[ufokillerz]

So out of curiosity, for ls6/ls9 owners, how many people have upgraded or gone a different path, if so what did you get and why?

I only recently got my ls6 speakers, but they might be incompatible with my speaker placement/room, and wanted to hear what people have been upgrading or going to. I am still in the process of tweaking everything and seeing if i can make it work, but wanted to hear what others might have upgraded to.

[PhenomeNhan]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.  I have a pair of LS6s, and have been enjoying them for several years now.  I know a guy who upgraded to these, but they do cost a few hundreds dollars more :

http://www.thesoundstation.com/pages/montana_kas2

[Hugh]

Why do you think they are incompatible?

I may have missed something regarding this but LS6 is mush easier to use in a typical residential room than LS9.

So out of curiosity, for ls6/ls9 owners, how many people have upgraded or gone a different path, if so what did you get and why?

I only recently got my ls6 speakers, but they might be incompatible with my speaker placement/room, and wanted to hear what people have been upgrading or going to. I am still in the process of tweaking everything and seeing if i can make it work, but wanted to hear what others might have upgraded to.

[ufokillerz]

Why do you think they are incompatible?

I may have missed something regarding this but LS6 is mush easier to use in a typical residential room than LS9.

i can't get them far away enough from the wall, danny gave me a suggestion which i hope will work!

[TRADERXFAN]

What kind of issue are you having?
Also, you might want to post in the acoustics area for advice...

[ufokillerz]

What kind of issue are you having?
Also, you might want to post in the acoustics area for advice...

overwhelming bass/drone in some of my music, even at the smallest room setting, danny has suggested something that would drop it even lower, i hope it works! i can only manage 12.5" away from a acoustic panel, which sticks out 3.5" off the wall. so about 16" away from the wall if i removed the acoustic panel.

might be a room mode problem, will definitely play around with these for a while before i consider anything.

[Tyson]

It's most likely a room mode.  Get a good mic (like the Dayton USB mic), and a free program like HolmImpulse and figure out exactly where you are getting bass reinforcement.  From there you have a few options.  If it's below 100hz, then you can build 2 or 3 subs and disperse them throughout the room to cancel out those reinforcements.  Or, you can get an electronic EQ and simply EQ the modes out of your main speaker output.  Or you could contact GIK Acoustics and have them build you a bass trap that is tuned to the problem frequencies in your room.  Or, you could get rid of box speakers entirely and build/buy a pair of Open Baffle speakers.  All are viable options.

[ufokillerz]

It's most likely a room mode.  Get a good mic (like the Dayton USB mic), and a free program like HolmImpulse and figure out exactly where you are getting bass reinforcement.  From there you have a few options.  If it's below 100hz, then you can build 2 or 3 subs and disperse them throughout the room to cancel out those reinforcements.  Or, you can get an electronic EQ and simply EQ the modes out of your main speaker output.  Or you could contact GIK Acoustics and have them build you a bass trap that is tuned to the problem frequencies in your room.  Or, you could get rid of box speakers entirely and build/buy a pair of Open Baffle speakers.  All are viable options.

thanks for the suggestions, guess it is time to hook up my dayton omni mic  that i have not unboxed yet.
i do have 2 subs in the room, danley dts-10 subs, that might or might not be cancelling out some of the bass.

[Tyson]

Try putting one sub on a side wall and one on the rear wall.  Even try elevating one sub a few feet off the floor.  Personally, I tried a bunch of stuff in my room over several years and ended up going OB because I could never get box speakers to distribute bass evenly in my room, no matter what I tried. 

[S Clark]

overwhelming bass/drone in some of my music, even at the smallest room setting, danny has suggested something that would drop it even lower, i hope it works! i can only manage 12.5" away from a acoustic panel, which sticks out 3.5" off the wall. so about 16" away from the wall if i removed the acoustic panel.

might be a room mode problem, will definitely play around with these for a while before i consider anything.

You might vary the speaker and listener placement. I've struggled with a 120Hz resonance with my LS9's for quite a while.... until I moved the speakers considerably closer to the wall.  I had pulled them out too far into a larger room. 

[kingdeezie]

Unless you are going to use some active bass management system, like an active crossover, you need to treat the living hell out of your room with bass traps with these speakers.

I have an 18x12 room, and I think I am on the verge of a breakthrough. After some reconfiguration, I had a left over bass trap. I stuck it behind the speakers, on the side wall, and the difference was HUGE!   

I ordered six more bass traps to fit the space. I already have around 20 to begin with. They are full range man, and they put out a lot of bass energy that needs to be tamed.

[SoCalWJS]

As others have said, it sounds like you need to work on placement a bit, get some room treatments, and look into subwoofer options. Bass traps are probably your best bang for the buck unless you have unlimited speaker placement options.

I have LS-6es, but also purchased Super V's. Each speaker has it's strengths, but I'm listening to the Super V's exclusively at this point. OB is starting to convince me - I love the depth of the imaging. The bottom end of the OB Servo's????? 

I do miss the speed of the LS-6es though.

[mcallister]

I recently sold my 3 LS9s and replaced them with 3 Danley SH100Bs and they are active. I loved the 9s but couldn't get them to work in my smaller room. The Danleys sound amazing.

[Jerrin]

I'm currently upgrading a pair of my 9's to a full Duelund external crossover.    As far as new speakers go, I'm thinking about upgrading to Danny's Super 7 when we move.   

