AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Vandersteen Speakers => Topic started by: jeffreybehr on 31 May 2015, 11:48 pm
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...of this forum. If it's to continue, it needs a moderator. Pls post your willingness to do that. This function should require virtually no additional time for someone who already uses or at least views this forum frequently.
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Wow, pretty extreme move to get out of moderating. :wink:
Please PM me on what speakers you've gone to.
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...of this forum. If it's to continue, it needs a moderator. Pls post your willingness to do that. This function should require virtually no additional time for someone who already uses or at least views this forum frequently.
Do you have to own Vandersteens?
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Get you some open baffle speakers, you'll like them better, at half the cost...
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In Munich, Richard Vandersteen confided in a mutual friend that he can no longer sell the speakers that made him famous. Nowadays the big dollar models are selling briskly but the 1b and 2c aren't moving at all.
I can't speak to the accuracy of those claims but my source is unimpeachable. It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
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It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
I recently had to explain to a younger co-worker what the term "HiFi" means. She (educated, early 30's) genuinely didn't know what I was talking about when I tried using the term "Stereo" as an alternative and responded with a gesture suggesting a boombox.
In my mid 40's, I have no friends, colleagues or acquaintances who have any interest in HiFi. I'd go further and say I know of hardly anyone even interested in music - it's been reduced to something you consume like disposable fashion. It's a lonely passion.
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Do you have to own Vandersteens?
Not at all; but you surely ought to be interested in them. :)
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Wow, pretty extreme move to get out of moderating. :wink:
Well, not exactly. :)
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It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
I recently had to explain to a younger co-worker what the term "HiFi" means. She (educated, early 30's) genuinely didn't know what I was talking about when I tried using the term "Stereo" as an alternative and responded with a gesture suggesting a boombox.
In my mid 40's, I have no friends, colleagues or acquaintances who have any interest in HiFi. I'd go further and say I know of hardly anyone even interested in music - it's been reduced to something you consume like disposable fashion. It's a lonely passion.
Hmm...I think you need to find an audio club to hang around and a concert hall to attend regularly. And all of my many musical and audiofoolic friends are middle-class.
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Haw! Even my Dad, 40 years ago couldn't figure out why I'd want to sit in a room by myself to just listen.
In my mind that sums up the modern thought of audio: too passive; not stimulating enough; too lonely; geeky yet not hobbyist interactive enough for most nerds (thus A/V is replacing audio in the mass market).
Most music lovers would rather spend the time/money to hear it live, aren't into tech, and just pass it over for A/V.
Nowadays entry level gear has to fit in a small multi-purpose room ("lifestyle") and not be a set of monuments (looking better/more expensive/unexplainable than the rest of the furnishings and be located so as to be impossible to avoid). Sock covered/lacquered monoliths, freaky/huge speakers (attend an audio show), and rack full of electronics that take 30 minutes to turn on and warm up is definitely out of the main stream of family life or dinner parties.
So yeah, why should the average, intelligent person comprehend why someone would invest thousands on gear and dominate a room just to sit there by yourself to hear a recording better?
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Haw! Even my Dad, 40 years ago couldn't figure out why I'd want to sit in a room by myself to just listen.
In my mind that sums up the modern thought of audio: too passive; not stimulating enough; too lonely; geeky yet not hobbyist interactive enough for most nerds (thus A/V is replacing audio in the mass market).
Most music lovers would rather spend the time/money to hear it live, aren't into tech, and just pass it over for A/V.
Nowadays entry level gear has to fit in a small multi-purpose room ("lifestyle") and not be a set of monuments (looking better/more expensive/unexplainable than the rest of the furnishings and be located so as to be impossible to avoid). Sock covered/lacquered monoliths, freaky/huge speakers (attend an audio show), and rack full of electronics that take 30 minutes to turn on and warm up is definitely out of the main stream of family life or dinner parties.
So yeah, why should the average, intelligent person comprehend why someone would invest thousands on gear and dominate a room just to sit there by yourself to hear a recording better?
Well said!
