[KJ]

Mass loading with 5 3lb weights per RM30 speaker tighens up bass, improves midrange and adds more definition to the treble.

What specifically was improved on the midrange?  I've heard of adding mass to tighten up bass before, but never for the other ranges (especially on a 110lb speaker).

You make valid points, but I believe they apply to all VMPS speakers.  I'm curious if you could comment more specifically on what differences you hear compared to the current model of RM30s.  Are you comparing them against your 626Rs or have you heard the RM30s in your listening environment before?

-KJ

[John B]

What specifically was improved on the midrange?

The singer's voice went from slightly upper nasal in quality to more chesty.  I've experienced the same thing with my monitors and B's sub.  The singer will go from nasal to chest once the sub is on.  So in effect by improving the bass it reflects in the midrange.

what differences you hear compared to the current model of RM30s

I would need B's approval to talk about that as it would relate directly to the new technology involved.

[John B]

If adding 15 pounds helps, that sounds like something the manufacturer can build into the speaker. What's 15 more pounds to an RM-30?  

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so quickly.  The 30's are positioned on medium thick wall to wall carpet at my place, not hard wood floors.  15lbs for my environment worked, I could have put more on, but as I got past the 15 lb weight total, I got a little "compression" to the sound.   Also I have raised wooden floors, which act as bass re-inforcement.  Also don't forget the room treatments.  It's easier to tweak it from the outside than to try and come up with some universal solution, which obviously you can't because we don't have the same listening environments.

[John B]

One thing I've run into with VMPS in general is that it's not wildly forgiving. If the music was recorded badly, you're going to know. I consider that the inevitable hallmark of an accurate speaker. (If you want to glaze over recording issues, well, they invented Tubes for that.  )

I'd like to be sure you aren't saying that, with the tweak, the RM-30s are less "Just Do It" and more "Let me fix that for you". So I guess I'm asking: is the Change the sort that increases Accuracy, or Euphonia? Is it a sharper razor blade, or a little more cinammon glaze on the ham?

No it is not wildly forgiving if you have'nt gone to the effort to match it with the appropriate components.  It is very unforgiving if you have not sufficently treated your room.

The change....in my opinion...allows for less than stellar recordings to be heard at their best possbile fidelity.  This does not mean you won't hear the warts.  They actually did a good job on Eva's voice in most of the cuts on the album, but the mix and instrumentals were poor.  I put on Sonny Rollins "Saxophone Colossus" afterwards and the contrast between the two was quite eye opening.

[ctviggen]

By the way, John, do you have a live end dead end room?  I know you have real traps, but what kind and where?  Do you use any other traps?  I'm asking because I'm still in the process of creating a LEDE room, and I need more real traps, more bass trapping, and much more diffusion.  I'm probably going RPG for diffusion and I may try ASC for bass trapping.

[John Casler]

Yes John's reports pretty much "mirror" mine except I didn't need to redo my room treatments, since they are already done.

Adding mass to the cabinet is something I have used for years, and I add a LOT!!

It has two functions:

1) it reduces the reactive force's affects to the woofers by producing a more effective mechanical coupling to the floor or carpet

2) it reduces cabinet resonances a slight bit

Another option with the RM30 is that it has a base (like a short surfboard)
which attaches to the bottom of the slot.

This base is rather smooth and if placed on carpet will allow you to slide the speaker into position quite easily.

If you want the best mechanical coupling, especially on carpet, remove this base and set the slot on the carpet.

[KJ]

I would need B's approval to talk about that as it would relate directly to the new technology involved.

I'm not asking you to disclose the technology.  I'm simply asking for commentary on differences you hear between the next gen and current model.  You've already commented on how they sound -->

So for day 2 what strikes me most about the next generation RM30's is the vocals. Eva Cassidy's death was a terrible loss to the music world. Her music and voice were the stuff of angels. Sadly, like many pop recordings on CD, you can rarely feel the inner magic of her talent, due to the poor recording quality and the limitations of the recording/electronic reproduction medium in general. For the first time I felt chills when I listened to "Songbird"; the soul was infused in her music. Her voice had "life" and musical "texture" with no edge. I fell under the spell of her music and only because of my dedication to B as his Beta tester did I pull myself out of said spell and try some tweaks and positioning adjustments to nail down the best that this speaker can do.

Any downsides? Perhaps. But only because I'm coming from speakers that had zero cabinet signature/resonance. Not that the RM30's have much, but coming from zero, you can hear anything above that. The pluses so far, far outweight the negatives, but I will diligently try to find some if they exist.

Now how do they sound in comparison to existing models?  If we can't discuss that, then I'd say this thread is nothing more than hype.  