The LS series are really good at everything, especially HT, but I think the 7's will be perfect for my musical preferences.

[mojave]

I recently sold my 3 LS9s and replaced them with 3 Danley SH100Bs and they are active. I loved the 9s but couldn't get them to work in my smaller room. The Danleys sound amazing.

I have to get over to Ryan's house soon and see/hear those 9s. I was wondering if you had bought something else yet.

[neekomax]

overwhelming bass/drone in some of my music, even at the smallest room setting, danny has suggested something that would drop it even lower, i hope it works! i can only manage 12.5" away from a acoustic panel, which sticks out 3.5" off the wall. so about 16" away from the wall if i removed the acoustic panel.

might be a room mode problem, will definitely play around with these for a while before i consider anything.

Instead of treating your room and *hoping* that you flatten out your in-room bass response, might I suggest trying the DSPEaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core? I just started using one in my small room, and it's really working for me. I like it because, even after correction, I can add/subtract bass (and treble) from my room on the fly, depending on the music, listening level, mood, etc. I can even hit 'bypass' on the remote if I want my old 'boom-boom' back  . Plus- bonus! - it's a really good hi-res DAC and is super flexible with regard to where and how you want to use it in your system (analog, digital, DAC, preamp, etc.). Here's a before/after plot of my in-room response below 250 Hz (took 5 minutes to calibrate) to give you a sense of what it does (the dip at 80 Hz is a cancellation null that will probably require another sub to fill):



Pretty cool...

[Danny Richie]

Those devices are really neat, but they only work for one spot in the room. Move your mic over and you'll have to start all over again. And most don't realize that you have to correct for one speaker at a time. When both speakers are played at once with the mono test tones then you wind up correcting for cancellations and peaks that are actually caused by the time arrival effects of the two speakers and not the room. Then those effects go away with non-mono signals.

You also can't really fix a wall reflection by turning it down in that area where it has increase amplitude. The reflection is still there. And your adjustments have shifted the sound stage artificially. The time delay from the reflection is thus un-effected.

And while the DAC's in those devices are often capable of playing high res files they are often in entry level to mid-fi level DAC at best.

Corrections below 200Hz though do have their place and are very useful. If it is handled in the digital domain only as per each channel and an higher quality outboard DAC is used, then that is a different story.

There is no substitute for good room treatment. 

[neekomax]

Those devices are really neat, but they only work for one spot in the room. Move your mic over and you'll have to start all over again. And most don't realize that you have to correct for one speaker at a time. When both speakers are played at once with the mono test tones then you wind up correcting for cancellations and peaks that are actually caused by the time arrival effects of the two speakers and not the room. Then those effects go away with non-mono signals.

You also can't really fix a wall reflection by turning it down in that area where it has increase amplitude. The reflection is still there. And your adjustments have shifted the sound stage artificially. The time delay from the reflection is thus un-effected.

And while the DAC's in those devices are often capable of playing high res files they are often in entry level to mid-fi level DAC at best.

Corrections below 200Hz though do have their place and are very useful. If it is handled in the digital domain only as per each channel and an higher quality outboard DAC is used, then that is a different story.

There is no substitute for good room treatment.

Hmm, interesting points. Not sure I fully understand everything that was said, though 

I only sit in one spot when listening to music.

 I'll take these to the DSPeaker thread and see if I can get further clarification. I believe that you can correct each speaker individually, as you recommend. I also believe that this unit has been well received with regard to the quality of the DAC, but hey, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. Sounds dern tootin' to me.

Thanks for the feedback.

[nickd]

Danny,

Don't dismiss that little DSPeaker DAC / Sub EQ so quickly. Its not perfect, but it does amazing things on bass tuning and is easy to measure with and use to diagnose problems.  Sounds better than it should for the price too. Remote control volume for your servo subs, priclesss.

It's not the answer for a complete high end system DAC preamp for most poeple, but it will hold it's own against most things in its price range for sound and features. I do wish it came with a Coax digital input. The glass fiber digital input connection may be the weak link. Although the engineers always tell me it sounds equal to everything else and that bits are bits.

You should call Steve and try one out. You will become a fan. I played with one (with Steve's help) on the Super V and was very impressed. the difference between this small unit and a 20K front end rig was much smaller than it should have been. The price is reasonable and you actually get a lot technology and fun for your money. It can really help in a tough room.

[Danny Richie]

I am all for using tools like that below 200Hz. In those ranges the wavelengths start getting pretty long and omni directional. Si it is easy to correct without causing other problems.

When I was assisting a client in Atlanta at the Axpona show we had an upper bass bump in the 175Hz range in their room. So we used the digital amplitude correction built into the features of Pure Music (software running on the Mac Mini) to knock it down a little and balance the response. But we were still using a top level DAC from db Audio Labs.

Correction in the upper ranges in reality just doesn't work. The corrections are very placement dependent and only effect amplitude levels. It doesn't address the problem if time arrival reflections and their effect on the sound stage and imaging. A side wall reflection is still a side wall reflection. Turning down the levels in that area doesn't make it go away.

And there is no way I can go backwards to fiber optic and coaxial SPDIF inputs. Once you've gone I2S direct to a top level DAC using a Mac Mini modified like the one I am using there is no turning back. That would almost be like trying to convince someone to go back to cassette players because a new one that just came out is really good.

But if the rest of your system is at the level of that device then you really have nothing to loose. I mean no offense, but in my system it would be a bottleneck.