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Most music lovers would rather spend the time/money to hear it live, aren't into tech, and just pass it over for A/V.
This really depends on your definition of "music lover". My experience is that as people get older they have less tolerance for other people at live events and prefer the comfort of their own home. Plus, most of the acts we enjoy have become nostalgia and the cost of concert tickets are crazy.
I used to set 10-20 concerts per year. It is now down to less than half a dozen.
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In Munich, Richard Vandersteen confided in a mutual friend that he can no longer sell the speakers that made him famous. Nowadays the big dollar models are selling briskly but the 1b and 2c aren't moving at all.
I can't speak to the accuracy of those claims but my source is unimpeachable. It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
Relaying a quote from someone is a slippery slope. We have no idea what the context was.
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Relaying a quote from someone is a slippery slope. We have no idea what the context was.
Richard, a blue collar guy who made his name on high value product, was lamenting the dwindling of that market segment.
My feeling is that his concerns are well founded. Very few young people are entering and more and more older ones (like me) have come to realize they can't sell what they have so why buy more?
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It is a shame that kids in their 20s are content listening to their computer with headphones.
By the time I was 24 I had purchased my first pair of Vandersteens, the 2Cs.
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We've all made positive lifestyle changes which others have failed to pursue, to our amazement. For instance, I cannot see why anyone still smokes cigarettes or why so many people are permanently disfiguring themselves with tattoos.
It's a free country here in the U.S. This affords us the opportunity to make stupid decisions and a good many of our fellow countrymen exploit that opportunity to the fullest. You could spend the rest of today watching these on YouTube.
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This really depends on your definition of "music lover". My experience is that as people get older they have less tolerance for other people at live events and prefer the comfort of their own home. Plus, most of the acts we enjoy have become nostalgia and the cost of concert tickets are crazy.
I used to set 10-20 concerts per year. It is now down to less than half a dozen.
I find older folks (like me) have less tolerance for everything, especially changing technology. Music venues come in all shapes and sizes. If you're near a university, many concerts are free and rather small. Folk music festivals also provide another cheap and easy access. In comparing cost, I'd guess the average AC member has invested north of $10,000 in their lifetimes in gear which would buy lots of live music opportunities if you shop carefully.
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I think that it is still possible to sit near the stage in a jazz club and enjoy excellent performances for a tiny fraction of what it costs to get nosebleed seating for Lady GaGa. But I'm not sure because I am intolerant of those many fools who whistle and shout and generally try to call attention to themselves, thinking (or wishing) that they were the show. So I stay home.
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Hope you find a new mod for the circle.
I don't own any OB speakers these days, but I do still mod the circle.
In time I may again get a set of speakers of that sort, until then I am happy to ensure there is a place for exploration and discussion by others.
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So yeah, why should the average, intelligent person comprehend why someone would invest thousands on gear and dominate a room just to sit there by yourself to hear a recording better?
Top 10 Reasons:
1. Relaxation
2. A break from someone talking all the time, like a spouse
3. Able to sit at home with a beer (and/or smoke) rather than next to a stranger at a concert
4. Better sound than many live venues.
5. More comfortable seating at home and beer is cheaper and no parking or driving or scheduling issues
6. Some people not mobile or have physical restrictions
7. Price of live music on a regular basis is expensive
8. If you miss something, play it again!
9. It doesn't matter what the average person thinks. They wouldn't approve of us going to the brothel either
10. Beats spending $30,000 on new cupboards
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11. All your favorite musicians are dead.
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This would be a much better world if everyone were just like me!!!!!! :D :) :( :green: :thumb: :icon_twisted: :wink:
Gene
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Top 10 Reasons:
(snip)
2. A break from someone talking all the time, like a spouse
(snip)
10. Beats spending $30,000 on new cupboards
Ummmmm......let me guess......you're married, right? :rotflmao:
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In Munich, Richard Vandersteen confided in a mutual friend that he can no longer sell the speakers that made him famous. Nowadays the big dollar models are selling briskly but the 1b and 2c aren't moving at all.
