Where do cartridges go to die?

Alan1572 · « **on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:14 pm »

What happens when they are used well beyond there normal lifespan, do they just stop working, wear away or does the sound just deteriorate?

/mp · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 06:47 pm »

Badly worn styli sound distorted.

Alan1572 · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 08:18 pm »

I think I need a new one then

threadkiller · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 12:21 am »

They go to the back of your junk drawer...

Seriously, it gives one a moment to reflect...
Why do some people never go upscale and get a really good cartridge?
I'm talking one that can be rebuilt?
I get serious demerits from some - even in my own Dynavector camp- who deride me for having their top end cartridges..so I say, I started out years ago with a Ruby, a 23r something or other, after my initial Shures and Grados et al. As the gear improved, so did the cartridges. Rubbish in rubbish out. I took the Brits mantra hook line and sinker. Plus, when you heard it, you knew it to be true. No snake oil. So when you reach a certain point in the Dynavector chain, I think at the Te Kaitora level, you can have your cart totally rebuilt- back in Japan, not by the tip glueing guy here in the States- you know the one. THAT is NOT a Dynavector. So my meandering point is there's real value in having a great cartridge. I'm still confused by those that worry/ boast about speakers/amps etc and still use the worst cartridges.
Sorry, Alan, didn't mean to soapbox here. I just had a conversation with a friend who's in the scenario I mention above. You had a good cartridge, btw. Hope you keep your standards high. (Higher than my friends, anyway!)
Cheers

WireNut · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 12:30 am »

moved

G Georgopoulos · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 12:47 am »

it's not just cartridges that ware out,there is the records as well..

rob400 · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 10:24 am »

Quote from: threadkiller on 7 Jan 2015, 12:21 am

I get serious demerits from some - even in my own Dynavector camp- who deride me for having their top end cartridges..so I say, I started out years ago with a Ruby, a 23r something or other, after my initial Shures and Grados et al. As the gear improved, so did the cartridges. Rubbish in rubbish out. I took the Brits mantra hook line and sinker. Plus, when you heard it, you knew it to be true. No snake oil. So when you reach a certain point in the Dynavector chain, I think at the Te Kaitora level, you can have your cart totally rebuilt- back in Japan, not by the tip glueing guy here in the States- you know the one. THAT is NOT a Dynavector. So my meandering point is there's real value in having a great cartridge. I'm still confused by those that worry/ boast about speakers/amps etc and still use the worst cartridges.
Cheers

I agree and following the garbage in garbage out mantra (that's how we Brit's refer to it Chaz) has served me and a myriad of others over here across the pond well. The relevant aspect to this Well Tempered circle is just how good the Amadeus and Versalex can sound with a high end cartridge bolted on. I have been using a DV XV1s and the improvement from XX2 was clearly heard so the skies the limit with regard to the level of cartridge that our decks can utilise. Quite incredible if we consider the relative low cost of our decks....

Alan1572 · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 11:35 am »

I really doubt I can buy better than the 17d3 due to the funds needed, can I get the 17d3 rebuilt? And your soapbox rant.....it's just what I like to hear

rob400 · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 03:06 pm »

No you can't have it rebuilt as Threadkiller pointed out. Only the $3k plus DV's carry that option. You should get a small trade in on your old 17D3 for a new one though. The XX2 mk2 is a bargain if you can stretch to it.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: rob400 on 7 Jan 2015, 03:06 pm

No you can't have it rebuilt as Threadkiller pointed out. Only the $3k plus DV's carry that option. You should get a small trade in on your old 17D3 for a new one though. The 20XL2 is a bargain if you can stretch to it.

Are you saying that Soundsmith can't retip this specific cartridge? Why not?

And I don't see where threadkiller said it's not doable. As I read it, he says he doesn't like the result...that it is not an "authentic" dyna. His opinion. Many others disagree with his snub of the SS retip.

I own 2 cartridges -- both the stock and SS level 2 retip version of each -- and to my ear both retips sound at least as good as the stock. Probably better. One is a Dynavector.

