as displayed right here. The level of response indicates that mainstream buyers do indeed appreciate the benefits, and perhaps an approach that is somewhat different and humorous.

I would invite you all to spend a little more time on Kickstarter and familiarize yourself with both the intent of the site and its guidelines. The site is designed to foster innovative projects and products by providing both exposure and funding; Kickstarter backers show their support by putting their money where there mouths are, just like those of us who support public and community radio stations --you DO support those kinds of stations, don't you?

We are offering a cutting-edge product to supporters at major discounts from the $299 MSRP--I fail to see this as "cynical and manipulative".

Regarding those other products: please understand that Geek is made entirely in the US. Boards are made and stuffed in California, aluminum enclosures are milled and anodized in California, final assembly and testing occurs at our facility in Sacramento. Packaging will be printed locally.

Light Harmonic's CEO, Larry Ho, is a Taiwanese engineer and serial entrepreneur who has built and sold several successful companies in China, but as an audiophile, wanted to start an audio company in what he viewed as the birthplace of high-end audio: the US. He has been a consultant on digital-processing issues to a number of Silicon Valley corporations and was on the committee that drafted the audio standards for USB 2.0.

"Claim to do DSD"? Light Harmonic has been a leader in state-of-the-art DSD playback with the Da Vinci Dual DAC and creation of a USB cable that eliminates problems frequently encountered in DSD playback, as seen here:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/light-harmonic-lightspeed-usb-cable. We don't "claim to do DSD", we simply state that Geek WILL do DSD--as indeed it does. And if you care to compare Geek's specs and capabilities with those other guys, you can find them here (scroll down below my ugly mug): http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com

Anyway: thanks, Seth, for allowing me a moment on the soapbox. I hope you all will follow the campaign, and note the level of enthusiasm it has generated amongst regular folks who just want to enjoy their music.

Isn't that what this is all about?



 

[cstory]

I signed up for this. Yeah, it's speculative, but I like the idea of supporting a new development here in the US. If they can develop a product for the same price as the Meridian Explorer and improve on the sound of that unit, then it seems like a nobrainer for $159.

I guess I don't understand the grousing about the progressive pricing. The pricing appeared to be based on the number of subscribers, not on time. The fact that the first level sold out almost immediately seems to indicate that there are a lot of people excited by the product and what it promises to deliver. Do I wish I had gotten in at $99? Sure, but even at $159 it would seem to be a bargain for a domestically produced product like this.

Best of luck to Bill and all the folks at Light Harmonics. I'll be looking forward to putting the GEEK through it's paces in 2014.
 

[jtwrace]

Bill welcome to AC!

Do you have any AP or dbScope measurements that you can share on the Geek Dac?

[this_is_vv]

Seth, thanks for bringing up this topic.

Light Harmonic introduced Geek on Kickstarter in order to gauge the response to the product from a non-audiophile audience that is receptive to new ideas, new projects, and new products. We feel that plenty of folks would enjoy better sound while listening to music, watching movies, or gaming; our sense is that many buyers are kept away from high-quality audio by the amount of jargon and specsmanship contained in most product presentations... and perhaps by the hostility that is commonplace in the audiophile world, as displayed right here. The level of response indicates that mainstream buyers do indeed appreciate the benefits, and perhaps an approach that is somewhat different and humorous.

I would invite you all to spend a little more time on Kickstarter and familiarize yourself with both the intent of the site and its guidelines. The site is designed to foster innovative projects and products by providing both exposure and funding; Kickstarter backers show their support by putting their money where there mouths are, just like those of us who support public and community radio stations --you DO support those kinds of stations, don't you?

We are offering a cutting-edge product to supporters at major discounts from the $299 MSRP--I fail to see this as "cynical and manipulative".

Regarding those other products: please understand that Geek is made entirely in the US. Boards are made and stuffed in California, aluminum enclosures are milled and anodized in California, final assembly and testing occurs at our facility in Sacramento. Packaging will be printed locally.

Light Harmonic's CEO, Larry Ho, is a Taiwanese engineer and serial entrepreneur who has built and sold several successful companies in China, but as an audiophile, wanted to start an audio company in what he viewed as the birthplace of high-end audio: the US. He has been a consultant on digital-processing issues to a number of Silicon Valley corporations and was on the committee that drafted the audio standards for USB 2.0.

"Claim to do DSD"? Light Harmonic has been a leader in state-of-the-art DSD playback with the Da Vinci Dual DAC and creation of a USB cable that eliminates problems frequently encountered in DSD playback, as seen here:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/light-harmonic-lightspeed-usb-cable. We don't "claim to do DSD", we simply state that Geek WILL do DSD--as indeed it does. And if you care to compare Geek's specs and capabilities with those other guys, you can find them here (scroll down below my ugly mug): http://mustgeekout.blogspot.com

Anyway: thanks, Seth, for allowing me a moment on the soapbox. I hope you all will follow the campaign, and note the level of enthusiasm it has generated amongst regular folks who just want to enjoy their music.

Isn't that what this is all about?

Thanks for stopping by. I have backed up the project.

I have a question how does it do DSD does it convert to PCM and do the conversion as may be i am totally wrong i think we need two DAC chips for DSD and PCM.

again just a question.

And welcome again

V

[JohnR]

Nice. Thanks Seth, thanks Bill.

Hey, maybe some of you guys could back this project too: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1907446723/ufo-a-diy-turntable-strobe

It's from someone that actually supports AC, and I want mine! Be quick - only 4 hours left.

Thanks...

[TF1216]

Thanks for stopping by. I have backed up the project.

I have a question how does it do DSD does it convert to PCM and do the conversion as may be i am totally wrong i think we need two DAC chips for DSD and PCM.

again just a question.

And welcome again

V

Does the decoder choose what the sampling rate is and picks a different clock?  Or does the DAC derive the clock from the input?

[billleebens]

Hi, guys! Thanks for the questions.

My understanding is that unlike Light Harmonic's Da Vinci Dual DAC--which has two completely separate DACs, one for PCM and one for DSD-- Geek does convert DSD to PCM. Hey, there are only so many goodies you can squeeze into something as small as Geek, right?

I'll get further clarification on that, as well as the answers to the other questions, from Larry Ho. I'll post 'em when I gots 'em.

Also: we have listened to y'all; we've eliminated offerings beyond $159, and have made the quantity available at $159 unlimited. As soon as we can nail down the details, we'll be posting offers above $159 that will include a variety of accessories for the care and feeding of Geek. Okay?

Back soon with info.

Thanks for your enthusiasm and interest!

Bill

[billleebens]

Hi-- I have answers to the questions that have been asked about Geek. I was wrong about conversion of DSD to PCM--my bad!

Here are answers from campaign honcho Gavin Fish:

"AP measurements will be published when we get closer to shipping Geek.

DSD is not converted to PCM, it is played natively.  No, you don't need two DAC chips to play PCM and DSD, though in Da Vinci we do it that way… sort of.  Our PCM DAC is not a "DAC chip" -- it's made from discrete parts.

The decoder converts what it receives.  It does not up-sample or over-sample.  It detects the sample rate of the audio and chooses which clock to use.  If a user wants to up-sample, they can do it in the computer's output settings."

Thanks for y'all's interest!

Bill

[JohnR]

Awesome. Thanks Bill!