I can't speak to the accuracy of those claims but my source is unimpeachable. It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
I think it's more the case that 1b and 2c have far more competition (and perhaps better options for some) at these respective price points. I don't think the middle class has left audio, but Vandersteen's piece of the middle class pie is most certainly smaller than before.
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11. All your favorite musicians are dead.
12. Even if they aren't dead, it's difficult to see them in concert.
Most of the bands I like do not come to where I live.
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In Munich, Richard Vandersteen confided in a mutual friend that he can no longer sell the speakers that made him famous. Nowadays the big dollar models are selling briskly but the 1b and 2c aren't moving at all.
I can't speak to the accuracy of those claims but my source is unimpeachable. It seems that the middle class has gone out of audio too.
I guess he could have everything made in a small poverty stricken country and make it profitable enough to stay in business...
That's what most all companies end up doing...
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After 30+ years of buying/selling/trading equipment to finally get some nice 20 year old units that I really liked and could afford due to it's age, the most joy I get out of it now is when it's turned off over wise the cops show up. After all these years and thousands of dollars I've spent I sold my equipment off this year due to job loss. Funny thing is, I don't even miss it really, yeah some times I do. Now I enjoy watching Video more these days because I can watch and listen too. Hell I even watch concerts now on Qello from my own comfy chair.
Don't get me wrong, If I had the money I'd do it all over again and move someplace where the cops won't come if I turn it on, but that's just not possible anymore so I guess I'll just have to be happy with the TV which is a 1980"s model Sony Trinitron 27" CRT. :icon_frown:
Hell, I still love audio so much If I had 100 grand laying around I could spend it all on audio know problem. That won't happen for a dozen more lifetimes.
Shoot, My 22 year old daughter and her boyfriend whenever they would come over they could care less about my 6' tall speakers, tube pre, two huge amps, Active crossover.
They were both like "Yeah but we got I-phones". They could care less about Hi end audio. Times change I guess.
Maybe Hi-end audio is dying.
Hope you find a new moderator soon.
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Shoot, My 22 year old daughter and her boyfriend whenever they would come over they could care less about my 6' tall speakers, tube pre, two huge amps, Active crossover.
They were both like "Yeah but we got I-phones". They could care less about Hi end audio. Times change I guess.
Maybe Hi-end audio is dying.
Hope you find a new moderator soon.
It's quite sad that the younger generation is missing out so much pleasure now that they are given all the freedom and flexibility to listen to "music-anywhere"
My 27 year old daughter has a different thought; she believes that this freedom of "music-anywhere" makes people enjoy music less; that they are just "listening" and not "enjoying".
When she listens to the system at home, she does recognise the huge difference in the emotion, quality, space, depth...that a hifi system produces vs a pair of earphones on a smart phone.
She also believes that the audio dealers and the industry does not educate and does not promote hi fidelity well enough, even an awareness to educate the youth on what they are missing and perhaps aspire them to own a system when they reach a certain level of maturity and income.
The youth of today need to take a multitask pause....and just learn to enjoy music at some point in time with real hi fi to know the difference.
If the trends towards ear phones continue, the human evolution will come to a point where Man will not have ears, but just 2 holes on both ends, and Man will be walking around with earphones stuck in both these holes....and ultra thin fingers through texting.... :D
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It's quite sad that the younger generation is missing out so much pleasure now that they are given all the freedom and flexibility to listen to "music-anywhere"
My 27 year old daughter has a different thought; she believes that this freedom of "music-anywhere" makes people enjoy music less; that they are just "listening" and not "enjoying".
When she listens to the system at home, she does recognise the huge difference in the emotion, quality, space, depth...that a hifi system produces vs a pair of earphones on a smart phone.
She also believes that the audio dealers and the industry does not educate and does not promote hi fidelity well enough, even an awareness to educate the youth on what they are missing and perhaps aspire them to own a system when they reach a certain level of maturity and income.
The youth of today need to take a multitask pause....and just learn to enjoy music at some point in time with real hi fi to know the difference.
