DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III

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JJK

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DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« on: 21 Feb 2008, 10:40 pm »
Has anybody comparted the DAC60 to the Benchmark DAC1 and the PS Audio Link III. I am currently using the DAC in my Aragon StageOne, however it is 5 years old. I am in the market for a new DAC.

Daygloworange

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #1 on: 22 Feb 2008, 12:53 am »
Yes, there has been a comparison recently. Apparently the Benchmark doesn't fare so well compared to the modded DAC-60. I think that even the stock DAC-60 was found to be better sounding than the Benchmark.

Cheers

pbrstreetgang

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #2 on: 22 Feb 2008, 01:20 am »
I compared the GR DAC with the DAC1 and prefer the GR DAC which I use now. The Benchmark is good and quiet but the GR DAC does everything else better.

Danny Richie

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #3 on: 22 Feb 2008, 03:08 am »
If there was a better unit out there for the money I'd be trying to get them too.

I did listen to a Benchmark DAC-1 this past weekend and compared it with a modded DAC-60. I really didn't care too much for the Benchmark. It made the sound stage collapse in a little and took away air and space around instruments. Vocals seemed a little stringent too. The piano track I listened to was very telling too. Through the Benchmark it sounded like a little toy piano. I wasn't too impressed with it.

Rasta

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #4 on: 22 Feb 2008, 03:31 am »
It seems everyone agrees - the Benchmark is not a contender!   :(

Let's up the ante - how does the GR or AVA compare against the Monarchy Nm24?

Inquiring minds want to know?   :lol:

denjo

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #5 on: 22 Feb 2008, 03:37 am »
Hi Danny

What iteration of the Benchmark DAC-1 did you hear? I heard a Benchmark DAC a couple of years back and found the sound cold and sterile as well. But, I have been told that the newer ones don't sound quite so uninvolving.

Best Regards
Dennis

Danny Richie

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #6 on: 22 Feb 2008, 03:42 am »
Quote
Let's up the ante - how does the GR or AVA compare against the Monarchy Nm24?

Minus the line stage the guts of that unit is the same as a stock DAC-60.

Quote
What iteration of the Benchmark DAC-1 did you hear?

As far as I know it was a brand new unit that had just been burned in for a while. I would guess it to be the latest design.

Rasta

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #7 on: 22 Feb 2008, 03:50 am »
I don't think so.  Look at the power supplies, clearly different.

Also, one is in production, the other, at least in its most superior iteration, is vapor ware.  :?

low.pfile

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #8 on: 22 Feb 2008, 04:07 am »
I don't think so.  Look at the power supplies, clearly different.

Also, one is in production, the other, at least in its most superior iteration, is vapor ware.  :?

curious rasta, to which are you referring?

Danny Richie

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #9 on: 22 Feb 2008, 04:21 am »
The power supply has to be changed as it also has to power the line stage. The rest of the unit is still basically a stock unit.

Quote
Also, one is in production, the other, at least in its most superior iteration, is vapor ware.


While the Stage 2 mod may still be under development, the Stage 1 mod is not. And the DAC-60 with with Stage 1 mod is still a considerably better version of that DAC.

Zero

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #10 on: 22 Feb 2008, 04:23 am »
Hows that USB thing progressing on the DAC-60?

laserman

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #11 on: 24 Feb 2008, 12:04 am »
On March 2nd there will be six of us perfoming a little shoot-out with these three DAC's plus 4-6 other DAC's.  I have lived with these three and two others for a week or so.  There are three of us making sure each DAC is burned in for 70+ hours.  I had two NOS Toshiba SD3950's hiding in the back of my audio excess storage closet.  :lol:  They are perfect to use to burn in the DACs.  We are using a Rega Jupiter as the transport and as the control DAC.  Time permitting we may do a comparison of the top two.  This will be a blind test for all expect me, since I am the one swooping cables.  I will post the groups findings after the event. 