-KJ

[John B]

By the way, John, do you have a live end dead end room? I know you have real traps, but what kind and where? Do you use any other traps?

I've added more to this, with some microtraps at the side wall first reflection points, and two RPG like floorstanding bass traps in front of the RPTV.  Pretty close to LE/DE but I still need to address the ceiling treatment.

[John B]

Now how do they sound in comparison to existing models? If we can't discuss that, then I'd say this thread is nothing more than hype.  

Compared to the RM30 without the new upgrade, that speaker would not remain in my listening room. Way too hot for my tastes.  I suppose I could tuning pot adjust, but after living with pot adjustment mania with the 626Rs, always tweaking them, always thinking I might not have it right, well, I just don't want to go through that again...and with the new RM30's....no tuning pot adjustments nor puddy pinching is necessary.    There, now you have a little bit of the secret.  Hope B doesn't come after me with skinning knife in hand.

[ctviggen]

John,

I have a similar setup, though not as many traps (6 -- two mondo, two HF mini and two HF micro). I also put my HF microtraps between the speakers when critically listening.  Every time I do this, I'm amazed at how much better everything sounds.  Also, if you just have a "live end" that's drywall/furniture, you may want to consider real diffusive elements.  Particularly, see:

http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm

the "Application of Diffusion in Critical Listening Rooms" white paper.  The last couple of figures (figs. 9 and 10) have convinced me to try diffusion (which I've not done yet, as I need to move my computer desk and other stuff out of the room to make way for diffusion).

[John Casler]

 

Please notice the newest tweak now termed the "White sock and toe tweak".

John has placed his right foot in a pattern that blocks a reflection from the partial kitchen wall that is untreatable with normal acoustic treatment.

While the left sock has not been called into play yet, it has infinite possibilites and adjustments if needed to balance the presentation.

New "cotton" whites work best, but some get better absorbtion with dark colors or blacks.

           

[John B]

John has placed his right foot in a pattern that blocks a reflection from the partial kitchen wall that is untreatable with normal acoustic treatment.

Don't laugh, it works!    Even my interconnects and speaker cables are wrapped in cotton.  

[John Casler]

John has placed his right foot in a pattern that blocks a reflection from the partial kitchen wall that is untreatable with normal acoustic treatment.

Don't laugh, it works!    Even my interconnects and speaker cables are wrapped in cotton.  

So when you say "keep your cotton pickin hands off my interconnects" you mean it!!!

[John B]

   

[ScottMayo]

Also, if you just have a "live end" that's drywall/furniture, you may want to consider real diffusive elements.  

I built diffusers for my room and I can't recommend them enough. Small rooms won't generally need them, but for anything bigger than 12x15 or so, go for it. Mine are a thin, curved surface with fiberglass inside, so they diffuse high/mid frequency stuff and provide a small amount of bass trapping to boot. They aren't horribly hard to build, either. They work especially well in conjunction with absorption on the side walls; I had a fun week doing experiments with thin plywood, fiberglass and burlap...

[ScottMayo]

I've added more to this, with some microtraps at the side wall first reflection points, and two RPG like floorstanding bass traps in front of the RPTV.  Pretty close to LE/DE but I still need to address the ceiling treatment.

Is that flat wood table, at what looks like a floor reflection point on the left, causing any effects? I had some bad experiences with a glass-covered table at one point, scarred me for life...

[John B]

Is that flat wood table, at what looks like a floor reflection point on the left, causing any effects

Yup, it is no longer there.  The wife finally surrendered her living room to my addiction.  Not without a fight though, and I have the emotional scars to prove it; I look at them as my merit badges to my audio passion

[ctviggen]

No pots or putty?  Say it ain't true!  I like the pots and putty.  Am I the only one?

[ScottMayo]

No pots or putty?  Say it ain't true!  I like the pots and putty.  Am I the only one?

Let's just say I'm mystified. Dyking tunability of the speaker would be a loss, not a gain. There are plenty of tweaks I laugh at, but driver weight and crossover properties aren't on that list. I've never owned speakers that didn't let you have a frank discussion with the crossover.

But we're also about 3 weeks from hearing some solid facts, so I'm not fretting. Brian's not about to blow his credibility with a wild flop, after 20+ years in the business. If he says he has something, he does.

[John B]

No pots or putty? Say it ain't true! I like the pots and putty. Am I the only one?

Who said anything about no pots and no putty.   Those features are still there; adjustment of them is still and option.   However the factory settings are now optimized for the new technology and there was no adjustment necessary from factory settings needed with the RM30 implementation in my room.  

I have changed things with my beta pair though.  I switched them to where the side woofers are firing inward towards the bass traps that front my RPTV.  Major improvement with my room acoustics.  Very handy feature of this product.