If the trends towards ear phones continue, the human evolution will come to a point where Man will not have ears, but just 2 holes on both ends, and Man will be walking around with earphones stuck in both these holes....and ultra thin fingers through texting.... :D
+1
It's sad when we prefer a lonely/convenient/artificial version of real life to life itself.
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(snip)
Maybe Hi-end audio is dying.
Hope you find a new moderator soon.
Maybe?!!
Used gear has gotten soooooo hard to sell lately, compared to just 10 or 15 yrs ago. Even really good stuff at great rock bottom prices. To me, a less liquid and vibrant used marketplace is a sure indication of shrinking demand and desire for the goods.
It's definitely dying and will shrink into a tiny irrelevant niche when all us late baby boomers are gone. If it's not there already.
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I agree selling pre owned stuff these days is hard work
Not sure if it's ever going to turn around - I have decided to just keep the stuff that does not sell even through I don't have the space
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Yes, but what do we do if we wanted an ARC LS25 now or in 10 years from now? I'd like to have one now but don't have the money. In ten years from now they will be impossible to find. I don't know, The new stuff isn't always better. It should be, but it ain't. At least I don't think so. IMO.
Sorry if I got off subject, I'm just aggravated.
Sorry to lose you as a moderator, but I understand.
Are the V'steen's not selling. Is this typical these day's?
Is it because young people are only interested in cell phones, MP3 players?
Is Hi- End Audio Domed?
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(snip)
Is Hi- End Audio Domed?
Dunno about domed, but I do believe it is doomed..........or more likely, relegated to a very small fringe. :cry:
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Maybe?!!
Used gear has gotten soooooo hard to sell lately, compared to just 10 or 15 yrs ago. Even really good stuff at great rock bottom prices. To me, a less liquid and vibrant used marketplace is a sure indication of shrinking demand and desire for the goods.
It's definitely dying and will shrink into a tiny irrelevant niche when all us late baby boomers are gone. If it's not there already.
The involvements I've had with dealers/manufacturers (pieces $500 - $3300 range with associated accessories) in the past year have shown a great eagerness to discount and extend accommodations up front (no pressure applied). So the overall audio market seems soft.
The market, if audio show demographics are any indicator, is centered squarely in the baby boomer generation (age 50- 70). This is bad news on a long-term basis for any business.
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I believe it is competition is the culprit for the lessor Vandies as well as the general economy. Salaries have stayed stagnet and those who have jobs are not full time or 40 hours any longer.
Another issue is our Schools. Music appreciation class almost gone. Band restricted to Schools where the community buys the instruments. Shop class for electronics and wood making are as well a thing of the past.
For me personally sitting in the dedicated room on a beautiful sunny day is blasphemy. Playing Golf or paddleball would be my preference. When the Sun goes down it is time to chill and enjoy my music.
Maybe Manufactures could get into the school system at a science fair or auditorium day for a demo. Music reproduction and appreciation in our schools could offer a new admiration of Classical and Jazz as well as new music. Got me hooked 54 years ago trying to play a trumpet in Junior High.
charles
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I believe it is competition is the culprit for the lessor Vandies as well as the general economy. Salaries have stayed stagnet and those who have jobs are not full time or 40 hours any longer.
My guess is that the entry level Vandies were usually purchased by people in their 20s and 30s who are building their first systems. The advent of portable digital music has killed that market. People seem content to listen music in their house on the same equipment they listen to it out of the house.
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I remember as a young boy hearing for the first time a live marching band. I'm sure they were nothing special, but in that moment, I knew the power and beauty of live music, and throughout my life, I have chased that almost magical experience.
Throughout the 70s I saw all of the great rock bands, and later developed a love for classical, jazz, bluegrass, you name it (with some obvious exceptions). I have evolved an audio system in my living room that sounds better than most live concerts I've attended and listening to it is one of the great passions in my life. I will retire next month and plan to spend some quality time listening. I recently married a younger woman who, like my first wife, is just as happy to listen to music on cable TV through the TV speakers - as is being attested to, most younger people are only interested the latest music that's trending, they are plugged into it but don't really LISTEN. They will never know the joy of sitting with the lights out, an ice cold martini in hand, listening to magnificent live music at high volume that turns my living room into a concert venue with top notch acoustics, something that brings me real joy.