Usual caveat, YMMV.

rob400 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 06:44 pm »

I can advise that cartridge wear is not exclusive to the diamond. The cartridge suspension degrades with age also so why would anyone with an ageing budget cartridge like a 17D3 go for anything other than a trade in with discount?

BobRex · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: rob400 on 7 Jan 2015, 06:44 pm

I can advise that cartridge wear is not exclusive to the diamond. The cartridge suspension degrades with age also so why would anyone with an ageing budget cartridge like a 17D3 go for anything other than a trade in with discount?

Ah, the wonder of inflation. Does anybody else remember when the 17D was Dynavector's best cartridge, and contrary to being a "budget" cartridge, was one of the more expensive offerings of the time?

sunnydaze · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: rob400 on 7 Jan 2015, 06:44 pm

I can advise that cartridge wear is not exclusive to the diamond. The cartridge suspension degrades with age also so why would anyone with an ageing budget cartridge like a 17D3 go for anything other than a trade in with discount?

Agreed. But this diagnosis can be made by the expert upon inspection. Soundsmith has a great reputation for honesty and reliability. He will give the straight poop.

If suspension is OK, do the retip. If not, trade-in for new. What's the downside to at least looking into the cheaper retip option?

rob400 · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:23 pm »

Fair play. I live in the UK so Soundsmith isn't a company that I've heard of. Similar companies here haven't got the best reputations for success. Good luck to the OP whatever he decides to do....

sunnydaze · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:34 pm »

Thanks for the clarification.

Soundsmith does not need to deceive to generate business. Matter of fact, the main complaint around these parts is the lengthy turnaround time, indicating he has plenty of business already......almost more than he can handle. A search of audio boards, and the internet in general, will reveal all the very positive comments on his work.

threadkiller · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 07:58 pm »

Old ground here, I only report what I and my colleagues hear...No one needs to pay attention to me and my rambles. You do as you like.
Dear Alan, if you can only stretch for the 17, then go for it.
Yes, I do remember when it was the top dog. It's said about the 17 by those in the know that when it's dialed in precisely, and all else is to its liking, that it can shine with great character., Kind of like the Denon 103. But, the caveat is it must be setup properly- probably the most notorious Dynavector in that regard. I also love the XX2- hear it all the time at friends. Yet Alan, don't blow your budget. Even a new 20x is great..
Just don't buy either and then get on here blabbing about adding a sub or spending hundreds on NOS tubes or the latest digital... Then you'll get short thrift from me... Lol
Why not improve your source, your first connection point to the music?

Alan1572 · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 08:38 pm »

I will indeed spend as much as possible in the fix but where to stop, I know this from spending 20k on naim equipment over many years of upgrades, I was on the phone earlier to the needle clinic who advised me of one of their most popular upgrades was to buy an old denon 103 and spend anything upto £1200 rebuilding it although they did give me many other options, an offer of £850 for my well tempered is also an option

rob400 · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: Alan1572 on 7 Jan 2015, 08:38 pm

an offer of £850 for my well tempered is also an option

Not if it's an Amadeus Alan. P.S I owned a similar Naim system with an LP12 before moving over to a Well Tempered Versalex ,Dynavector amps and Shahinan speakers. No regrets.

threadkiller · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jan 2015, 08:54 pm »

Alan,
Real quick, if I might ask, what speakers are you using with your Naim? And what level Naim do you have?

I'll tell you, it's a rebuilders market, since no one can keep cartridges in stock these days. Can you imagine? The new revival of vinyl has left a shortage of cartridges in its wake....

Alan1572 · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jan 2015, 09:54 am »

The speakers are jmlab 915 and I no longer have the naim system due to it being ransacked in a home burglary but it was
Cdx2 with power supply
82
2 x 135
2 x hicap
All on hutter rack (swapped from a naim fraim)
I was very proud of my system, I know naim isn't everyone's cup of tea but we loved it, we never did get around to replacing it