Later,
L

pbrstreetgang

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #12 on: 24 Feb 2008, 12:31 am »
The GR DAC 60 needs 30 min of play time to sound its best, I also like NOS Amprex 6922 or a nice all around and cheaper solution is the green not blue ECG Phillips 6922. Danny has some secret sauce varient in his proto mod 2 that is undisclosed at the moment that sounds damn good- now if I can just pry his lips apart  :lol:

markC

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #13 on: 24 Feb 2008, 04:03 am »
On March 2nd there will be six of us perfoming a little shoot-out with these three DAC's plus 4-6 other DAC's.  I have lived with these three and two others for a week or so.  There are three of us making sure each DAC is burned in for 70+ hours.  I had two NOS Toshiba SD3950's hiding in the back of my audio excess storage closet.  :lol:  They are perfect to use to burn in the DACs.  We are using a Rega Jupiter as the transport and as the control DAC.  Time permitting we may do a comparison of the top two.  This will be a blind test for all expect me, since I am the one swooping cables.  I will post the groups findings after the event. 

Later,
L
I'm looking forward to this as I've started playing with a DAC- 60 and it is a work in progress. Looking forward to comments on your observations.

JJK

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #14 on: 29 Feb 2008, 06:52 pm »
I am dying to read your reviews.

I have had the Benchmark and PS Audio for a week now. I am waiting for the DAC 60 modified and another tub DAC, the TADAC (http://www.tubeaudiodesign.com/), to be delivered. 

The Benchmark and PS Audio sound very similar, however I think that the PS Audio sounds more musical, has better bass, better soundstage and more slam. On the other hand, I think that it's upper midrange is weak.

It will be interesting what you find.

John

miklorsmith

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #15 on: 29 Feb 2008, 06:57 pm »
Blasphemy!  Based on the multitude of edumacated folks touting the Benchmark's "perfect" measurements, there's nowhere else to go in digital design.  I guess you guys need to recalibrate your ears.   :D

mcullinan

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #16 on: 29 Feb 2008, 07:11 pm »
The two words I always hear when describing the Benchmark are dry and clinical. If its said so many times there must be something to it.
Mike

Jon L

Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #17 on: 29 Feb 2008, 07:20 pm »
The two words I always hear when describing the Benchmark are dry and clinical. If its said so many times there must be something to it.
Mike

It's all relative.  If you are the sort who thinks something like Amperex 6922's is just perfectly neutral and dead-center on the wet/dry scale, yes you will think Benchmark is dry and clinical.  On the other hand...

laserman

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The results of my DAC G2G
« Reply #18 on: 4 Mar 2008, 06:54 pm »
Here are the results of the DAC G2G

7 Evaluation Areas (scored + or – to the Control):

Range: - 5 = Very Poor / + 5 = Excellent
1. Soundstage Recreation - Like a real stage, a soundstage should have width, depth, and height.  Do the speakers disappear and the instruments appear separated?  Is there a sense that a voice or instrument is in a particular place in the room?

2.  Clarity - Transparency - Resolution - Is it easy to hear into the music, detailed and clear?  Can you hear the subtle changes in one instrument while some other instrument is playing very loudly?  Is this done without sounding bright, sizzly, etched, strident, harsh, and overly analytical?  Do you notice more or less information available from each instrument and it's individual notes?

3. Airy - Spacious - Open - Conveying a sense of space and ambiance.  A hear through quality that is akin to clarity and reveals the subtle information that is fundamental to a spacious sound.  Do instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space filled with air?  Is high frequency response delicate and extending to 15Hz + without peaks?
 
4. Bass Response - Is it tight and fast / weighty, sturdy and warm / or woolly, tubby, bloated and boomy?

5. Transient Response - Attack - The leading edge of a perceived sound.  Good transient response makes the sound as a whole more dynamic, live and realistic.

6. Sweet Sound - Often used when referring to cymbals, percussion, strings, and sibilant sounds.  Lack of peaks in the response, flat high frequency response, low distortion.

7. Ear - Mind - Body Reaction - How does the overall presentation make you feel?  Is your body becoming relaxed or tense?  Does the music cause a positive reaction (toes tapping, emotional response, etc.)?  Do you want to turn the volume up or down?  Do you want to listen longer, or keep changing tracks in an attempt to find satisfaction?

Associated Equipment Used:

Rega Planet 2000 (recently checked out by Rega) as the Control and Transport
Bryson BP25 preamp
Aragon 8008 BB amp
Swan D2.1SE standmount and Vandersteen 2W sub
Zu Cable SW’s
Alpha Core, Aural Symphonic, Zu Cable IC’s
HAVE Cable Coaxial

All the DAC’s were evaluated in the seven areas listed about in a +5 to – 5 scale of the Control, which was zero.  There were eight evaluators but only six were used because two of them were not blind to the DAC’s (myself being one of them).  I will state that my assessment was not different than those blinded to the identity of the DAC’s.