Matt
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I forgot to mention - if it's encouraging at all - I just ordered a new DAC, a Schitt Yggdrasil, and they are backordered for at least a month. That's an indication that there is still SOME interest in high-end audio out there!
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I forgot to mention - if it's encouraging at all - I just ordered a new DAC, a Schitt Yggdrasil, and they are backordered for at least a month. That's an indication that there is still SOME interest in high-end audio out there!
Not necessarily. Could be that production capacity is very low, and a handful of orders overwhelms them.
There will always be SOME interest in high end audio. The issue is that the level of interest is waning over the years.
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I forgot to mention - if it's encouraging at all - I just ordered a new DAC, a Schitt Yggdrasil, and they are backordered for at least a month. That's an indication that there is still SOME interest in high-end audio out there!
Schiit is mainly a headphone company, which is the one sector of the biz doing quite well.
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I have plenty of friends who are purchasing the 1 and 2's. Is that segment as strong as the upper line? I doubt it. That's teh way it is for everyone in audio. There has been a paradigm shift and that's probably why Richard went the 5 and up level to begin with. I like what he's doing as the trickle down is amazing. I never liked or got the 2's. I got Proacs over them years ago, but now I listen to the monitors and less expensive floor standing speakers and they can't compete with the two's, but marketing and negative selling hurts sales I'm sure. Bass is the most expensive part of the music chain and that's one thing the 2's can give you at that price point and they do it without fatigue. Nearly all the speakers I hear in showrooms at that price point tip up the highs a db or two. They aren't listenable for long periods of time. JMHO
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It is sad...
1. We have a dwindling "middle class" in America now, without major intervention on the part of the government, we will end up with a privledged few, and relatively poor everyone else. Now, even doctors are underpaid for what they do and the investment they have to make in their careers. No wonder it is hard to sell a lot of Hi Fi!
2. Younger generations are brought up to be "multitaskers" and music listening has been relegated to a background status rather than an engrossing, stimulating, act unto itself. Appreciation, and respect for all of the arts is dwindling, along with education and arts training.
3. The high end audio industry is its own worst enemy-I can think of no other industry which does a worse job promoting themselves. The shift away from good brick and mortar dealers is also not doing the industry any favors. Walk in dealers used to provide a place for discovery of what is possible, now it is hard to find one, and many are not very accomodating to new customers if the customer does not appear to have plenty of money. As previously mentioned, a majority of people do not even realize that high end audio exists! I am not about to buy a McLaren, but I do know they exist, and I am not a car guy.
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Barrows,
I tend to agree. The last major audio item I purchased was the AKG HEARO 999 Audiosphere II system. It is a pro audio based design. It bombed in the audiophile market, since they seem to not appreciate real value for money. The pro audio world moves ahead, while the high end audiophile sector tolerates the wire bandits and those who are assemblers and hucksters of what somebody else mostly built. The pro audio market seems to be a more stable sector of the industry.
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I am going to play devil's advocate here. I think that HiFi is seeing a mild resurgence in good sounding lower priced gear. Cheap DAC's are better than higher priced DAC's of just a few years ago. Headphone's, earbuds and headphone amps are selling well. Inexpensive speakers have much improved sound as do digital amps. Turntables are selling well, even though they are more of the budget TT's. Every time I go to a music store or even the local Barnes and Noble book store, I see teenagers and young adults buying LP's.
I have a 25 year old budding audiophile son and a 29 year old daughter. They say the issue with buying nice gear is that their generation doesn't have the money. Good paying jobs are hard to find even with a college degree. My kids are lucky as they have my hand me down gear.
Just remember when we were all starting out in audio. Most of us that are 50 or 60 something years old started out with a cheap low powered Pioneer, Technics, Kenwood or similar receiver and moved up the chain as money allowed. I was still using my 1970's and 80's gear up until age 45 or so.
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All valid points for sure. I have the 20 yo daughter in college and she is in a house with three other women and I gave her a Marantz integrated with a small pair of Paradigm speakers and a top Paradigm sub. I set it up for them and they love it. They had no idea what they were missing. They aren't and probably won't be audiophiles. They see my cool looking Noble IEM's and my AQ Dragonfly Red and say that's neat. They do hear a difference, but it doesn't matter that much.
Even when I grew up we all had cool receivers. My buddy was given the Sansui quad receiver and I forget the rest of his rig. My dad had a pioneer receiver and the matching TT (I put an top Grado cart on it and my brother uses it today). I had the Yamaha natural sound, CR 620 receiver with matching YP 211 TT with a top Grado MM (former brother in law still uses it and it sounds good for what it is) and house made 3 way speakers. I Quickly purchased a pair of Polk 10's when they came out to pair with the Yamaha gear with the Polk cables, lol. Then it was onto Luxman integrated when I heard the sound difference and once I was in the Navy after college, it was an Iverson Eagle, Robertson and then Moscode (Harvey was a character to say the least and Iverson may or may not be living and if so, it's not in the US anymore, lol). I also purchased a pair of Stax Lambda Pro cans with their portable/battery operated amp that I'm still trying to sell. I sold the can's last year. That portable set up went with my Sony 501ES, the first ever commercial CD player. I got it the day CD was released in Japan and it wasn't even in the US for 6 months after I believe. My ship was over there and I knew it was coming out so that's why I got the cans. It was perfect for listening as I was at sea nearly 75% of the next 5 years.
The system went up from there and is still doing up. I just sold the Treo's and will order Quatro's this week and then sent send my Ayre AX5/20 integrated back to have them install the by-pass filter into the amp.
When you look at how much money you used to have into your system, it was a fair amount. College takes up way too much money for these kids now. They also spend that stereo money on new phones ever 6 months, game boxes and new games, streaming, internet and who knows what else. Life changes and the companies who started in the 70's and are still going strong and growing stuns me. What Richard has been able to do is amazing. He's still coming out with GREAT new speakers and making his older ones better than most folks new ones for the price. To me, that's crazy. He's kept prices down on the lower two models.
To get the sound you can get out of a pair of 1B's with a small NAD integrated amp (B stock) and a Chord Mojo or Music Hall 25.2 DAC or even streaming Tidal via your phone with a less expensive DAC gives you really good sound. Much better than the compressed stuff and it's not huge and it can be moved. We have never had a lot of folk who knew the high end was out here. Growing up I turned so many onto a pair of Heresy's with a larger Yamaha integrated amp. To this day, many are still using and fixing those two or getting new gear all over again.
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Kinda off topic but still very much about Vandersteen: I just auditioned the Quatro CT and the Proac D48 a couple of days ago. Both great speakers. Bottom line; I am on the verge of ordering a pair of Quatros'. ctsooner, this question is addressed to you. You mention in your post "I just sold the Treo's and will order Quatro's this week and then sent send my Ayre AX5/20 integrated back to have them install the by-pass filter into the amp." Why are you installing the by-pass filter in the amp rather than using the ones that Vandersteen provides? Just curious.
Randy
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Still love my 2CE SigII.
Every so often I get the itch to possibly upgrade to Treos. However, I love my current speakers and for no additional cash on my part, they still sound pretty damn fine!
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RandyH,
I can help answer that question. The filters offered by Vandersteen go between the pre-amp and the power amp. But what if you're using an integrated amplifier (i.e a pre-amp and power amp in one box, with no pre-amp out / power amp in)? Sometimes (like in the case of Ayre) the manufacturer will install the first-order filter into the integrated for you. I drive my Quatro CTs with an Ayre AX-7e integrated amp - I had to send my integrated back to Ayre for filter installation.
The good news is that it's far less expensive to have Ayre install the filter caps than purchasing the filters from Vandersteen. The bad news is that you're "stuck" only using that integrated w/ speaker systems that require a first order roll-off -3dB @ 100 Hz.