First and foremost this evaluation is just one in many you can find throughout the Internet and is only being posted here as another reference point.  We in no way are indorsing any manufacturer.  The conclusion reached by the group was it was difficult at times to tell the difference between the Control and the DAC, even in Round 1. 

The only way to know how a piece of equipment will sound, for me, is to insert one into my system or hear it on a familiar system.  Internet or magazine reviews provide and invaluable source to vet a piece of equipment. 

My wish was for all participants to arrive safely and have fun listening to some great music, perform an evaluation and enjoy the company of others.




Round 1 Overall Scores:

Lite Audio D60 = +45  Strengths were in areas of Clarity – Transparency - Resolution, Air – Spacious- Open, and Soundstage Recreation.

Bel Canto DAC2 = +34  Strengths were in the areas of Clarity – Transparency - Resolution, Sweet Sund and Ear – Mind – Body – Reaction.

PS Audio DAC3 = +34  Strengths were in the areas of Clarity – Transparency - Resolution, Air – Spacious- Open, Sweet Sound, Ear – Mind – Body Reaction.

Benchmark DAC1 = +21  Strengths were in the areas of Air – Spacious- Open, Bass and Bass Response.

Mytek = +9  Strengths were in the areas of Clarity – Transparency – Resolution, Bass Response, Ear – Mind – Body Reaction.  To be frank, I rated this one equal to the Benchmark.





Round 2 Overall Scores:

Constantine = +4  Strenghts were in Soundstage Recreation and Clarity – Transparency - Resolution

City Pulse DA2.0e 2 = 0

Citypulse DA7.2x 2 = 0

SoundPro 707 = -9  Shortcomings were basically in all areas but mostly in Sweet Sound and Ear – Mind – Body Reaction.  No one liked this unit.


This round was very difficult to separate the Control from the DAC (except for the 707).  If someone had a universal player like an OPPO and wanted to see if a DAC would upgrade the overall sound in their system, Round 2 proved you can do it for under $500.  With some inexpensive DIY moding, one could probably go toe-to-toe with any of Round 1 contestants

Especially in Round 1, the differences between the DAC’s were pretty subtle (aka detectable only by deranged audio chuds, which none of us are LOL) and just a matter of overall tonal "flavoring"...and in some cases the physical appearance of the unit (that is why it is a good thing to have a blind test).

The scores respresent the summed total of the 6 people's scores. Since there were 7 categories ranging from -5 to +5, then each scorer could give the DAC overall a +/-35. So, if someone loved a DAC, and gave it 5's throughout, the score would be a +35. Then, if everyone had given the DAC +5's throughout, then multiply the +35 by 6 (for the number of people) and you would get 210. Therefore, the total score for any DAC could have been between -210 and +210.   Therefore, even a summed score of +45 for a DAC means that it is not that different than the Rega.

If you have any specific questions, there were three other AC members at the G2G who will gladly assist me in answering them.

OBTW, the Food (biased opinion) = 1000 points, off the charts in every sense you can thing off. 

After everyone left, I moved the Zu Druid's downstairs to determine if a change in speakers would cause one (me and my wife) to hear the differences in DAC’s come through more than the Swan’s…nope, same results.  Kenny, even with the Vandy Sub and a different room, the Druid's sounded about the same and Gina’s comment about them – unchanged. 

« Last Edit: 5 Mar 2008, 07:24 pm by laserman »

JJK

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Re: DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III
« Reply #19 on: 4 Mar 2008, 07:20 pm »
Laserman,

Thanks for posting the resuls of the DAC shoot-out.  I think that the way you evaluated the DACs was spot on.

I agree with you that the differences between most DACs is very subtle. I have been comparing a Benchmark DAC1, PS Audio Link III and the DAC in my Aragon StageOne pre/pro. The differences are minor. However, I did notice that both the DAC1 and the Link III produce better bass than the StageOne. Next I will be evaluating the Liteaudio D60 and a TADAC DAC.