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duh....of course! The answer was too obvious. :-) In any case, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I would further appreciate any observations or comments you might have regarding the ownership and performance of the Quatro CT.
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Maybe?!!
Used gear has gotten soooooo hard to sell lately, compared to just 10 or 15 yrs ago. Even really good stuff at great rock bottom prices. To me, a less liquid and vibrant used marketplace is a sure indication of shrinking demand and desire for the goods.
It's definitely dying and will shrink into a tiny irrelevant niche when all us late baby boomers are gone. If it's not there already.
This is ridiculously true!
But this is not helped by Audiogon increasing their fee's 500% to 3,700% on pretty much all items for the AD in the first place.
Mainly you got Joe Blow, and the dealers now cranking up price to not just cover these fee's, but than the shipping from everywhere on items over 10 to 15 lbs has gone up nearly 300% in the last 5 to 10 years as well hurting all used gear sales.
So not just the mismatch of cost vs. value coming into play, but everybody much like housing is taking a shot at making that extra little kick because they know once it's gone they can't sell it again, and the buyer [sucker] they sold to will likely never be able to sell again anyway much like people will be forced to die in all these overpriced houses as nobody will take them off their hands at such ridiculous pricing.
Same action / reaction is applying here on a smaller scale. Fed Ex fee's are just a tax going up, just like property tax on those bloated houses!
Simple musical chairs just don't get stuck without a chair when the music stops!
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This is ridiculously true!
But this is not helped by Audiogon increasing their fee's 500% to 3,700% on pretty much all items for the AD in the first place.
Mainly you got Joe Blow, and the dealers now cranking up price to not just cover these fee's, but than the shipping from everywhere on items over 10 to 15 lbs has gone up nearly 300% in the last 5 to 10 years as well hurting all used gear sales.
So not just the mismatch of cost vs. value coming into play, but everybody much like housing is taking a shot at making that extra little kick because they know once it's gone they can't sell it again, and the buyer they sold to will likely never be able to sell again anyway much like people will be forced to die in all these overpriced houses as nobody will take them off their hands at such ridiculous pricing.
Same action / reaction is applying here on a smaller scale. Fed Ex fee's are just a tax going up, just like property tax on those bloated houses!
Simple just don't get stuck without a chair when the music stops!
Wholeheartedly agree!
I do want to add to the discussion, but want to start by saying that my comments are in no way a slam on Vandersteen speakers. :oops:
One of my first high end speaker purchases was the model 2CE Sig ll's. They were a dealer recommendation and at first, I really enjoyed them. As I got further into the hobby, I started listening to other offerings and I found that I liked the sound from other speakers better. A couple things I'll add (please forgive the shallowness) is that the lower offerings from Vandersteen look, well, old fashioned and monolithic. They also require special spade connectors and I really wanted to try different cables as well and felt like I was limited in my choices. In fact, I really prefer banana connectors for reasons I'll leave out of this discussion. Also, technology has really progressed and the offerings under $2.5k are pretty great right now.
Having said all that, the quality and sound of Vandersteen products is exemplary and I have heard his more costly offerings which are stellar.
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Guys, I've had many conversations with Richard about the speaker connection strips. He's listened to everything under the sun and they just sound best. They don't have the gassing problems that most others have and you can get any wire with the proper size spades if you order them that way. As for using different cables, his dealers have enough variety of cables that sound great with his speakers, so you shouldn't have a major problem. Bottom line is that he only cares about what sounds best and is driven that way.
As for installing the crossover in the Ayre, they have spoken to Richard and they use the proper caps etc... It will sound better than using the external crossover, so for me it make sense. I'll have the speakers by the end of Feb I'm sure. They will be in Audi Havana Black, which is what I have really wanted. Should be awesome.
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I want to make sure I said things correctly in my last post. If I had a pre out on my integrated, I'd use the external crossover as THAT's always going to sound the best as it has a battery bias and used the best caps. For my purposes using the integrated, it's the best solution for my needs. Hope came out properly.